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DDx77 Legacy of Kain 0	Posted - 2014.09.03 16:38:00 - [1] - Quote At least in almost every match I see it deployed. I am not asking for any kind of nerf ( nerfing has been ruining this game) but I'd like to add suggestions to improve some gameplay if possible. I didn't spec into one but it looks like Pilots have infinite ammo of a one shot splash damage weapon that can just hover over anything and kill it. Maybe changing that is all that is needed? A limited ammo count for Missles and Rails? ( This should include those annoying missle tanks) Having infinite ammo just seems like lazy game design, it makes no sense in this game We have two options to deal with them forge guns and Swarms correct? My beef is mainly with Swarms as Forge gunners could probably use a bit more range but are generally decent AV & before you say swarms - they are terrible. Waiting for a lock while this thing is either shooting at me or flying around too fast or high up to even get a lock? And they don't do enough damage anyway, I have to hit an ADS two or three times just to get it to retreat. Yes I am using mil swarms but I have three damg mods on this fit 2 complex, 1 enhanced. Lock on range should be vastly increased...orrrrr (wait for it) why not have the option to lock on AND fire manually? & yes if we have multiple clones with swarms you MAY be able to kill one. To this I say so I need two or three guys with AV not attacking and not capturing points to deal with one vehicle? I supposed the answer is " Yes that's the way you kill a dropship" but it just seem a boring way to play which is why you don't see many squads doing it. The alternative is perhaps just using a Commando fit but that seems too limiting. I would suggest allowing swarms to be a sidearm weapon or a sidearm AV variant. The best way to deal with one it seems is to have an Assault Dropship yourself. This is just seems counter-intuitive to the game. Why should I grind 2mil SP just to kill one guy/dropship? Instead of grinding for two+ months we need Militia Assault dropships. It takes actual skill to pilot a dropship well. It takes no skill to shoot a missle somewhere near a player to kill them. Give everyone to option to have this weapon....or are you afraid that because it is so grossly imbalanced that this will ruin the game? That's it. I see ADS dominating matches. It used to be tanks ( still kinda is) but it looks like the people that got sick of tanks being dominant spec'd into ADS to kill them. Now they are killing everything and with all this kool technology in the EVE universe it is kinda embarrassing that there are still only two mediocre AV options.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1468	Posted - 2014.09.03 16:53:00 - [2] - Quote Just reading now, first fallacy: we do not have infinite ammo, haven't for a long time. We may have a lot, but, that requires decent chunk of SP (about 3.5 mil just on the two skills, not including the pre-req skills). If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
TechMechMeds KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 5430	Posted - 2014.09.03 16:57:00 - [3] - Quote Only has to push triangle to check anything he wants in the game. Instead assumes stuff and comes on the forums to share his assumptions with us. My hometown beat Manchester united. Git gud man utd. 4-0
Atiim 11825	Posted - 2014.09.03 16:58:00 - [4] - Quote Assault Dropships will be dealt with in Hotfix Bravo. Keep your head high 'till then my friend. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1378	Posted - 2014.09.03 17:01:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: Assault Dropships will be dealt with in Hotfix Bravo. Keep your head high 'till then my friend. Are we time traveling? We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1468	Posted - 2014.09.03 17:04:00 - [6] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Atiim wrote: Assault Dropships will be dealt with in Hotfix Bravo. Keep your head high 'till then my friend. Are we time traveling? Atiim is magical. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1378	Posted - 2014.09.03 17:19:00 - [7] - Quote Honestly vehicles aren't usually a problem on their own; it's either a combination of vehicle + their team being better than yours which keeps AV in check so the vehicle has free reign or it's multiple vehicles tag teaming so when one takes enough damage to flee the other one(s) hop in its place. As for the FG, it doesn't need more range, 300 meters is plenty. What it does need though is for the charge times to be reduced. It's fcking ridiculous that a small missile turret can kill a sentinel in the time it takes the regular FG to charge a single shot and that's not just because of the skill stacking bug ADS' have. ResistanceGTA wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Atiim wrote: Assault Dropships will be dealt with in Hotfix Bravo. Keep your head high 'till then my friend. Are we time traveling? Atiim is magical. I knew it! Atiim, how much would it cost for you to craft me a module of +10 fall damage resistance? We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 546	Posted - 2014.09.03 17:33:00 - [8] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: It's fcking ridiculous that a small missile turret can kill a sentinel in the time it takes the regular FG to charge a single shot What suit you running that does this? I can survive several blasts. Also: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun > everything else If you're using the regular forge you're doing it wrong.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 715	Posted - 2014.09.03 17:51:00 - [9] - Quote Dust User wrote: Also: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun > everything else With my vehicle alt I enjoy hovering my Myron in front of lone forgegunners and eat their whole clip without twitching. 8000 ehp. Just to show'em what's up. (Works most of the time. ) @OP: An ADS will generally have to flee as soon as any sort of AV above MLT level comes into play. If you are really super-annoyed with a particular ADS, switch to a commando suit with a STD SL. That will be enough to keep the ADS away from you. If anyone else chips in the dropship will go down quickly.
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1378	Posted - 2014.09.03 17:52:00 - [10] - Quote Dust User wrote: Thumb Green wrote: It's fcking ridiculous that a small missile turret can kill a sentinel in the time it takes the regular FG to charge a single shot What suit you running that does this? I can survive several blasts. Also: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun > everything else If you're using the regular forge you're doing it wrong. I use the Amarr, I use mostly reps on it to keep it light so it's easier to avoid direct hits as well as to rep up quickly so I'm not just a sitting duck with low health; AV with extremely poor mobility dies quicker than AV with just poor mobility. I do use the IAFG but that's irrelevant to the point that small missiles can kill a sentinel in the time it takes for the regular FG to charge. Some people don't like the AFG and I don't blame them; getting the timing right on an evasive ADS can be quite hard with the AFG. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing

Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1981	Posted - 2014.09.03 18:05:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: Assault Dropships will be dealt with in Hotfix Delta Keep your head high 'till then my friend. There's nothing to be dealt with. The balance is fine. Want to fend off an ADS? Use AV. Don't expect a single AVer to reliable kill an ADS. Want to reliably kill an ADS? Use teamwork, it's OP. Imagine if a single AVer could easily kill ADSs. Now add another, and another. That would make AV completely OP. (And before you counter, multiple ADSs are usually more of a threat to themselves and a hinderance to their team than compounding their effectiveness). Take forges for example: a single skilled forge gunner can easily down virtually any ADS within one clip (or about 7.5 seconds). Now, with some fancy flying and a bit of luck, I can usually take one forge myself, but add another and it's far more difficult. Now imagine 2 swarmers have it guaranteed that all 3 shots will hit (since currently, and under typical battle scenarios, you're guaranteed 2 swarm hits, increasing this would inevitably lead to 3 guaranteed hits). That's 6 volleys of missiles that are GUARANTEED to connect. With the forge, it at least takes some skill to land blows, swarms are just fire and forget. The only rebalance I would accept as fair would be an increase in AB cool down time from 10/10/10sec to 25/20/15sec.
rithu Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 114	Posted - 2014.09.03 18:08:00 - [12] - Quote meh, It only takes 2 full round of my proto swarms to kill an ads. Most of the time i ll have help, so will kill shoot one full round before he can hit the burners.
Atiim 11828	Posted - 2014.09.03 18:28:00 - [13] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Atiim wrote: Assault Dropships will be dealt with in Hotfix Delta Keep your head high 'till then my friend. There's nothing to be dealt with. The balance is fine. Want to fend off an ADS? Use AV. Don't expect a single AVer to reliable kill an ADS. Then why would I even bother using AV if he's guaranteed to escape? Want to reliably kill an ADS? Use teamwork, it's OP. Imagine if a single AVer could easily kill ADSs. Now add another, and another. That would make AV completely OP. (And before you counter, multiple ADSs are usually more of a threat to themselves and a hinderance to their team than compounding their effectiveness). This paragraph right here is extremely biased. First off, you can't use 2/3v1 scenarios when balancing an item, because it assumes that there will always be a single unit against 2/3 of it's counters, which is unrealistic. Not only that, but requiring more resources than what you've fieldied (1 player) to destroy another player automatically makes that item superior, thus negating the point of using the other item. Basically, why would I use Y if 1x GëÑ 2y? Though what you said about multipule ADSs is not false (to an extent). 2 ADSs can easily destroy an entire team if they're good, and in open areas (which is a good amount of the maps in DUST) they're in no way a hinderance to anyone other than the enemy team. Multiple AV units on the other hand, reduce the Anti-Infantry capabilities of your team, as well as the ability to hack/push objectives; all of which are deciding factors in whether or not a team will win the match. Take forges for example: a single skilled forge gunner can easily down virtually any ADS within one clip (or about 7.5 seconds). Now, with some fancy flying and a bit of luck, I can usually take one forge myself, but add another and it's far more difficult. [i]And any ADS with an Afterburner can easily escape before 7.2s (Incubi in 4s, Pythons in 2.6s). Honestly if you're dumb enough to stand there for 7.5s you deserve to die The only rebalance I would accept as fair would be an increase in AB cool down time from 10/10/10sec to 25/20/15sec. So basically a 5s increase in the Afterburner? That's won't suffice. You and I both know that your ADSs will be getting nerfed in Delta, so I'd get in as much fun as you still can. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Atiim 11828	Posted - 2014.09.03 18:29:00 - [14] - Quote rithu wrote: meh, It only takes 2 full round of my proto swarms to kill an ads. Most of the time i ll have help, so will kill shoot one full round before he can hit the burners. Rounds or Clips? I've theroycrafted the Swarm Launcher's TTK with just about every HAV/ADS build out there, and not a single one can be 2HK'd by even a maxed Swarm Launcher. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4722	Posted - 2014.09.03 18:41:00 - [15] - Quote rithu wrote: meh, It only takes 2 full round of my proto swarms to kill an ads. Most of the time i ll have help, so will kill shoot one full round before he can hit the burners. You must mean two full clips of Proto Swarms. Two rounds won't wreck a LAV. @ OP If you want to pose a meaningful threat to dropships, spec into Forge Guns. Do not waste your SP on Swarms. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 549	Posted - 2014.09.03 18:54:00 - [16] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Dust User wrote: Thumb Green wrote: It's fcking ridiculous that a small missile turret can kill a sentinel in the time it takes the regular FG to charge a single shot What suit you running that does this? I can survive several blasts. Also: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun > everything else If you're using the regular forge you're doing it wrong. I use the Amarr, I use mostly reps on it to keep it light so it's easier to avoid direct hits as well as to rep up quickly so I'm not just a sitting duck with low health; AV with extremely poor mobility dies quicker than AV with just poor mobility. I do use the IAFG but that's irrelevant to the point that small missiles can kill a sentinel in the time it takes for the regular FG to charge. Some people don't like the AFG and I don't blame them; getting the timing right on an evasive ADS can be quite hard with the AFG. Using Amarr to forge is your first mistake. Caldari is where it's at. If you land the first shot it will knock the ADS around giving you time to land the second shot before he can adjust to hit you again. I rarely lose 1v1 encounters to an ADS unless I miss that first shot. If you're having trouble hitting them with the AFG the only thing I can tell you is practice makes perfect.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1981	Posted - 2014.09.03 18:55:00 - [17] - Quote Atiim wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Atiim wrote: Assault Dropships will be dealt with in Hotfix Delta Keep your head high 'till then my friend. There's nothing to be dealt with. The balance is fine. Want to fend off an ADS? Use AV. Don't expect a single AVer to reliable kill an ADS. Then why would I even bother using AV if he's guaranteed to escape? Because by driving him away, you're taking him out of the battle for a time. Don't be so myopic. Want to reliably kill an ADS? Use teamwork, it's OP. Imagine if a single AVer could easily kill ADSs. Now add another, and another. That would make AV completely OP. (And before you counter, multiple ADSs are usually more of a threat to themselves and a hinderance to their team than compounding their effectiveness). This paragraph right here is extremely biased. Basically, why would I use Y if 1x GëÑ 2y? Though what you said about multipule ADSs is not false (to an extent). 2 ADSs can easily destroy an entire team if they're good, and in open areas (which is a good amount of the maps in DUST) they're in no way a hinderance to anyone other than the enemy team. Multiple AV units on the other hand, reduce the Anti-Infantry capabilities of your team, as well as the ability to hack/push objectives; all of which are deciding factors in whether or not a team will win the match.[/i] If you mean that I find it unfair that my +500k proto ADS can now be easily be killed (with no hope of escape or retaliation) by 2-3 <50k suits that I may never see, hear, or know about before hand, if that's what you call biased, then yeah, it's biased. What it actually is is an accurate description of what you and other swarmers want. If I am wrong, then stop being vague and tell me what you actually want, I've said what I want. I have already said what should happen when you are a solo AVer: the dropships has either the ability to flee or if he stays, dies. That is the current reality of EVERY viable solo AV set up: either the ADS retreats, fights and kills it, or dies. Swarms are no different from forges in this respect. With more AVers working together, they have a higher chance of killing an ADS, even if one of them are killed. But what you want is a single AVer to RELIABLY KILL and ADS, and I said that that will be unbalanced if multiple AVers work together. As for reduction to AI, your trading countering vehicles for countering infantry, and since the enemy vehicles cannot operate fully, they are now a reduction to the enemies AI potential, as well, and as an Infantry with a side arm, you have more AI potential than a tank in the redline or ADS high in the sky. Besides, if you're a commando you can just use another light weapon, so that point doesn't really hold well. Take forges for example: a single skilled forge gunner can easily down virtually any ADS within one clip (or about 7.5 seconds). Now, with some fancy flying and a bit of luck, I can usually take one forge myself, but add another and it's far more difficult. And any ADS with an Afterburner can easily escape before 7.2s (Incubi in 4s, Pythons in 2.6s). Honestly if you're dumb enough to stand there for 7.5s you deserve to die You're ignoring the fact that the first hit is shot and second shot is charging before the pilot has time to react, activate mods, and accelerate to full speed. What you're suggesting is that a full speed ADS is flying over the head of the forge and the forge is trying to shoot it. Realistically, a forge should have not trouble getting off at least 3 shots on a preoccupied ADS that has a decent reaction time and flees immediately. This accomplishes the goal of a solo AVer to drive off vehicles, but since the forge actually takes skill to aim and fire, it has the bonus of being more reliable in actually killing them. The only rebalance I would accept as fair would be an increase in AB cool down time from 10/10/10sec to 25/20/15sec. So basically a 5s increase in the Afterburner? That's won't suffice. You and I both know that your ADSs will be getting nerfed in Delta, so I'd get in as much fun as you still can. My responses in bold.
Derrith Erador 2553	Posted - 2014.09.03 19:03:00 - [18] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Dust User wrote: Thumb Green wrote: It's fcking ridiculous that a small missile turret can kill a sentinel in the time it takes the regular FG to charge a single shot What suit you running that does this? I can survive several blasts. Also: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun > everything else If you're using the regular forge you're doing it wrong. I use the Amarr, I use mostly reps on it to keep it light so it's easier to avoid direct hits as well as to rep up quickly so I'm not just a sitting duck with low health; AV with extremely poor mobility dies quicker than AV with just poor mobility. I do use the IAFG but that's irrelevant to the point that small missiles can kill a sentinel in the time it takes for the regular FG to charge. Some people don't like the AFG and I don't blame them; getting the timing right on an evasive ADS can be quite hard with the AFG. First off, let's explain everything wrong with using an Amarrican suit as a forge. It is armor based, so it's only natural I'm going to have my way with you as a rocket ADS. Second, I specced at least 15-20 mil SP into this, that includes ROF, which I skilled into wholeheartedly. Third, some pilots miss, you have to put into account some people are just good at what they do. Forth, it takes six to eight shots average to kill a sentinel. I don't see what you're complaining about. Fifth, ADS pilots are supposed to use evasion tactics, most novice pilots sit there and hover when fighting AV and that is the dumbest mistake you could make. If flying about like a drunk hillbilly causes you to miss a few shots yourself, but causes him to miss a few, then so be it. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1981	Posted - 2014.09.03 19:09:00 - [19] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Dust User wrote: Thumb Green wrote: It's fcking ridiculous that a small missile turret can kill a sentinel in the time it takes the regular FG to charge a single shot What suit you running that does this? I can survive several blasts. Also: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun > everything else If you're using the regular forge you're doing it wrong. I use the Amarr, I use mostly reps on it to keep it light so it's easier to avoid direct hits as well as to rep up quickly so I'm not just a sitting duck with low health; AV with extremely poor mobility dies quicker than AV with just poor mobility. I do use the IAFG but that's irrelevant to the point that small missiles can kill a sentinel in the time it takes for the regular FG to charge. Some people don't like the AFG and I don't blame them; getting the timing right on an evasive ADS can be quite hard with the AFG. First off, let's explain everything wrong with using an Amarrican suit as a forge. It is armor based, so it's only natural I'm going to have my way with you as a rocket ADS. Second, I specced at least 15-20 mil SP into this, that includes ROF, which I skilled into wholeheartedly. Third, some pilots miss, you have to put into account some people are just good at what they do. Forth, it takes six to eight shots average to kill a sentinel. I don't see what you're complaining about. Fifth, ADS pilots are supposed to use evasion tactics, most novice pilots sit there and hover when fighting AV and that is the dumbest mistake you could make. If flying about like a drunk hillbilly causes you to miss a few shots yourself, but causes him to miss a few, then so be it. Another reason is because some pilots (myself especially) will make several passes to kill a forge if they seem skilled. This is because my health regens far faster than yours does, so I can get 2 shots off, fly away, come back for another two shots or so, retreat, and then finish you off. This is why I prefer a rep-tanked Cal when I forge, because the repair rate is just about the same (i.e. I usually repair shields before the ADS comes back). Not to mention you're more resistant to damage and more agile if you need to move. EDIT: And before someone replies and calls this OP, let me assure you it's not. First, it takes a ton of time to kill even a single forger this way. Second, incredibly dangerous, putting myself in the line of fire repeatedly. Third, it's incredibly predictable, making it even more dangerous. Third, it doesn't work nearly as well on Cal sents, as I explained above. And fourth, it take a fair amount of piloting skill to do right and effectively.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2085	Posted - 2014.09.03 19:37:00 - [20] - Quote DDx77 wrote: ADS appears dominate Your statement humorously feeds my inner anthropologist. Well said, thank you. A lot of good people tried figuring out options for the whole vehicles issue last year. When December came around all we got was a vast one-sided shift in the game. CCP listens to destructive complaints while dismissing thoughtful discourse. The salt in the wound is one Dev had stated in these forums they were going to be more careful with nerfing. Although things have improved this year in comparison. Now the biggest problem seems to be ignoring issues. In conclusion don't bother trying to help. Odds are any specifics you share will be ignored. What you can do is register complaints. If enough people complain continuously something will eventually be done. I'm sorry for being so negative but these observations are based on CCPs behavior since Closed Beta. Pragmatism > Idealism Likes are my candy and in these forums every day is Halloween. XD Sweets for everyone! Forums > Game

David Mustane D3M3NT3D M1NDZ 68	Posted - 2014.09.03 19:40:00 - [21] - Quote lower the ceiling, ads should not be allowed to use that as a means to grief as they do now.
DDx77 Legacy of Kain 3	Posted - 2014.09.03 20:13:00 - [22] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Just reading now, first fallacy: we do not have infinite ammo, haven't for a long time. We may have a lot, but, that requires a decent chunk of SP (about 3.5 mil just on the two skills, not including the pre-req skills). Using Militia Swarms to kill an ADS.. That's on you dude. You're handicapping yourself, at least get Basic, its super cheap. "Oh look, an ADS pilot defending his crutch," you may be saying to yourself. I have Prof. 4 Swarms, Auxillary Swarm skills to 4, Minmando to 5, Prof 3 Forge, I'm pretty big into AV, more points into it than my ADS (well, probably not anymore). Swarms are actually very good against ADSs if you approach the fight correctly. Also, Swarms still have horrible rendering. I'll shoot swarms, but my buddies standing right next to me won't see my Swarms flying. When I fly, I'd say only about half the swarms that hit me render at all. That's just a random guess, I haven't been keeping track of rendering/non-rendering swarms as of late... Apologies for not pressing triangle to see that there are ammo limitations ( Thank you TechMechMeds you **** ) I still don't see a huge difference in basic or militia swarms on paper. Almost same damage and rockets fired. Spec'ing into swarms & prof is exactly what I would like to avoid simply (selfishly) b/c I have other things I'd like to put SP into. I don't think AV should be an after thought, I just think it needs to be more versatile. The majority of matches that I have been in that were crushing losses or wins ( the enemy or our MCC had almost no damage ) there was a ADS patrolling all corners of the map with many kills for that pilot. Yes definitely a very good pilot working with a very good squad. When I luck out and get in a squad or match and we have an ADS I notice we cruise to a win. It just makes the match very boring and I think the ADS has a lot to do with it. I'm not the only one who feels this way but I'd like to add things to the game rather than take away or nerf it if possible.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1102	Posted - 2014.09.03 20:47:00 - [23] - Quote That ADS rules the sky because guys don't run decent AV and/or protect the guy run decent AV. If you don't want to run it yourself watch out for the guy shooting swarms with his eyes up in the the air and don't let him be a free kill for any passing infantry. Because, that's why.
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1380	Posted - 2014.09.03 21:26:00 - [24] - Quote Dust User wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Dust User wrote: Thumb Green wrote: It's fcking ridiculous that a small missile turret can kill a sentinel in the time it takes the regular FG to charge a single shot What suit you running that does this? I can survive several blasts. Also: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun > everything else If you're using the regular forge you're doing it wrong. I use the Amarr, I use mostly reps on it to keep it light so it's easier to avoid direct hits as well as to rep up quickly so I'm not just a sitting duck with low health; AV with extremely poor mobility dies quicker than AV with just poor mobility. I do use the IAFG but that's irrelevant to the point that small missiles can kill a sentinel in the time it takes for the regular FG to charge. Some people don't like the AFG and I don't blame them; getting the timing right on an evasive ADS can be quite hard with the AFG. Using Amarr to forge is your first mistake. Caldari is where it's at. If you land the first shot it will knock the ADS around giving you time to land the second shot before he can adjust to hit you again. I rarely lose 1v1 encounters to an ADS unless I miss that first shot. If you're having trouble hitting them with the AFG the only thing I can tell you is practice makes perfect. When I skilled into it Amarr was the half-way between AV and AI. It still works well enough and I've got other SP priorities besides completely skilling into a new dropsuit tree. Talk all the smack you want to (it's about all KeQ is good for) but if you think it's easy to hit evasive ADS' with the AFG then you haven't shot at an evasive ADS. I've been doing this for about a year now so don't talk to me about practice. Still all of what you said is irrelevant to the point I made. If you're not going to address the point I made then why are you even arguing with me? We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Derrith Erador 2554	Posted - 2014.09.03 21:33:00 - [25] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Dust User wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Dust User wrote: Thumb Green wrote: It's fcking ridiculous that a small missile turret can kill a sentinel in the time it takes the regular FG to charge a single shot What suit you running that does this? I can survive several blasts. Also: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun > everything else If you're using the regular forge you're doing it wrong. I use the Amarr, I use mostly reps on it to keep it light so it's easier to avoid direct hits as well as to rep up quickly so I'm not just a sitting duck with low health; AV with extremely poor mobility dies quicker than AV with just poor mobility. I do use the IAFG but that's irrelevant to the point that small missiles can kill a sentinel in the time it takes for the regular FG to charge. Some people don't like the AFG and I don't blame them; getting the timing right on an evasive ADS can be quite hard with the AFG. Using Amarr to forge is your first mistake. Caldari is where it's at. If you land the first shot it will knock the ADS around giving you time to land the second shot before he can adjust to hit you again. I rarely lose 1v1 encounters to an ADS unless I miss that first shot. If you're having trouble hitting them with the AFG the only thing I can tell you is practice makes perfect. When I skilled into it Amarr was the half-way between AV and AI. It still works well enough and I've got other SP priorities besides completely skilling into a new dropsuit tree. Talk all the smack you want to (it's about all KeQ is good for) but if you think it's easy to hit evasive ADS' with the AFG then you haven't shot at an evasive ADS. I've been doing this for about a year now so don't talk to me about practice. Still all of what you said is irrelevant to the point I made. If you're not going to address the point I made then why are you even arguing with me? Actually, of all the forgers in dust, Dust User is one of three I'm scared to face solo. Himself, Funkmaster Whale, and Senator Snipe are hands down the most accurate forgers I've seen, and they all use AFG's (along with Cal sentinels), and have rarely missed me, I actually have to use cover and buildings to take them on, they're the forgers I learned the hard way to use buildings as cover. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1380	Posted - 2014.09.03 21:37:00 - [26] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Want to fend off an ADS? Use AV. Don't expect a single AVer to reliable kill an ADS. Want to reliably kill an ADS? Use teamwork, it's OP. That's some straight up "Teamwork for thee but not for me" bullsh!t. I can admit it was a realistic view for tanks when they used it but it didn't work for game balance; for aircraft however, it just flat out doesn't work. Nothing in this game should require teamwork to reliably kill one person, least of all aircraft. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1380	Posted - 2014.09.03 21:43:00 - [27] - Quote Whatever, I'm not going to argue with you when can't even comprehend what I said. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1986	Posted - 2014.09.03 22:47:00 - [28] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Want to fend off an ADS? Use AV. Don't expect a single AVer to reliable kill an ADS. Want to reliably kill an ADS? Use teamwork, it's OP. That's some straight up "Teamwork for thee but not for me" bullsh!t. I can admit it was a realistic view for tanks when they used it but it didn't work for game balance; for aircraft however, it just flat out doesn't work. Nothing in this game should require teamwork to reliably kill one person, least of all aircraft. Again, myopic. You're only thinking, "If I can't kill it, I'm useless." You don't see that fending off or occupying dropship's is just as useful and not imbalanced either way. You're not powerless against me! In fact, you're so disruptive and threatening that you go straight to my #1 on my "threats to deal with" list whenever I see you. Currently, one ADV swarmer can disrupt and damage a dropship enough to force it to fly away and/or fight the AVer. Both of these pull the ADS away from actually fighting and essentially make it useless to the team for the moment. Now put yourself in my shoes. Why the hell would I bring out a half a mill ISK vehicle if 1 swarmer, 1 <75k suit, stood a very likely chance of killing me every time I got in range? And God forbid there were 2 of them or a forge! AND THIS IS NOT TO SAY I'M AGAINST SOME NERFS! I have said above that I'm for an AB cooldown nerf. They are too potent across the board, I agree. I'm also willing to have a moderate missile splash-damage nerf as to make ADSs less effective against infantry (keep direct damage though for anti-vehicle). But as far as AV/ADS symbiosis, it's about as balanced as it can get right now.
Derrith Erador 2554	Posted - 2014.09.03 23:04:00 - [29] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Whatever, I'm not going to argue with you when can't even comprehend what I said. I'm going to assume you're talking to Vulpses on this issue, but I'll respond anyway. 1) I perfectly comprehend what you're saying, you're saying that it's hard for forges to hit an ADS. It's supposed to be that way, we're supposed to make it that way. Do you shoot bullets at random reds and expect them to stand still and NOT try to evade your shots? It's the same principle, you wouldn't want to die from bullets, so you'd strafe, or take cover. Just because you said it's hard doesn't mean I'm obligated to make it easy. 2) On the teamwork issue, as I see it, you run a sentinel suit, more than likely running an HMG on this suit, correct? If so, have you ever seen a medium frame come at you in a CQC engagement, and you completely mowed him down? Most people I know who heavy with HMG would call this medium frame an idiot, and rightly so, TBH. But what if he brought a friend to flank you in another medium suit? You'd have two people to worry about at that stage, thus evening the odds seeing as you're a fat kid. 3) I've fought you in a pub against your forge suit, don't take this the wrong way when I say this. You're not a bad forger, but the above mentioned forgers I've talked about are on a whole other level than you, they're far more accurate than you were. Again, don't take this the wrong way. You've also failed to take personal skill into account on this endeavor, I've killed multiple forges solo because they failed to react properly to my evasions, why should we be more forgiving to them? The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1986	Posted - 2014.09.03 23:24:00 - [30] - Quote Why does everyone get my name wrong?



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