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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3811
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alot of people complain that vehicles are "too hard to kill" cause they retreat at the slightest sign of AV. The problem here is that allmost nobody has actually the balls to hunt them down. Which means you play AV for the entire match just to blow them up. Another problem is nobody bothers to actually team up or use existing resources and knowledge avaible. So lets talk about how to play AV:
-the stationary rock with a forgegun:
this is by far the most common way that AV players are chosing. Sitting in a spot and waiting for a vehicle to come by. Problem is that this method is easy to predict and aswell easy to counter. Which is basically wasting resources.
-The suicidal moron:
be it a heavy that runs stright at a tank or a medium frame with a swarm launcher. Attacking vehicles while there is hostile infantry around them is just suicidal and again waste of ISK cause you will die.
-Stealth AV:
Scouts with swarm launchers trying to sneak past infantry and attacking hostile vehicles. This can work but most of the time the ADS or tank will be aible to escape 8 out of 10 times.
-Organised AV play in combination with vehicles:
This might sound blasphemic but combining the mobility of a LAV/dropship with the firepower of forgeguns is devestating. However you will need a talented driver/pilot for this. If you do this with at least 2 forgegunners you can counter all vehicles without issues. The key is to actually get BEHIND a tank and follow it with some safety distance, once it stops moving you jump out with your buddy and start shoting the tank. Be sure to quickly escape with your vehicle once the job is done or angry infantry will come after you.
Out of all options the last one is the strategy which is the most successfull. You could argue about coordinated breach forgeguns but in most cases they just suck due to their long charge time. It is not the issue that AV doesnt work its more of a problem that people dont actually try to kill vehicles. Teamwork is the key and it is a joy to hunt tanks with a LAV.
New shield module!
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
3090
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
So, on a skirmish map with lots of objectives that need defended, you should have several people per tank dedicated to taking out just one player?
Yeah, sounds legit.
This is how a minja feels
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3222
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Alot of people complain that vehicles are "too hard to kill" cause they retreat at the slightest sign of AV. The problem here is that allmost nobody has actually the balls to hunt them down. Which means you play AV for the entire match just to blow them up. Another problem is nobody bothers to actually team up or use existing resources and knowledge avaible. So lets talk about how to play AV:
-the stationary rock with a forgegun:
this is by far the most common way that AV players are chosing. Sitting in a spot and waiting for a vehicle to come by. Problem is that this method is easy to predict and aswell easy to counter. Which is basically wasting resources.
-The suicidal moron:
be it a heavy that runs stright at a tank or a medium frame with a swarm launcher. Attacking vehicles while there is hostile infantry around them is just suicidal and again waste of ISK cause you will die.
-Stealth AV:
Scouts with swarm launchers trying to sneak past infantry and attacking hostile vehicles. This can work but most of the time the ADS or tank will be aible to escape 8 out of 10 times.
-Organised AV play in combination with vehicles:
This might sound blasphemic but combining the mobility of a LAV/dropship with the firepower of forgeguns is devestating. However you will need a talented driver/pilot for this. If you do this with at least 2 forgegunners you can counter all vehicles without issues. The key is to actually get BEHIND a tank and follow it with some safety distance, once it stops moving you jump out with your buddy and start shoting the tank. Be sure to quickly escape with your vehicle once the job is done or angry infantry will come after you.
Out of all options the last one is the strategy which is the most successfull. You could argue about coordinated breach forgeguns but in most cases they just suck due to their long charge time. It is not the issue that AV doesnt work its more of a problem that people dont actually try to kill vehicles. Teamwork is the key and it is a joy to hunt tanks with a LAV.
No the reason people complain about vehicles retreating, is beause most people assume that AVing should only require one application and that suppressing a vehicle is a bad thing.
If you are AV your job is not to destroy vehicles, but stop vehicles from slaughtering your team.
Destroying them is only a perk not a necessity.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Justice Prevails
321
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Depends on the mode. Mainly play domo/ambush and my main goal in my commando suit is to keep the vehicles off the objective. If I get the kill cool, but making them run is just as effective. If they keep coming, that's why I pack nanohives.
Embracing my inner scrub since 2013.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16068
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scuse me but the suicidal moron gets the job done far too often.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3223
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Scuse me but the suicidal moron gets the job done far too often.
Indeed they do, mostly because the tanker is to busy blasting to hear allmtje RE's strapped to his back.
Heh heh tank go bye bye!
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Atiim
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11203
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 00:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Any Pilot who has ever faced me will know that my AV Methods are incredibly suicidal. However, due to the strength of CRs and the Matari Commando's bonus, I tend to survive most times.
Though I will note that a Light Frame with a Swarm Launcher is quite possibly the most garbage AV setup I've ever heard of. You won't be killing anything beyond an LAV or Scrub Pilot with that.
Assuming your using the Swarm Launcher, the best tactic is to wait until the HAV comes to a complete stop. Fire the first volley backwards, and then fire the next ones forward. The 2 Swarms hitting in an instant will allow you to alpha through it's shields, and the 3rd will negate any attempt to heal itself with a Shield Hardener, while also cutting into it's armor.
This tactic also works against Madrugars. though you'll need to circle strafe and bunnyhop to evade the 80GJ Blaster. While this may seem a bit much, I'd also suggest placing Proximity Explosives in areas to block escape routes. While they won't actually kill the HAV, the Pilot will have to stop in order to destroy them, which can buy you additional time.
I suggest anyone who has issues with killing HAVs invest into Matari Commandos
The only vehicle which can actually be considered as completely superior to Infantry is the Assault Dropship, as it's DPS guarantees that it won't go down without a fight, and it's evasion abilities removes the risk of being killed by anything beyond Q-synced FGs/80GJ Railguns.
Quite possibly the most low-risk role DUST has ever offered.
If I don't, who will?
-HAND
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Atiim
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11203
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Destroying them is only a perk not a necessity.
This advocates the ideal that a Vehicle pilot should never be put at a significant risk for loosing their vehicle.
Do I need to get into why this is terrible game design, again?
If I don't, who will?
-HAND
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
5630
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Posted - 2014.08.03 00:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Any Pilot who has ever faced me will know that my AV Methods are incredibly suicidal. However, due to the strength of CRs and the Matari Commando's bonus, I tend to survive most times.
Though I will note that a Light Frame with a Swarm Launcher is quite possibly the most garbage AV setup I've ever heard of. You won't be killing anything beyond an LAV or Scrub Pilot with that.
Assuming your using the Swarm Launcher, the best tactic is to wait until the HAV comes to a complete stop. Fire the first volley backwards, and then fire the next ones forward. The 2 Swarms hitting in an instant will allow you to alpha through it's shields, and the 3rd will negate any attempt to heal itself with a Shield Hardener, while also cutting into it's armor.
This tactic also works against Madrugars. though you'll need to circle strafe and bunnyhop to evade the 80GJ Blaster. While this may seem a bit much, I'd also suggest placing Proximity Explosives in areas to block escape routes. While they won't actually kill the HAV, the Pilot will have to stop in order to destroy them, which can buy you additional time.
I suggest anyone who has issues with killing HAVs invest into Matari Commandos
The only vehicle which can actually be considered as completely superior to Infantry is the Assault Dropship, as it's DPS guarantees that it won't go down without a fight, and it's evasion abilities removes the risk of being killed by anything beyond Q-synced FGs/80GJ Railguns.
Quite possibly the most low-risk role DUST has ever offered.
ACtually, thmy Scout with R/E and Swarms gets the job done most of the times, of course if i dont find enemy infantry on the way that is.
The best Damage mod is a HEADSHOT....
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16069
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Posted - 2014.08.03 01:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
To iterate;
HAV Blaster
4 Infantry escorts
Ran in like an idiot threw my nades and swarm launched twice as I ran in and rodeoed the HAV a short bit; killed it in the end despite his escort trying to kill me the entire time.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
5631
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Posted - 2014.08.03 01:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:To iterate;
HAV Blaster
4 Infantry escorts
Ran in like an idiot threw my nades and swarm launched twice as I ran in and rodeoed the HAV a short bit; killed it in the end despite his escort trying to kill me the entire time.
IWS is a pro AV'er. huh.
The best Damage mod is a HEADSHOT....
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3225
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Posted - 2014.08.03 01:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Destroying them is only a perk not a necessity.
This advocates the ideal that a Vehicle pilot should never be put at a significant risk for loosing their vehicle. Do I need to get into why this is terrible game design, again?
Oh no there is most certainly a risk, but a good enough pilot will retreat before that risk can be realised.
After all if they disappear of to the redline to lick their wounds your job as AV has been successful.
You are a deterrent, which necetates you being a threat.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12513
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Posted - 2014.08.03 01:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So, on a skirmish map with lots of objectives that need defended, you should have several people per tank dedicated to taking out just one player?
Yeah, sounds legit.
Why not.
If you feel I should be removed from the map then you need to take a proactive stance against me. Do not expect to sit still and one shot me, do not expect to be able to kill easily a skilled player who operates vehicles.
To be fair is certainly not as easy as it once was to tank av not slay dozens of infantry. Right now AV has **** all they should be complaining about VS Tank balance.....however I could stand to see swarm speeds a little faster to hit HAV as they try to disengage a bit more reliably.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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danthrax martin
Butcher's Nails
105
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Posted - 2014.08.03 02:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
I like being a suicidal moron. Going against the odds makes things enjoyable for me vs. vehicles. I think i may even hold the record for deaths in a commando suit.
Fatty Fat Fat gk.0 - HMG / Duvolle
Noob DS Ferryman
Suicidal A/V Moron
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16070
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 02:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:To iterate;
HAV Blaster
4 Infantry escorts
Ran in like an idiot threw my nades and swarm launched twice as I ran in and rodeoed the HAV a short bit; killed it in the end despite his escort trying to kill me the entire time. IWS is a pro AV'er. huh.
I have yet met a vehicle pilot I couldn't blow up.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1743
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Posted - 2014.08.03 02:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:To iterate;
HAV Blaster
4 Infantry escorts
Ran in like an idiot threw my nades and swarm launched twice as I ran in and rodeoed the HAV a short bit; killed it in the end despite his escort trying to kill me the entire time. IWS is a pro AV'er. huh. I have yet met a vehicle pilot I couldn't blow up.
Neither have I.
Forge guns of all types for everyone FOREVER! |
Everything Dies
BIKINI BOTTOM BRIGADE
886
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 02:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Atiim wrote: Though I will note that a Light Frame with a Swarm Launcher is quite possibly the most garbage AV setup I've ever heard of. You won't be killing anything beyond an LAV or Scrub Pilot with that.
*ahem*
Some of us kind of like using our Gal scouts for swarm purposes. Two complex damage mods, four basic plates, Wiyrkomi SL, AV grenade, compact nanohive and a cloak are what I use to try and sneak unseen before opening fire on a tank. As others have stated, I'm less concerned with blowing up tanks (though I take out my fair share of Somas/Maddys) than I am with running them off. Same applies to dropships.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof:
Listen
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12514
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Posted - 2014.08.03 02:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:To iterate;
HAV Blaster
4 Infantry escorts
Ran in like an idiot threw my nades and swarm launched twice as I ran in and rodeoed the HAV a short bit; killed it in the end despite his escort trying to kill me the entire time. IWS is a pro AV'er. huh. I have yet met a vehicle pilot I couldn't blow up.
You know maybe its just my luck or the TZ but I've never seen you or Atiim in game......
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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ladwar
HEARTS OF PHOENIX
2028
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Posted - 2014.08.03 02:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:To iterate;
HAV Blaster
4 Infantry escorts
Ran in like an idiot threw my nades and swarm launched twice as I ran in and rodeoed the HAV a short bit; killed it in the end despite his escort trying to kill me the entire time. IWS is a pro AV'er. huh. I have yet met a vehicle pilot I couldn't blow up.
Bet, i seen you a few times and after each time there is a patch to nerf what i was using shortly after
Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet.
I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth
doing reviews in free time, want 1?
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Atiim
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11206
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 02:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Atiim wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Destroying them is only a perk not a necessity.
This advocates the ideal that a Vehicle pilot should never be put at a significant risk for loosing their vehicle. Do I need to get into why this is terrible game design, again? Oh no there is most certainly a risk, but a good enough pilot will retreat before that risk can be realised. After all if they disappear of to the redline to lick their wounds your job as AV has been successful. You are a deterrent, which necessitates you being a threat.
If I can execute a list of tasks which ensure success, (for example, using the AB after getting hit), then no I am not at risk for loosing my vehicle because I will never lose it, and I am aware of that.
The buffs to the Python in Hotfix Charlie will easily make a good example of the above.
If I don't, who will?
-HAND
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Atiim
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11209
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Posted - 2014.08.03 02:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
You know maybe its just my luck or the TZ but I've never seen you or Atiim in game......
I saw you once, but I was on my brother's character, "Zepod".
Though you were using a CRW, and I wasn't really doing much.
If I don't, who will?
-HAND
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3277
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Posted - 2014.08.03 03:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Best AV for an HAV is another HAV.
Best AV for an ADS is to leave the game.
> Check RND out here
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1018
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Posted - 2014.08.03 03:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
There are lots of strategies for AV and they each have their uses in certain situations. The LAV and two forges used to be one of the few viable ones but now it is usually no longer necessary, it also makes you more vulnerable to dropships. Now an ADS, or a few, are my main challenge, there are tankers who can beat me but no tanks that can, although some are still very difficult. I feel though that there are ADS's that beat me, and not just their pilots. It is nowhere near the level tanks were though.
Because, that's why.
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
E-R-A
244
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Posted - 2014.08.03 09:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Theses av players as you call them, pulls up FG/swarms and think that they can just blow it up. Just like that with once clip (well fg does).
They complian about not being able to destroy a veh and swarms being not as good as they should be. But these swarms eats 1,9k armror and 1,4k on hardeners.
They dont know whats strategy is. Nor remotes or how to ambush a veh.
For ADS. Latly i found that after FG and Rails..
Missiles are fking amazing vs them.
When they stop for a sec (they will) you can wreck them. Incubus needs 5-6 rockets only and python like 10.
-~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~-
Markiplier fan.
Hollywood Undead ,rocks.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3230
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Posted - 2014.08.03 10:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Atiim wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Destroying them is only a perk not a necessity.
This advocates the ideal that a Vehicle pilot should never be put at a significant risk for loosing their vehicle. Do I need to get into why this is terrible game design, again? Oh no there is most certainly a risk, but a good enough pilot will retreat before that risk can be realised. After all if they disappear of to the redline to lick their wounds your job as AV has been successful. You are a deterrent, which necessitates you being a threat. If I can execute a list of tasks which ensure success, (for example, using the AB after getting hit), then no I am not at risk for loosing my vehicle because I will never lose it, and I am aware of that. The buffs to the Python in Hotfix Charlie will easily make a good example of the above.
I am against the python buffs in Charlie, but let's look at now most dropships will require 4/5 shots from a swarm launcher, which requires a reload, as pilot you are given an opportunity to retreat at this point.
Staying beyond this point causes the death of your dropship more often than not, afterburners included.
If you were not at Risk of loosing your vehicle you wouldn't leave in the first place.
Not giving an opportunity to leave is unfair, because the pilot has no time to react and as soon as you begin engaging him, his best option is to abondon ship. As much as you and I both like blowing vehickes Atiim, if your aren't given an opportunity to retreat why bother with vehicles at all?
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Medical Crash
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
360
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Posted - 2014.08.03 11:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Best AV for an HAV is another HAV.
Best AV for an ADS is toRAM HIM WITH ANOTHER ADS.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3585
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Posted - 2014.08.03 11:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Atiim wrote:
Though I will note that a Light Frame with a Swarm Launcher is quite possibly the most garbage AV setup I've ever heard of. You won't be killing anything beyond an LAV or Scrub Pilot with that.
REs + Flux / AV Nade
(don't even waste time with the swarm launcher)
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Coleman Gray
Haus of Triage
987
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Posted - 2014.08.03 12:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
This pretty much, takes I'd say two AV spec mercs to take down a tank, with my commando PC and CR fitting I solo milita fit tanks and near enough kill madrugars and gunnlogi's before they escape and I think.."if only one of the other 15 people took on an AV role as well.."
Another problem AV DO face is lack of support, while their taking on vehicles it's easy to lose track of enemy positions. This is where AV needs help, getting enemy infantry of their backs.
If Preparation is half of the battle and knowing is the other half, Then there is no need to fight.
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3678
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Posted - 2014.08.03 13:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
You forgot the 5th option
Cry on the forums to nerf vehicles and anything to do with vehicles to make them useless in PC because idiots only balance for pubs |
Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
203
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Posted - 2014.08.03 13:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:You forgot the 5th option
Cry on the forums to nerf vehicles and anything to do with vehicles to make them useless in PC because idiots only balance for pubs
But also, idiots only balance for PC
Ei fu,
xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1207
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Posted - 2014.08.03 13:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:
-Organised AV play in combination with vehicles:
This might sound blasphemic but combining the mobility of a LAV/dropship with the firepower of forgeguns is devestating. However you will need a talented driver/pilot for this. If you do this with at least 2 forgegunners you can counter all vehicles without issues. The key is to actually get BEHIND a tank and follow it with some safety distance, once it stops moving you jump out with your buddy and start shoting the tank. Be sure to quickly escape with your vehicle once the job is done or angry infantry will come after you.
Out of all options the last one is the strategy which is the most successfull. You could argue about coordinated breach forgeguns but in most cases they just suck due to their long charge time. It is not the issue that AV doesnt work its more of a problem that people dont actually try to kill vehicles. Teamwork is the key and it is a joy to hunt tanks with a LAV.
Confirming that to be a recipe for tank deaths.
People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
224
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Posted - 2014.08.03 13:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
i personally feel that if commando were easier to unlock more people would be commando and use a main weapon+PLC/Swarm that way they got both attack vs inf AND vehicle.. hey and even spare Equip slot for MOAR AMMO!
sadly this isnt the case and the OP is correct.. you switch to AV tactics and you get gunned down by inf which yes is how it is meant to be cause a vehicles best defense should be infantry support but it is ungodly frustrating when you cant even live long enough to mount some sort of attack on a vehicle long enough to push it back so your not just getting corralled inside a building then WTFBOOOOOOOOOM'd by an orbital
Logibro in training.
Weapon Damage Profiles Quick List
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Atiim
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11219
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Posted - 2014.08.03 14:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
Not giving an opportunity to leave is unfair, because the pilot has no time to react and as soon as you begin engaging him, his best option is to abondon ship. As much as you and I both like blowing vehickes up Atiim, if your aren't given an opportunity to retreat why bother with vehicles at all?
I'm not saying they shouldn't have an opportunity to escape, I'm saying they shouldn't have a guarantee to escape.
If I don't, who will?
-HAND
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3231
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Posted - 2014.08.03 15:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Not giving an opportunity to leave is unfair, because the pilot has no time to react and as soon as you begin engaging him, his best option is to abondon ship. As much as you and I both like blowing vehickes up Atiim, if your aren't given an opportunity to retreat why bother with vehicles at all?
I'm not saying they shouldn't have an opportunity to escape, I'm saying they shouldn't have a guarantee to escape.
Escape isn't guaranteed, but there is plenty of opportunity for a pilot knows when to escape!
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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H0riz0n Unlimit
1.U.P
99
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Posted - 2014.08.03 16:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:You forgot the 5th option
Cry on the forums to nerf vehicles and anything to do with vehicles to make them useless in PC because idiots only balance for pubs But also, idiots only balance for PC
Mmm......no
Tanker since I was born -- Want back my blaster -- Madrugar 1125/6753 -- Reduce weakspot dimension
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Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
94
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Posted - 2014.08.03 16:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Atiim wrote:Any Pilot who has ever faced me will know that my AV Methods are incredibly suicidal. However, due to the strength of CRs and the Matari Commando's bonus, I tend to survive most times.
Though I will note that a Light Frame with a Swarm Launcher is quite possibly the most garbage AV setup I've ever heard of. You won't be killing anything beyond an LAV or Scrub Pilot with that.
Assuming your using the Swarm Launcher, the best tactic is to wait until the HAV comes to a complete stop. Fire the first volley backwards, and then fire the next ones forward. The 2 Swarms hitting in an instant will allow you to alpha through it's shields, and the 3rd will negate any attempt to heal itself with a Shield Hardener, while also cutting into it's armor.
This tactic also works against Madrugars. though you'll need to circle strafe and bunnyhop to evade the 80GJ Blaster. While this may seem a bit much, I'd also suggest placing Proximity Explosives in areas to block escape routes. While they won't actually kill the HAV, the Pilot will have to stop in order to destroy them, which can buy you additional time.
I suggest anyone who has issues with killing HAVs invest into Matari Commandos
The only vehicle which can actually be considered as completely superior to Infantry is the Assault Dropship, as it's DPS guarantees that it won't go down without a fight, and it's evasion abilities removes the risk of being killed by anything beyond Q-synced FGs/80GJ Railguns.
Quite possibly the most low-risk role DUST has ever offered. ACtually, my Scout with R/E and Swarms gets the job done most of the times, of course if i dont find enemy infantry on the way that is.
It is my most succesfull AV fit.
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Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
94
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Posted - 2014.08.03 16:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:You forgot the 5th option
Cry on the forums to nerf vehicles and anything to do with vehicles to make them useless in PC because idiots only balance for pubs
i wouldn't speak of people who cry on the forums if I were you... |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
2321
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 16:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Destroying them is only a perk not a necessity.
This advocates the ideal that a Vehicle pilot should never be put at a significant risk for loosing their vehicle. Do I need to get into why this is terrible game design, again?
Monkey is special. go through his post history.. he has spent more time defending OP imbalanced features then nearly anyone active on these forums today.
It gets him likes. *shrugs* |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
1130
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 17:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So, on a skirmish map with lots of objectives that need defended, you should have several people per tank dedicated to taking out just one player?
Yeah, sounds legit.
? umm no.
I wasn't aware that you needed to hold every single point?
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
546
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 17:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So, on a skirmish map with lots of objectives that need defended, you should have several people per tank dedicated to taking out just one player?
Yeah, sounds legit.
Ah, please remember to only do 1v1 when you do infantry vs infantry fights because 2v1 would be both unbalanced (because you need to use 2 against 1) and also wasting 1 or more mercs. They could be doing something useful you know, like killing someone else, or hacking an objective, etc...
So, if you refuse to do 2v1 against vehicles to kill them faster and more easily, remember to also refuse to do 2v1 against infantry.
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Dark Taboo
1552
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 17:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:One Eyed King wrote:So, on a skirmish map with lots of objectives that need defended, you should have several people per tank dedicated to taking out just one player?
Yeah, sounds legit. Ah, please remember to only do 1v1 when you do infantry vs infantry fights because 2v1 would be both unbalanced (because you need to use 2 against 1) and also wasting 1 or more mercs. They could be doing something useful you know, like killing someone else, or hacking an objective, etc... So, if you refuse to do 2v1 against vehicles to kill them faster and more easily, remember to also refuse to do 2v1 against infantry.
Seems like the point went straight over your head. 1v2 infantry makes it easier for the pair to kill a the 1, not a NECESSITY like 1 vehicle against 2+ AV.
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Vermaak 88: Still an obscure reference
Still not whole.
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
546
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 18:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:One Eyed King wrote:So, on a skirmish map with lots of objectives that need defended, you should have several people per tank dedicated to taking out just one player?
Yeah, sounds legit. Ah, please remember to only do 1v1 when you do infantry vs infantry fights because 2v1 would be both unbalanced (because you need to use 2 against 1) and also wasting 1 or more mercs. They could be doing something useful you know, like killing someone else, or hacking an objective, etc... So, if you refuse to do 2v1 against vehicles to kill them faster and more easily, remember to also refuse to do 2v1 against infantry. Seems like the point went straight over your head. 1v2 infantry makes it easier for the pair to kill a the 1, not a NECESSITY like 1 vehicle against 2+ AV.
And since when has 2+ AV against 1 vehicle been a necessity? I can name a lot of AV players that can kill any vehicle pilot all on their own. Maybe not succeeding in doing that every time, but then again infantry doesn't always succeed in killing infantry either.
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Dauth Jenkins
Merc-0107
555
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 18:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Alot of people complain that vehicles are "too hard to kill" cause they retreat at the slightest sign of AV. The problem here is that allmost nobody has actually the balls to hunt them down. Which means you play AV for the entire match just to blow them up. Another problem is nobody bothers to actually team up or use existing resources and knowledge avaible. So lets talk about how to play AV:
-the stationary rock with a forgegun:
this is by far the most common way that AV players are chosing. Sitting in a spot and waiting for a vehicle to come by. Problem is that this method is easy to predict and aswell easy to counter. Which is basically wasting resources.
-The suicidal moron:
be it a heavy that runs stright at a tank or a medium frame with a swarm launcher. Attacking vehicles while there is hostile infantry around them is just suicidal and again waste of ISK cause you will die.
-Stealth AV:
Scouts with swarm launchers trying to sneak past infantry and attacking hostile vehicles. This can work but most of the time the ADS or tank will be aible to escape 8 out of 10 times.
-Organised AV play in combination with vehicles:
This might sound blasphemic but combining the mobility of a LAV/dropship with the firepower of forgeguns is devestating. However you will need a talented driver/pilot for this. If you do this with at least 2 forgegunners you can counter all vehicles without issues. The key is to actually get BEHIND a tank and follow it with some safety distance, once it stops moving you jump out with your buddy and start shoting the tank. Be sure to quickly escape with your vehicle once the job is done or angry infantry will come after you.
Out of all options the last one is the strategy which is the most successfull. You could argue about coordinated breach forgeguns but in most cases they just suck due to their long charge time. It is not the issue that AV doesnt work its more of a problem that people dont actually try to kill vehicles. Teamwork is the key and it is a joy to hunt tanks with a LAV.
Yea, in my python I have the hardest time dealing with LAV Forge heavies, as they can follow me around the map. Also, those light railguns are crazy. Sometimes theirs no indication your being hit other that your shields dropping.
-Sincerely
--The Dual Swarm Commando
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Dauth Jenkins
Merc-0107
555
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 18:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Destroying them is only a perk not a necessity.
This advocates the ideal that a Vehicle pilot should never be put at a significant risk for loosing their vehicle. Do I need to get into why this is terrible game design, again?
Maybe when they fix the maps so red line tanks can't sit in the red line the entire time... I'm looking at YOU, domination Manus Peak.
-Sincerely
--The Dual Swarm Commando
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Void Echo
Total Extinction
2659
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 19:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:To iterate;
HAV Blaster
4 Infantry escorts
Ran in like an idiot threw my nades and swarm launched twice as I ran in and rodeoed the HAV a short bit; killed it in the end despite his escort trying to kill me the entire time. IWS is a pro AV'er. huh. I have yet met a vehicle pilot I couldn't blow up.
have you forgotten our little skirmish fight already?
you spent half the game going after my madrugar with swarms and I kept killing you with my railgun, you have never killed my tanks before.
Closed Beta Vet.
PSN: Helix-Void_Echo
Only the strongest can do Good and the weakest do Evil- Void Echo
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Void Echo
Total Extinction
2659
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 19:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So, on a skirmish map with lots of objectives that need defended, you should have several people per tank dedicated to taking out just one player?
Yeah, sounds legit.
so, you infantry guys are STILL too damn stupid to use the same 3 people to kill all the tanks in every game?
Closed Beta Vet.
PSN: Helix-Void_Echo
Only the strongest can do Good and the weakest do Evil- Void Echo
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16091
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 22:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:To iterate;
HAV Blaster
4 Infantry escorts
Ran in like an idiot threw my nades and swarm launched twice as I ran in and rodeoed the HAV a short bit; killed it in the end despite his escort trying to kill me the entire time. IWS is a pro AV'er. huh. I have yet met a vehicle pilot I couldn't blow up. have you forgotten our little skirmish fight already? you spent half the game going after my madrugar with swarms and I kept killing you with my railgun, you have never killed my tanks before.
Oh that? that was about 2 months ago; I was being cheap that day since I was trying to get more flight hours in but ADS are rather expensive. Skinweave Logi with Dren Launcher with hives racks up quite a bit of WP for higher isk payouts.
You specifically only got me once with the railgun; the other guy nailed me about 3 times.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12539
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 22:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Oh that? that was about 2 months ago; I was being cheap that day since I was trying to get more flight hours in but ADS are rather expensive. Skinweave Logi with Dren Launcher with hives racks up quite a bit of WP for higher isk payouts.
You specifically only got me once with the railgun; the other guy nailed me about 3 times.
Oh you ADS......... thats barely even AVing....that's remaining impervious to HAV while outputting massive damage.......
Pick up that Wyrkomi and challenge this man to a duel.
ADS is quite literally the most lethal thing in this game right now.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Void Echo
Total Extinction
2659
|
Posted - 2014.08.03 23:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Void Echo wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:To iterate;
HAV Blaster
4 Infantry escorts
Ran in like an idiot threw my nades and swarm launched twice as I ran in and rodeoed the HAV a short bit; killed it in the end despite his escort trying to kill me the entire time. IWS is a pro AV'er. huh. I have yet met a vehicle pilot I couldn't blow up. have you forgotten our little skirmish fight already? you spent half the game going after my madrugar with swarms and I kept killing you with my railgun, you have never killed my tanks before. Oh that? that was about 2 months ago; I was being cheap that day since I was trying to get more flight hours in but ADS are rather expensive. Skinweave Logi with Dren Launcher with hives racks up quite a bit of WP for higher isk payouts. You specifically only got me once with the railgun; the other guy nailed me about 3 times.
I haven't been logged since January 2nd of this year lol. this was back in open beta.
Closed Beta Vet.
PSN: Helix-Void_Echo
Only the strongest can do Good and the weakest do Evil- Void Echo
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Dark Taboo
1553
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 02:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:One Eyed King wrote:So, on a skirmish map with lots of objectives that need defended, you should have several people per tank dedicated to taking out just one player?
Yeah, sounds legit. Ah, please remember to only do 1v1 when you do infantry vs infantry fights because 2v1 would be both unbalanced (because you need to use 2 against 1) and also wasting 1 or more mercs. They could be doing something useful you know, like killing someone else, or hacking an objective, etc... So, if you refuse to do 2v1 against vehicles to kill them faster and more easily, remember to also refuse to do 2v1 against infantry. Seems like the point went straight over your head. 1v2 infantry makes it easier for the pair to kill a the 1, not a NECESSITY like 1 vehicle against 2+ AV. And since when has 2+ AV against 1 vehicle been a necessity? I can name a lot of AV players that can kill any vehicle pilot all on their own. Maybe not succeeding in doing that every time, but then again infantry doesn't always succeed in killing infantry either.
Sorry I skimmed through the OP and only caught that multiple people coordinating should be required to kill vehicles and it seemed like you were supporting that point.
I shouldn't post early in the day anymore.
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Vermaak 88: Still an obscure reference
Still not whole.
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11483
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 02:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Alot of people complain that vehicles are "too hard to kill" cause they retreat at the slightest sign of AV. The problem here is that allmost nobody has actually the balls to hunt them down. Which means you play AV for the entire match just to blow them up. Another problem is nobody bothers to actually team up or use existing resources and knowledge avaible. So lets talk about how to play AV:
-the stationary rock with a forgegun:
this is by far the most common way that AV players are chosing. Sitting in a spot and waiting for a vehicle to come by. Problem is that this method is easy to predict and aswell easy to counter. Which is basically wasting resources.
-The suicidal moron:
be it a heavy that runs stright at a tank or a medium frame with a swarm launcher. Attacking vehicles while there is hostile infantry around them is just suicidal and again waste of ISK cause you will die.
-Stealth AV:
Scouts with swarm launchers trying to sneak past infantry and attacking hostile vehicles. This can work but most of the time the ADS or tank will be aible to escape 8 out of 10 times.
-Organised AV play in combination with vehicles:
This might sound blasphemic but combining the mobility of a LAV/dropship with the firepower of forgeguns is devestating. However you will need a talented driver/pilot for this. If you do this with at least 2 forgegunners you can counter all vehicles without issues. The key is to actually get BEHIND a tank and follow it with some safety distance, once it stops moving you jump out with your buddy and start shoting the tank. Be sure to quickly escape with your vehicle once the job is done or angry infantry will come after you.
Out of all options the last one is the strategy which is the most successfull. You could argue about coordinated breach forgeguns but in most cases they just suck due to their long charge time. It is not the issue that AV doesnt work its more of a problem that people dont actually try to kill vehicles. Teamwork is the key and it is a joy to hunt tanks with a LAV. No the reason people complain about vehicles retreating, is beause most people assume that AVing should only require one application and that suppressing a vehicle is a bad thing. If you are AV your job is not to destroy vehicles, but stop vehicles from slaughtering your team. Destroying them is only a perk not a necessity.
Give me enough ammo for more than two clips and sure.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Rowdy Railgunner
Capital Acquisitions LLC
General Tso's Alliance
447
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 02:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
When I was in TRUE TEA BAGGERS we would all have an AV nade fit that we could call out and 4-6 people rushing a tank all throwing AV nades makes that tank disappear right quick. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
12551
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 02:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:When I was in TRUE TEA BAGGERS we would all have an AV nade fit that we could call out and 4-6 people rushing a tank all throwing AV nades makes that tank disappear right quick.
Thats how we used to do it in Dead Six.
If you weren't a Sentinel with an Assault Forge...... you had atleast ADV AV grenades to take down HAV.
"We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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