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Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 582	Posted - 2014.09.25 04:24:00 - [1] - Quote Last domination match I was in.. 4 snipers combine to go 54/0 all from the safety of the redline. We were cloned in an otherwise very close battle completely ruined by snipers. This has happened several times today. CCP rattiti, you said you did not like ADS gameplay because you basically got to kill without worry, redline snipers are exactly that. The only counter to a redline sniper is another sniper, or a suicide dropship hotdrop. Oh, and because of the range nerf, countering a redline sniper requires a sniper to counter-snipe from the middle of the battlefield. This means in that the person counter-sniping has to deal with the snipers AND infantry AND vehicles. This is EXACTLY the same as how AV vs ADS was before. I actually really like the changes to snipers, but please for the sake of being consistent fix this type of risk-free gameplay. Either ensure that all points are at least 500 m away from the redline, or don't allow snipers to fire out of the redline. I prefer the 500 M redline option though just in case one team redlines another team. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1305	Posted - 2014.09.25 04:27:00 - [2] - Quote lol When I warned that the range nerf would hurt legit snipers without hurting redline snipers, I didn't consider that countersniping a redline sniper would often mean making oneself a sitting duck from a terrible sniping vantage point. That's hilarious! However, the only counter to a sniper isn't a sniper or suicide derpship. There's also forge guns, rail tanks, and rail or missile turrets on LAVs, not to mention assault dropships. They're just as killable as they were before - but now they can OHK you on a headshot reliably. Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 387	Posted - 2014.09.25 04:40:00 - [3] - Quote Proof that people will b*tch about snipers no matter what. THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 582	Posted - 2014.09.25 04:46:00 - [4] - Quote Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote: Proof that people will btch about snipers no matter what. So we are not going to discuss how current sniping = prior to delta ADS in the same EXACT manner? I have absolutely zero problem with snipers getting 1HK, I do have a HUGE problem with them doing it ON THE POINT from the redline. It is about as risk free as it gets. Or were you just going to complain about complainging.. thereby doing the same exact thing you are complaining about, just sounding incredibly dumb while doing it? Right-wing Extremist wrote:* lol When I warned that the range nerf would hurt legit snipers without hurting redline snipers, I didn't consider that countersniping a redline sniper would often mean making oneself a sitting duck from a terrible sniping vantage point. That's hilarious! However, the only counter to a sniper isn't a sniper or suicide derpship. There's also forge guns, rail tanks, and rail or missile turrets on LAVs, not to mention assault dropships. They're just as killable as they were before - but now they can OHK you on a headshot reliably. Redline snipers have never been easy to kill, but before they were mostly harmless. Now redline snipers 1hk every suit, and the counters are all vastly more risky than the activity. That was the big problem with ADS, that is the big problem with redline snipers. Snipers are only really an issue when the points are within 500m of the redline, like most points in skirmish, and many points in domination. I have no problem at all with snipers in ambush, there is no redline. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 619	Posted - 2014.09.25 04:54:00 - [5] - Quote Saw this coming. With 150m more range than any other weapon redline snipers will rarely fear redline counter snipers now, and besides still being out of range forge gunners will just be snipe fodder while tanks/ads won't even bother with them since they cant be killed by them and will do more good focusing on the hotspots. Sniping is a problem that will will never be solved or balanced. I'd rather fight a proto cloaked scout with a basic logi than deal with a redline sniper. Lonewolf till I die
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 620	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:01:00 - [6] - Quote Here's an idea... Hey ads pilots wipe them tears and go kill all those snipers. I swear I saw thale's on the kill feed. Lonewolf till I die
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 582	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:08:00 - [7] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Saw this coming. With 150m more range than any other weapon redline snipers will rarely fear redline counter snipers now, and besides still being out of range forge gunners will just be snipe fodder while tanks/ads won't even bother with them since they cant be killed by them and will do more good focusing on the hotspots. Sniping is a problem that will will never be solved or balanced. I'd rather fight a proto cloaked scout with a basic logi than deal with a redline sniper. Here is a btter question, and probably a good original topic if someone wants to ask it. Does anyone have a problem with snipers in ambush? I would bet that the answer is no. If that is the case, then you know exactly what the problem is, and the problem is the redline, not snipers. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 620	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:12:00 - [8] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Saw this coming. With 150m more range than any other weapon redline snipers will rarely fear redline counter snipers now, and besides still being out of range forge gunners will just be snipe fodder while tanks/ads won't even bother with them since they cant be killed by them and will do more good focusing on the hotspots. Sniping is a problem that will will never be solved or balanced. I'd rather fight a proto cloaked scout with a basic logi than deal with a redline sniper. Here is a btter question, and probably a good original topic if someone wants to ask it. Does anyone have a problem with snipers in ambush? I would bet that the answer is no. If that is the case, then you know exactly what the problem is, and the problem is the redline, not snipers. I made a impossible fix suggestion once... Cut damage going in and out of the redline by 50% making staying there lame promoting getting out and hunting the enemy redline dangerous to the point of stupied. And I've never seen snipers in ambush.G£în+Å Lonewolf till I die
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3694	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:17:00 - [9] - Quote The reticle is nice. The DMG to headshots is wonderful. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1018	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:28:00 - [10] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Last domination match I was in.. 4 snipers combine to go 54/0 all from the safety of the redline. We were cloned in an otherwise very close battle completely ruined by snipers. This has happened several times today. CCP rattiti, you said you did not like ADS gameplay because you basically got to kill without worry, redline snipers are exactly that. The only counter to a redline sniper is another sniper, or a suicide dropship hotdrop. Oh, and because of the range nerf, countering a redline sniper requires a sniper to counter-snipe from the middle of the battlefield. This means in that the person counter-sniping has to deal with the snipers AND infantry AND vehicles. This is EXACTLY the same as how AV vs ADS was before. I actually really like the changes to snipers, but please for the sake of being consistent fix this type of risk-free gameplay. Either ensure that all points are at least 500 m away from the redline, or don't allow snipers to fire out of the redline. I prefer the 500 M redline option though just in case one team redlines another team. The numbers. They are physically impossible. 200 clones for the entire team - 54x4 = - 16 clones Also factor in the kills made by other players... that's about 90 or so... so -106, then factor up for a few injector rezzes... high values being about 30 per game... still short -76 suits. Conclusion, probably just complaining about snipers AGAIN because "Sniper" like all those other times. You know the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf? Yeah. Kind of time for that to hit home on the complainers. If you really don't like what's happened, you have no-one but YOURSELF to blame. Remember who was the "champion" of this change. Who wanted this change. Now who must endure this change. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 41	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:37:00 - [11] - Quote Maybe add a score penalty to red line kills kind of like the ff penalty in fw. -50 dkp New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Alejandro Guerra B Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:42:00 - [12] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Last domination match I was in.. 4 snipers combine to go 54/0 all from the safety of the redline. We were cloned in an otherwise very close battle completely ruined by snipers. This has happened several times today. CCP rattiti, you said you did not like ADS gameplay because you basically got to kill without worry, redline snipers are exactly that. The only counter to a redline sniper is another sniper, or a suicide dropship hotdrop. Oh, and because of the range nerf, countering a redline sniper requires a sniper to counter-snipe from the middle of the battlefield. This means in that the person counter-sniping has to deal with the snipers AND infantry AND vehicles. This is EXACTLY the same as how AV vs ADS was before. I actually really like the changes to snipers, but please for the sake of being consistent fix this type of risk-free gameplay. Either ensure that all points are at least 500 m away from the redline, or don't allow snipers to fire out of the redline. I prefer the 500 M redline option though just in case one team redlines another team. you're wrong and I'm sniper played all day today and these modifications leave obsolete sniper, the reason is simple, the distance is very short, and everyone sees you, and you die by rookies, besides these at ground and you can not see anyone that hinders all the sniper to death, while this is not correct I leave Dust and therefore not buy again auron.
Eruditus 920 Prodigy Ops 480	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:48:00 - [13] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Saw this coming. With 150m more range than any other weapon redline snipers will rarely fear redline counter snipers now, and besides still being out of range forge gunners will just be snipe fodder while tanks/ads won't even bother with them since they cant be killed by them and will do more good focusing on the hotspots. Sniping is a problem that will will never be solved or balanced. I'd rather fight a proto cloaked scout with a basic logi than deal with a redline sniper. Here is a btter question, and probably a good original topic if someone wants to ask it. Does anyone have a problem with snipers in ambush? I would bet that the answer is no. If that is the case, then you know exactly what the problem is, and the problem is the redline, not snipers. You don't see snipers in Ambush....curious, I wonder why? Wisdom is what you gain after you need it.
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 623	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:51:00 - [14] - Quote Alejandro Guerra B wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Last domination match I was in.. 4 snipers combine to go 54/0 all from the safety of the redline. We were cloned in an otherwise very close battle completely ruined by snipers. This has happened several times today. CCP rattiti, you said you did not like ADS gameplay because you basically got to kill without worry, redline snipers are exactly that. The only counter to a redline sniper is another sniper, or a suicide dropship hotdrop. Oh, and because of the range nerf, countering a redline sniper requires a sniper to counter-snipe from the middle of the battlefield. This means in that the person counter-sniping has to deal with the snipers AND infantry AND vehicles. This is EXACTLY the same as how AV vs ADS was before. I actually really like the changes to snipers, but please for the sake of being consistent fix this type of risk-free gameplay. Either ensure that all points are at least 500 m away from the redline, or don't allow snipers to fire out of the redline. I prefer the 500 M redline option though just in case one team redlines another team. you're wrong and I'm sniper played all day today and these modifications leave obsolete sniper, the reason is simple, the distance is very short, and everyone sees you, and you die by rookies, besides these at ground and you can not see anyone that hinders all the sniper to death, while this is not correct I leave Dust and therefore not buy again auron. Next day replaced by non sniper... Game improves for all G£în+Å Lonewolf till I die
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 623	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:56:00 - [15] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Saw this coming. With 150m more range than any other weapon redline snipers will rarely fear redline counter snipers now, and besides still being out of range forge gunners will just be snipe fodder while tanks/ads won't even bother with them since they cant be killed by them and will do more good focusing on the hotspots. Sniping is a problem that will will never be solved or balanced. I'd rather fight a proto cloaked scout with a basic logi than deal with a redline sniper. Here is a btter question, and probably a good original topic if someone wants to ask it. Does anyone have a problem with snipers in ambush? I would bet that the answer is no. If that is the case, then you know exactly what the problem is, and the problem is the redline, not snipers. You don't see snipers in Ambush....curious, I wonder why? No redline, no MCC, if it's not ambush oms they can't call in vehicals to get to high ground...only good thing about ambush Lonewolf till I die
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17839	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:56:00 - [16] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: The numbers. They are physically impossible. 200 clones for the entire team - 54x4 = - 16 clones Also factor in the kills made by other players... that's about 90 or so... so -106, then factor up for a few injector rezzes... high values being about 30 per game... still short -76 suits. Crimson Cerberes wrote: Last domination match I was in.. 4 snipers combine to go 54/0 all from the safety of the redline. We were cloned in an otherwise very close battle completely ruined by snipers. This has happened several times today. Highlighted the part you didn't read. The forums have ruined me.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 584	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:56:00 - [17] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Last domination match I was in.. 4 snipers combine to go 54/0 all from the safety of the redline. We were cloned in an otherwise very close battle completely ruined by snipers. This has happened several times today. CCP rattiti, you said you did not like ADS gameplay because you basically got to kill without worry, redline snipers are exactly that. The only counter to a redline sniper is another sniper, or a suicide dropship hotdrop. Oh, and because of the range nerf, countering a redline sniper requires a sniper to counter-snipe from the middle of the battlefield. This means in that the person counter-sniping has to deal with the snipers AND infantry AND vehicles. This is EXACTLY the same as how AV vs ADS was before. I actually really like the changes to snipers, but please for the sake of being consistent fix this type of risk-free gameplay. Either ensure that all points are at least 500 m away from the redline, or don't allow snipers to fire out of the redline. I prefer the 500 M redline option though just in case one team redlines another team. The numbers. They are physically impossible. 200 clones for the entire team - 54x4 = - 16 clones Also factor in the kills made by other players... that's about 90 or so... so -106, then factor up for a few injector rezzes... high values being about 30 per game... still short -76 suits. Conclusion, probably just complaining about snipers AGAIN because "Sniper" like all those other times. You know the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf? Yeah. Kind of time for that to hit home on the complainers. If you really don't like what's happened, you have no-one but YOURSELF to blame. Remember who was the "champion" of this change. Who wanted this change. Now who must endure this change. so there is an important word in there, COMBINE Tell me, what does combine mean to you? To me it means that cumulatively they got 54/0. To put it another way, all four snipers added up their individual kills to get 54, between them they had zero deaths. Next time you are going to write a long post while being a condescending jerk. try to make sure you read the original post. EDIT: thanks poster above. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 258	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:59:00 - [18] - Quote Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote: Proof that people will b*tch about snipers no matter what. give a clone a stick he will complain for a month, give a clone a sniper rifle & they will never shut the duck up about it. Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1536	Posted - 2014.09.25 06:10:00 - [19] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Saw this coming. With 150m more range than any other weapon redline snipers will rarely fear redline counter snipers now, and besides still being out of range forge gunners will just be snipe fodder while tanks/ads won't even bother with them since they cant be killed by them and will do more good focusing on the hotspots. Sniping is a problem that will will never be solved or balanced. I'd rather fight a proto cloaked scout with a basic logi than deal with a redline sniper. Here is a btter question, and probably a good original topic if someone wants to ask it. Does anyone have a problem with snipers in ambush? I would bet that the answer is no. If that is the case, then you know exactly what the problem is, and the problem is the redline, not snipers. Hardly anyone snipes in ambush. Those that do are only slightly annoying because it's too much of a hassle to go after them in such a short match. Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: The numbers. They are physically impossible. 200 clones for the entire team - 54x4 = - 16 clones Also factor in the kills made by other players... that's about 90 or so... so -106, then factor up for a few injector rezzes... high values being about 30 per game... still short -76 suits. Conclusion, probably just complaining about snipers AGAIN because "Sniper" like all those other times. You know the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf? Yeah. Kind of time for that to hit home on the complainers. If you really don't like what's happened, you have no-one but YOURSELF to blame. Remember who was the "champion" of this change. Who wanted this change. Now who must endure this change. You're kind of dense, aren't you? It's obvious he meant their combined score was 54/0 (I mean it's what he said) so their average was 13.5 kills each. Which to be honest isn't much to complain about other than the fact that they didn't die at least once. He has a point on the fact that in order to counter snipe redliners now you have to put yourself in the middle of the danger zone. Which is kind of bad now because that's where they'll be looking; whereas before they'd look closer to your redline for you which meant sniping further away from the redline in the danger zone was safer. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Savage Mangler Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 141	Posted - 2014.09.25 06:45:00 - [20] - Quote The Master Race wrote: Maybe add a score penalty to red line kills kind of like the ff penalty in fw. -50 dkp "Right side. Many Whelps...now handle it!" Damn you, I totally forgot about DKP..... -YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED- "Good, then they'll know who killed them." Salvation...through Annihilation
Mregomies Beer For Evil Mercs 279	Posted - 2014.09.25 06:50:00 - [21] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Saw this coming. With 150m more range than any other weapon redline snipers will rarely fear redline counter snipers now, and besides still being out of range forge gunners will just be snipe fodder while tanks/ads won't even bother with them since they cant be killed by them and will do more good focusing on the hotspots. Sniping is a problem that will will never be solved or balanced. I'd rather fight a proto cloaked scout with a basic logi than deal with a redline sniper. Here is a btter question, and probably a good original topic if someone wants to ask it. Does anyone have a problem with snipers in ambush? I would bet that the answer is no. If that is the case, then you know exactly what the problem is, and the problem is the redline, not snipers. I snipe in ambush... I find a rooftop and start dropping some reds Suomi, Finland, PERKELE! Logibro Logibro2
David Spd Caldari State 163	Posted - 2014.09.25 07:32:00 - [22] - Quote Seems to me the biggest issue with sniping is map design. It's simply too easy for snipers to perch on a structure somewhere or sit on a hill out in BFE. Couple of maps are notorious for that kind of stuff and CCP keeps tweaking the snipers, but the maps remain unchanged. Since CCP seems downright unwilling to make client-side changes I doubt people will ever be truly safe from "redline sniping". --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
Mregomies Beer For Evil Mercs 279	Posted - 2014.09.25 07:44:00 - [23] - Quote David Spd wrote: Seems to me the biggest issue with sniping is map design. It's simply too easy for snipers to perch on a structure somewhere or sit on a hill out in BFE. Couple of maps are notorious for that kind of stuff and CCP keeps tweaking the snipers, but the maps remain unchanged. Since CCP seems downright unwilling to make client-side changes I doubt people will ever be truly safe from "redline sniping". What the **** you want us to do with sniperrifle????? run in burnzone and try hipfire reds??? c'mon! it's LONG RANGE WEAPON and that is why snipers sits in "safe" place! I know all the jobs in the battle since I have all classes. use cover if you are assault/logi, use logibro if you are heavy, use cloak and dampers if you are scout and if you are sniper... countersnipe. It's quite easy now to countersnipe. Even those heavysnipers fall down with 1 headshot. I have damped ck.0 scout to countersnipe and I can sit middle of the fight and search those snipers sitting somewhere. So please, stop QQ and find your job and spot in the field. Suomi, Finland, PERKELE! Logibro Logibro2
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16671	Posted - 2014.09.25 07:46:00 - [24] - Quote I am pretty sure if CCP could change up the maps slightly (redraw redlines and move objectives) CCP would have done so by now. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 585	Posted - 2014.09.25 07:52:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am pretty sure if CCP could change up the maps slightly through hotfixing (redraw redlines and move objectives) CCP would have done so by now. if that is the case then sniper rifle range has to be reduced again. C'mon. Your entire reasoning for nerfing ADSes and railtanks is FULLY applicable to red-line snipers. Reducing railtanks to 300m brought the majority of them out of the redline, and if they still had a 400m range they would still be in there as well. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16672	Posted - 2014.09.25 07:56:00 - [26] - Quote because blow the 300 meter range the forge gun becomes the superior option and nerfing the forge gun any further mechancially to get rid of its advantage compromises their ability to av. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1259	Posted - 2014.09.25 08:25:00 - [27] - Quote Redline Snipers.... LMFAO With the changes there is only on time a redline sniper is a danger to the opposition, And that is when the opposition push into the enemy side of map... GOOD This makes redline snipers a threat to infantry zerging the redline.. GOOD I have been running a MinCommando to test it out and sniping is awesome TY Rattati! Snipers are now in a position where it's either find a risky vantage point, or camp and kill nothing. And as for Sniper Vs Sniper fights.. much <3.. they are now intense engagements as both Snipers can deal enough DMG to OHK headshot each other, rewards mobile sniping Some mercs really enjoy the challenge of sniping in the 100m-200m area the new changes make it viable to risk your ass doing so.. while removing the redline campers from 'most' games. Please do not judge balance by what you saw in Public fights One skilled proto sniper will go 50/0 Vs MLT grade opponents EZ. Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16672	Posted - 2014.09.25 08:33:00 - [28] - Quote I am more curious as to the effect of having snipers in PC matches though; they're a well undervalued role in organized team play so my other hope is they start to see more action in those higher organization fights. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES THE BONERBOMBS 35	Posted - 2014.09.25 08:34:00 - [29] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Last domination match I was in.. 4 snipers combine to go 54/0 all from the safety of the redline. We were cloned in an otherwise very close battle completely ruined by snipers. This has happened several times today. CCP rattiti, you said you did not like ADS gameplay because you basically got to kill without worry, redline snipers are exactly that. The only counter to a redline sniper is another sniper, or a suicide dropship hotdrop. Oh, and because of the range nerf, countering a redline sniper requires a sniper to counter-snipe from the middle of the battlefield. This means in that the person counter-sniping has to deal with the snipers AND infantry AND vehicles. This is EXACTLY the same as how AV vs ADS was before. I actually really like the changes to snipers, but please for the sake of being consistent fix this type of risk-free gameplay. Either ensure that all points are at least 500 m away from the redline, or don't allow snipers to fire out of the redline. I prefer the 500 M redline option though just in case one team redlines another team. Um really? All it takes is a madrugar railgun to take down garbage snipers. All they do is jack off in the redline the whole game. All I do is hunt their garbage asses down. I enjoy beverage I manage beverage But mostly enjoy beverage
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1019	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:34:00 - [30] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Saw this coming. With 150m more range than any other weapon redline snipers will rarely fear redline counter snipers now, and besides still being out of range forge gunners will just be snipe fodder while tanks/ads won't even bother with them since they cant be killed by them and will do more good focusing on the hotspots. Sniping is a problem that will will never be solved or balanced. I'd rather fight a proto cloaked scout with a basic logi than deal with a redline sniper. Here is a btter question, and probably a good original topic if someone wants to ask it. Does anyone have a problem with snipers in ambush? I would bet that the answer is no. If that is the case, then you know exactly what the problem is, and the problem is the redline, not snipers. You don't see snipers in Ambush....curious, I wonder why? Because you spawn within 300m of an enemy at all times? Kind of obvious... In order to use a sniper you must first outrange your target. Where would one shoot from? There are NO open venues for sniping because if you spawn, everyone can see you travel from spawn to another point. There is no aspect of surprise you could set up as well as the LOS in interrupted. Now, dumb people believe "redline" because it is their magical scapegoat. All their "ailments" for being completely unobservant they blame on their sacred "redline". Literally, you guys worship that thing. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 206	Posted - 2014.09.25 14:34:00 - [31] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Saw this coming. With 150m more range than any other weapon redline snipers will rarely fear redline counter snipers now, and besides still being out of range forge gunners will just be snipe fodder while tanks/ads won't even bother with them since they cant be killed by them and will do more good focusing on the hotspots. Sniping is a problem that will will never be solved or balanced. I'd rather fight a proto cloaked scout with a basic logi than deal with a redline sniper. Here is a btter question, and probably a good original topic if someone wants to ask it. Does anyone have a problem with snipers in ambush? I would bet that the answer is no. If that is the case, then you know exactly what the problem is, and the problem is the redline, not snipers. I made a impossible fix suggestion once... Cut damage going in and out of the redline by 50% making staying there lame promoting getting out and hunting the enemy redline dangerous to the point of stupied. And I've never seen snipers in ambush.G£în+Å Dude ******* hell yeah great suggestion remake the thread no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 206	Posted - 2014.09.25 14:37:00 - [32] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Redline Snipers.... LMFAO With the changes there is only on time a redline sniper is a danger to the opposition, And that is when the opposition push into the enemy side of map... GOOD This makes redline snipers a threat to infantry zerging the redline.. GOOD I have been running a MinCommando to test it out and sniping is awesome TY Rattati! Snipers are now in a position where it's either find a risky vantage point, or camp and kill nothing. And as for Sniper Vs Sniper fights.. much <3.. they are now intense engagements as both Snipers can deal enough DMG to OHK headshot each other, rewards mobile sniping Some mercs really enjoy the challenge of sniping in the 100m-200m area the new changes make it viable to risk your ass doing so.. while removing the redline campers from 'most' games. Please do not judge balance by what you saw in Public fights One skilled proto sniper will go 50/0 Vs MLT grade opponents EZ. I know this i get Except the Thales ..on man us peak I had a wonderful fight vs snipers yesterday it was brutal I was running lr the only guy that got me was 341 m away using a Thales ..The other snipers had to get closer and thus were either avoidable or kill able ... no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 208	Posted - 2014.09.25 14:40:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: because blow the 300 meter range the forge gun becomes the superior option and nerfing the forge gun any further mechanically to get rid of its advantage compromises their ability to av. There are other ways to reduce the range of the sniper rifle though without a straight up nerf to their absolute range. I am more than willing to advocate nerfing the zoom to help curb the desired effect. I know that the other options is to screw with the damage over its distance curve so that at max distances you're hitting around a hypothetical 50% less damage while the ideal ranges can be below 300 meters. This however will take time to evaluate what those fall off distances can be how steep the curve could be and the like. One thing I am noticing right now is the fewer number of heavy suits outside the calmando sniping and the number of mobile snipers increasing. It is also nice to see a smattering of all three rifles on the field so they seemed to be balanced against each other and should keep near to the current relative relationships with each other. How about makes dmg coming through the redline cut by 50% this forces them to leave or deal moronic dmg..howdidthattaste had that idea they can be as far away as they want but if they are somewhere an enemy can't reach ie they're redline dmg is lost no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1536	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:00:00 - [34] - Quote Alejandro Guerra B wrote: you're wrong and I'm sniper played all day today and these modifications leave obsolete sniper, the reason is simple, the distance is very short, and everyone sees you, and you die by rookies, besides these at ground and you can not see anyone that hinders all the sniper to death And now you know what it's like to be a target of a sniper. I have no empathy for you or any sniper. You've had a practically zero risk game to play for more than a year now, so you'll pardon me if I'm not crying over the fact that you're now vulnerable if you leave the redline,...like everything else in this game. If I were you, I'd be happy with the headshot bonuses and damage buffs and not QQing over having to leave the relative safety of the redline to get kills. Useless, cowardly snipers.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1536	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:03:00 - [35] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: How about makes dmg coming through the redline cut by 50% this forces them to leave or deal moronic dmg..howdidthattaste had that idea they can be as far away as they want but if they are somewhere an enemy can't reach ie they're redline dmg is lost +1000 Alas, that sounds like a client side change and I wonder out loud, if that's possible at this point.
John ShepardIII Murphys-Law 652	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:06:00 - [36] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Here's an idea... Hey ads pilots wipe them tears and go kill all those snipers. I swear I saw thale's on the kill feed. Lol since when could you just talk to all your blue berries and they do something that you ask??? That's right I didn't think so The True Shepard.
PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 10	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:07:00 - [37] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: because blow the 300 meter range the forge gun becomes the superior option and nerfing the forge gun any further mechanically to get rid of its advantage compromises their ability to av. There are other ways to reduce the range of the sniper rifle though without a straight up nerf to their absolute range. I am more than willing to advocate nerfing the zoom to help curb the desired effect. I know that the other options is to screw with the damage over its distance curve so that at max distances you're hitting around a hypothetical 50% less damage while the ideal ranges can be below 300 meters. This however will take time to evaluate what those fall off distances can be how steep the curve could be and the like. One thing I am noticing right now is the fewer number of heavy suits outside the calmando sniping and the number of mobile snipers increasing. It is also nice to see a smattering of all three rifles on the field so they seemed to be balanced against each other and should keep near to the current relative relationships with each other. How about makes dmg coming through the redline cut by 50% this forces them to leave or deal moronic dmg..howdidthattaste had that idea they can be as far away as they want but if they are somewhere an enemy can't reach ie they're redline dmg is lost Even then there will be something wrong with the snipers... Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Mex-0 420 smoke alot 60	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:11:00 - [38] - Quote It really doesn't matter for most infantry who can actually play well. If you're standing out in the open shooting without moving... well that's kind of your fault. I don't use OP weapons, I AM OP.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 488	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:30:00 - [39] - Quote oh my.. if only there had been some of the snipers in dust warning the community that reducing the range would make red line snipers safer because the counter sniper would be in more danger... oh.. wait. i did. so did symbiotic. and if only somebody had pointed out that those who snipe from the red line either do it for viewpoint or safety. or that the latter type would still play that way if they had a range of 100m.. as for 4 snipers going 54/0 i see no problem. that means on average they killed 13.5 people each and didn't get hunted. now if they were using the charge rifle that means they killed 13 people and assisted once, out of a possible 63 kills. so they could of missed, or had detection issues, or not had enough targets/time for their other 50 shots. I also said that it wouldn't matter what changes were made to snipers because players just hate snipers and believe that they shouldn't be a part of the game. well done community. you never fail to disappoint.
Mex-0 420 smoke alot 60	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:33:00 - [40] - Quote What about frontline sniping? maybe if the scope sway was decreased just a tiny bit, people would actually be able to quick scope... except then redliners would have easier kills. Dedicated Scout and Scrambler Rifle Specialist.
Vesta Opalus Kang Lo Holding 36	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:39:00 - [41] - Quote My opinion on the sniper changes: I think the changes were a step in the right direction, I like how each rifle now has its own role and is good in its own way. Sniper zooms still suck. I think they should increase charge and normal rifle zoom since these rifles are intended to be used at longer ranges. Its difficult to identify the head on enemy models from even 300m away, much less 450, the zoom is inadequate for half the weapons effective range. I dont think this patch is going to change the redline sniping "problem" in any real way (and I want to make it clear that I dont really think its a problem, there are plenty of ways to stop or avoid snipers in the redline to minimize their effectiveness). The root issue causing redline sniping is that snipers stay in the redline because its the only place they can actually use the sniper rifle without making themselves absurdly vulnerable. If you give someone a weapon where they have to stop, crouch, zoom in (reducing their field of view to a small fraction of what it normally is) and keep that position for ~3 seconds to stabilize the weapon, so that they can then shoot for 4+ seconds in the hopes of connecting with enough shots to kill someone, they are going to have to do all the above in a safe place where they can expect to not have a shotgun scout decloak 3 feet behind them and give them a bunch of additional buckshot sized assholes. Until the insane amount of risk the sniper firing routine exposes snipers to is reduced in some way, they are going to continue to mitigate that risk by staying in places where they wont get creamed the second they try to use their gun. This is why you almost always see snipers sitting on rooftops or in the redline. This isnt rocket surgery, its simple cause and effect. It doesnt matter what you do with the weapon ranges or making the redline somehow filter bullets, or whatever. The end result of the sniper mechanics as they are now is that they will be used in the redline or they will not be used at all.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16691	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:52:00 - [42] - Quote How about anything involving the redline changing parameters of the game are out of the question for the time being? CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 588	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:04:00 - [43] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: How about anything involving the redline changing parameters of the game are out of the question for the time being? Should be pretty simple then, find the map with the shortest distance between the redline and the points in domination, set MAX sniper range to the edge of the redline to the point. Done. Or if that is too short, Max 300m range with a fall-off. No one is sniping anyone from 300m with forge guns. Most I ever see is 200ms. Sure 300 may happen once in a blue moon, but from 300m you can't really even see a target with the forge. If forge sniping from 300 m is a problem, make the reticule no longer turn red for infantry for forge guns. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Michael Arck 5769	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:05:00 - [44] - Quote Saw a couple of snipers within the heat of battle taking up spots and hitting me. I had no complaints whatsoever. Do what you do snipers, just don't camp the redline all day. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
ak tak Gallactic Security Force 0	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:44:00 - [45] - Quote Mregomies wrote: David Spd wrote: Seems to me the biggest issue with sniping is map design. It's simply too easy for snipers to perch on a structure somewhere or sit on a hill out in BFE. Couple of maps are notorious for that kind of stuff and CCP keeps tweaking the snipers, but the maps remain unchanged. Since CCP seems downright unwilling to make client-side changes I doubt people will ever be truly safe from "redline sniping". What the ** you want us to do with sniperrifle????? run in burnzone and try hipfire reds??? c'mon! it's LONG RANGE WEAPON and that is why snipers sits in "safe" place! I know all the jobs in the battle since I have all classes. use cover if you are assault/logi, use logibro if you are heavy, use cloak and dampers if you are scout and if you are sniper... countersnipe. It's quite easy now to countersnipe. Even those heavysnipers fall down with 1 headshot. I have damped ck.0 scout to countersnipe and I can sit middle of the fight and search those snipers sitting somewhere. So please, stop QQ and find your job and spot in the field. This is so true ! I also have all kinds of classes but focus on my sniper because it's what i like to do and feel that a well placed sniper can help the team immensely not only with counter sniping and helping clear/hold objectives but a good sniper can help communicate an overview of the battlefield to a squad or the whole team improving both offense and defense ! The range nerfing hurts us plenty as we are now force to site on top of the reds and as above mentioned if I wanted to hipshot then I would deploy as assault ! These changes to sniper are such a load of crap, If you don't like snipers get a good one in your team and use him for what he/she is: A LETHAL LONG RANGE FING KILLING MACHINE THAT CAN VIEW THE WHOLE BATTLEFIELD AND PROTECT YOU A* FROM OTHER SNIPERS ! There, i said it.
ak tak Gallactic Security Force 0	Posted - 2014.09.25 19:49:00 - [46] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: My opinion on the sniper changes: I think the changes were a step in the right direction, I like how each rifle now has its own role and is good in its own way. Sniper zooms still suck. I think they should increase charge and normal rifle zoom since these rifles are intended to be used at longer ranges. Its difficult to identify the head on enemy models from even 300m away, much less 450, the zoom is inadequate for half the weapons effective range. I dont think this patch is going to change the redline sniping "problem" in any real way (and I want to make it clear that I dont really think its a problem, there are plenty of ways to stop or avoid snipers in the redline to minimize their effectiveness). The root issue causing redline sniping is that snipers stay in the redline because its the only place they can actually use the sniper rifle without making themselves absurdly vulnerable. If you give someone a weapon where they have to stop, crouch, zoom in (reducing their field of view to a small fraction of what it normally is) and keep that position for ~3 seconds to stabilize the weapon, so that they can then shoot for 4+ seconds in the hopes of connecting with enough shots to kill someone, they are going to have to do all the above in a safe place where they can expect to not have a shotgun scout decloak 3 feet behind them and give them a bunch of additional buckshot sized assholes. Until the insane amount of risk the sniper firing routine exposes snipers to is reduced in some way, they are going to continue to mitigate that risk by staying in places where they wont get creamed the second they try to use their gun. This is why you almost always see snipers sitting on rooftops or in the redline. This isnt rocket surgery, its simple cause and effect. It doesnt matter what you do with the weapon ranges or making the redline somehow filter bullets, or whatever. The end result of the sniper mechanics as they are now is that they will be used in the redline or they will not be used at all. Now that's a comment worth reading ! This is the truth, I believe most everyone complaining about snipers never sniped in DUST before as it is really almost impossible to survive truing to move through the battlefield never mind trying to fire from the frontline. I Spend thousands of ISK because of that single problem of not being able to really effectively fire without getting stomped in the frontline.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1767	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:00:00 - [47] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: How about anything involving the redline changing parameters of the game are out of the question for the time being? Face stomp nerf sniper rifles out of exsistence. New sniper rifle - Tac AR new variant with much small magazine, massively increased damage per bullet, increased zoom (aka decreased field of view while ADS) perameters changed to handle more like a snipe, decreased rate of fire of course etc... Could also be done with any rifle, I just chose the Tac AR because of its scope design being similar to a sniper (more similar than the others at least I would say) "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
ak tak Gallactic Security Force 0	Posted - 2014.09.25 20:03:00 - [48] - Quote WTF, the way things are going , might as well make sniper rifles into bow and arrow with suction cup tips.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 589	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:06:00 - [49] - Quote ak tak wrote: WTF, the way things are going , might as well make sniper rifles into bow and arrow with suction cup tips. I think the biggest thing I want is to remove the extra layer of defense a redline sniper gets that EVERYONE else does not. By being in the redline you get a 15 sec instakill defense. This means someone has to get to you within 15 seconds in the redline or they die. That is an INSANE advantage. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16707	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:07:00 - [50] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: How about anything involving the redline changing parameters of the game are out of the question for the time being? Should be pretty simple then, find the map with the shortest distance between the redline and the points in domination, set MAX sniper range to the edge of the redline to the point. Done. Or if that is too short, Max 300m range with a fall-off. No one is sniping anyone from 300m with forge guns. Most I ever see is 200ms. Sure 300 may happen once in a blue moon, but from 300m you can't really even see a target with the forge. If forge sniping from 300 m is a problem, make the reticule no longer turn red for infantry for forge guns. You forgot the divide by 2. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 666	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:18:00 - [51] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Here's an idea... Hey ads pilots wipe them tears and go kill all those snipers. I swear I saw thale's on the kill feed. What do you think I did with my dropship? I use an ADS with a scanner on it (because of derp-rendering), and come in with a Python. Try to tear up the redline snipers. Burn away. I haven't gotten a chance to try this tactic yet with Delta and the extreme amount of changes in the situation (Commando with sniper and swarms. either the caldari or minmatar would be effective in this situation, caldari for extra stopping power on sniping, minmatar for that added damage boost to missiles, not to mention the AB, and swarms change). That's too many numbers too see if ADSing is still an effective hard counter to snipers. But if they are starter fits, you bet I'll tear them up in my ADS. Even more so, if I see an enemy Thale's in the feed, I'm hunting him down. Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Alejandro Guerra B Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:46:00 - [52] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Alejandro Guerra B wrote: you're wrong and I'm sniper played all day today and these modifications leave obsolete sniper, the reason is simple, the distance is very short, and everyone sees you, and you die by rookies, besides these at ground and you can not see anyone that hinders all the sniper to death And now you know what it's like to be a target of a sniper. I have no empathy for you or any sniper. You've had a practically zero risk game to play for more than a year now, so you'll pardon me if I'm not crying over the fact that you're now vulnerable if you leave the redline,...like everything else in this game. If I were you, I'd be happy with the headshot bonuses and damage buffs and not QQing over having to leave the relative safety of the redline to get kills. Useless, cowardly snipers. apology but cowards you are not accepting a role, is like asking a war that did not use snipers, that's silly, to remember that it is a simulator, and skills is no favoritism.
Alejandro Guerra B Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:49:00 - [53] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Here's an idea... Hey ads pilots wipe them tears and go kill all those snipers. I swear I saw thale's on the kill feed. What do you think I did with my dropship? I use an ADS with a scanner on it (because of derp-rendering), and come in with a Python. Try to tear up the redline snipers. Burn away. I haven't gotten a chance to try this tactic yet with Delta and the extreme amount of changes in the situation (Commando with sniper and swarms. either the caldari or minmatar would be effective in this situation, caldari for extra stopping power on sniping, minmatar for that added damage boost to missiles, not to mention the AB, and swarms change). That's too many numbers too see if ADSing is still an effective hard counter to snipers. But if they are starter fits, you bet I'll tear them up in my ADS. Even more so, if I see an enemy Thale's in the feed, I'm hunting him down. I agree with you, the natural enemy sniper ship is peaking and shotgun, not one infantry
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3616	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:13:00 - [54] - Quote Snipers can't snipe from the redline, anymore, unless you're over at home point. When I was in Manus Peak Skirmish, I couldn't snipe from the hills behind C towards B because it's too far. Working as intended. May I say, I love the PLC Reticle, by the way. Anywho, whomever complains about snipers are complete, and utter, scrubs.
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 1319	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:15:00 - [55] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Anywho, whomever complains about snipers are complete, and utter, scrubs. You mean nothing's changed? Jaceon Pale-eye. And you shall know me by the sound of Charge SR bullets whizzing by your head as I miss repeatedly.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 45	Posted - 2014.09.26 11:22:00 - [56] - Quote If you are where you are suppose to be there is no ******* way to get hit into the whelps -50dkp On second thought kills in the red zone trigger whelp attack. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 495	Posted - 2014.09.26 18:39:00 - [57] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: How about anything involving the redline changing parameters of the game are out of the question for the time being? Should be pretty simple then, find the map with the shortest distance between the redline and the points in domination, set MAX sniper range to the edge of the redline to the point. Done. Or if that is too short, Max 300m range with a fall-off. No one is sniping anyone from 300m with forge guns. Most I ever see is 200ms. Sure 300 may happen once in a blue moon, but from 300m you can't really even see a target with the forge. If forge sniping from 300 m is a problem, make the reticule no longer turn red for infantry for forge guns. so you would rather come on here and ruin the game for two types of player than try to deal with a few snipers. well thought out.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1547	Posted - 2014.09.26 19:57:00 - [58] - Quote I thought these changes were to move the snipers onto the playing field? I've seen only three snipers outside the redline, and they were dead before I could get to them to melee their sorry asses. If anything, redlilne sniping is WORSE than it was pre-Delta, for those points that are within range of the redline sniping spots, as the TTK for targets has gone way down. I suspect the issue of redline sniping will continue to linger until another alternative is found.

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