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Monkey MAC wrote:

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

RayRay James wrote:

Judge, the "Dont fly what you cant afford to lose" mantra is as old as EVE.

yeah, I know. But people wheel it out like it actually has meaning when imbalance is discussed.

Except, with the exception of 1 map, maybe 2. Loosing a dropship to redline turret installations is ENTIRELY your own fault, their is no need to fly that close to the enemy redline, at altitude that is coverable by the turrets since they still have an elevation cap.

Players who say it when the discussion is on a game mechanic that has flaws are failing to apply proper thought to the discussion. They are not addressing the issue, just trying to sound wizened and experienced. This may impress the simple, but the grown ups are trying to have a discussion here.
And here you stand as one of our CPM's throwing insults and being as childish as though you are aiming them at. You are supposed to be listening to those discussing, not trying to enforce your personal opinions upon the masses, I suggest you take a step back and watch your tone with your fellow players.

Losing an asset to a broken or flawed mechanic has nothing at all to do with risk vs reward. Saying it does, by spouting a truism adds nothing to the conversation but disappointment at the one who posts it.
If said broken mechanic is actually because you strayed too close to their redline, then it has everything to do with risk vs reward, YOUR taking the risk, YOUR reward is killing those who are in their redline.

In short instead of jumping to such extensive measures and arguementitve absolutes, why don't you try more subtle solutions.
I can think of a quarter dozen off hand.

Cap Installation ranges to the edge of the redline

Move Installations back a little further

Move Redlines back or move objectives away from them.

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Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11694	Posted - 2014.08.14 20:17:00 - [31] - Quote I like turrets being a threat :( Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2706	Posted - 2014.08.14 20:29:00 - [32] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Judge, the "Dont fly what you cant afford to lose" mantra is as old as EVE. yeah, I know. But people wheel it out like it actually has meaning when imbalance is discussed. Players who say it when the discussion is on a game mechanic that has flaws are failing to apply proper thought to the discussion. They are not addressing the issue, just trying to sound wizened and experienced. This may impress the simple, but the grown ups are trying to have a discussion here. Losing an asset to a broken or flawed mechanic has nothing at all to do with risk vs reward. Saying it does, by spouting a truism adds nothing to the conversation but disappointment at the one who posts it. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
danthrax martin Butcher's Nails 109	Posted - 2014.08.14 20:33:00 - [33] - Quote It's only taking a few more seconds to take them out with swarms and forge and the fun is getting them into position. It's a problem? I don't get it, unless your trying to take out infantry that hasn't made it to the battle yet...are you? Pro Galmando - Gal Sentinel Suicidal A/V Moron
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16181	Posted - 2014.08.14 21:02:00 - [34] - Quote Joel II X wrote: The only redline turret that's overkill is the Missile since it has infinite range. Either way, no. Charlie Patch Notes wrote: Missile Launcher Installations range has been reduced from 2000m to 250m to match vehicle mounted Large Missile Launchers CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 790	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:03:00 - [35] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I like turrets being a threat :( They can be a threat all they want but they need to be kept outside the redline. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 790	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:05:00 - [36] - Quote danthrax martin wrote: It's only taking a few more seconds to take them out with swarms and forge and the fun is getting them into position. It's a problem? I don't get it, unless your trying to take out infantry that hasn't made it to the battle yet...are you? it takes two FG clips to bust a redline railgun. It takes like 2 and a half swarm clips and that is just for one turret. There are approximately 4-5 turrets in each enemies redline. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 790	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:14:00 - [37] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Kill the operator, he is kinda stationery. An automated turret is no threat, a manned turret is a free kill. Well to be fair, you can't readily kill an operator who is using a turret in the redline. I think installations in the redline are a good countermeasure to keep enemies away from the redline. I think the issue here is more so that the exact placement of said installations are problematic in same cases. So we should look more at where in the redline they should be placed, and not so much getting rid of them completely. here's an idea, replace all the redline turrets with blaster turrets. They have relatively small range. The railgun installations are the biggest probelm being able to shoot hundreds of meters out of the redline. There are turrets that only shoot out of the redline into the sky preventing dropships from doing anything. They're usually protected from tanks and forges by hills. They can completely control the sky. ADS have to use 25 prototype missiles just to destroy these pesky turrets usually camped by newbs. Often they are far back into the redline to a point where an ADS can only get a few shots before he has to get out of redline. To make it even worse is that turrets now have armor repairs. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3294	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:19:00 - [38] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: RayRay James wrote: Judge, the "Dont fly what you cant afford to lose" mantra is as old as EVE. yeah, I know. But people wheel it out like it actually has meaning when imbalance is discussed. Except, with the exception of 1 map, maybe 2. Loosing a dropship to redline turret installations is ENTIRELY your own fault, their is no need to fly that close to the enemy redline, at altitude that is coverable by the turrets since they still have an elevation cap. Players who say it when the discussion is on a game mechanic that has flaws are failing to apply proper thought to the discussion. They are not addressing the issue, just trying to sound wizened and experienced. This may impress the simple, but the grown ups are trying to have a discussion here. And here you stand as one of our CPM's throwing insults and being as childish as though you are aiming them at. You are supposed to be listening to those discussing, not trying to enforce your personal opinions upon the masses, I suggest you take a step back and watch your tone with your fellow players. Losing an asset to a broken or flawed mechanic has nothing at all to do with risk vs reward. Saying it does, by spouting a truism adds nothing to the conversation but disappointment at the one who posts it. If said broken mechanic is actually because you strayed too close to their redline, then it has everything to do with risk vs reward, YOUR taking the risk, YOUR reward is killing those who are in their redline. In short instead of jumping to such extensive measures and arguementitve absolutes, why don't you try more subtle solutions. I can think of a quarter dozen off hand. Cap Installation ranges to the edge of the redline Move Installations back a little further Move Redlines back or move objectives away from them. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 790	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:22:00 - [39] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: RayRay James wrote: Judge, the "Dont fly what you cant afford to lose" mantra is as old as EVE. yeah, I know. But people wheel it out like it actually has meaning when imbalance is discussed. Except, with the exception of 1 map, maybe 2. Loosing a dropship to redline turret installations is ENTIRELY your own fault, their is no need to fly that close to the enemy redline, at altitude that is coverable by the turrets since they still have an elevation cap. Players who say it when the discussion is on a game mechanic that has flaws are failing to apply proper thought to the discussion. They are not addressing the issue, just trying to sound wizened and experienced. This may impress the simple, but the grown ups are trying to have a discussion here. And here you stand as one of our CPM's throwing insults and being as childish as though you are aiming them at. You are supposed to be listening to those discussing, not trying to enforce your personal opinions upon the masses, I suggest you take a step back and watch your tone with your fellow players. Losing an asset to a broken or flawed mechanic has nothing at all to do with risk vs reward. Saying it does, by spouting a truism adds nothing to the conversation but disappointment at the one who posts it. If said broken mechanic is actually because you strayed too close to their redline, then it has everything to do with risk vs reward, YOUR taking the risk, YOUR reward is killing those who are in their redline. In short instead of jumping to such extensive measures and arguementitve absolutes, why don't you try more subtle solutions. I can think of a quarter dozen off hand. Cap Installation ranges to the edge of the redline Move Installations back a little further Move Redlines back or move objectives away from them. 4. turn them all into blasters. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 1126	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:22:00 - [40] - Quote I would think most pilots would have some sort of AV fitting in play to combat whatever just took you down. Commando with Swarms and a Rifle, best Pilot fitting? Maybe a Rep Tool? I don't always blap Infantry with a Forge Gun, but when I do, that ** is hilarious.

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3294	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:23:00 - [41] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Kill the operator, he is kinda stationery. An automated turret is no threat, a manned turret is a free kill. Well to be fair, you can't readily kill an operator who is using a turret in the redline. I think installations in the redline are a good countermeasure to keep enemies away from the redline. I think the issue here is more so that the exact placement of said installations are problematic in same cases. So we should look more at where in the redline they should be placed, and not so much getting rid of them completely. here's an idea, replace all the redline turrets with blaster turrets. They have relatively small range. The railgun installations are the biggest probelm being able to shoot hundreds of meters out of the redline. There are turrets that only shoot out of the redline into the sky preventing dropships from doing anything. They're usually protected from tanks and forges by hills. They can completely control the sky. ADS have to use 25 prototype missiles just to destroy these pesky turrets usually camped by newbs. Often they are far back into the redline to a point where an ADS can only get a few shots before he has to get out of redline. To make it even worse is that turrets now have armor repairs. Personally I would say missile turrets are a better choice, since the whole point of redline installations is to protect against enemy incursions. Futhermore missiles are difficult to hit a moving dropship with, but still do plenty of damage to vehicles. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2812	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:26:00 - [42] - Quote I think it's still important to have rail and missile turrets to defend against vehicles pushing the redline, but if we need to put them deeper into the redline to avoid them overextending influence into the battlefield, that's fine. Blaster turrets should be closer to the edge of the redline to defend against infantry pushing the redline.
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2037	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:27:00 - [43] - Quote I warned you all. 10k armor is just stupidity Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3294	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:34:00 - [44] - Quote ladwar wrote: I warned you all. 10k armor is just stupidity It's not really though. If anything redline turrets are less of an issue now then in Bravo when we had 2000m range missile turrets. The big question is why pilots are straying within less than 250m of the enemy redline. Since its only 250m if they are exactly level with the installation. We are talking less than the length your average socket here. It's a worrying prospect! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 892	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:36:00 - [45] - Quote Oh look, players complaining exactly what I warned CCP about in their feedback thread. For those of you who argue that those complaining are too close to the redline, on several maps, the redline is too close to the objectives. Edit: Not saying turrets didn't need a buff. But not all solutions are simple as raising a value or two. Medium frame EHP is not medium
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2037	Posted - 2014.08.14 22:56:00 - [46] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: ladwar wrote: I warned you all. 10k armor is just stupidity It's not really though. If anything redline turrets are less of an issue now then in Bravo when we had 2000m range missile turrets. The big question is why pilots are straying within less than 250m of the enemy redline. Since its only 250m if they are exactly level with the installation. We are talking less than the length your average socket here. It's a worrying prospect! Go play dom._ ashland is is freaking stupid bad and i ran a tank, not even a ads. Coming out of the redline and already taking fire Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
Abber Dietmart Vendetta Reactionary Force 1	Posted - 2014.08.14 23:05:00 - [47] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Joel II X wrote: The only redline turret that's overkill is the Missile since it has infinite range. Either way, no. Bro, do you even ADS? ADS are borderline impossible to kill so stop whining if you get killed by one of the few things able to actually do some damage to you. The Railgun turrets have crap range and a blindspot so big you can fit the MCC there so pay attention to your surroundings or fly a bit higher and you won't die
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 688	Posted - 2014.08.14 23:14:00 - [48] - Quote I'd rather see more installations in the redline, coupled with the ability to call them from orbit. That would be awesome; gives a team a chance to fight their way out of the redline back on the field. I know that installations are something that CCP nixed or put on the backburner ages ago, but it would be cool to be able to 're-spawn' a destroyed installation in the same spot they normally spawn in. With Chuck's installation buff, coupled with a logi equipped with an 'axis' repair tool, might make things interesting. Certainly would give me a reason to even consider using the BDR-5. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, fatman
Abber Dietmart Vendetta Reactionary Force 1	Posted - 2014.08.14 23:15:00 - [49] - Quote Abber Dietmart wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Joel II X wrote: The only redline turret that's overkill is the Missile since it has infinite range. Either way, no. Bro, do you even ADS? ADS are borderline impossible to kill so stop whining if you get killed by one of the few things able to actually do some damage to you. The Railgun turrets have crap range and a blindspot so big you can fit the MCC there so pay attention to your surroundings or fly a bit higher and you won't die. The blaster turrets do nearly nothing to a ADS flying a good distance away, the missile turrets usually have a greatly placed boulder in front of them and have a delay between firing and hitting the target so fly in an inconsistent route and not in a straight line, and as I said the railguns have no range and a massive blindspot. And as someone said earlier if you can't afford to lose it don't use it, if my team is being stomped by an army of heavies I throw the expensive loadouts away and take a militia forge gun.
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 790	Posted - 2014.08.15 01:58:00 - [50] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: ladwar wrote: I warned you all. 10k armor is just stupidity It's not really though. If anything redline turrets are less of an issue now then in Bravo when we had 2000m range missile turrets. The big question is why pilots are straying within less than 250m of the enemy redline. Since its only 250m if they are exactly level with the installation. We are talking less than the length your average socket here. It's a worrying prospect! It's pretty stupid that it takes 25% of my total ammo to kill a turret. (even more in redline because you gotta go in then come out and then go back in while those things can also repair themselves). *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3

Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 790	Posted - 2014.08.15 01:59:00 - [51] - Quote Abber Dietmart wrote: And I've yet to kill an ADS the few times I've used the turrets. Half the time you hit a shield booster or armor hardener and crash into a building and kill yourself. That's another thing, AV makes the dropships run out of control, especially railguns. FG not as much. Swarms do but not as much as railguns. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Anmol Singh G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 790	Posted - 2014.08.15 02:02:00 - [52] - Quote RYN0CER0S wrote: I would think most pilots would have some sort of AV fitting in play to combat whatever just took you down. Commando with Swarms and a Rifle, best Pilot fitting? Maybe a Rep Tool? it takes over 50% of reserved ammo on a prototype FG to kill an installation now. *Sagaris lover!!!* Commando <3
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2006	Posted - 2014.08.15 04:24:00 - [53] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: RYN0CER0S wrote: I would think most pilots would have some sort of AV fitting in play to combat whatever just took you down. Commando with Swarms and a Rifle, best Pilot fitting? Maybe a Rep Tool? it takes over 50% of reserved ammo on a prototype FG to kill an installation now. Or CCP could just give FGs a damage bonus on Instillations. It is a weapon based off mining technology after all. I have a lot of respect for Classic Logis. New Eden could use more Healers. Forums > Game: Biggest understatement ever
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3298	Posted - 2014.08.15 10:35:00 - [54] - Quote ladwar wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: ladwar wrote: I warned you all. 10k armor is just stupidity It's not really though. If anything redline turrets are less of an issue now then in Bravo when we had 2000m range missile turrets. The big question is why pilots are straying within less than 250m of the enemy redline. Since its only 250m if they are exactly level with the installation. We are talking less than the length your average socket here. It's a worrying prospect! Go play dom._ ashland is is freaking stupid bad and i ran a tank, not even a ads. Coming out of the redline and already taking fire. missiles stupid range was bad but not super game breaking because of stupid low dps I play dom almost exclusively, in an ADS. The objective and the 2 associated CRU's on the active field are allmfar enough away from each opponents red line to be out of the AI range at all times. As for manned ones, most of the playing field is out of their range and all, of them are close enough to the redline that you can simply kill the operator. @Anmol, I'll tell you why it takes half your reserve ammo to take out an installation. YOU'R NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DESTROYING INSTALLATIONS. CCP have said that on numerous occasions, the point of the turret buff is to stop you blowing them up for a couple of extra warpoints. They are supposed to be an important part of the battlefield not cannon fodder. If anything you are just giving evidence for a larger buff on these things since there still being blown up, far too easily. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 440	Posted - 2014.08.15 14:35:00 - [55] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Kam Elto wrote: If you can't afford to lose it, don't use it. Unless its a turret, in which case : use away. No risk, great gain. Also while I imagine that trope seems fresh and cool to you it fails in every way in regards to creating a fun and fair game. If you wanted to look like you do not understand the game, its future or it's players then your comment did you proud. If you wanted to look pithy and clever, then you failed on a scale that would not fit onto the Tranquility server, even if we wiped it clean to make space for all of your fail and then compressed it using the best zip software known to man. A fun and fair game, lol. You want to hover over the enemies spawn area unopposed in a flying tank killing infantry as they drop from the MCC and destroying any vehicle competition as it's called in? And if someone does manage to use AV you just speed away to safety? PLEASE!
GeneralButtNaked Fatal Absolution 1344	Posted - 2014.08.15 14:41:00 - [56] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Bro, do you even ADS? You certainly don't. Have a ground trooper clear the turrets before you take flight. Too bad ADS pilots cried so hard about the railgun tank, it would have came in real handy for you scrubs now. Mr Hybrid Vayu, tanker supreme. GBN: Prof 5 FG, HMG, SMG, AR, LR Prof 4 ScR RR, SR Proto Logi, Heavy, Assault.


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