DUST Search - How Assaults Were Intended To Be. Their Not Slayers (Spoiler Alert...

Soulja Ghostface wrote:

MINA Longstrike wrote:

You're obscuring the argument by making an incorrect and flawed example with the assault dropship. The 'Assault' part of the assault dropship is what makes it able to combat other things - this is what defines it as the 'slayer' dropship. The 'dropship' part is what makes it a 'customizable' role. In fact the 'assault' dropship is less customizable than its non assault counterparts, it has less fitting and it's only real tradeoffs are nose mounted guns, improved weapon performance, quicker turnarounds and increased speed/maneuverability.

Thus if we take the regular frames and apply the same logic, assaults 'should be' 1) faster, 2) have increased weapon performance, 3) have faster turnarounds, 4) less customizable, 5) less oriented towards equipment, 6) far more oriented towards slaying.

Your 'argument' is wrong, has been explained why and where its wrong and is thus dismissed.

How Am I making a flawed example of the assault dropship which is obscuring the argument? I didn't talk about vehicles in this thread. And they hold absolutely no wheight in this argument. Yes they both have the name assault in them. But their name vaguely defines their roles. The assault dropsuits real role is the jack of all trades master of none. The assault dropship is currently only dropship meant for arial assaultsbut that is another topic for another day.

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Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS 2372	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:27:00 - [1] - Quote The assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, Good mobility, and sufficient hard points for mission specific customizations Through customization assaults suits are supposed to do anything and when i say anything i mean anything. And they are supposed to do it better than anything else that can do it with the exception of the intended suit for intended role The Assault Role Is Meant To Play Second Fiddle To Everything Slaying>Commando>Assault>etc Scouting- Scout>Assault> Defending- Sentinel>Assault>etc Logi'ing- Logistics>Assault>etc.>Assau But... Flexablity- Assault>Everything *CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/* God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2848	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:36:00 - [2] - Quote Yet they're last in every list. Though I'm positive they're the slayer class, not commandos. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS 2372	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:43:00 - [3] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Yet they're last in every list. Though I'm positive they're the slayer class, not commandos. They are second on every list except flexability anything> assault> etc.>... ^^ How assault were intended And Commandos Were Intended To Be Better Killers With Their 2 Light Weapon Slots *CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/* God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2983	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:20:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks They're slayers. My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS 2372	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:26:00 - [5] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Killing folks. They're slayers. Yes they are. You can put damage mods on and "Kill Stuff" All suits with a weapon can "Kill Stuff". If you want to be most specialised in "Killing Stuff", Go Heavy *CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/* God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2983	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:27:00 - [6] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Killing folks. They're slayers. Yes they are. You can put damage mods on and "Kill Stuff" All suits with a weapon can "Kill Stuff". If you want to be most specialised in "Killing Stuff" Go Heavy Heavies are defensive killers. Assaults are offensive killers. Commandos are in between. My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS 2372	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:30:00 - [7] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Soulja Ghostface wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Killing folks. They're slayers. Yes they are. You can put damage mods on and "Kill Stuff" All suits with a weapon can "Kill Stuff". If you want to be most specialised in "Killing Stuff" Go Heavy Heavies are defensive killers. Assaults are offensive killers. Commandos are in between. Going Heavy means either commando or heavy. and commandos kill better than assaults Assaults Are not and will never be the master killer suit *CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/* God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12044	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:33:00 - [8] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: And Commandos Were Intended To Be Better Killers With Their 2 Light Weapon Slots Actually we've had CCP confirm the working title of "Ultimate Suppression Fighters" for Commando's. Personally as I see my Commando its role has nothing to do with killing despite that it can do that quite well. It's about levelling superior and adaptive fire power at range and primarily dictating the range of engagements, not actually attacking or engaging enemies. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
MINA Longstrike 1047	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:36:00 - [9] - Quote You're obscuring the argument by making an incorrect and flawed example with the assault dropship. The 'Assault' part of the assault dropship is what makes it able to combat other things - this is what defines it as the 'slayer' dropship. The 'dropship' part is what makes it a 'customizable' role. In fact the 'assault' dropship is less customizable than its non assault counterparts, it has less fitting and it's only real tradeoffs are nose mounted guns, improved weapon performance, quicker turnarounds and increased speed/maneuverability. Thus if we take the regular frames and apply the same logic, assaults 'should be' 1) faster, 2) have increased weapon performance, 3) have faster turnarounds, 4) less customizable, 5) less oriented towards equipment, 6) far more oriented towards slaying. Your 'argument' is wrong, has been explained why and where its wrong and is thus dismissed. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike 1047	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:43:00 - [10] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Soulja Ghostface wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Killing folks. They're slayers. Yes they are. You can put damage mods on and "Kill Stuff" All suits with a weapon can "Kill Stuff". If you want to be most specialised in "Killing Stuff" Go Heavy Heavies are defensive killers. Assaults are offensive killers. Commandos are in between. Going Heavy means either commando or heavy. and commandos kill better than assaults Assaults Are not and will never be the master killer suit Commando's are 'specialists', they're slower but they carry the ability to deal with stuff like armored threats - a lot of commando's I know run plasma cannons, swarm launchers or occasionally mass drivers which they pull out for certain situations (like PLC's vs tanks / installations or heavies). They're slower but they come prepared. Assaults that I know are most frequently Amarr assaults (currently really the only one to do it 'right') and while they're not as prepped for as many situations as commando's, the improved weapon performance on the amarr assault makes them some of the killiest sons of bitches I've ever met. The only reason that assaults 'are not and will never be the master killer suit' (in your words), is because of scouts being buffed in every area all at once, and the HMG Heavy being a constant over-performer with its 960+ dps against armor. An EHP/regeneration buff to assaults with some slight tweaking to (currently overpowered) scouts and you'll see a lot more people running assault. In fact the only assault that has a 'bad' bonus right now is the cal assault and that's fixable by also adding kick reduction to rail weaponry on it. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS 2372	Posted - 2014.07.20 23:07:00 - [11] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: You're obscuring the argument by making an incorrect and flawed example with the assault dropship. The 'Assault' part of the assault dropship is what makes it able to combat other things - this is what defines it as the 'slayer' dropship. The 'dropship' part is what makes it a 'customizable' role. In fact the 'assault' dropship is less customizable than its non assault counterparts, it has less fitting and it's only real tradeoffs are nose mounted guns, improved weapon performance, quicker turnarounds and increased speed/maneuverability. Thus if we take the regular frames and apply the same logic, assaults 'should be' 1) faster, 2) have increased weapon performance, 3) have faster turnarounds, 4) less customizable, 5) less oriented towards equipment, 6) far more oriented towards slaying. Your 'argument' is wrong, has been explained why and where its wrong and is thus dismissed. How Am I making a flawed example of the assault dropship which is obscuring the argument? I didn't talk about vehicles in this thread. And they hold absolutely no wheight in this argument. Yes they both have the name assault in them. But their name vaguely defines their roles. The assault dropsuits real role is the jack of all trades master of none. The assault dropship is currently only dropship meant for arial assaultsbut that is another topic for another day. *CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/* God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2983	Posted - 2014.07.20 23:10:00 - [12] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: You're obscuring the argument by making an incorrect and flawed example with the assault dropship. The 'Assault' part of the assault dropship is what makes it able to combat other things - this is what defines it as the 'slayer' dropship. The 'dropship' part is what makes it a 'customizable' role. In fact the 'assault' dropship is less customizable than its non assault counterparts, it has less fitting and it's only real tradeoffs are nose mounted guns, improved weapon performance, quicker turnarounds and increased speed/maneuverability. Thus if we take the regular frames and apply the same logic, assaults 'should be' 1) faster, 2) have increased weapon performance, 3) have faster turnarounds, 4) less customizable, 5) less oriented towards equipment, 6) far more oriented towards slaying. Your 'argument' is wrong, has been explained why and where its wrong and is thus dismissed. How Am I making a flawed example of the assault dropship which is obscuring the argument? I didn't talk about vehicles in this thread. And they are absolutely no wheight in this argument. Yes they both have the name assault in them. But their name vaguely defines their roles. The assault dropsuits real role is the jack of all trades master of none while the assault dropship is the only dropship out right now actually meant for assaulting. CCP has stated that the role of the Assault Dropsuit is to kill. Therefor, they are slayers. You may want them to be something else, but too bad. My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS 2372	Posted - 2014.07.20 23:14:00 - [13] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: You may want them to be something else, but too bad. Quote: The assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, Good mobility, and sufficient hard points for mission specific customizations. ^^This is what I am trying to get to you guys. Straight from the suits description. Not what I want, But what it is. *CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/* God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
MINA Longstrike 1047	Posted - 2014.07.20 23:19:00 - [14] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: You're obscuring the argument by making an incorrect and flawed example with the assault dropship. The 'Assault' part of the assault dropship is what makes it able to combat other things - this is what defines it as the 'slayer' dropship. The 'dropship' part is what makes it a 'customizable' role. In fact the 'assault' dropship is less customizable than its non assault counterparts, it has less fitting and it's only real tradeoffs are nose mounted guns, improved weapon performance, quicker turnarounds and increased speed/maneuverability. Thus if we take the regular frames and apply the same logic, assaults 'should be' 1) faster, 2) have increased weapon performance, 3) have faster turnarounds, 4) less customizable, 5) less oriented towards equipment, 6) far more oriented towards slaying. Your 'argument' is wrong, has been explained why and where its wrong and is thus dismissed. How Am I making a flawed example of the assault dropship which is obscuring the argument? I didn't talk about vehicles in this thread. And they hold absolutely no wheight in this argument. Yes they both have the name assault in them. But their name vaguely defines their roles. The assault dropsuits real role is the jack of all trades master of none. The assault dropship is currently only dropship meant for arial assaultsbut that is another topic for another day. My mistake, I saw 'dropship' not dropsuit. The point still stands however. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 570	Posted - 2014.07.20 23:29:00 - [15] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: You may want them to be something else, but too bad. Quote: The assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, Good mobility, and sufficient hard points for mission specific customizations. ^^This is what I am trying to get to you guys. Straight from the suits description. Not what I want, But what it is. The same can be said, but better for Logistics (More slots to do a specific job) Or scouts (Who can do a specific job with better stats than an assault suit, and do it while practically being invisible and with more speed) So the assault suit is not only the worst at every job But worst at being the most versatile for multiple jobs? Seems balanced GG Closed Beta Vet/ Chromosome and Corp battle Vet/ Uprising 1.0-Now PC vet Ex D.F. Director Current Inner.Hell Director
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15981	Posted - 2014.07.20 23:43:00 - [16] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: The assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, Good mobility, and sufficient hard points for mission specific customizations Through customization assaults suits are supposed to do anything and when i say anything i mean anything. And they are supposed to do it better than anything else that can do it with the exception of the intended suit for intended role The Assault Role Is Meant To Play Second Fiddle To Everything Slaying>Commando>Assault>etc Scouting- Scout>Assault> Defending- Sentinel>Assault>etc Logi'ing- Logistics>Assault>etc.>Assau But... Flexablity- Assault>Everything They are already jack of all trades and master at none. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS 2372	Posted - 2014.07.20 23:47:00 - [17] - Quote ^^ Which is why I made this thread. For people who think the "assault" suit is only meant for "assault". So when disccussing fixing/nerfing/buffing the assault they are informed of it's purpose *CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/* God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS 2372	Posted - 2014.07.20 23:51:00 - [18] - Quote CHANCEtheChAn wrote: Soulja Ghostface wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: You may want them to be something else, but too bad. Quote: The assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, Good mobility, and sufficient hard points for mission specific customizations. ^^This is what I am trying to get to you guys. Straight from the suits description. Not what I want, But what it is. The same can be said, but better for Logistics (More slots to do a specific job) Or scouts (Who can do a specific job with better stats than an assault suit, and do it while practically being invisible and with more speed) So the assault suit is not only the worst at every job But worst at being the most versatile for multiple jobs? Seems balanced GG Very interesting. Let the devs know about this and/or give the cpm your voice on this *CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/* God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 544	Posted - 2014.07.21 00:34:00 - [19] - Quote In what way is an assault more flexible than a logi, or a scout? In what way could it be? It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1534	Posted - 2014.07.21 02:09:00 - [20] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: In fact the only assault that has a 'bad' bonus right now is the cal assault and that's fixable by also adding kick reduction to rail weaponry on it. I was nodding my head along with you right up until this last line. I am sorry, the Gallente bonus is worse than the Caldari bonus. I mean come on, really, a hip fire dispersion bonus to hybrid blaster weapons?! Really?! The only weapons that actually benefit from this are the ion pisol (which still manages to be horrible even if you have level 5 in assault) and the shotgun (a tighter pattern = longer range kills). The majority of Gal Assaults though use the AR as their primary which, once you've skilled up sharpshooter, is already super accurate from the hip. I actually kind of wonder if the bonus affects the AR at all. All the assaults' bonuses, with the exception of the Amarr, need a very close looking at. Fun > Realism
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1476	Posted - 2014.07.21 02:13:00 - [21] - Quote Then they need to move to the role of slayer. Emphasize attack at the cost of defense. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
MINA Longstrike 1047	Posted - 2014.07.21 02:48:00 - [22] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: In fact the only assault that has a 'bad' bonus right now is the cal assault and that's fixable by also adding kick reduction to rail weaponry on it. I was nodding my head along with you right up until this last line. I am sorry, the Gallente bonus is worse than the Caldari bonus. I mean come on, really, a hip fire dispersion bonus to hybrid blaster weapons?! Really?! The only weapons that actually benefit from this are the ion pisol (which still manages to be horrible even if you have level 5 in assault) and the shotgun (a tighter pattern = longer range kills). The majority of Gal Assaults though use the AR as their primary which, once you've skilled up sharpshooter, is already super accurate from the hip. I actually kind of wonder if the bonus affects the AR at all. All the assaults' bonuses, with the exception of the Amarr, need a very close looking at. The gal bonus makes the variants perform a lot better when hipfired. Sharpshooter isn't enough for a tar. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1514	Posted - 2014.07.21 11:40:00 - [23] - Quote since close beta assaults were meant to be the jack of all trades main battle suit but CCP failed to deliver. and "slaying" is no role or anything. any one with a weapon is a slayer, aka every suit in game.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 382	Posted - 2014.07.21 13:26:00 - [24] - Quote Why is everyone going by the description? ** the description. They wrote that before they even knew what the ** was going to happen to Dust. Assault in every game is supposed to me the most adaptable KILLER. It doesn't do best at point defense, it doesn't do best at scouting, it does best at being able to ADAPT TO KILLING in any situation. You know the scary thing about em? They don't need power... lights, heat, nothing. That's their advantage.
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS 2374	Posted - 2014.07.21 17:42:00 - [25] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Then they need to move to the role of slayer. Emphasize attack at the cost of defense. Damage Mods Are For That *CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/* God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 752	Posted - 2014.07.21 20:55:00 - [26] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Soulja Ghostface wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Killing folks. They're slayers. Yes they are. You can put damage mods on and "Kill Stuff" All suits with a weapon can "Kill Stuff". If you want to be most specialised in "Killing Stuff" Go Heavy Heavies are defensive killers. Assaults are offensive killers. Commandos are in between. Going Heavy means either commando or heavy. and commandos kill better than assaults Assaults Are not and will never be the master killer suit Commandos are certainly not better at killing stuff. They lack mobility. Heavies are defensive killers. Assaults are offensive killers. Commandos are in between boom What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 752	Posted - 2014.07.21 20:59:00 - [27] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: since close beta assaults were meant to be the jack of all trades main battle suit but CCP failed to deliver. and "slaying" is no role or anything. any one with a weapon is a slayer, aka every suit in game. And thats just not true. Slaying is a role. The slayer role revolves around removing enemy clones more efficiently than everyone else and being the most feared enemy. You know the guys who consistently go +4 kdr, the guy red berries see and run from. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Skylight Atoma The Phoenix Federation Dark Taboo 13	Posted - 2014.07.22 06:50:00 - [28] - Quote I smell troll bait all over this thread, but w/e That's fine if you want to think assaults are jacks of all trades, or even the go to slayer suit, but in the current meta assaults are vastly outclassed by heavy/light frames and offer even less utility with the big equipment nerfs. Outclassed to the point where they are not worth using unless you're pub farming for ISK in militia gear. You can make the case that the amarr assault is the most potent one for slaying and is sort of on par with commandos. But take any assault suit into a PC and tell me how useful you feel on a scale of 1-10. If it's anything above 3 you're fighting a bad corp, against anyone halfway competitive it's going to be 0.
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 133	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:31:00 - [29] - Quote Its ok OP wasn't meant to be a speller either.
Meee One Algintal Core Gallente Federation 933	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:29:00 - [30] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: The assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, Good mobility, and sufficient hard points for mission specific customizations Through customization assaults suits are supposed to do anything and when i say anything i mean anything. And they are supposed to do it better than anything else that can do it with the exception of the intended suit for intended role The Assault Role Is Meant To Play Second Fiddle To Everything Slaying>Commando>Assault>etc Scouting- Scout>Assault> Defending- Sentinel>Assault>etc Logi'ing- Logistics>Assault>etc.>Assau But... Flexablity- Assault>Everything Lolno You obviously ignored the "mission specific" part. Which means if they need eHP they can have it,same for eWAR or damage or AV. No where in the description does it say they can do all at once.

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