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Haerr Legio DXIV 1251	Posted - 2014.08.26 07:47:00 - [1] - Quote Consider this: There is an Assault variant There is a Breach variant A Burst variant has been mentioned A Tactical variant has also been mentioned This just leaves the Standard SMG, so my question is what kind of "variant" is the standard SMG? Is it going to disappear as part of the Delta balancing? In which case which variant do you think will be the Minmatar standard?
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3276	Posted - 2014.08.26 09:33:00 - [2] - Quote Well we've got all of those for the Scrambler Pistol and the normal one is still there. Maybe they're their own special Jack-In-The-Box variants. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Haerr Legio DXIV 1253	Posted - 2014.08.26 09:42:00 - [3] - Quote Spademan wrote: Well we've got all of those for the Scrambler Pistol and the normal one is still there. Maybe they're their own special Jack-In-The-Box variants. Which makes me wonder what a bolt pistol version on the "standard" variant ScP would be called... This SCOTTY has Super Cow Powers.
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3277	Posted - 2014.08.26 09:50:00 - [4] - Quote I stick by Jack-In-The-Box Bolt Pistol. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Leovarian L Lavitz G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1144	Posted - 2014.08.26 10:09:00 - [5] - Quote It's the low consumption smg. Its variant is the breach smg. Then, you can spend more pg and cpu to get the upgraded assault smg. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 609	Posted - 2014.08.26 11:30:00 - [6] - Quote Haerr wrote: Consider this: There is an Assault variant There is a Breach variant A Burst variant has been mentioned A Tactical variant has also been mentioned This just leaves the Standard SMG, so my question is what kind of "variant" is the standard SMG? Is it going to disappear as part of the Delta balancing? In which case which variant do you think will be the Minmatar standard? standard is not a variant its a basic unmodified model which uses less cpu/pg but for less dmg per shot less ROF less range.. and so on.. look at assault smg.. MOAR dmg per shot more ROF much higher CPU/PG use (nearly on par with Light weapons) tbh full auto should be the standard and also we need a full auto standard CR for level 2 CR skill cause having to get to 4 for the full auto is nuts.. same for the full auto ScR.. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 609	Posted - 2014.08.26 11:30:00 - [7] - Quote Haerr wrote: Spademan wrote: Well we've got all of those for the Scrambler Pistol and the normal one is still there. Maybe they're their own special Jack-In-The-Box variants. Which makes me wonder what a bolt pistol version on the "standard" variant ScP would be called... bolt pistol needs an SL-4 type variant.. faster fireing lower dmg per shot [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3280	Posted - 2014.08.26 12:29:00 - [8] - Quote The assault variant has no right to exist, there's just no reason for a variant to be better in every way than the base version. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Haerr Legio DXIV 1253	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:18:00 - [9] - Quote Spademan wrote: The assault variant has no right to exist, there's just no reason for a variant to be better in every way than the base version. ^ This. +1 This SCOTTY has Super Cow Powers.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1253	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:21:00 - [10] - Quote Haerr wrote: Spademan wrote: The assault variant has no right to exist, there's just no reason for a variant to be better in every way than the base version. ^ This. +1 How would anyone feel about an Assault "Assault Rifle" that has more range and a higher RoF? Seems rather silly to have an SMG that is just that. This SCOTTY has Super Cow Powers.


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5714	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:24:00 - [11] - Quote what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:37:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? RoF: 1500 Damage: 18 Magazine size: 24 Range: Same Something like this?
Haerr Legio DXIV 1253	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:39:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Perhaps the SMG variants could move closer to to how the HMG variants works? Assault having a longer range but lower damage. For reference: Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Effective range:5250.0 Fire Interval:0.025 Damage:19.8 Freedom Assault Heavy Machine Gun Effective range:7087.5 Fire Interval:0.025 Damage:15.84 Six Kin Submachine Gun Effective range:4800.0 Fire Interval:0.06 Damage:23.1 Ishukone Assault Submachine Gun Effective range:5040.0 Fire Interval:0.057 Damage:23.1 This SCOTTY has Super Cow Powers.
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3284	Posted - 2014.08.26 13:45:00 - [14] - Quote I was going to suggest something similar to Fizzer, slash the damage, beef up the Rof a bit, drop the magazine size a little (not as drastic as that) Haerr's suggestion has merit too. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3225	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:17:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Assault should have a lower range than normal variant... at least according to the light weapon naming convention. Assault type is lower range and higher rof variant. Breach would then be the opposite, higher range lower RoF. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7368	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:18:00 - [16] - Quote Give the assault SMG more range and less damage Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5718	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:37:00 - [17] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Assault should have a lower range than normal variant... at least according to the light weapon naming convention. Assault type is lower range and higher rof variant. Breach would then be the opposite, higher range lower RoF. A big complaint I have with this game is that the variant names are not consistent at all between different weapons. Its like you guys just had a design and slapped a name on it, no consistency whatsoever. Why is the Assault Rail or Combat Rifle a lower range and high RoF variant of the original and then the Assault HMG is a long range variant? This kind of stuff confuses new players and just generally looks inconsistent and unprofessional. (imo at least) I agree, I also dislike having basic suits, that can still be prototype, yet basic equals standard for items . Something we can maybe fix. Please bring more of these examples to our attention. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 509	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:50:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Assault should have a lower range than normal variant... at least according to the light weapon naming convention. Assault type is lower range and higher rof variant. Breach would then be the opposite, higher range lower RoF. A big complaint I have with this game is that the variant names are not consistent at all between different weapons. Its like you guys just had a design and slapped a name on it, no consistency whatsoever. Why is the Assault Rail or Combat Rifle a lower range and high RoF variant of the original and then the Assault HMG is a long range variant? This kind of stuff confuses new players and just generally looks inconsistent and unprofessional. (imo at least) I agree, I also dislike having basic suits, that can still be prototype, yet basic equals standard for items . Something we can maybe fix. Please bring more of these examples to our attention. I don't like the idea of have an Assault SMG with more range, because then it is basically a MAGSEC. The Magsec would have very little purpose. The Assault SMG should keep it's higher rate of fire, but at the same time have a smaller clip, falling in line with the Breach (Slower ROF, Higher Damage, Smaller Clip Size). You can deliver more damage in the same time as the basic SMG, but if you get in a firefight or miss the shots, it should cost you. I mean halving the clip of the Assault (40 rounds) RESPEC PLEASE After Delta CEO of GODS AMONG MEN Clone Wars forever #Starwars: Battlefront 3 Avid Bboy
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 385	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:55:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Assault should have a lower range than normal variant... at least according to the light weapon naming convention. Assault type is lower range and higher rof variant. Breach would then be the opposite, higher range lower RoF. A big complaint I have with this game is that the variant names are not consistent at all between different weapons. Its like you guys just had a design and slapped a name on it, no consistency whatsoever. Why is the Assault Rail or Combat Rifle a lower range and high RoF variant of the original and then the Assault HMG is a long range variant? This kind of stuff confuses new players and just generally looks inconsistent and unprofessional. (imo at least) I agree, I also dislike having basic suits, that can still be prototype, yet basic equals standard for items . Something we can maybe fix. Please bring more of these examples to our attention. That makes us two Would you mind giving the basic suites some "basic" bonuses while your at it? Maybe then more people will spec into them (and actually use them?) Like "+2% PG/CPU per level" (of basic frames skill)? This would make the "basic" suites extremely versatile fitting wise, but not get any role specific bonuses (as today) Edit: to OP: Sorry for the side topic. Not my intention to change subject of the thread.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7369	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:34:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Assault should have a lower range than normal variant... at least according to the light weapon naming convention. Assault type is lower range and higher rof variant. Breach would then be the opposite, higher range lower RoF. A big complaint I have with this game is that the variant names are not consistent at all between different weapons. Its like you guys just had a design and slapped a name on it, no consistency whatsoever. Why is the Assault Rail or Combat Rifle a lower range and high RoF variant of the original and then the Assault HMG is a long range variant? This kind of stuff confuses new players and just generally looks inconsistent and unprofessional. (imo at least) I agree, I also dislike having basic suits, that can still be prototype, yet basic equals standard for items . Something we can maybe fix. Please bring more of these examples to our attention. While I agree to a point I think the terms for variations should depend on the race. While things like Tactical and burst will stay the same universally, the terms breach and assault could be more of an interpretation of what that means to them. Assault Minmatar - more range, less damage Assault Amarr - Lower range, more RoF Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel

RECON BY FIRE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 438	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:42:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Leave it the **** alone. SMGs are one of the few weapons that work well within the zone they are supposed to, but aren't absurdly OP. Change everything else to compete with it, and then maybe tweak assault variants later. Focus on making other sidearms usable coughflaylockcough. Stuff....?
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 239	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:30:00 - [22] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Leave it the **** alone. SMGs are one of the few weapons that work well within the zone they are supposed to, but aren't absurdly OP. Change everything else to compete with it, and then maybe tweak assault variants later. Focus on making other sidearms usable coughflaylockcough. What about the magsec, should be a ranged weapon but the kick is garbage to use it at range especially with those iron sights. Not to mention spool up time on a last resort weapon kind of defeats the purpose to use it as a last resort..
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3227	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:46:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I agree, I also dislike having basic suits, that can still be prototype, yet basic equals standard for items . Something we can maybe fix. Please bring more of these examples to our attention. Hm... you could probably just removed the basic from the name and call it good? For other examples, look at the swarm launcher too. I know logi bro has already bookmarked all of the variants for a rework but it doesn't follow convention either. My suggestion for the SMG would be to switch the ranges on the ASMG and SMG and look at the breach and consider buffing the range on that to some point above the current ASMG range. Then look at the fitting cost and see if it still makes sense, right now the ASMG costs a bit more in fitting to balance its power increase, for a sidearm I would honestly just make them all cost the same after normalizing the range between variants. My suggestion at least, take it as you wish. RECON BY FIRE wrote: Leave it the **** alone. SMGs are one of the few weapons that work well within the zone they are supposed to, but aren't absurdly OP. Change everything else to compete with it, and then maybe tweak assault variants later. Focus on making other sidearms usable coughflaylockcough. The SMG is in a good spot I agree, but its inconsistent. The assault variant is hands down the best variant in every situation. While all sidearms are being looked at anyways for delta, this should also be changed. I agree that the SMG should be the baseline for what a sidearm should do though, and all other underperforming variants should be brought up to par instead of nerfing the SMG. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3369	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:53:00 - [24] - Quote I agree with most people at least partially, bump up the ROF even more and lower the damage. Normalize variant ranges to follow the naming conventions given to the rifles. But a Clip Size reduction isn't necessary since you are already increasing the ROF. That said a little extra recoil wouldn't go amiss. If you increase the ROF AND reduce the clip size you end up with a weapon that is only a finisher, it won't have enough rounds to kill someone. At least leave the Mag Reduction to Echo, so you can decide if it's needed on the new Assault Variant. In terms of the breach give it similar range to the Magsec but at slightly lower DPS, don't forget to bump it's recoil as well. Magsecs would benifit from an Assault Variant which has similar stats the Basic SMG. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Ryme Intrinseca 1636	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:07:00 - [25] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Assault should have a lower range than normal variant... at least according to the light weapon naming convention. Assault type is lower range and higher rof variant. Breach would then be the opposite, higher range lower RoF. A big complaint I have with this game is that the variant names are not consistent at all between different weapons. Its like you guys just had a design and slapped a name on it, no consistency whatsoever. Why is the Assault Rail or Combat Rifle a lower range and high RoF variant of the original and then the Assault HMG is a long range variant? This kind of stuff confuses new players and just generally looks inconsistent and unprofessional. (imo at least) It is only really the assault hmg that is well out of line in terms of naming for the reason you mention. It could be made slightly shorter range than regular hmg, lower damage, higher RoF (so similar dps). Make the assault smg follow the same pattern suggests and youre golden.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 282	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:52:00 - [26] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Leave it the **** alone. SMGs are one of the few weapons that work well within the zone they are supposed to, but aren't absurdly OP. Change everything else to compete with it, and then maybe tweak assault variants later. Focus on making other sidearms usable coughflaylockcough. ^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^ Whatever the issues balance/performance-wise there are with some of the newer sidearms, please keep the "fixes" limited to those, lest we "throw the baby out with the bathwater". SMGs are fine, if theres a problem with what they're called change the stupid name not their parameters. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1261	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:07:00 - [27] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Assault should have a lower range than normal variant... at least according to the light weapon naming convention. Assault type is lower range and higher rof variant. Breach would then be the opposite, higher range lower RoF. A big complaint I have with this game is that the variant names are not consistent at all between different weapons. Its like you guys just had a design and slapped a name on it, no consistency whatsoever. Why is the Assault Rail or Combat Rifle a lower range and high RoF variant of the original and then the Assault HMG is a long range variant? This kind of stuff confuses new players and just generally looks inconsistent and unprofessional. (imo at least) It is only really the assault hmg that is well out of line in terms of naming for the reason you mention. It could be made slightly shorter range than regular hmg, lower damage, higher RoF (so similar dps). Make the assault smg follow the same pattern suggests and youre golden. ^ I like this idea. Make the HMG and SMG follow the rifles. This SCOTTY has Super Cow Powers.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2022	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:26:00 - [28] - Quote Haerr wrote: Haerr wrote: Spademan wrote: The assault variant has no right to exist, there's just no reason for a variant to be better in every way than the base version. ^ This. +1 How would anyone feel about an Assault "Assault Rifle" that has more range and a higher RoF? Seems rather silly to have an SMG that is just that. Historically speaking the move from Battle Rifles to Assault Rifles can generally characterized by movement towards a smaller caliber ammunition, automatic fire, and larger magazines. So technically an Assault "Assault Rifle" would have less damage per shot, 3+ times the ammo, big increase in ROF, and significantly less range from the base model. /tangent I have a lot of respect for Classic Logis. New Eden could use more Healers. Forums > Game: Biggest understatement ever
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 187	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:47:00 - [29] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? Leave it the **** alone. SMGs are one of the few weapons that work well within the zone they are supposed to, but aren't absurdly OP. Change everything else to compete with it, and then maybe tweak assault variants later. Focus on making other sidearms usable coughflaylockcough. What about the magsec, should be a ranged weapon but the kick is garbage to use it at range especially with those iron sights. Not to mention spool up time on a last resort weapon kind of defeats the purpose to use it as a last resort.. The spool up time is small and it hardly has any kick (at least for me, and if it does, it's VERY controllable). I liked the way Battlefield did their recoil mechanic, while CoD has virtually no recoil whatsoever (it's mostly vertical). In Battlefield, recoil is more 'realistic' or balanced, as the weapon and it's sights kick around, generally in a spastic, circle like pattern or a figure-eight. With the skillbooks of about 1/3 of the weapons in Dust being 'reduced recoil 'x' amount per level urks me, as recoil is almost strictly vertical, and is easily controllable by simply pulling down the right control stick (with the default control layout) or letting go of the trigger and reseting the recoil. If done similarly to Battlefield, you can easily eliminate extreme dps values and utter domination with stronger weapons (like proto stomping), as you're no longer guaranteed 100% accuracy. It also harms the lower tier weapons as well, but players can stand a far better chance at simply surviving the slaughter of proto. The other thing that I dislike about the recoil of Dust is that it has recoil similar to Battlefield (like the Assault Combat Rifle and Assault/Plasma Rifle), but it only happens towards the end of the magazine, which is highly unrealistic in terms of how a weapon functions, but is also pointless when you can let go of the trigger for a fraction of a second and immediately reset the recoil and continue firing. It's a horribly broken mechanic. Recoil should be per bullet, not generated overtime and easily reset-able. The magsec is the perfect example of this, as it immediately kicks around as soon as you pull the trigger. That's recoil. My apologies for going off the topic of this thread. May I ask as to what the purpose of the Sniper Rifles operation skill is? Sniper sway is completely eliminated by crouching... so it seems useless. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 138	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:10:00 - [30] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: what should we do with the Assault SMG, reduce the clip? Massive burst damage, but very limited ammo? RoF: 1500 Damage: 18 Magazine size: 24 Range: Same Something like this? Oh yea everyone be signing up for an smg with a damage per clip of 432, especially with smg's longer reload times.



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