DUST Search - Legion Development is being done WRONG

Tallen Ellecon wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

While it would be nice there is one massive factor you're missing... How are you going to convince the eve developers to build that link?

They're the same company and last time I checked it's their job and they'll do what they're told. This confirms what I've suspected for a longtime , that the link is small in DUST and likely will be in Legion.

People like the politics and wars of EVE online, they draw in a lot of attention, and everyone I know who is familiar with EVE has respect for it in that regard. What stops those people from playing are the complexities and time investments of the game itself. They'd like to be in a huge battle and change the course of New Eden history but they don't want to spend months skilling into the ships they need and then waiting a few more months for something to happen.

This is where Legion should come in. With a full link it give anyone an opportunity to be a part of these newsworthy events. With it's free to play model and relatively familiar mechanics anyone can be a part of it. I've posted countless times on the forums ideas for links between the two games which are relatively simple in terms of information transfer but add new dimensions to both games.

This isn't just about Legion needing EVE to be viable, it's about EVE needing Legion to be sustainable. Slowly EVE will become less and less relevant and fewer people will start and the same people who've been playing for a decade will control everything, but add another dimension with Legion and one game will never fully be able to control the other but they can surely affect each other.

I've proposed many times different ways to link both games and they are quite obvious. All planetary actions from PI to land acquisition are under the control of Legion players. Like in EVE depending on the region the players themselves will have more or less control. All Space actions are in the realm of EVE, from troop transport, warbarge piloting, customs offices, and orbital strikes. If actions can be done through contracts and a linked currency you've added a large dimension to EVE, and a very large dimension to Legion. If this kind of link could be established IDK how CCP could avoid positive attention and praise. No other game could compete, they may be able to outdo certain aspects but they would never build a living universe on that scale.

This comment by IWS is why it likely won't happen, because CCP has the vision, but doesn't have the will to take something all the way. Maybe they don't want a repeat of Incarna, but this isn't about saving just one game, it's about saving both.

From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men

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Ghural WarRavens Final Resolution. 269	Posted - 2014.07.24 04:51:00 - [31] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While it would be nice there is one massive factor you're missing... How are you going to convince the eve developers to build that link? What a stupid thing to ask the OP. This forum is full of suggestions on how to build on the Dust(legion)/link. Go read them. CCP have done presentations on deepening the link. Go watch them. An EVE/Legion link isn't just about some big feature like boarding titans (or stations, or player owned structures), it's also the smaller stuff like shared mail, chat, corps etc. Even the ability to deliver orbitals has generated lots of activity in both games. Even though it doesn't generate any ISK for the EVE player. It does generate fun. Not everything has to result in some number going up in an imaginary wallet. Watching your enemies being blown to bits is reward enough. Legion needs to have it from the beginning so it can be fully integrated into the game, not tacked on at some future date. We've been beta testing the EVE/dust link for the last two years. That shouldn't go to waste.
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3679	Posted - 2014.07.24 06:55:00 - [32] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While it would be nice there is one massive factor you're missing... How are you going to convince the eve developers to build that link? Fact of the matter the link (the back end server magic that lets Dusters and Eve pilots all exist on TQ) is already there its just a matter of CCP utilizing it. As for why? It's in the core of the soul of the game and what drove people to have interest in the first place. At the end of the day though it'll be up to the CPM 1 and player community to convince CCP their desire for a link. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Legio DXIV 1420	Posted - 2014.07.24 15:15:00 - [33] - Quote Honestly, I do not think that it is fair to compare the too games and quite frankly I think Destiny lacks depth. Spawn in, move to A, kill stuff at A, move to B, kills stuff at B, go home. They spent all this money and accumulated so much hype that a flop is guaranteed. My build
Dalmont Legrand RUST 415 RUST415 489	Posted - 2014.07.24 16:14:00 - [34] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: I sound cruel and spiteful, I apologize for that. According to what I've heard, Legion is not being developed with an Eve Link in mind save for being in the same universe... This is a horrible idea. I dislike bringing it up, but Destiny is already a massive game CCP. It has the ability to collect loot, engage in contracts at YOUR choosing, and you still get a nice fighter to look at. There's player interaction, seamless public events, and this is just from 5 hours playing the beta... I'm not saying Legion can't do this better, but it true needs to sell itself from the pack. There are a wealth of games that will be coming out soon, and Legion needs a serious "Buy me" factor. You have a community that saves they aren't going to Legion, there needs to be a reason to. You already have an established and esteemed IP, and that needs to have a game built AROUND that. There is no problem with people saying, "Legion is what players do when not playing EVE" because you can make Eve need Legion as well. You are repeating the same mistakes that you made with Dust, and that has gotten us with a very little connection and usage from Eve save for PC, which is very costly, and FW, which hard as there aren't too many popular channels, and FW on the Dust side has issues. Destiny is much like Legion, but Legion should exploit Destiny. You guys may be able to have Guardians fight each, but I'll be getting an Armada of Titans and Cruisers to have a Mini-war while us mercs rage Hell on Okomon V in an attempt to break into the player customized district. I do not recall ever getting a Headline for Dust. You need to make them for Legion. Please make the around as a spin-off on Eve, not as a standalone trying to say, "Oh yeah we also have this game." I'm not saying it won't be enough, but if we can get a solid foundation of connectivity first with some core game features to be established, then you have a winner. Please, I implore you to not make this mistake. Legion really could become the next BIG thing in gaming, but that requires making one game give a crap about another in real-time. It's something you kinda did with Dust, now flesh it out and make it a crucial of Legion, with other side things and the rest of the game if the player just wants to shoot things Legion is free to play, unlike Destiny. It doesn't have "Buy me" factor, it shouldn't have "pay-to-win-factor" and yes, connection to EVE, lazy arses in CCP you know... The best is yet to come No longer candidate
Ghural WarRavens Final Resolution. 271	Posted - 2014.07.24 23:38:00 - [35] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While it would be nice there is one massive factor you're missing... How are you going to convince the eve developers to build that link? Fact of the matter the link (the back end server magic that lets Dusters and Eve pilots all exist on TQ) is already there its just a matter of CCP utilizing it. As for why? It's in the core of the soul of the game and what drove people to have interest in the first place. At the end of the day though it'll be up to the CPM 1 and player community to convince CCP their desire for a link. I disagree with your last sentence. Only because players have already been expressing their interest in a deeper eve/dust link for a long time now already and CCPs response has been to remove it from legion with a suggestion that they may add something later. I think CCP is going to ignore the playerbase on this.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3964	Posted - 2014.07.25 18:31:00 - [36] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: The core mechanics in Legion should be developed with the EVE-Legion as its focus. They should be developing every single aspect of Legion with "how does this reinforce the EVE link?". I agree 100%. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Tallen Ellecon 2011	Posted - 2014.07.25 21:38:00 - [37] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While it would be nice there is one massive factor you're missing... How are you going to convince the eve developers to build that link? They're the same company and last time I checked it's their job and they'll do what they're told. This confirms what I've suspected for a longtime , that the link is small in DUST and likely will be in Legion. People like the politics and wars of EVE online, they draw in a lot of attention, and everyone I know who is familiar with EVE has respect for it in that regard. What stops those people from playing are the complexities and time investments of the game itself. They'd like to be in a huge battle and change the course of New Eden history but they don't want to spend months skilling into the ships they need and then waiting a few more months for something to happen. This is where Legion should come in. With a full link it give anyone an opportunity to be a part of these newsworthy events. With it's free to play model and relatively familiar mechanics anyone can be a part of it. I've posted countless times on the forums ideas for links between the two games which are relatively simple in terms of information transfer but add new dimensions to both games. This isn't just about Legion needing EVE to be viable, it's about EVE needing Legion to be sustainable. Slowly EVE will become less and less relevant and fewer people will start and the same people who've been playing for a decade will control everything, but add another dimension with Legion and one game will never fully be able to control the other but they can surely affect each other. I've proposed many times different ways to link both games and they are quite obvious. All planetary actions from PI to land acquisition are under the control of Legion players. Like in EVE depending on the region the players themselves will have more or less control. All Space actions are in the realm of EVE, from troop transport, warbarge piloting, customs offices, and orbital strikes. If actions can be done through contracts and a linked currency you've added a large dimension to EVE, and a very large dimension to Legion. If this kind of link could be established IDK how CCP could avoid positive attention and praise. No other game could compete, they may be able to outdo certain aspects but they would never build a living universe on that scale. This comment by IWS is why it likely won't happen, because CCP has the vision, but doesn't have the will to take something all the way. Maybe they don't want a repeat of Incarna, but this isn't about saving just one game, it's about saving both. Blehh..
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 401	Posted - 2014.07.26 16:28:00 - [38] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While it would be nice there is one massive factor you're missing... How are you going to convince the eve developers to build that link? They're the same company and last time I checked it's their job and they'll do what they're told. This confirms what I've suspected for a longtime , that the link is small in DUST and likely will be in Legion. People like the politics and wars of EVE online, they draw in a lot of attention, and everyone I know who is familiar with EVE has respect for it in that regard. What stops those people from playing are the complexities and time investments of the game itself. They'd like to be in a huge battle and change the course of New Eden history but they don't want to spend months skilling into the ships they need and then waiting a few more months for something to happen. This is where Legion should come in. With a full link it give anyone an opportunity to be a part of these newsworthy events. With it's free to play model and relatively familiar mechanics anyone can be a part of it. I've posted countless times on the forums ideas for links between the two games which are relatively simple in terms of information transfer but add new dimensions to both games. This isn't just about Legion needing EVE to be viable, it's about EVE needing Legion to be sustainable. Slowly EVE will become less and less relevant and fewer people will start and the same people who've been playing for a decade will control everything, but add another dimension with Legion and one game will never fully be able to control the other but they can surely affect each other. I've proposed many times different ways to link both games and they are quite obvious. All planetary actions from PI to land acquisition are under the control of Legion players. Like in EVE depending on the region the players themselves will have more or less control. All Space actions are in the realm of EVE, from troop transport, warbarge piloting, customs offices, and orbital strikes. If actions can be done through contracts and a linked currency you've added a large dimension to EVE, and a very large dimension to Legion. If this kind of link could be established IDK how CCP could avoid positive attention and praise. No other game could compete, they may be able to outdo certain aspects but they would never build a living universe on that scale. This comment by IWS is why it likely won't happen, because CCP has the vision, but doesn't have the will to take something all the way. Maybe they don't want a repeat of Incarna, but this isn't about saving just one game, it's about saving both. I agree 100%. Could you possibly post some of your ideas in this thread via copy-paste? It'd be nice if we can start brainstorming some EVE-Legion links. It isn't enough to post for something to be done, we have to give ideas as well :) @Ghural- Naw, IWS is alright to post his opinion, it was a good question. Eve CCP and Dust CCP are focused on different games. However, they are the same company, they better do what they're told @iWS- Players who already have massive amounts of ISK and SP in this game are bored. Why? It's either due PC, stomp pubs, get stomped in pubs, or FW. That's it, it's all ground battles. I don't know about the skill progression in Legion, and yes it is going to have PVE and all, but honestly EVE is already established. Why the hell are we trying to rebuild an entire game, when we could make Legion a deep facet of another. Tallen Ellecon stated it right out of my mouth. Eve takes forever to get into, and while changing history is cool, losing billions of Isk is not. Legion, being the streamlined FPS that CCP Z wants, will add accessibility, and with that, when people are waiting for their skills to train up in Eve, they can be fighting wars in Legion. I mean the contracts are already going to take place in New Eden so I can't fathom they will forego the link. My issue with it is that it will not be anything that we care about. It is very hard for FW to get Eve pilots, because Molden Heath is so dangerous..There goes one link. PC- Need a fleet, need to be in a strong alliance, even then no guarantee. Smaller corps are excluded. Done, there goes their other link for the majority of players. The only time Dust players may ever see an Eve pilot is in Local Chat. That is a no no From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Tallen Ellecon 2021	Posted - 2014.07.27 00:14:00 - [39] - Quote Here and here , they're different but they follow a similar idea. Blehh..
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3979	Posted - 2014.07.28 15:50:00 - [40] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: While it would be nice there is one massive factor you're missing... How are you going to convince the eve developers to build that link? The EVE/Legion link should be done in a way that makes BOTH games better. The EVE/DUST link did not provide any real benefit to EVE players and therefore did not rouse any interest from EVE players or EVE only developers. That was its downfall. EVE players should be able to produce DUST weapons and sell them to DUST mercenaries. An EVE player in the appropriate faction or Corp should be able to tap into the Warbarge Tac-Net and get an overview of the battle below in order to target their own Orbital Strikes. Controlling districts should provide real benefits for EVE pilots. Drone salvage should be a source for specialized materials used in manufacturing EVE implants. (Another source could be made available through exploration or something so that the games would not be completely dependent.) EVE pilots should be able to take contracts to transport stuff (including clones) for Legion players. There are many more things the EVE/Legion link could provide that would benefit EVE players and get them interested in Legion. As for the Devs, EVE is getting a bit stale. It has been quite a while since they added Wormholes. The EVE/Legion link could provide a new aspect to EVE to keep players interested. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2943	Posted - 2014.07.28 16:29:00 - [41] - Quote In terms of Legion development, convincing CCP of this is a top priority of mine. The louder you guys are about it, the more likely they will take it seriously. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8932	Posted - 2014.07.28 16:38:00 - [42] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: In terms of Legion development, convincing CCP of this is a top priority of mine. The louder you guys are about it, the more likely they will take it seriously. Then the best way to go about doing that is by going to your CPM1 representatives and have them relay your opinions. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2943	Posted - 2014.07.28 16:43:00 - [43] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: In terms of Legion development, convincing CCP of this is a top priority of mine. The louder you guys are about it, the more likely they will take it seriously. Then the best way to go about doing that is by going to your CPM1 representatives and have them relay your opinions. Depends. Bringing me individual cases will definitely help, but a forum thread with a big chunk of the community supporting it that I can point to will help even more. Please keep this thread going, I want to point to it. ;) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 911	Posted - 2014.07.28 19:29:00 - [44] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: In terms of Legion development, convincing CCP of this is a top priority of mine. The louder you guys are about it, the more likely they will take it seriously. Then the best way to go about doing that is by going to your CPM1 representatives and have them relay your opinions. Depends. Bringing me individual cases will definitely help, but a forum thread with a big chunk of the community supporting it that I can point to will help even more. Please keep this thread going, I want to point to it. ;) Well, it might help to have a thread with a more positive, less accusatory title... I would support that. Edit* However, in terms of Legion/ EVE link, if Legion does not stand on its own, no amount of EVE Online integration will save it.
Ghural Pradox One Proficiency V. 288	Posted - 2014.07.29 08:35:00 - [45] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: In terms of Legion development, convincing CCP of this is a top priority of mine. The louder you guys are about it, the more likely they will take it seriously. Then the best way to go about doing that is by going to your CPM1 representatives and have them relay your opinions. Depends. Bringing me individual cases will definitely help, but a forum thread with a big chunk of the community supporting it that I can point to will help even more. Please keep this thread going, I want to point to it. ;) Why point to just this thread when there have already been dozens on the subject? I think CCP is aware of player interest in a link, but is not going to do anything about it. CCP has a thing about listening to reason. In any case. Why talk to the CPM? They are going to have very limited (if any) input into legion. And I can't really be bothered trying to convince someone on the CPM to go try to convince CCP on my behalf, especially since CCP has ignored CPM advice that would have prevented the fanfest debacle. I have zero faith in the CPM. Not just because of some of the individuals on it. But and their limited scope (minor changes to Dust514) and their precisely zero leverage to make CCP listen.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2954	Posted - 2014.07.29 14:07:00 - [46] - Quote Give us a chance, Ghural, we'll get things done. The CPM is an evolving process. We want to do better than CPM0, and I hope CPM2 does better than us. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Ghural Pradox One Proficiency V. 290	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:59:00 - [47] - Quote Well I had to bottom line what I think would be a useful link between the two games. Regardless of the mechanics, there needs to be three things. 1) There needs to be a resource that is only in EVE that Legion players want 2) There needs to be a resource that is only in Legion that EVE players want 3) Players can set up contracts (jobs) to ask players from the other game to give them the resource in return for ISK. The resource doesn't have to be building materials, though it could be. It could be Legion players being able to find the location for lucrative exploration sites (un-scannable giant super solar asteroid fields for example) that they can then sell to EVE players for ISK It could be EVE players scanning planets and finding lucrative loot sites for mercs. It could be Legion players putting up a request for an orbital bombardment in return for ISK (payable after the orbital). It could be EVE players asking Legion players to enter a derelict station to find implant components. Whatever the particulars of the interaction. It needs to be more profound than being a minor modifier in faction warfare. And there needs to be an updated contracts(jobs) system to form the main interaction between the two games.


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