Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
zzZaXxx
Vengeance Unbound
504
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 21:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everybody wins. Experienced players get better competition and less boring stomping. New players get to actually compete instead of getting rolled and quitting (as they should). DUST's days are numbered anyways. let's make the best of the time we have.
To keep it fair you could give all players a one-time SP bonus at the same time you change the SP floor to 15 mil. The more SP a player has, the smaller the bonus. Experienced players would lose nothing and gain a much more interesting game with more evenly balanced competition and a much higher rate of good fights (and they'd get their bonus). Newer players would be greatly heartened and would be more confident and perform better in battle. They would also find it easier to join a decent corp. It would also help greatly to hook people who are just trying the game out. It would increase the player base.
You know I'm right! |
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
176
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 21:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 except the bonus ..anyone under 15 mill should be set to 15 ....congrats u just spent past few months grinding a fresh character lol
But otherwise I agree starting sp is not enought
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17679
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 21:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
While I absolutely support more SP for newbies, I don't think lump sums alone are the way to do it.
You end up with a lot of people not really knowing what to spend their skillpoints on. Newbies already fall prey to SP wastes like higher levels of dropsuit command. 15 mil is an awful lot to give to a newbie at once, and chances are they'll spend it all very quickly not really knowing what to spend it on. Then, after they've spent it, they won't feel like they're progressing. There'll be no feel of progression - You started off with a year's worth of SP and even if you grind all week you'll only pull <500k.
Instead of a lump sum, you need a few things in tandem. Firstly, you need vastly better educational support for newbies in terms of spending their skillpoints. Secondly, you need a better designed skill tree. Skills like dropsuit command 4/5 are travesties of game design and should be axed completely.
Then, thirdly, for the increase in SP, rather than just having a sudden (very large) lump sum, give a greatly increased progression rate. Still increase the base SP (from 500k to 2 mil or something) and then give scaling bonuses to take you up to the higher SP counts. For example, start off with a 5x rate of gain and gradually slow down as you increase in total SP until eventually you're at a normal rate of gain once you have much more SP.
Flying to new horizons.
|
CharacterNameWasTaken
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 22:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:Everybody wins. Experienced players get better competition and less boring stomping. New players get to actually compete instead of getting rolled and quitting (as they should). DUST's days are numbered anyways. let's make the best of the time we have.
To keep it fair you could give all players a one-time SP bonus at the same time you change the SP floor to 15 mil. The more SP a player has, the smaller the bonus. Experienced players would lose nothing and gain a much more interesting game with more evenly balanced competition and a much higher rate of good fights (and they'd get their bonus). Newer players would be greatly heartened and would be more confident and perform better in battle. They would also find it easier to join a decent corp. It would also help greatly to hook people who are just trying the game out. It would increase the player base.
You know I'm right! so i worked hard for my 24 mil sp and then what ill only be 10 mil ahead blues? If this happens i want a at least a free 5 mil. |
zzZaXxx
Vengeance Unbound
504
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 22:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:+1 except the bonus ..anyone under 15 mill should be set to 15 ....congrats u just spent past few months grinding a fresh character lol
But otherwise I agree starting sp is not enought Ok, hear me out. You would want a minimum SP gain for players with 15 mil SP or less. Say the minimum is 7 mil, so...
Player with 3 mil SP is bumped to 15 mil SP 7 mil SP --> 15 mil 10 mil --> 17 mil 13 mil --> 20 mil 15 mil --> 22 mil
Then for players with 16 mil SP and up, the bonus would gradually taper off, until it reaches the minimum for high SP players. Let's say that minimum is 500,000 SP. And lets say that is reached at 40 mil SP. So if you have 40 mil SP or more, you're getting an extra 500,000 SP. If your'e at 15 mil or below, you're getting 7 mil SP. If you're in the 16-39 mil SP range, you're getting somewhere between the two. So maybe something like this:
22 mil SP --> 26 mil SP 28 mil SP --> 30.5 mil SP 34 mil SP --> 35.5 mil SP
|
CharacterNameWasTaken
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 22:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspyre wrote: You started off with a year's worth of SP. Ive only been here since the end of 1.6 and i have 24 mil sp if 15 mil is a years worth then you must be slow. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17680
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 22:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:Arkena Wyrnspyre wrote: You started off with a year's worth of SP. Ive only been here since the end of 1.6 and i have 24 mil sp if 15 mil is a years worth then you must be slow.
You pull 9 mil a year from passive SP, and up to 10 mil SP active if you cap out every day unboosted. If you no-life or use boosters then sure, you'll get a little more than that. For the unboosted, average player, though, 15 mil is well within what could reasonably be expected in a year.
15 mil SP would be an understandable number to have after a year.
zzZaXxx wrote: Ok, hear me out. You would want a minimum SP gain for players with 15 mil SP or less. Say the minimum is 7 mil, so...
Player with 3 mil SP is bumped to 15 mil SP 7 mil SP --> 15 mil 10 mil --> 17 mil 13 mil --> 20 mil 15 mil --> 22 mil
Then for players with 16 mil SP and up, the bonus would gradually taper off, until it reaches the minimum for high SP players. Let's say that minimum is 500,000 SP. And lets say that is reached at 40 mil SP. So if you have 40 mil SP or more, you're getting an extra 500,000 SP. If your'e at 15 mil or below, you're getting 7 mil SP. If you're in the 16-39 mil SP range, you're getting somewhere between the two. So maybe something like this:
22 mil SP --> 26 mil SP 28 mil SP --> 30.5 mil SP 34 mil SP --> 35.5 mil SP
I'm unsure why you'd bother trying to do lower boosts for the older players. What would that achieve, exactly? All the people in those SP ranges have the SP they need to use prototype and max cores. Past that point, SP only increases the variety of things you can field rather than your strength on the field.
Would I be correct in thinking your intentions are to reduce the gap between older and newer players? If that's the case, then unfortunately it's never going to be so simple. When you do things with lump sums like this, for a short period you might get some relief. Then, the gap widens up again and you're back where you started.
Flying to new horizons.
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3168
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 22:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: You pull 9 mil a year from passive SP, and up to 10 mil SP active if you cap out every day unboosted. If you no-life or use boosters then sure, you'll get a little more than that. For the unboosted, average player, though, 15 mil is well within what could reasonably be expected in a year.
15 mil SP would be an understandable number to have after a year.
Passive SP 1000 SP/hr 24hr/day 24000 SP/day 365 days/yr 8,760,000 SP/year
Active SP ~190k/week 52 weeks/year 9,880,000 SP/year
Total Unboosted SP ~18,640,000 SP
Total Boosted SP (150%) ~27,960,000 SP
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
|
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17682
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 23:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: You pull 9 mil a year from passive SP, and up to 10 mil SP active if you cap out every day unboosted. If you no-life or use boosters then sure, you'll get a little more than that. For the unboosted, average player, though, 15 mil is well within what could reasonably be expected in a year.
15 mil SP would be an understandable number to have after a year.
Passive SP 1000 SP/hr 24hr/day 24000 SP/day 365 days/yr 8,760,000 SP/year Active SP ~190k/week 52 weeks/year 9,880,000 SP/year Total Unboosted SP ~18,640,000 SP Total Boosted SP (150%) ~27,960,000 SP
Pretty much. If you don't boost, 18 mil is the absolutely maximum you pull in a year by capping out every single week.
Flying to new horizons.
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3169
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 23:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Pretty much. If you don't boost, 18 mil is the absolutely maximum you pull in a year by capping out every single week.
Technically you could squeeze more in with 1000 SP a battle, which works out to lets say 2500 SP an hour. So lets say you get 18 hours in a week after cap under ideal conditions, that's 45,000 SP a week. If you did that every week without fail you're looking at 2,340,000 addition SP a year, which is significant, but not much compared to your total for the year.
That's assuming you cap out in 4 days and then play 6 hours a day after that, which if you have a job/family/girlfriend/boyfriend/life....you're probably not gonna be doing on a regular basis.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
|
|
Zindorak
1.U.P
901
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 23:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Starting SP should allow to expand Dropsuit upgrades so most of them are ADV and a suit or 2 at ADV
Pokemon master!
I suck at Tekken lol
|
zzZaXxx
Vengeance Unbound
504
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 00:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:While I absolutely support more SP for newbies, I don't think lump sums alone are the way to do it.
You end up with a lot of people not really knowing what to spend their skillpoints on. Newbies already fall prey to SP wastes like higher levels of dropsuit command. 15 mil is an awful lot to give to a newbie at once, and chances are they'll spend it all very quickly not really knowing what to spend it on. Then, after they've spent it, they won't feel like they're progressing. There'll be no feel of progression - You started off with a year's worth of SP and even if you grind all week you'll only pull <500k.
Instead of a lump sum, you need a few things in tandem. Firstly, you need vastly better educational support for newbies in terms of spending their skillpoints. Secondly, you need a better designed skill tree. Skills like dropsuit command 4/5 are travesties of game design and should be axed completely.
Then, thirdly, for the increase in SP, rather than just having a sudden (very large) lump sum, give a greatly increased progression rate. Still increase the base SP (from 500k to 2 mil or something) and then give scaling bonuses to take you up to the higher SP counts. For example, start off with a 5x rate of gain and gradually slow down as you increase in total SP until eventually you're at a normal rate of gain once you have much more SP. You're absolutely right about needing to protect noobs from misspending their SP. I still think adjusting it all at one time would be best because that would allow for more control and balance and would fast track noobs to being more competitive. But that fast track would need to regulated a bit so that they don't spend it all too fast on things they end up not wanting.
So here's a solution:
If you're over 25 mil SP, you can spend all your bonus SP immediately. You've had enough time in the game already to know what you want.
If you've got 21-25 mil SP, you are only able to spend half of your unallocated SP each week until you get down to 500,000, at which point you can spend it all.
If you've got 16-20 mil SP, you are only able to spend 1/3 of your unallocated SP each week until you get down to 400,000.
If you've got 15 mil SP, you are only able to spend 1/4 of your unallocated SP each week until you get down to 300,000.
New players would only be able to spend 1/8 of their unallocated for the first two weeks after creating their character, and the tutorial would warn them to be careful with their SP and direct them to a new forum room created for them to ask questions about how to spend it. Nice folks like you and I and many others would happily assist them. GMs would quickly ban players from that chat room if they tried to mislead noobs, and perhaps refund some SP if the noob could point to the place in that forum where he/she was mislead. |
Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3123
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 00:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: You pull 9 mil a year from passive SP, and up to 10 mil SP active if you cap out every day unboosted. If you no-life or use boosters then sure, you'll get a little more than that. For the unboosted, average player, though, 15 mil is well within what could reasonably be expected in a year.
15 mil SP would be an understandable number to have after a year.
Passive SP 1000 SP/hr 24hr/day 24000 SP/day 365 days/yr 8,760,000 SP/year Active SP ~190k/week 52 weeks/year 9,880,000 SP/year Total Unboosted SP ~18,640,000 SP Total Boosted SP (150%) ~27,960,000 SP Pretty much. If you don't boost, 18 mil is the absolutely maximum you pull in a year by capping out every single week. Did you factor in double/triple sp events/Million clone challenge and other sp events of which their are many. I have only ever used 1 omega and one regular booster both of which were gifted to myself and the rest of the dust community by CCP both during triple sp events one of which I didn't even cap in the booster time limit and I have played for 1 year and 3 months give or a take a week or two and have amassed 32.5 million sp. I have also missed numerous weeks at least 3 I didn't even play at all and the first two months I don't think I capped at all. While I do play a lot I only average <1k kills a week far under what most of the people I play with regularly achieve.
Tanker/Logi/Assault
|
zzZaXxx
Vengeance Unbound
504
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 00:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Regardless of how much you've gotten over time, newbros need help now. They don't have any option but to play with the proto-stompers (us). Until they do CCP's progression system is broken and the gap between rich and poor is not only making the game boring, but killing player retention, and poisoning the NPE. The point is to bring new players up to speed so they can compete on a playing field that, while not flat, would no longer be a steep slope that they have to climb while we're taking potshots at them from on high. |
Nevyn Tazinas
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 01:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Or... rather than trying to band aid with SP, we change it a different way and make basic suits both have a purpose, and remove the difference in slot number from Standard > Prototype suits. You still get the increased base stats & PG/CPU on the Prototype suits so you can fit better modules to them, you don't need increased slots over a Standard as well. And by bringing the slot number up on the Standard suits, it would also make PG/CPU support skills matter for those suits.
So you get a win by making all the suits relevant, you get a win by decreasing the gap, and you get a win by making Standard suits actually have to think about fitting requirements & skills also. |
zzZaXxx
Vengeance Unbound
504
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 02:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
That could work! |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9340
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 03:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't know about this.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
|
Miokai Zahou
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
390
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 08:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
This is a bad idea and will never see the light of day.
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
|
Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
1813
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 08:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Im in favour IF i get a cash refund for the boosters ive bought. Why should new players get what vets paid real money for? |
Kaze Eyrou
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
613
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 09:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
*sleepwalks* Mmm... 15 million SP for new characters?
So that means I could create alts forever and immediately have a protosuit and weapon to test out all the time. And proto vehicles too!
Then nobody complains about flavor of the month because everyone has it! Yay!
Munya munya....
*drifts off to sleep*
Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
|
|
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
17695
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 09:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:Regardless of how much you've gotten over time, newbros need help now. They don't have any option but to play with the proto-stompers (us). Until they do CCP's progression system is broken and the gap between rich and poor is not only making the game boring, but killing player retention, and poisoning the NPE. The point is to bring new players up to speed so they can compete on a playing field that, while not flat, would no longer be a steep slope that they have to climb while we're taking potshots at them from on high.
Yes, newbies do need help.
But what you have proposed here is at best a hastily constructed bandaid solution. The problems of the new player do not begin and end with SP. There are many, many problems, which need a much more complex solution than increasing a single number.
Flying to new horizons.
|
Haerr
Legio DXIV
1367
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 10:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
As long as all current players get a 14.5 million SP boost I see no problems with this suggestion. |
zzZaXxx
Vengeance Unbound
505
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 10:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kaze Eyrou wrote:*sleepwalks* Mmm... 15 million SP for new characters?
So that means I could create alts forever and immediately have a protosuit and weapon to test out all the time. And proto vehicles too!
Then nobody complains about flavor of the month because everyone has it! Yay!
Munya munya....
*drifts off to sleep* This is not a problem. 15 mil SP will create a decent character who is skilled up in one suit, one weapon, one sidearm. Why not? A small price to pay for enabling newer players to actually play the game. |
zzZaXxx
Vengeance Unbound
505
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 10:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:zzZaXxx wrote:Regardless of how much you've gotten over time, newbros need help now. They don't have any option but to play with the proto-stompers (us). Until they do CCP's progression system is broken and the gap between rich and poor is not only making the game boring, but killing player retention, and poisoning the NPE. The point is to bring new players up to speed so they can compete on a playing field that, while not flat, would no longer be a steep slope that they have to climb while we're taking potshots at them from on high. Yes, newbies do need help. But what you have proposed here is at best a hastily constructed bandaid solution. The problems of the new player do not begin and end with SP. There are many, many problems, which need a much more complex solution than increasing a single number. I'm not trying to solve every problem. Just this one. The only other problem newer players have besides SP is ISK. The rest are issues we all deal with. As far as creating a whole new NPE, that's for Legion. The kind of jerry-rigging solution I'm suggesting is what's available to us. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
4627
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 11:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nothing will help if people aren't willing to come down from the redline or high ground.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
|
Banjo Robertson
Evzones Public.Disorder.
268
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 12:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Short answer, why should people sho just join get half as much sp as I have for zero effort. Took me over a year to get about 34m sp, sure I took breaks, I know people with 50m+ sp.
And even if people got the SP, they'd still be new to the game and wouldnt know what to do with it or how the gaming meta would work in matches, once you figure out the meta you can do pretty well even with the starter fits. |
CharacterNameWasTaken
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 13:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: You pull 9 mil a year from passive SP, and up to 10 mil SP active if you cap out every day unboosted. If you no-life or use boosters then sure, you'll get a little more than that. For the unboosted, average player, though, 15 mil is well within what could reasonably be expected in a year.
15 mil SP would be an understandable number to have after a year.
Passive SP 1000 SP/hr 24hr/day 24000 SP/day 365 days/yr 8,760,000 SP/year Active SP ~190k/week 52 weeks/year 9,880,000 SP/year Total Unboosted SP ~18,640,000 SP Total Boosted SP (150%) ~27,960,000 SP Pretty much. If you don't boost, 18 mil is the absolutely maximum you pull in a year by capping out every single week. Even though he is still missing all the sp events that ccp gave us you forget the mcc challenge the like 5 tripple sp the 3 5x sp event and im still fogetting a few. |
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo
212
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 13:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
I say get over it, we all got stomped when we started, they can take their beating too.
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Heavy (Amarr & Gallente)
|
Haerr
Legio DXIV
1372
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 14:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:I say get over it, we all got stomped when we started, they can take their beating too. Except a lot of us didn't get stomped because when we started playing everyone had the same level of SP, if you start playing now you are going to run into people who have a ~50-60+ million SP head start. |
punksnowmash
Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V.
11
|
Posted - 2014.09.13 15:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Probably one of the worst ideas I've seen on these fourms. While yes sp progression is slow but some of us have worked hard to get where we are today.
Why should some noob have 15mil starting when in about a year and a couple months I'm only at 20mil. I still find myself fixing things I screwed up when I was a noob, but learned to live with it.
If blueberries need help there's always the learning coalition and immortal guides to help them learn the ropes, not everyone is a bitter vet |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |