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Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
3104
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 01:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
iliel wrote:Delta 749 wrote:iliel wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:
Dude, stop talking about "we" Cal scouts. You're giving "us" a bad name. You think you're some kind of spokesperson for all Cal scouts, let me break your bubble here. You're really not. The precision bonus needed a nerf especially in combination with the high slot numbers. You say you run triple precision enhancers? what is your problem here? with that setup you can still scan 95% of the players and you can now scan them from a greater distance too.
Jack 3enimble wrote:
What does my corp have to do with your thread? please point this out to me. And you did not really answer my question.
The point of my original post was not that the nerf makes my suit unplayable but that it makes it uncompetitive in relation to its current role. This is not to say the suit will no longer be competitive in any sense, but that it will no longer be competitive in relation to its hunting ability. You've suggested that this untrue: "you can still scan 95% of the players." I think that this suggestion reflects not only on you but your corp as a whole. Does this not answer your question - - "You say you run triple precision enhancers? what is your problem here?" I just have to say that this is a classic example of a non answer That is the best kind of answer there is.
I guess if you want to be regarded as a joke it sure is |
iliel
0uter.Heaven
101
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 01:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:
I guess if you want to be regarded as a joke it sure is
Given the question, yes, I did want my answer to be regarded as a joke. |
Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
990
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 01:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
Meh, by the time that I get 2.5 mil SP to spent on my Gal Assault the servers will be off.... |
Cass Caul
486
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Posted - 2014.08.12 01:52:00 -
[64] - Quote
I skilled into the Gallente Scout suit because. . . it was the only option at the time. Then I re-skilled into it because scouts lost a module from Chromo to Uprising and I needed at least 3 low slots. Then I skilled into Gallente Against becuase it had the best scan range.
I demand my Gallente Scout Skill Points be redistributed into my Caldari Scout.
I Skilled into Caldari Scout because of its bonus to Scan Precision. Now it's losing it and going to Amarr.
I demand my Caldari Scout Skill Points be redistributed to my Amarr Scout.
I skilled into Amarr Scout because. . . I had the other three at proto. You changed the role entirely. Now it's going to be useful. You should put it somewhere else. Redistribute it to Gallente Scout!
*Checks Character Sheet*
Thanks CCP!
Math is easy, you're just stupid.
The Empress of Alts
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iliel
0uter.Heaven
103
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 02:11:00 -
[65] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:I skilled into the Gallente Scout suit because. . . it was the only option at the time. Then I re-skilled into it because scouts lost a module from Chromo to Uprising and I needed at least 3 low slots. Then I skilled into Gallente Against becuase it had the best scan range.
I demand my Gallente Scout Skill Points be redistributed into my Caldari Scout.
I Skilled into Caldari Scout because of its bonus to Scan Precision. Now it's losing it and going to Amarr.
I demand my Caldari Scout Skill Points be redistributed to my Amarr Scout.
I skilled into Amarr Scout because. . . I had the other three at proto. You changed the role entirely. Now it's going to be useful. You should put it somewhere else. Redistribute it to Gallente Scout!
*Checks Character Sheet*
Thanks CCP!
Problem with this is that: during the first change (release of uprising and also a month after this), you did get to redistribute your points AND during the second (release of 1.8 and also a month or so after if you wrote a ticket), you again got to redistribute them.
Now, we don't get to change our role to be consistent with past choices.
Honestly, I don't understand your fourth point. I think you are trying to suggest that I just make up reasons to change my suit. Perhaps this is true. But then I don't understand why we had a chance to change it after Chrome and after 1.8. Or, I guess, if CCP is consistent, I don't understand why we had a chance to change them. One can always deny the presupposition here.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2344
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 02:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Here we go again.
I would agree.. about "again"
But this was the community and rattati's decision...
People who knew better warned that trying to shuffle and repurpose suit bonuses. is like slapping everyone in the face who made an informed well researched decision to go caldari scout.
The switching around of bonuses instead of making the suits under performing relevant through different means has created this problem.
It didn't need to happen but trying to Be lazy in balancing attempts has yielded this result EVERYTIME. At some point CCP can look back at history and learn.
Doing the same stupid shortsighted bullshit and listening to people who can't even fit half the suits in the game and wouldn't know where to start has created this time and time again.
A Bullshit solution, is still bullshit. |
Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
157
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 02:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:iliel wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:
Dude, stop talking about "we" Cal scouts. You're giving "us" a bad name. You think you're some kind of spokesperson for all Cal scouts, let me break your bubble here. You're really not. The precision bonus needed a nerf especially in combination with the high slot numbers. You say you run triple precision enhancers? what is your problem here? with that setup you can still scan 95% of the players and you can now scan them from a greater distance too.
Jack 3enimble wrote:
What does my corp have to do with your thread? please point this out to me. And you did not really answer my question.
The point of my original post was not that the nerf makes my suit unplayable but that it makes it uncompetitive in relation to its current role. This is not to say the suit will no longer be competitive in any sense, but that it will no longer be competitive in relation to its hunting ability. You've suggested that this untrue: "you can still scan 95% of the players." I think that this suggestion reflects not only on you but your corp as a whole. Does this not answer your question - - "You say you run triple precision enhancers? what is your problem here?" I just have to say that this is a classic example of a non answer
Thank you for pointing this out aswell
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iliel
0uter.Heaven
103
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 02:49:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jack 3enimble wrote:Delta 749 wrote:iliel wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:
Dude, stop talking about "we" Cal scouts. You're giving "us" a bad name. You think you're some kind of spokesperson for all Cal scouts, let me break your bubble here. You're really not. The precision bonus needed a nerf especially in combination with the high slot numbers. You say you run triple precision enhancers? what is your problem here? with that setup you can still scan 95% of the players and you can now scan them from a greater distance too.
Jack 3enimble wrote:
What does my corp have to do with your thread? please point this out to me. And you did not really answer my question.
The point of my original post was not that the nerf makes my suit unplayable but that it makes it uncompetitive in relation to its current role. This is not to say the suit will no longer be competitive in any sense, but that it will no longer be competitive in relation to its hunting ability. You've suggested that this untrue: "you can still scan 95% of the players." I think that this suggestion reflects not only on you but your corp as a whole. Does this not answer your question - - "You say you run triple precision enhancers? what is your problem here?" I just have to say that this is a classic example of a non answer Thank you for pointing this out aswell
yes, I agree, I was rude. decided to be rude in response to you being rude which was rude so I apologize.
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Broonfondle Majikthies
Dogs of War Gaming
1266
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 03:09:00 -
[69] - Quote
I'm not for respecs cus it shifts the entire playerbase.
We end up seeing a huge migration instead of a natural curve to new playstyles. This leads to, at the very least, an impression of unbalanced gamplay.
Just look what happend with the release of 1.8. Bang, right out of the gate with proto Cal scouts with inherent skills and we never once saw what the progression was like for new players (which should be the main focus) or for players seeking to start a new role.
Bottom line: Your Cal scouts are still fulfilling the same role, only at the expense of more modules (which you should have anyway) so ultimately there is no grounds for a respec. Amarr scout is indeed getting the bonus but the suit itself does not lend itself to that role, so it isn't going to be the hunter you want. It will only be easier to be a casual scout hunter for any prey stupid enough not to be dampend like most should.
"The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun"
"Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
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Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
403
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 03:13:00 -
[70] - Quote
Have you not recognized the pattern bro? Put more suits in your closet dude.
Saying what's on people's minds
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Ronan Elsword
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
282
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 03:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:They never gave us a respec when they torched the CPU on the Cal Logi in 1.4... why do you think you deserve one now?
Because I will give Rattati Cheese
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Mikey Ducati
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
375
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 03:26:00 -
[72] - Quote
This is the way of GD/dev nerfing. Most taxing, it is. |
Arcturis Vanguard
Murphys-Law
240
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 03:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:I'm not for respecs cus it shifts the entire playerbase.
We end up seeing a huge migration instead of a natural curve to new playstyles. This leads to, at the very least, an impression of unbalanced gamplay.
Just look what happend with the release of 1.8. Bang, right out of the gate with proto Cal scouts with inherent skills and we never once saw what the progression was like for new players (which should be the main focus) or for players seeking to start a new role.
Bottom line: Your Cal scouts are still fulfilling the same role, only at the expense of more modules (which you should have anyway) so ultimately there is no grounds for a respec. Amarr scout is indeed getting the bonus but the suit itself does not lend itself to that role, so it isn't going to be the hunter you want. It will only be easier to be a casual scout hunter for any prey stupid enough not to be dampend like most should.
Actually the amarr scout with two precision enhancers will practically be a mirror image to the "typical" calscout pre Charlie. Not 100% but Damn near close. With the adjustment to passive bonuses, all scouts will be able to be completely invisible to each other and the focused scanner built right and cloaked.
Amarr Heavy V
Amarr Assault V
Caldari Scout V
Caldari logistic IV
Prof V HMG & FORGE
Prof IV CR, SMG
Prof III ScR
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Maken Tosch
Dust University Ivy League
9028
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 04:01:00 -
[74] - Quote
Wait in the back of the line like the rest of the Eve Online players waiting eternally for a respec. :)
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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JONAHBENHUR
Inner.Hell
41
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 12:41:00 -
[75] - Quote
what is wall hack ?
"To be a man you must have honor, "HONOR AND A PENIS !!" -shinoske noharu
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RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
347
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 14:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
So, wait....
People complained about the Cal Scout CCP ignored it People complained LOUDER about the Cal Scout CCP ignored it People screamed from the mountains!!! about the Cal scout CCP fixes Cal Scout People complain from ON HIGH that the Cal Scout was fine and no changes were needed
Got it
lesson learned. If you don't want to get b!itch slapped, don't be a b!itch |
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3913
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 14:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
What should i say? my gallente scout is getting profile dampening and precision. The original bonuses where dampening+scan range which is now given to caldari. Just utter bollocks cause the caldari gets 10% scan range per lvl and the same dampening bonus too. With that it can scan out to insane ranges and aswell remain hidden without sacrificing slots for its main tanking which is shields.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2350
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 15:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:So, wait....
People complained about the Cal Scout CCP ignored it People complained LOUDER about the Cal Scout CCP ignored it People screamed from the mountains!!! about the Cal scout CCP fixes Cal Scout People complain from ON HIGH that the Cal Scout was fine and no changes were needed
Got it
lesson learned. If you don't want to get b!itch slapped, don't be a b!itch
I think the "Fixes" went over your head and general understanding of the game.
They didn't "Nerf" they took one bonus and completely re purposed it and changed it to a completely different race. There isn't much difference from what the cal scout was before to the now Amarr scout, except maybe the tank preference.
This would be fine. BUT, CCP gave everyone a chance to research and make informed decisions on the race that fits their playstyle. So people spent a week or two before they allocated their skills researching what they wanted out of their suit.
THEN a couple months later CCP takes the bonus that they chose the suit for, and puts it on a completely different race. Slapping the entire CCP concept of a well educated and researched skill allocation.
The entire purpose of a persistent skill system is pointless when CCP shuffles bonuses around like this.
The suits that where under performing should of been made relevant by different means then shuffling bonuses around. That is just lazy, short sighted... and frankly insulting to the community.
And the bonuses given to the Amarr, Galllente and Caldari... Don't even have any continuity with New Eden and how the races have operated there with strengths and weaknesses for over a decade. The bonus allocation was pulled out of someones ass and make no sense in the big picture of what makes that races strength and weakness, again.. that has been established for well over a decade on EVE..
One day CCP Rattati and the CPM's should sit down for 2 hours on skype and figure out the big picture of DUST or this IP... Because trying to focus on small issues to then try and fix the big picture is assbackwards. |
Hawkings Greenback
Red Star. EoN.
201
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 15:40:00 -
[79] - Quote
iliel wrote:The Cal Scout is no longer the same suit. For good or for bad you're decision to remove precision in Charlie has also made the suit into something that it was not. We Cal scout users did not choose this suit and therefore should not be forced to use it.
Please allow us to reallocate our skill points.
Or, if you want to restrict us somehow, please allow us to have the GM reallocate our Cal scout sp into the role we did choose - - now, the Amarr scout.
Thank you.
Beautifully crafted BS worthy of any politician. Have you ever considered a CPM role ?
Minmatar logi <3
Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally
Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
6292
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 16:34:00 -
[80] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:They never gave us a respec when they torched the CPU on the Cal Logi in 1.4... why do you think you deserve one now?
Really? Thats nothing. It still did it's role, and nothing else changed. No reason for a respec.
The only time they should give out respecs is when the changes radically change the suits ROLE.
Don't ask for handouts every time something small changes, lest they decide to never do it again.
FA's Stabber Extraordinaire
Minmatar Enthusiast
Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!
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RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
348
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 16:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:RayRay James wrote:So, wait....
People complained about the Cal Scout CCP ignored it People complained LOUDER about the Cal Scout CCP ignored it People screamed from the mountains!!! about the Cal scout CCP fixes Cal Scout People complain from ON HIGH that the Cal Scout was fine and no changes were needed
Got it
lesson learned. If you don't want to get b!itch slapped, don't be a b!itch I think the "Fixes" went over your head and general understanding of the game. They didn't "Nerf" they took one bonus and completely re purposed it and changed it to a completely different race. There isn't much difference from what the cal scout was before to the now Amarr scout, except maybe the tank preference. This would be fine. BUT, CCP gave everyone a chance to research and make informed decisions on the race that fits their playstyle. So people spent a week or two before they allocated their skills researching what they wanted out of their suit. THEN a couple months later CCP takes the bonus that they chose the suit for, and puts it on a completely different race. Slapping the entire CCP concept of a well educated and researched skill allocation. The entire purpose of a persistent skill system is pointless when CCP shuffles bonuses around like this.The suits that where under performing should of been made relevant by different means then shuffling bonuses around. That is just lazy, short sighted... and frankly insulting to the community. And the bonuses given to the Amarr, Galllente and Caldari... Don't even have any continuity with New Eden and how the races have operated there with strengths and weaknesses for over a decade. The bonus allocation was pulled out of someones ass and make no sense in the big picture of what makes that races strength and weakness, again.. that has been established for well over a decade on EVE.. One day CCP Rattati and the CPM's should sit down for 2 hours on skype and figure out the big picture of DUST or this IP... Because trying to focus on small issues to then try and fix the big picture is assbackwards.
I'm completely aware of what they did.
I've also been dealing with CCP for near a decade. They do whatever they want. Lore be damned.
How have you not learned that they're using us to beta Legion stats at this point.
Also, take a look at some of the rebalancing they're doing in the next expansion on EVE. They're taking a drone HAC, something that takes moths to train into, and making it less of a drone ship.
These 'rebalancings' are nothing new. They are based on knee jerk reactions to whining on the forums. The same forums that I was mocking in my original post. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1288
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
I've been saving SP ever since Charlie was announced.
Perhaps if the OP had more foresight, he might be saving SP rather than clogging the forums asking for a respec that won't happen. |
iliel
0uter.Heaven
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:I'm not for respecs cus it shifts the entire playerbase.
We end up seeing a huge migration instead of a natural curve to new playstyles. This leads to, at the very least, an impression of unbalanced gamplay.
. . .
Bottom line: Your Cal scouts are still fulfilling the same role
I can't argue with your first point. Perhaps players will migrate.
My point is that I want to maintain my current playstyle (I, at the expense of a lot of HP, and my enemy both scan each other - - unless my enemy is a double damped Gal Scout).
Therefore, I disagree with your second point: my role is changing - - I'm going from a hunter to a ghost.
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iliel
0uter.Heaven
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
Krixus Flux wrote:Have you not recognized the pattern bro? Put more suits in your closet dude.
If I had more SP, then this wouldn't be a problem. However, that doesn't exactly fix the issue itself - - an issue which at least I think affects many other (not all) people in my position. |
iliel
0uter.Heaven
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
Arcturis Vanguard wrote:Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:I'm not for respecs cus it shifts the entire playerbase.
We end up seeing a huge migration instead of a natural curve to new playstyles. This leads to, at the very least, an impression of unbalanced gamplay.
Just look what happend with the release of 1.8. Bang, right out of the gate with proto Cal scouts with inherent skills and we never once saw what the progression was like for new players (which should be the main focus) or for players seeking to start a new role.
Bottom line: Your Cal scouts are still fulfilling the same role, only at the expense of more modules (which you should have anyway) so ultimately there is no grounds for a respec. Amarr scout is indeed getting the bonus but the suit itself does not lend itself to that role, so it isn't going to be the hunter you want. It will only be easier to be a casual scout hunter for any prey stupid enough not to be dampend like most should. Actually the amarr scout with two precision enhancers will practically be a mirror image to the "typical" calscout pre Charlie. Not 100% but Damn near close. With the adjustment to passive bonuses, all scouts will be able to be completely invisible to each other and the focused scanner built right and cloaked. The calscout with full precision will have such a bad scan that it would honestly be better off running tank and gank.
It will be a close mirror. The difference is that, unlike the original Cal Scout, the Amarr will likely only be able to scan non-scouts, most other Amarr Scouts, and most Min scouts. Both Cals and Gals will almost always be invisible from now on. |
iliel
0uter.Heaven
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Wait in the back of the line like the rest of the Eve Online players waiting eternally for a respec. :)
|
iliel
0uter.Heaven
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:19:00 -
[87] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:So, wait....
People complained about the Cal Scout CCP ignored it People complained LOUDER about the Cal Scout CCP ignored it People screamed from the mountains!!! about the Cal scout CCP fixes Cal Scout People complain from ON HIGH that the Cal Scout was fine and no changes were needed
Got it
lesson learned. If you don't want to get b!itch slapped, don't be a b!itch
Is this a criticism or promotion? |
iliel
0uter.Heaven
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:23:00 -
[88] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:What should i say? my gallente scout is getting profile dampening and precision. The original bonuses where dampening+scan range which is now given to caldari. Just utter bollocks cause the caldari gets 10% scan range per lvl and the same dampening bonus too. With that it can scan out to insane ranges and aswell remain hidden without sacrificing slots for its main tanking which is shields.
Come on - - you know better than this: how can a Cal Scout scan to insane ranges AND remain hidden?
Anyway, I'd be more than happy if they reversed it. |
iliel
0uter.Heaven
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:25:00 -
[89] - Quote
Hawkings Greenback wrote:iliel wrote:The Cal Scout is no longer the same suit. For good or for bad you're decision to remove precision in Charlie has also made the suit into something that it was not. We Cal scout users did not choose this suit and therefore should not be forced to use it.
Please allow us to reallocate our skill points.
Or, if you want to restrict us somehow, please allow us to have the GM reallocate our Cal scout sp into the role we did choose - - now, the Amarr scout.
Thank you. Beautifully crafted BS worthy of any politician. Have you ever considered a CPM role ?
I was not crafted for politics. |
iliel
0uter.Heaven
115
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:28:00 -
[90] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:They never gave us a respec when they torched the CPU on the Cal Logi in 1.4... why do you think you deserve one now? Really? Thats nothing. It still did it's role, and nothing else changed. No reason for a respec. The only time they should give out respecs is when the changes radically change the suits ROLE. Don't ask for handouts every time something small changes, lest they decide to never do it again.
Thanks, Kaisar. I can only hope that such levelheadedness helps encourage CCP to balance the Min Scout with the rest (though I suspect they want to witness the new power of the knives first). |
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