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Half a day of Delta passed...ADSs...I need a moment please :´(

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poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 436	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:09:00 - [1] - Quote and I am loosing 3-5 pythons a match to swarms. And I am supposed to be called an average ADS pilot, even a good pilot by some. I must say my problem is not necessarily the RoF, Im kind of ok with it as it is though there is no chance for me to kill vehicles. My problem is how vulnerable the ship is. I always get hit with 3 volleys from a swarm now unless I am already on on the move when the first one hits me, they are taking half my shield every hit so if I ccome across a proto AV or an advanced+ commando I stand "almost" no chance. I cannot even imagine what the incubus pilots are going through right now The "almost" means that I am sometimes able to hit all 3 hits on that commando and he actually dies before he can hit me the third time. If he has company its impossible. If I get hit with my afterburner on cooldown(not even hovering) I am dead already and could just abandon the ship right then. I will never be able to fit more than a basic AB because of how ridiculus it is to fit on PG so I will always have to wait at least 33,75 sec (45x0.75=33,75) The rotation speed of swarm missiles went down from 90 to 80. I am really sorry to say but I notice no difference at all, absolutely none. They still follow me around buildings, I can not turn away from them(if I do it just takes them 0.1 sec longer to catch up to me) I gonna get ** on for this but.. To be absolutely honest and even my minmando friends agree with me(I am one to btw). The swarm didnt need a speed buff. It was really powerful before, it didnt deny all airspace like it does now but it was good for keeping dropships away and very often did the last punch to them. The forge guns already exists so whenever a dropship runs away really hurt by swarms gets gunned down by the forge. or 2 swarmers would gang up on an ADS and take it down with ease. Not all weapons have to have the exact same role. I think ADSs should at least have some shot of escaping. On the graphs rattati showed us it shows that you can run away only getting hit by 2 volleys going from hovering mode. He doesnt count in that you need at least** 1,5 sec recover from the impact the first volley punches. I am ok with the python as it is, its not to powerful, it is a threat to infantry still but not to big though. Its a descent threat for shield tanks and almost no threat to armor tanks (annoying fcking flies taking down my shield!) The swarm is OP AS FUQ is what I say and will not take it back. I give up R.I.P ADS getting more proficiency in the shotgun so I can kill every single fck I see using swarmlauncher
CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 123	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:16:00 - [2] - Quote inb4 Soraya
The Master Race Immortal Guides 35	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:27:00 - [3] - Quote Take into consideration that sniper will be in battle now and able to hit many more positions and counter your swarms also remember drop ships and ads are now the only ones able to clear table tops. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3609	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:32:00 - [4] - Quote CamClarke wrote: inb4 Soraya X If there's ADSes on the field, I can easily lose 3-5 equally expensive proto suits in a match to them. o.O CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
P14GU3 GoD Killahs 891	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:34:00 - [5] - Quote It sounds to me like you are trying to go head on with swarmers. From what I understand (and have for a long time) is vehicles have "waves of opportunity." You fly in, eff sh!t up, and AB out when you start taking damage. When that first swarm hits now, you need to gtfo, not dawdle until its too late like you could before. Swarms cant fire on infantry. Their ONLY use is against vehicles. Why do you expect to go head on with on in a vehicle? I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 125	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:37:00 - [6] - Quote And if I'm not using a Scout suit, I can easily lose 3-5 equally expensive proto suits in a match to them. What's your point?
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo 224	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:37:00 - [7] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CamClarke wrote: inb4 Soraya X If there's ADSes on the field, I can easily lose 3-5 equally expensive proto suits in a match to them. o.O Unless you come in with your starter AV fit and shoot 3 volleys at them with a militia swarms. Oh, it will work, we cant actually get away from you anymore. G.L.O.R.Y solider, Master of the Heavy (Amarr & Gallente)
Jaselyn Cabellos G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 102	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:38:00 - [8] - Quote I share your pain and sorrow. This is 1.7 all over again accept against ADS. Flying Mouse and Keyboard since:
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 988	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:40:00 - [9] - Quote Before this patch I stopped flying ADSs because I lost too much isk because of swarms. I can't imagine how much worse it is for ADS pilots now that swarms are even faster and the afterburner got face stomped nerfed. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3609	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:58:00 - [10] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: CamClarke wrote: inb4 Soraya X If there's ADSes on the field, I can easily lose 3-5 equally expensive proto suits in a match to them. o.O Unless you come in with your starter AV fit and shoot 3 volleys at them with a militia swarms. Oh, it will work, we cant actually get away from you anymore. 2 volleys, unless they buffed militia swarms' mag size. I still see ADS wrecking face because no one pulls out AV on my team. When they do though, I'm glad that swarms can actually hit more than one or two volleys thanks to AB nerf.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3615	Posted - 2014.09.24 21:59:00 - [11] - Quote My swarms are Wiyrkomi with Proficiency... IV, I believe, and some damage mods. And I stopped being able to kill derpships with it months ago. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1017	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:07:00 - [12] - Quote The only middle ground solution would be to give dropships a third form of health, meaning after they take damage their overall Armor and Shield would decrease according to it. I think some people classify it as "structure" from EVE but I'm not sure how that operates relatively. While shield and armor can be restored on the field, the structure would require a depot to replenish... the problem with this, is that it would require more programming and the major teams have already been pooled over toward Legion. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3617	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:11:00 - [13] - Quote Structure is the hull under the armor which is, of course, under the shields. A dropsuit, for reference, has like 10 structure. Real men hull tank, but hull tanking in DUST would be a bad idea. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Capital Punishment. 361	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:14:00 - [14] - Quote poison Diego wrote: and I am loosing 3-5 pythons a match to swarms. And I am supposed to be called an average ADS pilot, even a good pilot by some. I must say my problem is not necessarily the RoF, Im kind of ok with it as it is though there is no chance for me to kill vehicles. My problem is how vulnerable the ship is. I always get hit with 3 volleys from a swarm now unless I am already on on the move when the first one hits me, they are taking half my shield every hit so if I ccome across a proto AV or an advanced+ commando I stand "almost" no chance. I cannot even imagine what the incubus pilots are going through right now The "almost" means that I am sometimes able to hit all 3 hits on that commando and he actually dies before he can hit me the third time. If he has company its impossible. If I get hit with my afterburner on cooldown(not even hovering) I am dead already and could just abandon the ship right then. I will never be able to fit more than a basic AB because of how ridiculus it is to fit on PG so I will always have to wait at least 33,75 sec (45x0.75=33,75) The rotation speed of swarm missiles went down from 90 to 80. I am really sorry to say but I notice no difference at all, absolutely none. They still follow me around buildings, I can not turn away from them(if I do it just takes them 0.1 sec longer to catch up to me) I gonna get ** on for this but.. To be absolutely honest and even my minmando friends agree with me(I am one to btw). The swarm didnt need a speed buff. It was really powerful before, it didnt deny all airspace like it does now but it was good for keeping dropships away and very often did the last punch to them. The forge guns already exists so whenever a dropship runs away really hurt by swarms gets gunned down by the forge. or 2 swarmers would gang up on an ADS and take it down with ease. Not all weapons have to have the exact same role. I think ADSs should at least have some shot of escaping. On the graphs rattati showed us it shows that you can run away only getting hit by 2 volleys going from hovering mode. He doesnt count in that you need at least** 1,5 sec recover from the impact the first volley punches. I am ok with the python as it is, its not to powerful, it is a threat to infantry still but not to big though. Its a descent threat for shield tanks and almost no threat to armor tanks (annoying f*cking flies taking down my shield!) The swarm is OP AS FUQ is what I say and will not take it back. YO! I played against you. I don't know if you remember me, but I was the guy bombarding you with swarms on the high tower (forgot map name) You took quite a beating before going down Been here since Mordus Private Trials Closed Beta Vet under 30 million SP ;-;
BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES THE BONERBOMBS 30	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:15:00 - [15] - Quote So don't fly in pieces of paper. But I think increasing the lock on time for swarm would solve this horseshit. Swarm are the most idiot proof weapons since all it takes is instant lock and and fire. Amazing how the easiest weapons to use do 3500 damage a volley. I enjoy beverage I manage beverage But mostly enjoy beverage
Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 61	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:17:00 - [16] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: It sounds to me like you are trying to go head on with swarmers. Sounds to me like you aren't actually a dropship pilot, but instead trying to be Jan Michael Vincent in Airwolf. If you can't drop off a fire team without dying to swarms, it's because you are trying to be a slayer, in a transport vehicle. But its called Assault Dropship, and I have a weapon strapped to it! Well, logis carry a weapon too, but it's not their role to be a slayer. Most of us remember Cal logis with Duvolle TARs being FOTM once upon a time. Your month just ended when Delta dropped. You aren't a slayer. Stop flying like one. Drop off your team, recall that tin can and come play Scouts and Heavies 514 like the rest of us!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3617	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:23:00 - [17] - Quote BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES wrote: So don't fly in pieces of paper. But I think increasing the lock on time for swarm would solve this horseshit. Swarm are the most idiot proof weapons since all it takes is instant lock and and fire. Amazing how the easiest weapons to use do 3500 damage a volley. They're actually a pain to use. Because their lock range is incredibly short (a peeve of mine) and they fail to hit often because the ADS can move behind buildings and such. Meanwhile, forge guns have a much greater range, pinpoint accuracy (almost as good as a sniper), and near instant speed that makes them incredibly effective. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1759	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:24:00 - [18] - Quote I havent been back on my ADS pilot since the changes, but I am going to pre-emptively say that they got nerfed too hard from what I have seen so far. They needed changes for sure, I welcomed the balance with the small decrease of cost. I think they might have gone overboard on the swarms, if you want dropships to have to dodge then missiles need to turn much slower than '80'. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3705	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:26:00 - [19] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Real men hull tank, but hull tanking in DUST would be a bad idea. I contest that claim. I want to hull tank my scout and heavy suits. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1759	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:26:00 - [20] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES wrote: So don't fly in pieces of paper. But I think increasing the lock on time for swarm would solve this horseshit. Swarm are the most idiot proof weapons since all it takes is instant lock and and fire. Amazing how the easiest weapons to use do 3500 damage a volley. They're actually a pain to use. Because their lock range is incredibly short (a peeve of mine) and they fail to hit often because the ADS can move behind buildings and such. Meanwhile, forge guns have a much greater range, pinpoint accuracy (almost as good as a sniper), and near instant speed that makes them incredibly effective. Hey yea but Soraya, thats the trade off associated with using a forge. You are commited to a heavy suit. Swarms can be used on any suit. You could chose to be fast and nimble with a scout swarmer, you could be a commando, you could be a cheap dmg mod stacked medium frame etc.... You cant have the swarms be on par with the forge. Light AV vs Heavy AV "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 63	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:27:00 - [21] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I havent been back on my ADS pilot since the changes, but I am going to pre-emptively say that they got nerfed too hard from what I have seen so far. They needed changes for sure, I welcomed the balance with the small decrease of cost. I think they might have gone overboard on the swarms, if you want dropships to have to dodge then missiles need to turn much slower than '80'. Or maybe Dropships can go back to, you know, dropping dudes off, instead of killing ****. Just sayin.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 336	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:30:00 - [22] - Quote ADS is just a waste of time to spec into. You will get laughed at for thinking to use 1. get a grimsness with a gunner instead. Cheaper, tanky and costs much less SP to get. If you cant avoid swarms then you got to tank them. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3619	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:31:00 - [23] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES wrote: So don't fly in pieces of paper. But I think increasing the lock on time for swarm would solve this horseshit. Swarm are the most idiot proof weapons since all it takes is instant lock and and fire. Amazing how the easiest weapons to use do 3500 damage a volley. They're actually a pain to use. Because their lock range is incredibly short (a peeve of mine) and they fail to hit often because the ADS can move behind buildings and such. Meanwhile, forge guns have a much greater range, pinpoint accuracy (almost as good as a sniper), and near instant speed that makes them incredibly effective. Hey yea but Soraya, thats the trade off associated with using a forge. You are commited to a heavy suit. Swarms can be used on any suit. You could chose to be fast and nimble with a scout swarmer, you could be a commando, you could be a cheap dmg mod stacked medium frame etc.... You cant have the swarms be on par with the forge. Light AV vs Heavy AV An assault suit isn't much faster when you're trying to chase down a vehicle, trust me, especially with the pitiful lock range of a swarm launcher. And the extra tank on a heavy suit is nice since you're probably going to get shot at by overpowered vehicles. Not really a trade off. And forge guns are always more effective than swarms. (At least, pre-Delta. Haven't tried Delta yet.) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 336	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:35:00 - [24] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES wrote: So don't fly in pieces of paper. But I think increasing the lock on time for swarm would solve this horseshit. Swarm are the most idiot proof weapons since all it takes is instant lock and and fire. Amazing how the easiest weapons to use do 3500 damage a volley. They're actually a pain to use. Because their lock range is incredibly short (a peeve of mine) and they fail to hit often because the ADS can move behind buildings and such. Meanwhile, forge guns have a much greater range, pinpoint accuracy (almost as good as a sniper), and near instant speed that makes them incredibly effective. Hey yea but Soraya, thats the trade off associated with using a forge. You are commited to a heavy suit. Swarms can be used on any suit. You could chose to be fast and nimble with a scout swarmer, you could be a commando, you could be a cheap dmg mod stacked medium frame etc.... You cant have the swarms be on par with the forge. Light AV vs Heavy AV An assault suit isn't much faster when you're trying to chase down a vehicle, trust me, especially with the pitiful lock range of a swarm launcher. And the extra tank on a heavy suit is nice since you're probably going to get shot at by overpowered vehicles. Not really a trade off. And forge guns are always more effective than swarms. (At least, pre-Delta. Haven't tried Delta yet.) Swarms shouldnt be run on medium frames, the only option that makes sense is to put them on a scout and attack vehicles from their blindspot. Avoiding infantry and damage is the #1 priority when you are doing AV. And both can easy be achieved with a scout suit. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3619	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:38:00 - [25] - Quote Swarms were so useless in Hotfix Charlie, they should've been a sidearm. (I actually suggested this, rather than buffing them. Nobody went for it though. It was probably a good decision not to, but sixteen swarms on a team would've been fun.) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 342	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:40:00 - [26] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Swarms were so useless in Hotfix Charlie, they should've been a sidearm. (I actually suggested this, rather than buffing them. Nobody went for it though. It was probably a good decision not to, but sixteen swarms on a team would've been fun.) Thats one hell off a lie. Swarms where usefull espacially on cloaked scouts who can sneak past enemys and ambush tanks. And they still forced ADS to leave the field. So they where not useless. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Her Nibs G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 160	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:43:00 - [27] - Quote I feel your pain ADS pilots. NOT. When I can lose proto suits to your XT's as well as my team mates, that's OK with you, but all I am trying to do is keep you off the infantry so they can do their job.....kill clones. And when I take down a Python with XT's I get hate mail. HMMMM 15 proto suits killed, 1 Python.....seems fair. Just glad my swarms can now catch you a bit faster. Thank you CCP, but you still haven't restored that old feeling of power when swarms are released. Cud you work on that please. OOPS, I'm sorry. Did I just blow up your Python
Her Nibs G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 160	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:44:00 - [28] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Swarms were so useless in Hotfix Charlie, they should've been a sidearm. (I actually suggested this, rather than buffing them. Nobody went for it though. It was probably a good decision not to, but sixteen swarms on a team would've been fun.) I'll join your 16 swarmers in a match. LOL OOPS, I'm sorry. Did I just blow up your Python
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5191	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:56:00 - [29] - Quote Hit a Python earlier today with 3 consecutive, proficiency 5 volleys. I caught him offguard and well inside my 175m range. He activated shield hardeners almost immediately when struck, and he got away. Had I a partner to sync strikes with, he most assuredly would not have escaped. Point being, 3 is not a guaranteed kill. From my perspective on the ground, the biggest difference is that 3 volleys launched on an ADS off-guard are 3 volleys which are very likely to connect, whereas before only one or two would connect. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 437	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:01:00 - [30] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: My swarms are Wiyrkomi with Proficiency... IV, I believe, and some damage mods. And I stopped being able to kill derpships with it months ago. I am telling you from EXPERIENCE that ADSs are unusable now, unless the enemy team has nothing but militia AV. I dont think you actually understand how I bleed when a SINGLE swarmlauncher catches on. I am on half armor every engagement with an ADV swarm and dead vs proto. I dont care how much you jack your swarm off at night. THIS IS UNBALANCED ADSs were unbalanced before, now the have been nerfed to sht=balanced but the swarms didnt need this I give up R.I.P ADS getting more proficiency in the shotgun so I can kill every single fck I see using swarmlauncher

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3621	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:08:00 - [31] - Quote poison Diego, if the data supports that claim, CCP Rattati will buff the ADS. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Juno Tristan Inner.Hell 79	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:10:00 - [32] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Hit a Python earlier today with 3 consecutive, proficiency 5 volleys. This is the first in a long time that all 3 connected. I caught him offguard and well inside my 175m range. He activated shield hardeners when struck and immediately ascended. He survived, though each volley I'd launched appeared to connect. Had I a partner to sync strikes with, he most assuredly would not have escaped. Point being, 3 is not a guaranteed kill; in a 1v1 setting, a well-fit Python has good odds of survival even against max skill swarmer. In a 2v1 setting, on the other hand, I believe the Python's odds to be much lower than before Delta. From my perspective on the ground, the biggest difference is that 3 volleys launched on an ADS off-guard are 3 volleys which are very likely to connect, whereas before only one or two would connect. So 1 clip of your armour focused weapon didn't kill a shield based vehicle because they had to use an active mod that has at least a minute cool down to survive against your 2 second reload
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5195	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:29:00 - [33] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Hit a Python earlier today with 3 consecutive, proficiency 5 volleys. This is the first in a long time that all 3 connected. I caught him offguard and well inside my 175m range. He activated shield hardeners when struck and immediately ascended. He survived, though each volley I'd launched appeared to connect. Had I a partner to sync strikes with, he most assuredly would not have escaped. Point being, 3 is not a guaranteed kill; in a 1v1 setting, a well-fit Python has good odds of survival even against max skill swarmer. In a 2v1 setting, on the other hand, I believe the Python's odds to be much lower than before Delta. From my perspective on the ground, the biggest difference is that 3 volleys launched on an ADS off-guard are 3 volleys which are very likely to connect, whereas before only one or two would connect. So 1 clip of your armour focused weapon didn't kill a shield based vehicle because they had to use an active mod that has at least a minute cool down to survive against your 2 second reload Correct. Concerns were expressed by several ADS pilots pre-Delta that a clip of prototype swarms with any proficiency would guarantee a kill. I agree that this would've been a problem. Fortunately for everyone, it is not the case, even at max proficiency. As for this pilot, he was well beyond my 175m range before I'd finished reloading. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 437	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:34:00 - [34] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: poison Diego, if the data supports that claim, CCP Rattati will buff the ADS. no they dont need a buff unless its 800-1000 more shields. The swarm needs not to be this powerful I give up R.I.P ADS getting more proficiency in the shotgun so I can kill every single f*ck I see using swarmlauncher
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3632	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:41:00 - [35] - Quote poison Diego wrote: The swarm needs not to be this powerful I haven't seen how Delta swarms perform yet (need to go home and try stuff), but given that swarms have been a useless flare gun for months, I can't imagine them being that incredible. The primary notion was that it needed to be possible for swarms to catch up to an ADS which wasn't afterburning. Being able to hit your target on occasion is a fundamental requirement of being at all useful. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 437	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:45:00 - [36] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: poison Diego wrote: The swarm needs not to be this powerful I haven't seen how Delta swarms perform yet (need to go home and try stuff), but given that swarms have been a useless flare gun for months, I can't imagine them being that incredible. The primary notion was that it needed to be possible for swarms to catch up to an ADS which wasn't afterburning. Being able to hit your target on occasion is a fundamental requirement of being at all useful. they were good before. they would take my ship down to about 200-400 shield before I could slip away. Or they would give me the last kiss after a forge has hit me once. It needed 1 and a half AVer to kill a dropship before. now it is a cakewalk. Believe me, I have commando NEO mk.0 with state wirokomi and no proficiency and those tinkerbells melt in seconds.. I give up R.I.P ADS getting more proficiency in the shotgun so I can kill every single f*ck I see using swarmlauncher
valad II NoGameNoLife 88	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:57:00 - [37] - Quote I specced Swarms op5, Pro 3 just because the ADS were getting hammered. WOW was it worth it. These Wyrokomi(sp) are sick. Plus all of the tears from the pilots is just a bonus ontop. Thank you CCP for buffing swarms and nerfing Dropships at the same time. A double victory. I even show down derrith and he is a great pilot. Holding him to only going 12/2 is a win. I just wish Swarms had their distance back. Again, Thank you CCP
Juno Tristan Inner.Hell 79	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:58:00 - [38] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: poison Diego wrote: The swarm needs not to be this powerful I haven't seen how Delta swarms perform yet (need to go home and try stuff), but given that swarms have been a useless flare gun for months, I can't imagine them being that incredible. The primary notion was that it needed to be possible for swarms to catch up to an ADS which wasn't afterburning. Being able to hit your target on occasion is a fundamental requirement of being at all useful. Lol flaregun The point of swarms is that they're an ambush weapon (part of the reason they're so effective on a scout suit) and the skill of the weapon was to get the first and second strikes to hit at the same time Now it's like, shot down by swarms, wow that guy sure is good at looking at my general direction
valad II NoGameNoLife 89	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:04:00 - [39] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Swarms were so useless in Hotfix Charlie, they should've been a sidearm. (I actually suggested this, rather than buffing them. Nobody went for it though. It was probably a good decision not to, but sixteen swarms on a team would've been fun.) I can't push the like button enough. No vehicles would survive. They should be a sidearm.
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 296	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:21:00 - [40] - Quote First of all, ADS Pilot and Proto Minmando with prof V swarms here. I always found it rediculous, that an anti vehicle rocket could not reach a subject that it's supposed to destroy. So I'm very glad that they finally catch up with the DS. It should have been like that all along. Second, It makes absolutely no sense that if you launch av against a DS, that the pilot can tank the av for a while instead of just moving out instantly. This has been changed, and I like that a lot. The module cooldown was very needed. After ADS reign supreme, it was about time that things changed. Do you pilots really think that it's balanced, when barely anybody has the chance to take you down? A swarmer on a roof has to be taken out by your teammates, if you have no mates, then get in a squad, or avoid the swarmer position. A swarm should be area denial, and that's what we got now. So you better do a strafe run before you start to hover over infantry to go for those easy kills you had for the last months. BTW I actually would like to have a even bigger turn radius on the swarms, would make it possible to curve swarms around obstacles, like a boomerang.

Atiim 12485	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:22:00 - [41] - Quote @P1 I find 3-5 deaths to be rather reasonable in a Multiplayer FPS title. But if you're somehow loosing 3-5 ships then you must not be as good as people say you are. The only way to die that many times to a Swarm Launcher is to keep getting within it's range as opposed to attacking from a different area. @P2 I fail to see a problem with being hit by Swarms if you aren't "on the move". As an ADS Pilot, you shouldn't be standing still anyways. Though I'm glad to see that you find surviving engagements against AV difficult, as this means that Hotfix Delta was indeed a success. @P3 When CCP was "rebuilding" vehicles from the ground up, they stated that vehicles (and AV by extension) would have to follow a "Waves of Opportunity" model. Truth be told, Assault Dropships aren't exempt from this rule either. As for not being able to fit a better AB due to CPU/PG requirements, I'd suggest studying this thing that seems to be very common with CCP's design, called quid pro quo. Basically, if you want something, you'll have to make a sacrifice in return for it. Just like a MinCom (or any suit) looking to deal max damage will have to sacrifice a lot of tank, ADSs should be sacrificing max efficiency if they want to escape engagements easier. @P4 It took me about a minute to decide whether or not to waste my keystrokes on this assertion, as it's all anecdotal. Not only is it anecdotal (and possibly fabricated), the statements don't support any of the data available collected by CCP. Whether or not Forge Guns exist is irrelevant, as it doesn't change how innefficent SLs were. If you need to rely on a target being severely damaged to kill it, along with multiple people with similar SP investments to be effective than it has no purpose for existing, as nobody will use that over the other options. (If 2x Gëñ 1y = 1z, why would anyone use anything but Y or Z?) @P5 Assault Dropships do have a chance of escaping. You can ADS to survive 3 volleys, so assuming you aren't standing still like a mouthbreather, you'll be able to escape, along with that, you can easily escape 175m before all 3 volleys are fired, provided you aren't 0m away. 1.5s is an exaggeration, and even when you're being knocked back, you can still fly forward. @Soraya Xel If the data supports it, then I'm indeed in favor of Swarm Launcher adjustments. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Generic Gristle Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 7	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:25:00 - [42] - Quote butthurt thread from mediocre pilots who cant farm kills all day anymore. so now i can say 'OK ill spawn an AV fit I have a chance' rather than 'Crap I need to distract that ADS for as long as possible before it massacres my team'
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 583	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:29:00 - [43] - Quote I want to reply constructively, but imbored of the whining by some other pilots. The ADS' I've seen today have been no worse than normal, other than flying away slower. Change your flying style. ADS never were and never should of been used as a Flying Tank. And for goodness sake dont fly into a group of AV users expecting to survive. I'll second Atiim on the losing 3-5 ships a match part... like is it seriously that hard to adjuet your flying style? The only person in Dust stupid enough to Proto every single god-damn weapon. 19/19.
Zindorak 1.U.P 944	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:32:00 - [44] - Quote Its sad to see a pro ADS flyer get owned by noskillswarms Pokemon master! I suck at Tekken lol
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 584	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:35:00 - [45] - Quote Accidently quoted myself, carry on. Only Dust player with all Proto Weapons Prof 1. 19/19. Pilot, Slayer, Logibro. And Heavy. And Scout. And Tanker.
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 438	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:44:00 - [46] - Quote Atiim wrote: @P1 I find 3-5 deaths to be rather reasonable in a Multiplayer FPS title. But if you're somehow loosing 3-5 ships then you must not be as good as people say you are. The only way to die that many times to a Swarm Launcher is to keep getting within it's range as opposed to attacking from a different area. @P2 I fail to see a problem with being hit by Swarms if you aren't "on the move". As an ADS Pilot, you shouldn't be standing still anyways. Though I'm glad to see that you find surviving engagements against AV difficult, as this means that Hotfix Delta was indeed a success. @P3 When CCP was "rebuilding" vehicles from the ground up, they stated that vehicles (and AV by extension) would have to follow a "Waves of Opportunity" model. Truth be told, Assault Dropships aren't exempt from this rule either. As for not being able to fit a better AB due to CPU/PG requirements, I'd suggest studying this thing that seems to be very common with CCP's design, called quid pro quo. Basically, if you want something, you'll have to make a sacrifice in return for it. Just like a MinCom (or any suit) looking to deal max damage will have to sacrifice a lot of tank, ADSs should be sacrificing max efficiency if they want to escape engagements easier. @P4 It took me about a minute to decide whether or not to waste my keystrokes on this assertion, as it's all anecdotal. Not only is it anecdotal (and possibly fabricated), the statements don't support any of the data available collected by CCP. Whether or not Forge Guns exist is irrelevant, as it doesn't change how innefficent SLs were. If you need to rely on a target being severely damaged to kill it, along with multiple people with similar SP investments to be effective than it has no purpose for existing, as nobody will use that over the other options. (If 2x Gëñ 1y = 1z, why would anyone use anything but Y or Z?) @P5 Assault Dropships do have a chance of escaping. You can ADS to survive 3 volleys, so assuming you aren't standing still like a mouthbreather, you'll be able to escape, along with that, you can easily escape 175m before all 3 volleys are fired, provided you aren't 0m away. 1.5s is an exaggeration, and even when you're being knocked back, you can still fly forward. @Soraya Xel If the data supports it, then I'm indeed in favor of Swarm Launcher adjustments. well now it seems to be very popular to run squads of AV and I have been dying alot from those bastards. !,5 sec is not an exaggeration and it is not as easy as it sounds to "just fly forward then" sometimes you are knocked downwards, often to the side, there may be obsticles in the way sou you have to spend extra time getting around them without touching. this all takes time, second swarm already there and the third is guaranteed to hit, OH NO I FORGOT, IM SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO DOGE THEM RIGHT??? I give up R.I.P ADS getting more proficiency in the shotgun so I can kill every single f*ck I see using swarmlauncher
Kaughst Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 597	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:46:00 - [47] - Quote You can never please the ADS pilots...Kind of makes me wonder how vehicles are going to have a role in Legion. You know you have at least thought about cow tipping. They know, and they're out to settle the score.
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 438	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:48:00 - [48] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: First of all, ADS Pilot and Proto Minmando with prof V swarms here. I always found it rediculous, that an anti vehicle rocket could not reach a subject that it's supposed to destroy. So I'm very glad that they finally catch up with the DS. It should have been like that all along. Second, It makes absolutely no sense that if you launch av against a DS, that the pilot can tank the av for a while instead of just moving out instantly. This has been changed, and I like that a lot. The module cooldown was very needed. After ADS reign supreme, it was about time that things changed. Do you pilots really think that it's balanced, when barely anybody has the chance to take you down? A swarmer on a roof has to be taken out by your teammates, if you have no mates, then get in a squad, or avoid the swarmer position. A swarm should be area denial, and that's what we got now. So you better do a strafe run before you start to hover over infantry to go for those easy kills you had for the last months. BTW I actually would like to have a even bigger turn radius on the swarms, would make it possible to curve swarms around obstacles, like a boomerang. For how long have been ADS btw. You dont sound like you have ever lost and ADS in your life. I give up R.I.P ADS getting more proficiency in the shotgun so I can kill every single f*ck I see using swarmlauncher
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 438	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:50:00 - [49] - Quote Kaughst wrote: You can never please the ADS pilots...Kind of makes me wonder how vehicles are going to have a role in Legion. They probably wont have a big one. Everything is going to be dominated by infantry. Im surprised we even have to hack nullcannons, wwhy dont we just blow up the MCCs with our own hands BTW give me back my 50mill I give up R.I.P ADS getting more proficiency in the shotgun so I can kill every single f*ck I see using swarmlauncher
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1239	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:03:00 - [50] - Quote i just saw ehp on a gorgon fit 0 sp alt. i scared my dog when i yelled WTF!!! inb4 nerf AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012

HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 618	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:10:00 - [51] - Quote Sounds like running a shield booster and or a hardener and afterburner is out of the question? Scouts tank to survive damage or ewar to avoid it. You can't be tough without sacrificing damage. Adapt. Lonewolf till I die
poison Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 442	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:12:00 - [52] - Quote If there could be input of a lock on alert it would make it slightly better. a beeping sound when a launcher has locked on to the ship so you at least know there is one incoming it would fix the problem with swarms not rendering and create a little better situational awareness. I give up R.I.P ADS getting more proficiency in the shotgun so I can kill every single f*ck I see using swarmlauncher
Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 67	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:28:00 - [53] - Quote poison Diego wrote: I am telling you from EXPERIENCE that ADSs are unusable now, unless the enemy team has nothing but militia AV. I hate to break it to you Mr. Experience, but I just went 5/1 flying an Incubus in pub Domination. I dropped a dude on a building for droplink shenanigans, blew up a Methana, and killed a few dudes with my lol scrub launcher. I took swarm and forge fire the entire match. I did go down, but I was being greedy. Stayed on hit and run duty after that and did just fine. To top it off, I didn't even fit an afterburner. Fit a scanner instead. Apparently the Incubus isn't DEAD after all when you don't feel entitled to being a slayer. Go figure. Edit: Fixed quote
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 585	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:33:00 - [54] - Quote poison Diego wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: ~snippity snoopity less reading from yours truly~ For how long have been ADS btw. You dont sound like you have ever lost and ADS in your life. Syringe is a very good pilot, and hes lost a fair few (a large number to me!). Couldnt tell you how long hes been flying but hes better than 90% of the the other junk pilots out there. Only Dust player with all Proto Weapons Prof 1. 19/19. Pilot, Slayer, Logibro, Heavy, Scout, Tanker, AV'er. Everything.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2131	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:47:00 - [55] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CamClarke wrote: inb4 Soraya X If there's ADSes on the field, I can easily lose 3-5 equally expensive proto suits in a match to them. o.O Equally expensive? Don't make me laugh. Especially since proto swarms cost all of 40k, almost half of virtually every other proto weapon. Plus on a commando you can fit a light weapon to defend from infantry, so if you down it's your fault. Dust was real! I was there!
Deathlord Diego Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 24	Posted - 2014.09.25 01:51:00 - [56] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: poison Diego wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: ~snippity snoopity less reading from yours truly~ For how long have been ADS btw. You dont sound like you have ever lost and ADS in your life. Syringe is a very good pilot, and hes lost a fair few (a large number to me!). Couldnt tell you how long hes been flying but hes better than 90% of the the other junk pilots out there. kk fair enaugh
Atiim 12487	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:20:00 - [57] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Equally expensive? Don't make me laugh. Especially since proto swarms cost all of 40k, almost half of virtually every other proto weapon. Hmm... Viziam Laser Rifle: 47,220 ISK CreoDron Shotgun: 47,220 ISK Kaalakiota Rail Rifle: 47,220 ISK Duvolle Assault Rifle: 47,220 ISK Freedom Mass Driver: 47,220 ISK Viziam Scrambler Rifle: 47,220 ISK Allotek Plasma Cannon: 47,220 ISK Boundless Combat Rifle: 47,220 ISK Last I checked, (47.22k / 2 Gëá 40k). Though I'll give you the benifit of the doubt and assume that you meant they cost 20k (which is still false, but not as inaccurate). Though only listing the Swarm Launcher itself in a price comparison is null, as you need to purchase more than the Swarm Launcher itself for AV. Considering how a high end AV suit (on average) is 210k, 5-6 deaths costs 1.05-1.2m, which is double the price of a high-end Assault Dropship. Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Plus on a commando you can fit a light weapon to defend from infantry, so if you die it's your fault. This statement does nothing to disprove the assertion. Even if you can defend yourself, you can still expect to die as an AVer. It may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone can insta-teleport to the ~~flight ceiling~~ redline The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES THE BONERBOMBS 33	Posted - 2014.09.25 07:10:00 - [58] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: BONERBOMB TIGBITTIES wrote: So don't fly in pieces of paper. But I think increasing the lock on time for swarm would solve this horseshit. Swarm are the most idiot proof weapons since all it takes is instant lock and and fire. Amazing how the easiest weapons to use do 3500 damage a volley. They're actually a pain to use. Because their lock range is incredibly short (a peeve of mine) and they fail to hit often because the ADS can move behind buildings and such. Meanwhile, forge guns have a much greater range, pinpoint accuracy (almost as good as a sniper), and near instant speed that makes them incredibly effective. Not trying to be a ****. But please spare me the bs on the lock on range of swarms. 400m after lock on? That's cross map. With the speed increase its unavoidable in a tank unless you manage to go around a sharp enough corner which only works well in caldari havs. And forges are much harder to use now since if you want splash damage you need the assault. The assault you can't hold the charge which means if its a moving target your compensating the range while your charging your shot. So swarms are STILL the most idiot proof weapon in the game with its insane damage of 3500 per volley with proto minmando and proficiency 5 I enjoy beverage I manage beverage But mostly enjoy beverage
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 56	Posted - 2014.09.25 09:57:00 - [59] - Quote Serves you right for choosing overpowered solo gear instead of getting on the ground and make a fair earning working together with other players as the game intends that to be.
Mregomies Beer For Evil Mercs 279	Posted - 2014.09.25 10:04:00 - [60] - Quote Last night incubus outrunned my wyrkoswarms easily... several times... you only need to fly tight circles. Suomi, Finland, PERKELE! Logibro Logibro2

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3140	Posted - 2014.09.25 10:09:00 - [61] - Quote If everyone is getting an AVgasm it sounds like it's time for me to farm swarm gunners properly. Warpoints is warpoints.
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 444	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:24:00 - [62] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Structure is the hull under the armor which is, of course, under the shields. A dropsuit, for reference, has like 10 structure. Real men hull tank, but hull tanking in DUST would be a bad idea. F*ck no, I'd hull tank because, like you said: Real men hull tank. Exceptional men pod tank.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 116	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:45:00 - [63] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Structure is the hull under the armor which is, of course, under the shields. A dropsuit, for reference, has like 10 structure. Real men hull tank, but hull tanking in DUST would be a bad idea. F*ck no, I'd hull tank because, like you said: Real men hull tank. Exceptional men pod tank. Is this true??? Would this be why I some times have 0 shield and 0 armor??? I ought it was a glitch.... The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 299	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:43:00 - [64] - Quote Deathlord Diego wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: poison Diego wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: ~snippity snoopity less reading from yours truly~ For how long have been ADS btw. You dont sound like you have ever lost and ADS in your life. Syringe is a very good pilot, and hes lost a fair few (a large number to me!). Couldnt tell you how long hes been flying but hes better than 90% of the the other junk pilots out there. kk fair enaugh I have been flying for a loooong time. But I dumped all my vehicle points into infantry when we got the vehicle sp refund. Nowadays I mostly fly crew delivery and a pretty crappy ADS with level 1 mods and advanced turrets. My usual tactic for AV is to fly as a daisy cutter so that av has no possibility of locking on. I usually do not fight infantry, except taking out high campers. If they take me down I try to slam a basic ds on their heads and jump out with a heavy hmg combo or some mates if in squad. Does anybody know if the skill stacking of gunner pilot is still a thing? Edit: BTW, from now on I will call myself not only a Masshole, but also a dedicated Swarmhole... see you on the field... Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing...
danthrax martin Butcher's Nails 140	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:09:00 - [65] - Quote I was going to post as a smart@ss, but this: Do most ads and tankers realize where swarms were a year and a half ago? I was a sniper and swarmed with access to the whole map. I would be orbitaled in the hills all be my lonesome. 3 swarmers could lock down a map. I don't get the complaints now unless pilots are new and don't research what they are getting into. How many thousands of pages of posts can people look through?. Pro Galmando - Gal Sentinel Suicidal A/V Moron
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 129	Posted - 2014.09.25 18:17:00 - [66] - Quote Some guy was evading my swarms by hitting his ABs and instead of going up he would launch to the left or right to get out of the swarms zone, he managed to dodge a good 5 or 6 swarms that way before I got tired of it and pulled my forge out and nailed him. The buff to swarm speed was so you couldn't just use your ABs to run away. You have to also be able to evade and out manuever the swarms. Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price


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