DUST Search - Logis and commandos being iterated on in Delta??

Breakin Stuff wrote:

zzZaXxx wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Giving a fatsuit an EWAR buff is about as useful as a football bat unless CCP sees fit to allow them passive scanning just behind scouts. I think fatties of all types should remain easily scanned regardless of whether sentinel, heavy frame or commando.

If you buff fats on EWAR it should be solely a precision bonus.

And even then only because if you are gonna play point defense you NEED to know what is hitting you or about to. Leave it so damped proyo scoutscan still slip a knife in your ribs because there is no excuse for not utilizing the Mk.1 eyeball issued to you at birth.

The whole idea of "fat suit" only works if you have an HMG. Commandos are not point defense. Wake up and smell the assault buff my friend. Commandos now have about the same EHP as assaults but have a bigger hitbox, are MUCH slower, and can't see assaults on passive scan. They have the light weapon for a sidearm but that's not enough. Yes lowering their precision is more important than profile. Commandos NEED to be able to see assaults on passive. They also should be able to have significantly higher EHP compared to assault if both are brick tanked, due to their lower speed and larger hitbox. I can't overemphasize how detrimental the hitbox is for commandos' natural play style.

Tis a general statement. I think commandos should be slightly easier to pick out than assaults but using sentinels and commandos as early warning bulwarks would actually be an insanely useful buff. Which is why I said buff the precision but leave them detectable.

Most habitual heavies dont bother with the radar. Its not going to detect the assault coming behind tou with a flux and CR.

I was actually mostly in agreement with you but I stand by tge assertion that buffing heavy passive scan precision and range meaningfully, both for sents and commandos would be a more meaningful and useful buff than a 20% boost to EHP in both cases.

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zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 442	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:35:00 - [1] - Quote I get the impression logis will get some much needed love coming up since the CPM is (it seems) focused on them, but what about Commandos? Personally I think commandos need some attention. It's a tall order to engage in battle like an assault while having the speed just over sentinal, same scan stats as sentinal, and the large hitbox. The detriment of the the latter is extreme when engaging with scouts and assaults rifle to rifle. I'm thinking increase all commandos movement speed by 0.2, change base profile/precision to 55/50, and give them an extra module slot--high for minmatar and amarr, low for caldari and gallente. Thoughts? EDIT: And of course more fittings to accomodate the extra slot.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 442	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:40:00 - [2] - Quote As for why low or high slots..... Gallente needs the extra low slot to add another kin cat so that they can get in range with AR/SG Caldari needs the versatility of another low slot. Minmatar needs more shielding, thus high. Amarr needs more damage, thus high. EDIT: The plasma cannon also is only any good in CQC, so gal commando needs a kin cat for that too.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2361	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:44:00 - [3] - Quote Giving a fatsuit an EWAR buff is about as useful as a football bat unless CCP sees fit to allow them passive scanning just behind scouts. I think fatties of all types should remain easily scanned regardless of whether sentinel, heavy frame or commando. If you buff fats on EWAR it should be solely a precision bonus. And even then only because if you are gonna play point defense you NEED to know what is hitting you or about to. Leave it so damped proyo scoutscan still slip a knife in your ribs because there is no excuse for not utilizing the Mk.1 eyeball issued to you at birth.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2995	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:50:00 - [4] - Quote Extra Speed? Eh, maybe? I don't feel too slow in my Commando. It feels appropriate for the base HP I have. Scans? Not the Commando's role. I'd say buffing that is unnecessary. You should rely on your GalLogi and Scouts for your scan information. Honestly I think if you just gave them the same slot layout as the Sentinel, that would be sufficient. They lack the higher base HP and damage resistances of the Sentinel so HP and eHP will still be lower, but it'll at least give the Commando some more options in fitting as it is currently very limited.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 443	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:54:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Giving a fatsuit an EWAR buff is about as useful as a football bat unless CCP sees fit to allow them passive scanning just behind scouts. I think fatties of all types should remain easily scanned regardless of whether sentinel, heavy frame or commando. If you buff fats on EWAR it should be solely a precision bonus. And even then only because if you are gonna play point defense you NEED to know what is hitting you or about to. Leave it so damped proyo scoutscan still slip a knife in your ribs because there is no excuse for not utilizing the Mk.1 eyeball issued to you at birth. The whole idea of "fat suit" only works if you have an HMG. Commandos are not point defense. Wake up and smell the assault buff my friend. Commandos now have about the same EHP as assaults but have a bigger hitbox, are MUCH slower, and can't see assaults on passive scan. They have the light weapon for a sidearm but that's not enough. Yes lowering their precision is more important than profile. Commandos NEED to be able to see assaults on passive. They also should be able to have significantly higher EHP compared to assault if both are brick tanked, due to their lower speed and larger hitbox. I can't overemphasize how detrimental the hitbox is for commandos' natural play style.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2361	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:58:00 - [6] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Giving a fatsuit an EWAR buff is about as useful as a football bat unless CCP sees fit to allow them passive scanning just behind scouts. I think fatties of all types should remain easily scanned regardless of whether sentinel, heavy frame or commando. If you buff fats on EWAR it should be solely a precision bonus. And even then only because if you are gonna play point defense you NEED to know what is hitting you or about to. Leave it so damped proyo scoutscan still slip a knife in your ribs because there is no excuse for not utilizing the Mk.1 eyeball issued to you at birth. The whole idea of "fat suit" only works if you have an HMG. Commandos are not point defense. Wake up and smell the assault buff my friend. Commandos now have about the same EHP as assaults but have a bigger hitbox, are MUCH slower, and can't see assaults on passive scan. They have the light weapon for a sidearm but that's not enough. Yes lowering their precision is more important than profile. Commandos NEED to be able to see assaults on passive. They also should be able to have significantly higher EHP compared to assault if both are brick tanked, due to their lower speed and larger hitbox. I can't overemphasize how detrimental the hitbox is for commandos' natural play style. Tis a general statement. I think commandos should be slightly easier to pick out than assaults but using sentinels and commandos as early warning bulwarks would actually be an insanely usseful buff. Most habitual heavies dont bother with the radar. Its not going to detect the assault coming behind tou with a flux and CR.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 443	Posted - 2014.08.28 16:00:00 - [7] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Extra Speed? Eh, maybe? I don't feel too slow in my Commando. It feels appropriate for the base HP I have. Scans? Not the Commando's role. I'd say buffing that is unnecessary. You should rely on your GalLogi and Scouts for your scan information. Honestly I think if you just gave them the same slot layout as the Sentinel, that would be sufficient. They lack the higher base HP and damage resistances of the Sentinel so HP and eHP will still be lower, but it'll at least give the Commando some more options in fitting as it is currently very limited. The scan buff is for two things: to always be able to see sentinals coming, and, more importantly, to have precision equal to assaults profile. That's it. I don't think that's asking too much. Assaults will always see commandos coming. People need to stop comparing commandos to heavies. Their roles are nothing alike. Yes, just one more slot, equal to sentinal, should do the trick. I think a little more speed would help to mitigate the extra exposure commandos get from the large hitbox. Again, I can't overstate what a handicap that is when facing assaults rifle to rifle, at whatever range. EDIT: With a 0.2 speed buff for commandos, assaults would still be be much faster.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 443	Posted - 2014.08.28 16:07:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Giving a fatsuit an EWAR buff is about as useful as a football bat unless CCP sees fit to allow them passive scanning just behind scouts. I think fatties of all types should remain easily scanned regardless of whether sentinel, heavy frame or commando. If you buff fats on EWAR it should be solely a precision bonus. And even then only because if you are gonna play point defense you NEED to know what is hitting you or about to. Leave it so damped proyo scoutscan still slip a knife in your ribs because there is no excuse for not utilizing the Mk.1 eyeball issued to you at birth. The whole idea of "fat suit" only works if you have an HMG. Commandos are not point defense. Wake up and smell the assault buff my friend. Commandos now have about the same EHP as assaults but have a bigger hitbox, are MUCH slower, and can't see assaults on passive scan. They have the light weapon for a sidearm but that's not enough. Yes lowering their precision is more important than profile. Commandos NEED to be able to see assaults on passive. They also should be able to have significantly higher EHP compared to assault if both are brick tanked, due to their lower speed and larger hitbox. I can't overemphasize how detrimental the hitbox is for commandos' natural play style. Tis a general statement. I think commandos should be slightly easier to pick out than assaults but using sentinels and commandos as early warning bulwarks would actually be an insanely useful buff. Which is why I said buff the precision but leave them detectable. Most habitual heavies dont bother with the radar. Its not going to detect the assault coming behind tou with a flux and CR. I was actually mostly in agreement with you but I stand by tge assertion that buffing heavy passive scan precision and range meaningfully, both for sents and commandos would be a more meaningful and useful buff than a 20% boost to EHP in both cases. Yes, of course commandos should remain detectable. Lowering their profile from 60 to 55 just gives them a chance to avoid detection by sentinals, which everyone should be able to do except other sentinals. Precision should go down no more than 50, because it's manifestly OP for assaults to be undetectable to commandos AND to be able to see them coming. But anything beyond 50 takes them out of their role.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2361	Posted - 2014.08.28 16:07:00 - [9] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: The scan buff is for two things: to always be able to see sentinals coming, and, more importantly, to have precision equal to assaults profile. That's it. I don't think that's asking too much. Assaults will always see commandos coming. People need to stop comparing commandos to heavies. Their roles are nothing alike. Yes, just one more slot, equal to sentinal, should do the trick. I think a little more speed would help to mitigate the extra exposure commandos get from the large hitbox. Again, I can't overstate what a handicap that is when facing assaults rifle to rifle, at whatever range. EDIT: With a 0.2 speed buff for commandos, assaults would still be be much faster. I probably mashed the quotes so sorry for that. One more slot is useful, speed is useful. The hitbox is big but im actually getting used to ripballing assaults 1v1. I may be the outlier but I find the PG/CPU restrictions far more troublesome than the lack of a fifth slot at proto. But like I said before, I think making commandos and sentinels into detector platforms, one for defense and door kicking and one in squad support would be the best possible buff you could give them. NOTHING you can fit is as valuable as knowing where the hostiles are.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 443	Posted - 2014.08.28 16:08:00 - [10] - Quote Could be an LP store suit variant!

JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 78	Posted - 2014.08.28 18:30:00 - [11] - Quote Some kind of incentive to run proto would be nice. The huge jump in cost for what amounts to an extra low slot just isnt worth it. I can't really make a suggestion since I commando most of the time (I'd be biased) but I REALLY like the scan buff idea. An extra high on my amarr commando would be pretty sweet too but that dmg might be overkill. I'm curious what ccp has in mind
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2366	Posted - 2014.08.28 18:49:00 - [12] - Quote Bluntly the only way to run dual proto weapons + ANY equipment whatsoever is the proto suits. The commando is so resource tight you couldn't pull a needle out of it's ass with a tractor.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 365	Posted - 2014.08.28 18:53:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Giving a fatsuit an EWAR buff is about as useful as a football bat unless CCP sees fit to allow them passive scanning just behind scouts. I think fatties of all types should remain easily scanned regardless of whether sentinel, heavy frame or commando. If you buff fats on EWAR it should be solely a precision bonus. And even then only because if you are gonna play point defense you NEED to know what is hitting you or about to. Leave it so damped proyo scoutscan still slip a knife in your ribs because there is no excuse for not utilizing the Mk.1 eyeball issued to you at birth. Now there is an interesting idea, giving commando suits passive scans just behind those of scouts, thus allowing them to have an informed "command" of the battlefield.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4568	Posted - 2014.08.28 19:28:00 - [14] - Quote Do Commandos need help? I ask because I see Nyain San using them. Also, do we want another wave of HP creep? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3000	Posted - 2014.08.28 19:40:00 - [15] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Giving a fatsuit an EWAR buff is about as useful as a football bat unless CCP sees fit to allow them passive scanning just behind scouts. I think fatties of all types should remain easily scanned regardless of whether sentinel, heavy frame or commando. If you buff fats on EWAR it should be solely a precision bonus. And even then only because if you are gonna play point defense you NEED to know what is hitting you or about to. Leave it so damped proyo scoutscan still slip a knife in your ribs because there is no excuse for not utilizing the Mk.1 eyeball issued to you at birth. Now there is an interesting idea, giving commando suits passive scans just behind those of scouts, thus allowing them to have an informed "command" of the battlefield. commando =/= one who commands
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2367	Posted - 2014.08.28 20:04:00 - [16] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Do Commandos need help? I ask because I see Nyain San using them. Also, do we want another wave of HP creep? HP buffing commandos is actually not something I'm advocating. There are other things you can buff to make a suit more efficient besides HP buffer/rep/DPS
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4569	Posted - 2014.08.28 21:00:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Do Commandos need help? I ask because I see Nyain San using them. Also, do we want another wave of HP creep? HP buffing commandos is actually not something I'm advocating. There are other things you can buff to make a suit more efficient besides HP buffer/rep/DPS Didn't you suggest adding a slot? If the past is any indication, this translates to HP creep. There's also the matter of "why" ... Commandos strike me as pretty good ... are they in fact bad? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2369	Posted - 2014.08.28 21:19:00 - [18] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Do Commandos need help? I ask because I see Nyain San using them. Also, do we want another wave of HP creep? HP buffing commandos is actually not something I'm advocating. There are other things you can buff to make a suit more efficient besides HP buffer/rep/DPS Didn't you suggest adding a slot? If the past is any indication, this translates to HP creep. There's also the matter of "why" ... Commandos strike me as pretty good ... are they in fact bad? Nope. I'm the one saying precision on passive scans. Learn to read and more importantly, read the name next to the post.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2039	Posted - 2014.08.28 21:28:00 - [19] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: snip Also, do we want another wave of HP creep? Uprising 1.8 changed how damage is being dealt in a significant manner. Every Dropsuit group needs a review. Assaults didn't get HP Creep because it was clear medium frames got a raw deal last spring. The hit points of both Logis and Commandos need to be looked into with how they are related to current hostile-fire and the hit point values found on Scouts, Assaults, and Sentinels. I have a lot of respect for Classic Logis. New Eden could use more Healers. Forums > Game: Biggest understatement ever
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 78	Posted - 2014.08.29 01:24:00 - [20] - Quote I would rather have a precision buff than an hp buff.

Jakkal Shoobah Direct Action Resources 3	Posted - 2014.08.29 22:55:00 - [21] - Quote I laugh at the suggestion of passive scans for a commando. Perhaps allowing each race to have at least one high and one low at basic might be a reasonable suggestion, but I already have a hard time fitting lots of good equipment on a commando( basic is still killer). I'd appreciate a speed boost on the commandos, nothing drastic. But its kind of upsetting to have min sentinels walk and run at the same pace as my gallente commando ( no kin kats involved). Commandos are pretty dangerous because they have the ability to use both an armor based and shield based weapon that has imrpoved range over a sidearm. This is the advantage I love because it allows me to mow down sentinels from afar and kill suits that are approaching quickly pretty quickly without having to be dangerously close. Commandos must rely on their eyes and not their scans ( as all heavies should do if they dont have scan support). I think commandos are still a viable choice. They just have to worry about assault suits who are MASTERS of their weapn type. Jakkal "Jammal" Shoobah, The friendly/pissy Gallente Commando/Assault Assault Rifles til I get stomped to the ground
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 683	Posted - 2014.08.29 23:10:00 - [22] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: I get the impression logis will get some much needed love coming up since the CPM is (it seems) focused on them, but what about Commandos? Personally I think commandos need some attention. It's a tall order to engage in battle like an assault while having the speed just over sentinal, same scan stats as sentinal, and the large hitbox. The detriment of the the latter is extreme when engaging with scouts and assaults rifle to rifle. I'm thinking increase all commandos movement speed by 0.2, change base profile/precision to 55/50, and give them an extra module slot--high for minmatar and amarr, low for caldari and gallente. Thoughts? EDIT: And of course more fittings to accomodate the extra slot. delta is logi, commando, equipment, snipers.. i forget what else.. OH sidearms too [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2412	Posted - 2014.08.30 06:29:00 - [23] - Quote Honestly if we kept the hitbox and the slowness and lack of nades, why not just set commandos up akin to assaults slotwise? Now before we start screaming about EHP buffer lets look at the perfect control measure? PG/CPU. Set up commando CPU/PG so that instead of running hot onregular plates and reps their PG/CPU is set up to run things like ferroscales and reactives? Those are a bit cheaper in PG ang not as beefy. Also for the shield setups optimize for rechargers and energizers over extenders. This would result in EHP Remaining similar but slightly higher to tanked assaults. My thought is a proper cpu/pg setup can force a player to choose between a lighter tank to have good weapons and equipment or having crap for weapons and equipment while running a standard plate/rep or extender heavy fit. Probably a bad idea but commandos should be balanced with an eye for similar (though not identical) performance to assaults. This is to be treated as discussion fuel, not as what I want commandos to be. I want them to be effective, not overpowered. OP commandos are just as bad for the game as weak, unfun logistics suits.
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 153	Posted - 2014.08.30 13:02:00 - [24] - Quote I haven't had any trouble fighting in my min commando suit. I have shut down many pushes on Dom (Solo) by knocking out any troops with CR and any vehicle rushes suddenly realize they can't just cruise in unopposed with swarms in my second weapon slot. I've maxed out min commando, combat rifle and swarms proficiency and usually a complex or enhanced damage mod. So perhaps im a special case with many unfiltered damage boost courtesy of suit bonuses, weapon proficiencies, and damage mods but hey, damage is the name of the game with commandos. Despite it's low ehp, I have survived many engagements because of my hit and run tactics(minmatar style of course) . I would appreciate precision scan boost because i have had sentinel suits sneak up on me with that darn burst HMG. As a min commando i'm probably a bit bias on what could be improved, but if anything the biggest detriment to commando is the lack of slots, huge hit-box despite a low base ehp, and slow speed( given faster as a heavy suit but given its role as somewhat of a beefier or flexible assault, it's lacking. 1)Shield Regen- I would say boost repair regen rate of suits for shields or even the delays to shields. The commando requires you to keep up a field of fire but with a huge hit box you take damage easy and fast. So reducing downtime between engagements will keep the commando up on holding the front-lines, 2) Speed - This is probably the min in me but speed will hopefully alleviate the hit box penalty for being in a heavy suit allowing you to dodge or avoid some fire. Also a defense to low ehp given the size. 3) Slots - I think given that the commando is converted from the sentinel perhaps the suits should share the same layout as how the medium suits both get the same layout configuration between its assault and logistical variant. Although I could see some potential issues with OP fitting ability given that the commando has an innate damage boost so technically every commando has an built-in high slot with a damage modifier. However, the main problem may lie in the ehp and the inability to fit satisfactory amount of hp modules so maybe giving commandos a base ehp boost akin to the recent assault ehp bonus. I also admit i don't seem to find a whole lot of benefit to using a proto commando suit. I have many from the commando challenge when they were first released but giving their role (at least for me). I seem no more survivable in proto than advanced, which means not worth the cost. TLDR; 1) Regen Rate/Delays 2) Speed 3) Slot/Ehp buff 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 79	Posted - 2014.08.30 13:31:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I want them to be effective, not overpowered.. I definitely do NOT want to be THAT guy. You know..the one who runs OP stuff. Passive scan buff please. I really don't need any more slots but if I had to pick I personally would rather have another equipment than a module. Just my opinion but I don't need more hp because without a Sentinel's damage reduction that extra hp means nothing . I really think that extra battlefield awareness of a passive scan buff would really increase survival as well as make me more valuable to my squad
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 71	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:15:00 - [26] - Quote Grenade slot !!!! SPAWN.KILL.DIE.RESPAWN.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 689	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:23:00 - [27] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: As for why low or high slots..... Gallente needs the extra low slot to add another kin cat so that they can get in range with AR/SG Caldari needs the versatility of another low slot. Minmatar needs more shielding, thus high. Amarr needs more damage, thus high. EDIT: The plasma cannon also is only any good in CQC, so gal commando needs a kin cat for that too. calmando needs a low at standard level [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 291	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:41:00 - [28] - Quote I have felt for quite some time that the downsides of Commando fits (the hitbox, the quick for a heavy but sloooow for an assault, no nades, few slots) don't really balance the perks (twin light weapons, one equip and weapon bonuses). My idea to add to Commando viability (and this may be thematic to some of you from me) is actually to give Commandos the second equipment capability currently enjoyed by scouts, who, yes, would lose theirs. This allows Commandos to behave as commando-type units with ability to insert and reinforce positions but be limited since they're slow and high profile, while scouts keep one equipment slot to utilize in their mission to provide forward positons, recon or battlefield intel/ewar. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH 493	Posted - 2014.08.31 15:35:00 - [29] - Quote Giving commandos a passive scan buff would make me immensely happy. Anything that pushes the suit's role into direction away from tank and/or spank would be really appreciated, and an EWAR specialised heavy suit could bring something new to the battlefield. +1 Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 203	Posted - 2014.08.31 18:00:00 - [30] - Quote i would not say no to an increase of 45db precision and 25m scan radius lets just burn this motherfucker down pew pew goes my scram rifle zap zap goes my scram pistol



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