400 damage
3x headshot multiplayer
250-300? Meter range

Balenced snipers

250-300 meter range is too severe for my liking.

400 to 500 damage? Breach Mass Drivers don't even get 500 with direct hits. 400 is better than most Mass Drivers.

Do we really want a game with a LCDM stacked weapon that can no scope OHK Logis?

250-300 meter range is too severe for my liking.

LOL

I called this weeks ago..

so you don't want us to have range..

you have been saying for the best part of a year that if we got a range nerf then we "could" look at damage increases to bring them back to useful.

And now that it's happening according to your good folks own requirements..

i'm starting to see "don't give them enough damage to be a real threat"

so which other weapon then uses three or five shots in a clip, requires it's user to crouch down, needs the time to aim down sights in order to hit the side of a building from anything greater than 50m away, has no hip fire capability, no aim assist, no ability to provide close range protection for it's user?

You people are hilarious, and we're supposed to listen to your arguments?
at this rate the sniper rifle will be outperformed by a person using his fists..

oh.. erm
what?
IT ALREADY IS!!

250-300 meter range is too severe for my liking.

If that's max range, that's essentially removing snipers from the game.

sidenote: When changing between sniping and run and gun ground infantry.. I have to change my controller sensitivity.. Meaning the CQC Sniper CCP apparently wants as an option (but not quickscoping) will likely require a different sensitivity setting since the ranges will be very close in comparison to traditional sniping.

The last thing I enjoy doing is in the middle of a match resetting my sensitivity settings so I can tactically respawn into a new suit.. with a not so tactical delay because I was in options menus messing with sliders.

I was posting that 250-300 range was something I totally disagree with.

300 meters is simply too short due to the large amount of counter fire they be susceptible too and have the inability to do anything about it in time.

If that's max range, that's essentially removing snipers from the game.

sidenote: When changing between sniping and run and gun ground infantry.. I have to change my controller sensitivity.. Meaning the CQC Sniper CCP apparently wants as an option (but not quickscoping) will likely require a different sensitivity setting since the ranges will be very close in comparison to traditional sniping.

The last thing I enjoy doing is in the middle of a match resetting my sensitivity settings so I can tactically respawn into a new suit.. with a not so tactical delay because I was in options menus messing with sliders.

I say this a lot in comms, not yet on the forums though.

I don't consider myself the best sniper in Dust 514.

I think at any given time there are a handful of dedicated snipers that are the best.

Each with different strengths and weaknesses, playstyles, and comfort zones.

Closely followed by many players that when it comes to sniping are legitimate threats.

Followed by a great many players who are completely capable of countering snipers into oblivion.


When it comes to quickscoping though. That's not my thing. It's more reflex based.

I feel like what I do is more intuition / patience / knowledge based. It takes skill and timing for both. I'll agree there.

I don't have the reflexes of a 16 year old, so I doubt I could ever be well known for something like that.

I feel like what I do is more intuition / patience / knowledge based. It takes skill and timing for both. I'll agree there.

400 damage
3x headshot multiplayer
250-300? Meter range

Balenced snipers

How about 200m range lol i like 200m rang

Here is what the new sniper rifle mech shud be like.
Faster RoF.
Less zoom.
more damage. (reasonable 400-500hp)
Stand & shoot.

You know it's funny. If you just do the less zoom that would fix everything.

400 damage
3x headshot multiplayer
250-300? Meter range

Balenced snipers

At 200m it's better to have a ScR or RR with a sprint speed of around 7.2 or more so you can choose your distance from engaging the target effectively while sniping it's a completely different story...


In that time you can get counter sniped, forged, RR'd, shotty'd, knifed, ScR'd, smg'd, etc,

You get get the point yet?

Within that range there aren't many positions while have to deal with all the elements of counter fire which means High risk= Low reward

400 damage
3x headshot multiplayer
250-300? Meter range

Balenced snipers

If snipers get down on the battle field, they wud be an eay target due to less target awareness & it takes time to focus on a moving object while crouching. So the snipers shud get more damage & shud be a little more easy to use.

i snipe and i`m trying somethings to be there in the middle of the fire and i`m happy with the results but there is something that i stil coudn`t counter in some form... the cloaked units... they should be banned for good from dust ...

I sincerely pray that the Devs do not take advice about balance from someone who cannot SPELL the word balance.

Holy crap.

If that's max range, that's essentially removing snipers from the game.

sidenote: When changing between sniping and run and gun ground infantry.. I have to change my controller sensitivity.. Meaning the CQC Sniper CCP apparently wants as an option (but not quickscoping) will likely require a different sensitivity setting since the ranges will be very close in comparison to traditional sniping.

The last thing I enjoy doing is in the middle of a match resetting my sensitivity settings so I can tactically respawn into a new suit.. with a not so tactical delay because I was in options menus messing with sliders.

They just don't understand Snake and if they do they just do not want to compromise .

After Delta I'm going strictly commando so whatever happens to the sniper rifle will effect me greatly because that's all I will do is snipe and anti-vehicle , pretty much what I do now ( getting prepared ) but I do mix in some heavy and logi work as well .

Hopefully those who choose to will get some type of skill point refund so I can go strictly commando and commando only .

When this game is over , I would like to be known in the top ten in snipers to go along with you and sym and some of the other well known snipers .

snipers need zoom, better aiming for leading targets at range, for the rendering glitches to be fixed, and a proper reticule.

headshots should be a 1 hit kill in any game period. i dont care what the body damage is. it could heal them for all i care.
if i dont get a headshot i consider it a missed shot. i just need headshots to kill when my reticule is red and the person is not behind some invisible box 400m away. you can aim right at someones head deadcenter while theyre standing still and not kill them because of some stupid crate which is bs. thats a kill shot. you need to die.

you can make it whatever range you want, just fix the glitches and give me real zoom with headshots that terminate clones.

actually forget what i said. thats too much reading.

buy battlefield: bad company 2
play as the recon class with the gol magnum
balance snipers in this game to be just like that.

perfect and literally no one will complain.

[quote=Auris Lionesse]Sniper rifles in Dust are fundamentally broken by being hitscan.

But apparently, doing any kind of meaningful change to the sniper rifles is either impossible within the game engine, or impossible since they aren't releasing any major client updates.

Sniper rifle with bullet drop & travel time was removed in Open Beta, Experimental Sniper Rifle in militia weapon category, so very few players know about it & was using it. Weapon not exist anymore but projectile class for it still there. And it has "explosive" dmg type.
http://www.stuff514.com/sde/type/356927

Maybe CCP can put it back with hotfix like placeholder for Precision (Minmatar) Sniper Rifle or just for fun & lulz, it was very fun shooting & actually kill someone with it

It's just "by design" Rail (Caldari) Sniper Rifles has bullet velocity of 2500m/sec, and max range is 600m. There logically can't be any bullet drop nor travel time. Read the description.

Sniper rifle with bullet drop & travel time was removed in Open Beta, Experimental Sniper Rifle in militia weapon category, so very few players know about it & was using it. Weapon not exist anymore but projectile class for it still there. And it has "explosive" dmg type.
http://www.stuff514.com/sde/type/356927

Maybe CCP can put it back with hotfix like placeholder for Precision (Minmatar) Sniper Rifle or just for fun & lulz, it was very fun shooting & actually kill someone with it

It's just "by design" Rail (Caldari) Sniper Rifles has bullet velocity of 2500m/sec, and max range is 600m. There logically can't be any bullet drop nor travel time. Read the description.

YES. I remember seeing that "[Experimental] Sniper Rifle".
I never used it, because there was nothing to indicate what made it different other than the bracketed Experimental tab.
Was that little trinket really the sniper rifle that we've all been waiting for?

You mind weighing that in to the CPM here?

This is something they should be aware of next meeting they have with CCP. Reintroduce the [Experimental] Sniper Rifle, or at least, introduce its mechanics of operation to all sniper rifles, via hotfix, for at least one month.
Accompany this change with a moderate damage buff.

....and just sit back and see what happens.

I am willing to bet that actual physics + damage would put the sniper rifles where they belong.

If you simply add, the experimental version, no one will use it.

Also I know would make sniping more skill based but you'd probably have every Sniper who ever played turn in HMG toting HVY overnight. Unfortunately I think we gota sleep in the bed we've made and if it tastes like **** well it beats sleeping rough on the floor.

You mind weighing that in to the CPM here?

or at least, introduce its mechanics of operation to all sniper rifles

LOL

I called this weeks ago..

so you don't want us to have range..

you have been saying for the best part of a year that if we got a range nerf then we "could" look at damage increases to bring them back to useful.

And now that it's happening according to your good folks own requirements..

i'm starting to see "don't give them enough damage to be a real threat"

so which other weapon then uses three or five shots in a clip, requires it's user to crouch down, needs the time to aim down sights in order to hit the side of a building from anything greater than 50m away, has no hip fire capability, no aim assist, no ability to provide close range protection for it's user?

You people are hilarious, and we're supposed to listen to your arguments?
at this rate the sniper rifle will be outperformed by a person using his fists..

oh.. erm
what?
IT ALREADY IS!!

Well, if the Experimental is reintroduced, AND an enticing damage buff accompanies it, snipers will get curious.
What makes it different would need to be clearly explained in its description.

If I can almost pull off near Thale's damage with a sniper rifle with proper physics... that's jackpot. A skill-based weapon that rewards you for proper effort and due playing practice.
As for the snipers that decide to switch to heavy if the physics are introduced to sniper rifles globally..... sniper problem solved.

A new large group of useful heavies in one hand, and a small group of skilled snipers (that no one would dare bltch at) in the other.

Win-win scenario.

Why would someone ever use these new snipers when you have a Forge gun to snipe with?

Simply put but bloody accurate.

why oh why would i bother to use a sniper rifle with ballistics that aren't supposed to be there when i could just pick up my forge gun instead?

let's face facts here folks.
dust is not perfect...

1.how would a sniper do his role when it's impossible to tell what degree of lag they are compensating for alongside the "new rifle's ballistics"?

i.e, even with the hitscan in this game you can easily line up a solid headshot on an enemy standing still in the open shoot five times and still not get a hit!
if it wasn't hit scan how many bullets and how much time would it take to realise it was lag instead of poor aim?

2.it's against the lore of the eve universe it's rail tech and that would be the actual ballistics, on top of which a rail gun would do alot more damage than it does in game.

if the minmatar get a sniper rifle then that should get it's ballistics yes, because it would be projectile.

3.forge guns kill vehicles too.

4.snipers in dust cannot go prone to lower their profile

5.if you were willing to add these ballistics then you should also give us ranges in excess of over a thousand meters and ohks.

after all it fine if somebody ohk'd you in your proto gear from over 1km away, because it would of taken skill...

How about if they change the sound profile, particularly on the charged. The sniper sound is so loud and distinctive it makes finding them by sound alone rather easy and they are almost always sitting ducks, sniper locations are also pretty easy to guess. If they can't get the protection of the redline then they need to be harder to locate.

Here is what the new sniper rifle mech shud be like.
Faster RoF.
Less zoom.
more damage. (reasonable 400-500hp)
Stand & shoot.

Yeah, cos nothing makes an FPS more enjoyable than getting OHKed the moment you step outside

Keep the zoom, and damage what they are now and increase headshot multiplier. You don't need a 1 hit kill miniature forge gun to go sniping. If you get a headshot you should be rewarded with a kill otherwise sit around taking potshots for 15 minutes and get nothing for all I care. Need to teach you snipers to learn to get headshots.

I love all these "how to balance snipers" posts from people who obviously don't snipe, they're hilarious.

400m effective, still 600m absolute, with heavy fall off between the two. Going with Tychus' numbers for dmg boost and hs multplier, seems about right.

And for snake n symb, didn't I call this bs when I told you guys about the delta thread?

Sniping in my mind is a support role so I don't see what is wrong with forcing snipers to leave the red line, I do it anyways, it's completely viable as long as your team isn't god awful and a god awful team kills all roles except snipers right now. Here's my rationale, do snipers expect logis to be good one man slayers? They used to be, but they aren't now, and from anyone ive spoken to that is working as intended since the logi is a support role and not an assault suit. A sniper just like a tank now, when balanced, is untouchable behind good team support but absolutely vulnerable when alone.

Cloaks are getting a nerf in Delta as well to where there will be a delay on when they can fire after decloaking. If you listen for the de-cloaking noise you can react in time although, right now it usually means you die anyways to a knifer or shotgun. However, with the coming nerf a cloak that decloaks right behind you will be dead in the water for some precious moments that will allow you to spray their low hp down. You have to look at what Delta is bringing as a whole. A lot of bad play goes back to poor matchmaking and poor awareness. When it isn't poor matchmaking or poor awareness, IE. a Thales sniper on a terrible team killing with impunity in their red line on the objective/s or a cloaked scout sprinting about bunny hop shotgunning before their cloak wears off, these are balance issues.

The things that were out of a players control like the cloaker shotgunning before the noise even makes a sound right behind you or the sniper hiding deep in the red line beyond reproach (Even at times head glitching to stop even counter sniping) that is what Delta is trying to fix.

When I counter snipe I usually can't even worry about the objective because I am wasting time hunting down the thales/charged ******* in the back of their red line causing massive damage because some maps allow this. I don't even worry on maps where the red line doesn't help, but on the few it does, it's absolutely broken. When I snipe, I move as close to my team as I can on the objective while keeping around a 200-300m gap between me and the enemy. If I'm behind my team they aren't going to rush me, working as intended. If they are all over the objective and my team can't take it, I'm not sniping, why? Because, I have now become the burden to my team that everyone hates when they see snipers. I'm now killing clones when it won't matter because our MCC is going to explode.

The only time I red line snipe is when the enemy has pushed to our red line. And guess what? A range nerf on the sniper won't stop me from red line sniping when the enemy is on our red line so it won't hurt the only time in which it isn't scummy to red line snipe.

Tanks in 1.7 went through the same bitching when they lost their ability to tank 8 AV. Logis went through the same thing when they lost their Slayer potential. Snipers are now bitching when they won't be able to cover the objective/s from their red line. Bias people hate balance when it will take away their imbalanced aspect. Unbiased people who care about the state of the game understand when something is broken and understand why it must be changed.

The fact that players didn't vary their builds so that they can transition into many different roles at any given time in a battle based on what actually works and instead bash their head into a wall forcing a bad tactic to be good or giving up and isk farming is exactly why balance has taken over a year to be addressed properly.

As to what I think should work for snipers:

Tactical Sniper:
Significantly reduce weapon sway for quick scoping.
Keep circular sight.
Reduce Optimal Range to 0-300m
Increase damage by 25
Increase magazine to 5

Standard/Specialist SR:
Add the Dot sight back
Reduce Optimal Range to 0-400m
Increase damage by 50
Decrease magazine to 4

Charged/Thales:
Add the Dot sight back
Reduce Optimal range to 0-400m
Slightly Reduce Thales zoom to be more practical in the new optimal
Increase damage by 75
Decrease Charged magazine to 3

All sniper rifles:
Increase head shot bonus. I'm not sure how much, but in my mind, increase it to something that will make only the most brick tanked heavies survive the head shot from a Thales/charged without damage mods. With damage mods, maybe it will be possible to kill brick tanked proto bears, however brick tanked proto bears shouldn't be hobbling about in the open anyways as even a RR will down a proto bear out in the open. Their ****** should either be in CQC or be in a LAV/Dropship.