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medomai grey
WarRavens
933
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Posted - 2014.08.29 06:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:medomai grey wrote:I could abuse this.
How so? I'm not in any sense saying this idea is good, please feel free to disillusion me. "redline a complete safe zoneGǪno firing in or out" -Zatara Rought
This could be abused in combat near redlines. Although a person in redline could not kill anyone, they themselves are un-killable. This could lead to drawn out engagements near the redline as players bob in and out of the redline to prevent themselves from dying.
"I predicated this idea upon matches where you -are- redlined either initiate a window for you to capture an objective or lose the match that is tied to the redline timer, or when redlined it just speeds up the damage done to the MCC so the battle ends quickerGǪsimilar to battlefield tickets winding down faster in a similar losing effort in BF." -Zatara Rought
I like this idea though.
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4022
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Posted - 2014.08.29 07:15:00 -
[32] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:
This could be abused in combat near redlines. Although a person in redline could not kill anyone, they themselves are un-killable. This could lead to drawn out engagements near the redline as players bob in and out of the redline to prevent themselves from dying.
I like this idea though.
Zatara Rought wrote:But I like the idea of just reducing damage as well.
Which is why I really think this is so good.
Just reduce damage instead of completely nullifying it.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
408
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Posted - 2014.08.29 11:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
All of the proposed "solutions" here address a whole lot more than needed. The only true problem people have with the redline is sniping. The most simple solution to this would be to cancel any reward (WP, LP and/or ISK) for any kill made with the sniper rifle while inside the friendly redline. This would strongly discourage redline sniping, while still making it possible.
However, I still do not agree that even such a mechanic should be implemented without a complete rethink of the maps, sniper rifles and sniping as a role in DUST. Anyone who had experience in sniping will confirm that some of the best sniping spots on several maps are in the redline. Moreover, the most "appropriate" suits for sniping are currently Cal commandos, which lack a quality that snipers outside of redline will surely require, and that is stealth. Contrary to what most anti-sniper forum warriors think, snipers outside of redline are very easily located, and even more easily dispatched (unless they use DS to get to a location inaccessible on foot).
If redline sniping is removed (one way or the other), and nothing else is changed with regard to sniping, the role will become even more useless than it currently is.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
669
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Posted - 2014.08.29 12:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
iliel wrote:Add a countdown timer in ally redline for players to leave it - - otherwise kick 'em from the battle. Make the countdown something like 30 seconds. While this won't fix redline snipers, it'll help. i would propose that there is no redline timer in effect till after the 2nd minute the game has been in play, this will ease the vehicle spawning rush at the start of the game.. and THEN it will have the 30 second timer BUT any dropped equipment should also be effected by the timer aswell to stop people placing down their hives and uplinks in the MCC(annoyign as all F) or placing them down to get into sniperspots
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
669
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Posted - 2014.08.29 12:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
George Moros wrote:All of the proposed "solutions" here address a whole lot more than needed. The only true problem people have with the redline is sniping. The most simple solution to this would be to cancel any reward (WP, LP and/or ISK) for any kill made with the sniper rifle while inside the friendly redline. This would strongly discourage redline sniping, while still making it possible.
However, I still do not agree that even such a mechanic should be implemented without a complete rethink of the maps, sniper rifles and sniping as a role in DUST. Anyone who had experience in sniping will confirm that some of the best sniping spots on several maps are in the redline. Moreover, the most "appropriate" suits for sniping are currently Cal commandos, which lack a quality that snipers outside of redline will surely require, and that is stealth. Contrary to what most anti-sniper forum warriors think, snipers outside of redline are very easily located, and even more easily dispatched (unless they use DS to get to a location inaccessible on foot).
If redline sniping is removed (one way or the other), and nothing else is changed with regard to sniping, the role will become even more useless than it currently is. CPM already feel the Thales zoom is OP and needs to be addressed, but your suggestion of no wp/lp/isk reward for kills made from the redline seems a nominal idea but players who dont care about such things will just continue to "farm tears" from the redline regardless as they probably have 30m isk+ anyway
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
408
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Posted - 2014.08.29 12:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote: CPM already feel the Thales zoom is OP and needs to be addressed, but your suggestion of no wp/lp/isk reward for kills made from the redline seems a nominal idea but players who dont care about such things will just continue to "farm tears" from the redline regardless as they probably have 30m isk+ anyway
Well, I wouldn't have a problem with the fact that someone is deliberately risking his Thale's (however low that risk may be), just to publicly announce "I'm an *******". :D
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
357
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Posted - 2014.08.29 14:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
How about simply making it so your MCC takes more damage per person in the redzone... While backing it up with a bonus armour/shield rep while in there to help teams that are squished back into the game... Add to this the no warpoints that has been mentioned & you've got a little something for everyone.
-A boost to help people get back out of the redzone -A bonus for kicking the other teams arse -& a way to stop redzone camping for points. |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1354
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Posted - 2014.08.30 00:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
iliel wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:iliel wrote:Add a countdown timer in ally redline for players to leave it - - otherwise kick 'em from the battle. Make the countdown something like 30 seconds. While this won't fix redline snipers, it'll help. Ah isn't this cute? Another lame FPS player that is unable to function in New Eden? This topic has been raised so many times there is no number in forum history that can actually represent it anymore. The red line is their solution to not having safe spawn points, it is different. Which is why you don't like it, one might hazard a guess. Lol, this only suggests that the first statment applies to you. Why have a redline at all? I'm fine removing it entirely. Nice try, CoD-boi. I have been playing since Alpha. CCP still hasn't figured out how to get either mercenaries or vehicles spawned into the game. Since you ignored the technical reasons about how we got here it might be time for a little history.
For those of you that obviously weren't here when being red lined meant you couldn't spawn in. At all.
The MCC could be fired in, the ground spawns didn't exist so once the CRU was demolished you couldn't even choose anything between an uplink (all gone) or the CRU. Nope, just the MCC remained. So, either spawn there to get shot by Rail Gun tanks that fired into the opening (since modified). The red line was rarely 30m wide (that is the line between what the Reds see versus you anti-sniper crowd. Pretty much non-existent. And the battle finder would consistently drop new players into these lost cause battles because it was actually worse than the one we have now! Much worse.
But, why is this important to lame players like yourself? Play a game that works if you know of one. This is how Dust is. Not a good game, by CCP's own admission. No client development ever again and we still have the red line, abuse the other player by removing WP/SP/Health from them. Which means, they will leave battle and the game.
Which is fine by me. And, apparently, CCP as well.
And so it goes.
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Vell0cet
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
2220
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Posted - 2014.08.30 07:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
I have the perfect solution to the redline. Make it function like the cloak timer. You get a significantly longer period of time in the redline (like 45sec to 1min) but when you're out of the redline, your timer slowly recharges instead of instantly resetting. So you have plenty of time to fly a dropship, LAV or whatever into the redline to take out a sniper, redline rail tank, or redline installation gunner, but you're forced to spend the same amount of time out of the enemy's redline. This prevents sustained camping of the enemy's spawns, but does allow for hit/run attacks. You could also prevent repairing shields/armor when you're in the enemy's redline, to make it harder for organized squads to stomp, and giving the defenders an advantage.
Here's an example. Say the timer is 1 minute. You invade the enemy redline, kill the sniper and then get out after 40 seconds. You now have only 20 seconds of redline time left. You wait 30 seconds out of the redline and now have recharged to 50 seconds of enemy redline time.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Mike De Luca
STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME
280
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Posted - 2014.09.01 00:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
So much stupid in here, let me see if this helps me understand it.....*bangs head against cement block repeatedly* nope, still didn't work. Here's the simplest counter argument to every proposed idea to "fix" the redline......you CAN'T do it without screwing over everyone who ever gets redlined. It's that simple.
1. No xxx(wp, kills, damage, etc) in or out, no point in even trying to punch a hole through the 3 tanks, 4 av and 9 infantry now standing right outside of the frickin thing because you won't get anywhere since they'll position yourselves and make sure you're out in the open and they've still got cover.
2. Timer to suicide or kick........see above, but add in suit loss, cause you're not busting through the blockade in 30-60 seconds with a bunch of starter fits backing you up
3. Increase timer in enemy redline......plenty of spawns where you already get tanks/ads inside, let's just go ahead n make that worse lol
what i think of when charging fg
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bamboo x
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
1108
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Posted - 2014.09.01 01:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
At least 60 seconds or it will make it hard on vehicles trying to refuel/recall.
However it will take at least 90 seconds to safely get all the RDVs out of the spawn area.
Eternal Beings - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
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Vell0cet
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
2225
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Posted - 2014.09.01 15:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mike De Luca wrote:3. Increase timer in enemy redline......plenty of spawns where you already get tanks/ads inside, let's just go ahead n make that worse lol You didn't address the other aspect of my proposal, which is they'd have to spend much less time out of the redline. Right now, with a spawn close to redline, enemy players can run in, camp and quickly run out to reset and immediately return to camping. In my proposal, they'd be forced to spend an equal amount of time out of the redline, allowing the loosing team the opportunity to regroup and push back. Also, guys camping redline spawns would have significant restrictions like not being able to regen health, giving the people being stomped a big advantage.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Mike De Luca
STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME
284
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:13:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Mike De Luca wrote:3. Increase timer in enemy redline......plenty of spawns where you already get tanks/ads inside, let's just go ahead n make that worse lol You didn't address the other aspect of my proposal, which is they'd have to spend much less time out of the redline. Right now, with a spawn close to redline, enemy players can run in, camp and quickly run out to reset and immediately return to camping. In my proposal, they'd be forced to spend an equal amount of time out of the redline, allowing the loosing team the opportunity to regroup and push back. Also, guys camping redline spawns would have significant restrictions like not being able to regen health, giving the people being stomped a big advantage. Doesn't stop them from splitting up the squad to do 3/3 with at least 1 logi, 1 set goes in while the other resets the timer, logi reps as they come out. If you have a good squad set up, would still be easy.
what i think of when charging fg
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Vell0cet
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
2226
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Posted - 2014.09.01 19:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mike De Luca wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Mike De Luca wrote:3. Increase timer in enemy redline......plenty of spawns where you already get tanks/ads inside, let's just go ahead n make that worse lol You didn't address the other aspect of my proposal, which is they'd have to spend much less time out of the redline. Right now, with a spawn close to redline, enemy players can run in, camp and quickly run out to reset and immediately return to camping. In my proposal, they'd be forced to spend an equal amount of time out of the redline, allowing the loosing team the opportunity to regroup and push back. Also, guys camping redline spawns would have significant restrictions like not being able to regen health, giving the people being stomped a big advantage. Doesn't stop them from splitting up the squad to do 3/3 with at least 1 logi, 1 set goes in while the other resets the timer, logi reps as they come out. If you have a good squad set up, would still be easy. So instead of a full 6 guys running in, you've got teams of 3 who can't rep. Which would you rather deal with? It seems like this significantly reduces stomping, not makes it worse as you claim.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Mike De Luca
STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME
287
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Posted - 2014.09.02 17:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Mike De Luca wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Mike De Luca wrote:3. Increase timer in enemy redline......plenty of spawns where you already get tanks/ads inside, let's just go ahead n make that worse lol You didn't address the other aspect of my proposal, which is they'd have to spend much less time out of the redline. Right now, with a spawn close to redline, enemy players can run in, camp and quickly run out to reset and immediately return to camping. In my proposal, they'd be forced to spend an equal amount of time out of the redline, allowing the loosing team the opportunity to regroup and push back. Also, guys camping redline spawns would have significant restrictions like not being able to regen health, giving the people being stomped a big advantage. Doesn't stop them from splitting up the squad to do 3/3 with at least 1 logi, 1 set goes in while the other resets the timer, logi reps as they come out. If you have a good squad set up, would still be easy. So instead of a full 6 guys running in, you've got teams of 3 who can't rep. Which would you rather deal with? It seems like this significantly reduces stomping, doesn't make it worse as you claim. Furthermore, you don't have to have a 1:1 ratio. It could be 2 minutes out for every minute in, or whatever the Devs think makes sense. The main point is you can't constantly spawn camp players in their redline, but players can't abuse the redline to always remain safe either. That was just covering 1 squad, not all 16 of the enemy, as well as the fact that it can still be vehicles taking turns, which can completely decimate an entire team and leave before their time is up.
what i think of when charging fg
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Vell0cet
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
2227
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Posted - 2014.09.02 19:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mike De Luca wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Mike De Luca wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Mike De Luca wrote:3. Increase timer in enemy redline......plenty of spawns where you already get tanks/ads inside, let's just go ahead n make that worse lol You didn't address the other aspect of my proposal, which is they'd have to spend much less time out of the redline. Right now, with a spawn close to redline, enemy players can run in, camp and quickly run out to reset and immediately return to camping. In my proposal, they'd be forced to spend an equal amount of time out of the redline, allowing the loosing team the opportunity to regroup and push back. Also, guys camping redline spawns would have significant restrictions like not being able to regen health, giving the people being stomped a big advantage. Doesn't stop them from splitting up the squad to do 3/3 with at least 1 logi, 1 set goes in while the other resets the timer, logi reps as they come out. If you have a good squad set up, would still be easy. So instead of a full 6 guys running in, you've got teams of 3 who can't rep. Which would you rather deal with? It seems like this significantly reduces stomping, doesn't make it worse as you claim. Furthermore, you don't have to have a 1:1 ratio. It could be 2 minutes out for every minute in, or whatever the Devs think makes sense. The main point is you can't constantly spawn camp players in their redline, but players can't abuse the redline to always remain safe either. That was just covering 1 squad, not all 16 of the enemy, as well as the fact that it can still be vehicles taking turns, which can completely decimate an entire team and leave before their time is up. If you're getting redlined with 16 enemies it is currently a bad situation. This proposal actually makes that situation much better as it gives more time to regroup and push out, especially since the enemy can't repair shields/armor. They'll be fighting at a significant disadvantage. Yes, enemy vehicles can push in, but with the buff to installations, and the fact that vehicles will be more vulnerable, you'll still have much better fights than you do now.
Best PvE idea ever!
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