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Faction Warfare Loyalty Points, Standings, and Store changes?

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Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8818	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:40:00 - [1] - Quote Really anxious to hear about this, as it is listed as part of the Charlie hotfix. Well, actually only loyalty points are listed, but I'll include standings and the store in this for a little more discussion. Loyalty Points First, let's look at current LP payouts Standing: Win / Lose Level 0: 326 / 65 Level 1: 350 / 70 Level 2: 375 / 75 Level 3: 403 / 81 Level 4: 432 / 86 Level 5: 464 / 93 Level 6: 497 / 99 Level 7: 534 / 107 Level 8: 572 / 114 Level 9: 614 / 123 Level 10: 659 / 132 Not even mentioning the overall low values of these, but you have two other big issues in my opinion 1) Increases are largely linear. There's a bit of a curve, but it should be steeper 2) Overall max potential increase in payout is only roughly double. There should be a much wider discrepancy between no loyalty and max loyalty. Standings Now let's also take a look at how many wins are required to advanced levels in standing. Standing: Wins from last rank / Total wins from beginning Level 0: 0 / 0 Level 1: 3 / 3 Level 2: 6 / 9 Level 3: 9 / 18 Level 4: 15 / 33 Level 5: 28 / 61 Level 6: 45 / 106 Level 7: 70 / 176 Level 8: 100 / 276 Level 9: 145 / 421 Level 10: 200 / 621 Some people may say this is way too steep. I however originally liked the progression back when I was under the impression that Dust 514 had many years of life left in front of it. Now, however, I am also in agreement that this is too steep. I have always been a real active member in the FW side of things, and have definitely played a ton of FW especially since the loyalty addition in Uprising 1.7 on December 10th. Using myself then as a gauge, I have accumulated just under 300 wins (recently achieved level 8 standing and now sitting at 12% towards next) in 7 months. At this rate, it would take over a year to achieve max standing. So I guess it comes down to, 1) Will FW standings transfer to Legion? If so, having a long progression system is fine 2) If not, then how how long should it take (in terms of time) on average to reach max standing? Tanking into consideration not everyone should be max standing, it should be a big achievement, but it should also be reasonably obtainable. 3) How will other FW changes affect the frequency of FW matches? 621 wins wouldn't be that much if you could quickly get into matches instead of waiting 10+ minutes in-between. Perhaps any changes to standing should then wait until Hotfix Delta to see how participation changes in Charlie. Loyalty Store Lastly let's take a look at the loyalty store. Currently all items have both an LP value and an ISK value, however you only get paid from FW contracts in LP. CCP FoxFour insisted it work this way because that is how it works in EVE. However, in EVE you can make ISK off of the salvage from the ships you destroy while doing FW. In Dust, however, you cannot. Additionally, in most cases you cannot even use the salvage as part of your inventory since the stuff you destroy is likely stuff you don't use. For example, most Gallente FW players will run Gallente suits with armor mods, but most the stuff they destroy and then salvage will be Caldari suits with shield mods. So what must be done? 1) Remove the ISK fee from loyalty items, perhaps raise LP prices to compensate 2) Add ISK payments to FW contracts in addition to LP payments 3) Add a "Sell to NPC Market" option so we can make ISK off our salvage 4) Change the salvage feature such that you salvage stuff from your own team's losses instead of the other team's Personally I would prefer option (1), but if (3) were at all possible then clearly that would be the best route. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4148	Posted - 2014.07.17 23:31:00 - [2] - Quote I think that if you play casually you should be able to reach level 10 standings in 6-9 months If you're hardcore playing every day it should only be like 3-4 months While yes I agree that it shouldn't be something easy like a long-term goal, it shouldn't take a whole year to do. It should also increase dramatically at later levels, with one large step at the end. That said, the initial payouts should be really small in order to realize how much better rewards you get just my gainign a few ranks of standings. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11993	Posted - 2014.07.17 23:46:00 - [3] - Quote Wow I swear my wins haven't be applying to my over all rank. Since the standings changes I must have been in almost 500+ battles with well over half of them being wins........ and I'm stuck at 6...... "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10625	Posted - 2014.07.18 02:47:00 - [4] - Quote 5.) Add Missing Items to Loyalty Stores The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10625	Posted - 2014.07.18 02:48:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Wow I swear my wins haven't be applying to my over all rank. Since the standings changes I must have been in almost 500+ battles with well over half of them being wins........ and I'm stuck at 6...... It's a glitch. If you look at your Character Sheet, you'll see that your standings have increased. The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3811	Posted - 2014.07.18 04:10:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Wow I swear my wins haven't be applying to my over all rank. Since the standings changes I must have been in almost 500+ battles with well over half of them being wins........ and I'm stuck at 6...... It's a glitch. If you look at your Character Sheet, you'll see that your standings have increased. You also need to stop dropping RDVs and tanks on people. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8838	Posted - 2014.07.19 02:05:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: 5.) Add Missing Items to Loyalty Stores The points I was making were in regard to making the loyalty store more practical in terms of making transactions, so your additional point doesn't really do anything. However, it is definitely something that is needed (and really silly it was ignored during Uprising 1.8) Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3812	Posted - 2014.07.19 03:02:00 - [8] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I think that if you play casually you should be able to reach level 10 standings in 6-9 months If you're hardcore playing every day it should only be like 3-4 months While yes I agree that it shouldn't be something easy like a long-term goal, it shouldn't take a whole year to do. It should also increase dramatically at later levels, with one large step at the end. That said, the initial payouts should be really small in order to realize how much better rewards you get just my gainign a few ranks of standings. That sounds too easy. I'd say 6 months for level 10 for the hardcore, 9-12 months for the more casual. (This is naturally assuming carryover into the next game. Otherwise your numbers are absolutely correct.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 15483	Posted - 2014.07.28 15:12:00 - [9] - Quote Just going to bump this because it's a good thread and FW changes are a little under the radar it seems. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 789	Posted - 2014.07.28 21:22:00 - [10] - Quote I completely agree. LP rewards should be increased and isk should just be removed from the whole thing. (unless there was a way to sell salvage like you said). I've always wanted to get into FW with the idea that I could field all LP suits (kinda cool from a role playing perspective) but the low payout and isk for LP items always stop me. That and repeatedly getting stomped by Q synced douches. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4962	Posted - 2014.07.28 22:18:00 - [11] - Quote Thanks for a detailed overview. We want to make start by multiplying the LP rewards as a simple kickstarter for people interested in FW and create a sustainable way of earning enough LP to fund their LP fittings. Second, we want to decrease the grind a little and make top standings easier to achieve. Removing ISK prices, or adding ISK rewards, etc is more difficult and time consuming as it has to be done on an item by item basis. Adding more LP items is possible as well as time consuming, I would actually like if the community would give us feedback via a ranked list, by importance. I personally haven't looked into it, but I know a lot of things are missing, but are there dropsuits, key weapons etc for each race that are missing. Sell to NPC is not happening in the near to mid term but switching the salvage to your own team is actually possible and pretty smart. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12292	Posted - 2014.07.28 22:39:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for a detailed overview. We want to make start by multiplying the LP rewards as a simple kickstarter for people interested in FW and create a sustainable way of earning enough LP to fund their LP fittings. Second, we want to decrease the grind a little and make top standings easier to achieve. Removing ISK prices, or adding ISK rewards, etc is more difficult and time consuming as it has to be done on an item by item basis. Adding more LP items is possible as well as time consuming, I would actually like if the community would give us feedback via a ranked list, by importance. I personally haven't looked into it, but I know a lot of things are missing, but are there dropsuits, key weapons etc for each race that are missing. Sell to NPC is not happening in the near to mid term but switching the salvage to your own team is actually possible and pretty smart. Thats certainly wonderful. I bankrupted myself in FW since ISK went out of it dropping over the course of 6 months from 250 Million ISK sustainable to about 32 million sustainable.... I must admit the competition has been lacking in both side of the Min Amarr warzone atm........ Amarr has all 3 of its weapons.....it just needs the Scout..... other than that we have no other content so to speak.....unless an Imperial Madrugar/ Reskinned Maddy with the Imperial Seal on it appears..... That bloody Gallentean Eagle irks me every time I see it..... Will players existing LP stats be modified to reflect the changes..... I certainly do not have an equivalent number of LP for my efforts currently..... "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3830	Posted - 2014.07.29 00:00:00 - [13] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thats certainly wonderful. I bankrupted myself in FW since ISK went out of it dropping over the course of 6 months from 250 Million ISK sustainable to about 32 million sustainable.... I must admit the competition has been lacking in both side of the Min Amarr warzone atm........ Amarr has all 3 of its weapons.....it just needs the Scout..... other than that we have no other content so to speak.....unless an Imperial Madrugar/ Reskinned Maddy with the Imperial Seal on it appears..... That bloody Gallentean Eagle irks me every time I see it..... Will players existing LP stats be modified to reflect the changes..... I certainly do not have an equivalent number of LP for my efforts currently..... My thoughts exactly. Please try to increase the standings of players to reflect what they "should" be with the new changes, at the very least for those who have already shown dedication to a certain faction and already have achieved a certain level. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
NoxMort3m D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 501	Posted - 2014.07.29 00:20:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for a detailed overview. We want to make start by multiplying the LP rewards as a simple kickstarter for people interested in FW and create a sustainable way of earning enough LP to fund their LP fittings. Second, we want to decrease the grind a little and make top standings easier to achieve. Removing ISK prices, or adding ISK rewards, etc is more difficult and time consuming as it has to be done on an item by item basis. Adding more LP items is possible as well as time consuming, I would actually like if the community would give us feedback via a ranked list, by importance. I personally haven't looked into it, but I know a lot of things are missing, but are there dropsuits, key weapons etc for each race that are missing. Sell to NPC is not happening in the near to mid term but switching the salvage to your own team is actually possible and pretty smart. Lp item priorities 1 Dropsuits 2 Vehicles 3 Weapons 4 Equipment 5 Mods( all) And honestly i would go further and say the proto tier was more important because its what can be loyalty ed into from advanced, followed by specialist varieties, which is the second reason people run FW Director:Diplomat Search DL514 to apply
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8876	Posted - 2014.07.29 00:40:00 - [15] - Quote Absolutely what is most important is getting the dropsuits added in, and the ones that are missing are all the ones added in Uprising 1.8. So Amarr Scout, Caldari Scout, Caldari Sentinel, Caldari Commando, Gallente Sentinel, Gallente Commando, Minmatar Sentinel, and Minmatar Commando. And I agree, if it needs to be broken down anymore I'd say at least get the prototype versions in. I could keep making a list, but honestly the dropsuits are such a vastly higher priority than anything else so I won't bother. Get those in first. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2658	Posted - 2014.07.29 01:26:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for a detailed overview. We want to make start by multiplying the LP rewards as a simple kickstarter for people interested in FW and create a sustainable way of earning enough LP to fund their LP fittings. Second, we want to decrease the grind a little and make top standings easier to achieve. Removing ISK prices, or adding ISK rewards, etc is more difficult and time consuming as it has to be done on an item by item basis. Adding more LP items is possible as well as time consuming, I would actually like if the community would give us feedback via a ranked list, by importance. I personally haven't looked into it, but I know a lot of things are missing, but are there dropsuits, key weapons etc for each race that are missing. Sell to NPC is not happening in the near to mid term but switching the salvage to your own team is actually possible and pretty smart. What about increasing salvage because I hardly get more than like 6 items in salvage even when we kill 150 clones. Tanker/Logi
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12301	Posted - 2014.07.29 01:40:00 - [17] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for a detailed overview. We want to make start by multiplying the LP rewards as a simple kickstarter for people interested in FW and create a sustainable way of earning enough LP to fund their LP fittings. Second, we want to decrease the grind a little and make top standings easier to achieve. Removing ISK prices, or adding ISK rewards, etc is more difficult and time consuming as it has to be done on an item by item basis. Adding more LP items is possible as well as time consuming, I would actually like if the community would give us feedback via a ranked list, by importance. I personally haven't looked into it, but I know a lot of things are missing, but are there dropsuits, key weapons etc for each race that are missing. Sell to NPC is not happening in the near to mid term but switching the salvage to your own team is actually possible and pretty smart. What about increasing salvage because I hardly get more than like 6 items in salvage even when we kill 150 clones. Salvage is not a draw though since more than half of it you often cant use of can use significantly better. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
WREX PHACES ROGUE RELICS Dark Taboo 4	Posted - 2014.07.29 02:48:00 - [18] - Quote Just an idea, but what if FW wasn't a game type, instead a game mode. For instance you pick your game type(ambush,dom,skirm) then pick your game mode( public/faction) thus match making doesn't change, just an individuals payouts. Either isk or lp. As far as orbitals go, all should come from eve. Its ccp job to make sure they go/work together.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12308	Posted - 2014.07.29 03:05:00 - [19] - Quote WREX PHACES wrote: Just an idea, but what if FW wasn't a game type, instead a game mode. For instance you pick your game type(ambush,dom,skirm) then pick your game mode( public/faction) thus match making doesn't change, just an individuals payouts. Either isk or lp. As far as orbitals go, all should come from eve. Its ccp job to make sure they go/work together. I don't really see the point of that to be honest. If we need any choices given to us its that we need to be able to select which systems we fight in and districts we fight on. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
MINA Longstrike 1068	Posted - 2014.07.29 03:55:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for a detailed overview. We want to make start by multiplying the LP rewards as a simple kickstarter for people interested in FW and create a sustainable way of earning enough LP to fund their LP fittings. Second, we want to decrease the grind a little and make top standings easier to achieve. Removing ISK prices, or adding ISK rewards, etc is more difficult and time consuming as it has to be done on an item by item basis. Adding more LP items is possible as well as time consuming, I would actually like if the community would give us feedback via a ranked list, by importance. I personally haven't looked into it, but I know a lot of things are missing, but are there dropsuits, key weapons etc for each race that are missing. Sell to NPC is not happening in the near to mid term but switching the salvage to your own team is actually possible and pretty smart. Every race needs at least two main weapons, an av weapon, a sidearm, a heavy weapon, the full compliment of drop suits, a tank, a lav, a dropship, a small turret, a large turret. For the races that don't have things like heavy weapons or av (hi amarr) we should be able to purchase stuff like khanid swarms or khanid tanks, or viziam forges (ideally grabbing from their allies in the places where they lack). I've always been bothered by the incomplete racial diversity in this game and when it comes to facwar the lack of complete diversity will affect what team you play for. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12311	Posted - 2014.07.29 03:58:00 - [21] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for a detailed overview. We want to make start by multiplying the LP rewards as a simple kickstarter for people interested in FW and create a sustainable way of earning enough LP to fund their LP fittings. Second, we want to decrease the grind a little and make top standings easier to achieve. Removing ISK prices, or adding ISK rewards, etc is more difficult and time consuming as it has to be done on an item by item basis. Adding more LP items is possible as well as time consuming, I would actually like if the community would give us feedback via a ranked list, by importance. I personally haven't looked into it, but I know a lot of things are missing, but are there dropsuits, key weapons etc for each race that are missing. Sell to NPC is not happening in the near to mid term but switching the salvage to your own team is actually possible and pretty smart. Every race needs at least two main weapons, an av weapon, a sidearm, a heavy weapon, the full compliment of drop suits, a tank, a lav, a dropship, a small turret, a large turret. For the races that don't have things like heavy weapons or av (hi amarr) we should be able to purchase stuff like khanid swarms or khanid tanks, or viziam forges (ideally grabbing from their allies in the places where they lack). I've always been bothered by the incomplete racial diversity in this game and when it comes to facwar the lack of complete diversity will affect what team you play for. I'd certainly FW all day everyday for Khanid Tanks. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1233	Posted - 2014.07.29 03:58:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for a detailed overview. We want to make start by multiplying the LP rewards as a simple kickstarter for people interested in FW and create a sustainable way of earning enough LP to fund their LP fittings. Second, we want to decrease the grind a little and make top standings easier to achieve. Removing ISK prices, or adding ISK rewards, etc is more difficult and time consuming as it has to be done on an item by item basis. Adding more LP items is possible as well as time consuming, I would actually like if the community would give us feedback via a ranked list, by importance. I personally haven't looked into it, but I know a lot of things are missing, but are there dropsuits, key weapons etc for each race that are missing. Sell to NPC is not happening in the near to mid term but switching the salvage to your own team is actually possible and pretty smart. Thanks, Rattati. One serious question for you as you look into this: What should the balance be for "breaking even" in a FW match as far as risk vs reward? Example: My proto Cal Logi with i believe all but one module fully ISK purchased costs 55, 530 ISK and 1110 LP (across 3x factions). At level 10 under the current system it would take 2 battles to replace a single suit...definitely seems out of kilter. Even when scaling down to ADV and such the outlay of costs is a serious detractor to FW. My feeling is tha the earnings from FW should sustain you if you wish to be a full time FW player. So...what is your opinion on how many suits / vehicles worth of losses are acceptable by tier (Proto, Adv, Std) per match for a win to allow you to stay LP positive? please note...whole other discussion is total cost of suit in ISK for Logis. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
iKILLu osborne Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 125	Posted - 2014.07.29 04:24:00 - [23] - Quote the missing 1.8 dropsuits should take priority first. I also had an idea (very unlikely) but could a function be added to exchange one type of lp for another at a x3 rate for example i could trade 600cal lp for 200 gal lp,if that isn't possiple maybe make the lp earned being able to purchase alliance faction gear(cal&amarr) (gal&min) ^just an idea don't get all trolley on me and i don't care about lore just making a suggestion "uh guys" "i got to go back to the mcc those 10 ads's made me crap my dropsuit"
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6786	Posted - 2014.07.29 05:03:00 - [24] - Quote I can only speak for the Gallente LP Store since it is literally the only one I traverse. -Commando Suits -Sentinel Suits -Ion Pistol + there should be a specialist Ion Pistol (fully auto Ion Pistol ? ) On top of that there needs to be more immersion amongst the Factional Equipment. For example you could reskin the Federation Assault Gk.0 with the Federal Marine gk.0 that came in the Gallente Combat pack. There just needs to be something that sets them apart from the basic equipment. Even if it's something as trivial as color. see you space cowboy...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12316	Posted - 2014.07.29 05:03:00 - [25] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: the missing 1.8 dropsuits should take priority first. I also had an idea (very unlikely) but could a function be added to exchange one type of lp for another at a x3 rate for example i could trade 600cal lp for 200 gal lp,if that isn't possiple maybe make the lp earned being able to purchase alliance faction gear(cal&amarr) (gal&min) ^just an idea don't get all trolley on me and i don't care about lore just making a suggestion That doesn't make sense. LP is not a true currency its a measurement of the trust and appreciation a Faction has for you. While Amarr and Cal, Gall and Min are allies....they certainly aren't friends. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6786	Posted - 2014.07.29 05:10:00 - [26] - Quote True Adamance wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: the missing 1.8 dropsuits should take priority first. I also had an idea (very unlikely) but could a function be added to exchange one type of lp for another at a x3 rate for example i could trade 600cal lp for 200 gal lp,if that isn't possiple maybe make the lp earned being able to purchase alliance faction gear(cal&amarr) (gal&min) ^just an idea don't get all trolley on me and i don't care about lore just making a suggestion That doesn't make sense. LP is not a true currency its a measurement of the trust and appreciation a Faction has for you. While Amarr and Cal, Gall and Min are allies....they certainly aren't friends. Damn Trash Monkeys. It's okay! I can say it, I have Minmatar friends. see you space cowboy...
iKILLu osborne Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 125	Posted - 2014.07.29 06:46:00 - [27] - Quote True Adamance wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: the missing 1.8 dropsuits should take priority first. I also had an idea (very unlikely) but could a function be added to exchange one type of lp for another at a x3 rate for example i could trade 600cal lp for 200 gal lp,if that isn't possiple maybe make the lp earned being able to purchase alliance faction gear(cal&amarr) (gal&min) ^just an idea don't get all trolley on me and i don't care about lore just making a suggestion That doesn't make sense. LP is not a true currency its a measurement of the trust and appreciation a Faction has for you. While Amarr and Cal, Gall and Min are allies....they certainly aren't friends. as i said adamance you are a troll go into your cave your drunk( and lonely) "uh guys" "i got to go back to the mcc those 10 ads's made me crap my dropsuit"
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 796	Posted - 2014.07.29 07:15:00 - [28] - Quote I don't mind the grind, its something that sets you apart from other players, and if LP payout is going up I see no problem with it. Don't change the grind! Also increasing the salvage rate too making it a bit more viable. Will note, I don't mean increase by <50% (which i think it is now) but make it something like 30%-50%, so the salvage levels are more consistent. I either get next to no salvage, or a lot of the stuff. More consistency would be great. I need a way to get rid of the junk in my inventory... I don't want to use it because, well... Its junk. Word Crimes 21Day Free Trial
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 311	Posted - 2014.07.29 07:54:00 - [29] - Quote Each Faction needs complete Dropsuits and Tanks If people could get their Armor Tanks from some other faction maybe they wouldn't fight on Gallente all the time just for tanks.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6787	Posted - 2014.07.29 11:52:00 - [30] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: Each Faction needs complete Dropsuits and Tanks If people could get their Armor Tanks from some other faction maybe they wouldn't fight on Gallente all the time just for tanks. I'm going to be honest, that tank fitting is ***. It forces you to have two turrets. Trust me, that's not the reason people play for Gallente. I've heard plenty of excuses but that one just is not one. see you space cowboy...*

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8880	Posted - 2014.07.29 16:55:00 - [31] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: I can only speak for the Gallente LP Store since it is literally the only one I traverse. -Commando Suits -Sentinel Suits -Ion Pistol + there should be a specialist Ion Pistol (fully auto Ion Pistol ? ) On top of that there needs to be more immersion amongst the Factional Equipment. For example you could reskin the Federation Assault Gk.0 with the Federal Marine gk.0 that came in the Gallente Combat pack. There just needs to be something that sets them apart from the basic equipment. Even if it's something as trivial as color. Absolutely agree, the gear from FW needs to stand out and say, "Hey, I got this because I'm loyal to this faction." Something as trivial as unique skins for the dropsuits would go a long, long way in making FW feel more immersive and more interesting to other players. In my opinion it is a high priority (though I'd still but sidearm balance in front of it). I know it'd likely take a bit of resources because you'd have to re-add all those suits into the game and you'd have to have your artists design a bunch of new skins (sure you can reuse the Faction Pack skins but that only works for Assaults). Despite this, I imagine the work would be done by a different team opposed to the guys who work on number and statistic balancing, and additionally all these new suits would transfer right over to Legion development as well, two birds in one stone. And now I'm getting ahead of myself, but if CCP isn't planning for that level of immersion for Legion's launch (unique skins for Faction items as an example), then I have no clue what CCP is thinking. Legion needs to be very fleshed out the first time the public gets their hands on it, and all that can be done with cross development with Dust. But I digress. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 950	Posted - 2014.07.29 21:43:00 - [32] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Thanks, Rattati. One serious question for you as you look into this: What should the balance be for "breaking even" in a FW match as far as risk vs reward? First, you have to work out a standard loyalty point -> isk conversion ratio. In Eve, the gold standard is 1LP -> 1000 isk; anything less than that is bad value. In Dust, we don't have a player market so the isk value can't really be set, but if we peg it at the same rate, we get: Loyalty Tier level 1: 326k isk-equivalent for a win, 65k for a loss . . . Loyalty Tier 10 win: 659k for a win, 132k for a loss. Personally, I think that's a pretty good payout structure; the prices in the LP store just need to be normalised to make it happen. Dust/Eve transfers
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1233	Posted - 2014.07.30 03:05:00 - [33] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Thanks, Rattati. One serious question for you as you look into this: What should the balance be for "breaking even" in a FW match as far as risk vs reward? First, you have to work out a standard loyalty point -> isk conversion ratio. In Eve, the gold standard is 1LP -> 1000 isk; anything less than that is bad value. In Dust, we don't have a player market so the isk value can't really be set, but if we peg it at the same rate, we get: Loyalty Tier level 1: 326k isk-equivalent for a win, 65k for a loss . . . Loyalty Tier 10 win: 659k for a win, 132k for a loss. Personally, I think that's a pretty good payout structure; the prices in the LP store just need to be normalised to make it happen. Sponk - I've done similar math but the breakdown in the formula is that in an ISK driven match my performance directly impacts my payout. Effort is mildly relevant in FW; it also doesn't incentives you to use better gear to help secure the win. Also...i'm not quite sure how you calculated the LP to ISK conversion. Did you take a base item and convert it from LP to ISK in cost? Conceptually, i don't think I should have to fight half a dozen battles to pay for one kitted out drop suit. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 709	Posted - 2014.07.30 04:51:00 - [34] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: 1) Remove the ISK fee from loyalty items, perhaps raise LP prices to compensate 2) Add ISK payments to FW contracts in addition to LP payments 3) Add a "Sell to NPC Market" option so we can make ISK off our salvage 4) Change the salvage feature such that you salvage stuff from your own team's losses instead of the other team's Personally I would prefer option (1), but if (3) were at all possible then clearly that would be the best route. Ill comment on 3 first : I dont want militia ** that the casual Amarr blue dot is wearing as they're depending on a more " loyal" player to get out Proto suits in an attempt to win for the sake of attaining rank. We know how blue dots can be, and they sit back the first time they get rebuffed leaving more work for the hardcore players that want the "win" to dig deeper into there own pockets to make that happen .So we get shittier more cowardly blue dots that benefit from inaction through salvage.Turning FW into an afk farmers dream....So no that wont work for me. 2 is a more viable option but your suggestion is simplistic and this also concerns 3 as well .LP modules can be worn/used at the lower skill level so a character with only advanced skill can use proto equipment and modules. Having noobs salvage or be able to sell back proto salvage the equivalent of the AUR value item is also a no-go for CCP. 1 again a player is getting access to use equipment they would otherwise not be able to use because of skills so you want us to pay more LP for those...... The other downside to these suggestions is the afk'er CCP knows this and this game mode is the only game mode that even slightly affects EVE and thus as they're getting rid of it (DUST) then they want it to make less impact for the duration of its lifespan.Hence the long wait times for matches. If you talk to any EVE pilot they believe they should have dominion over the" lessers" and that includes us. Your Dust/Legion character will only ever be a foot slogging ground pounder because that's what the pilots/EVE subscribers want. Even if you attain the rank 10 in DUST it in no way raises your corporations standing in EVE online. So if a EVE player were to look at the Classiari it would only say that you are in the Imperial Guard and if a pilot were to join the Classiari to do obs his work in the 24th is seperate from yours, and only his work raises your standing in Empire. All your feats, all your victories, all the ISK spent to achieve that means absolutely NOTHING in eve online. What you do in Dust in no way raises your corp standing to the Empire you are fighting for. So EVE players dont care. They get no benefit. Last I'll close with this. There are no Trophies for this game on PSN. CCP has given us no rank system, like they do in EVE. If a DUST player is in an EVE corp the EVE players cant even give you a ribbon or a medal for your achievements. You in no way are set apart from your DUST/EVE peers by even accomplishing this monumental and questionably achievable feat So in the end it means nothing............ Fortune favors the Bold,but Success favors the Resolute** Unbent,Unburdened, UNSTOPPABLE Amarr loyalist
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12365	Posted - 2014.07.30 05:18:00 - [35] - Quote Pretty much. Throughout the Burn Huola I know FC's were asking who was winning planetside but never cared since it meant nothing to them. Dust FW has not emphasis. There should be tangible benefits and bonuses for owning systems, and dustricts should not fall just because one douche bag corp, including my own, could put 16 non useless players in a single chat and call that tactics. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 958	Posted - 2014.07.30 05:20:00 - [36] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Sponk - I've done similar math but the breakdown in the formula is that in an ISK driven match my performance directly impacts my payout. Effort is mildly relevant in FW; it also doesn't incentives you to use better gear to help secure the win. I'm not sure what you mean. The disparity between the layouts for winning vs losing heavily incentivise using better gear and organised squads. Quote: Also...i'm not quite sure how you calculated the LP to ISK conversion. Did you take a base item and convert it from LP to ISK in cost? I looked at the LP rewards and multiplied by 1000. Once a LP->ISK ratio for income is decided on, then the next step is to adjust LP expenditure so that it roughly matches up, by whatever heuristics you choose. Quote: Conceptually, i don't think I should have to fight half a dozen battles to pay for one kitted out drop suit. My proto suits are usually ~150k, which means going x/4 is still break-even under my proposal. Care to explain your statement further? Dust/Eve transfers
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1233	Posted - 2014.07.30 06:02:00 - [37] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Sponk - I've done similar math but the breakdown in the formula is that in an ISK driven match my performance directly impacts my payout. Effort is mildly relevant in FW; it also doesn't incentives you to use better gear to help secure the win. I'm not sure what you mean. The disparity between the layouts for winning vs losing heavily incentivise using better gear and organised squads. Quote: Also...i'm not quite sure how you calculated the LP to ISK conversion. Did you take a base item and convert it from LP to ISK in cost? I looked at the LP rewards and multiplied by 1000. Once a LP->ISK ratio for income is decided on, then the next step is to adjust LP expenditure so that it roughly matches up, by whatever heuristics you choose. Quote: Conceptually, i don't think I should have to fight half a dozen battles to pay for one kitted out drop suit. My proto suits are usually ~150k, which means going x/4 is still break-even under my proposal. Care to explain your statement further? Sponk...sorry if I wasn't clear, was rushing through the post earlier. 1) In ISK based matches your ISK reward is heavily based on your personal performance in battle...LP fights aren't. You get what you get based on team victory / defeat and standings. Not necessarily a bad thing mind you but I would like to see performance matter in your LP payout like a bonus on top of the baseline award. It's been touched on various places but from a raw payout efficiency standpoint running cheap gear is better for payouts...I think the payouts should be significantly increased and create a heavier incentive for victory. My overall opinion is that if a player wants to make a career out of FW the payout structure should support that at least as well as pub & PC matches. 2) When I last did this conversion (long time ago) i took a Federation Duvolle AR and market place Duvolle AR and used that as my baseline conversion tool. My assumption is that the rate is consistent across items. The numbers seemed different from what i remembered and what you were using - that's all. 3) I run full support logi suits so my suit costs run about 210K to 225K ISK depending on load out. I went in and replicated the fit with all LP stuff and it comes out to 1110 LP spread across 3x factions. I should have qualified my comment with that since the price of various suits can vary pretty widely. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 959	Posted - 2014.07.30 06:34:00 - [38] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Sponk...sorry if I wasn't clear, was rushing through the post earlier. 1) In ISK based matches your ISK reward is heavily based on your personal performance in battle...LP fights aren't. You get what you get based on team victory / defeat and standings. Not necessarily a bad thing mind you but I would like to see performance matter in your LP payout like a bonus on top of the baseline award. It's been touched on various places but from a raw payout efficiency standpoint running cheap gear is better for payouts...I think the payouts should be significantly increased and create a heavier incentive for victory. My overall opinion is that if a player wants to make a career out of FW the payout structure should support that at least as well as pub & PC matches. 2) When I last did this conversion (long time ago) i took a Federation Duvolle AR and market place Duvolle AR and used that as my baseline conversion tool. My assumption is that the rate is consistent across items. The numbers seemed different from what i remembered and what you were using - that's all. 3) I run full support logi suits so my suit costs run about 210K to 225K ISK depending on load out. I went in and replicated the fit with all LP stuff and it comes out to 1110 LP spread across 3x factions. I should have qualified my comment with that since the price of various suits can vary pretty widely. Ah, I see. Yeah, I can see the incentive for personal effort as a component of your reward. I would, however, say that my preference is that personal effort should be de-emphasised compared to pub matches. Remember, LP boosters do exist. With regards to LP conversion, has anyone done the analysis? Would love to see a spreadsheet. Logistics suits will necessarily be more expensive, because prototype equipment is incredibly expensive. I guess break-even time varies wildly based on fit, but proto logis probably aren't the best representative fit to compare against. Dust/Eve transfers
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1235	Posted - 2014.07.30 07:32:00 - [39] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Ah, I see. Yeah, I can see the incentive for personal effort as a component of your reward. I would, however, say that my preference is that personal effort should be de-emphasised compared to pub matches. Remember, LP boosters do exist. With regards to LP conversion, has anyone done the analysis? Would love to see a spreadsheet. Logistics suits will necessarily be more expensive, because prototype equipment is incredibly expensive. I guess break-even time varies wildly based on fit, but proto logis probably aren't the best representative fit to compare against. This is probably one of those facets that will be heavily dependent on personal perspective and we just have divergent views. As for LP boosters, they represent an investment in something that has an exceedingly low probability of transferring to Legion if it is ever green lit - just not worth it for me. I remember some guys doing some detailed work when the LP store was first introduced. I did a really rudimentary level of analysis (i.e. one item conversion) however I think that you could look at something a little higher than 1LP to 1000 ISK conversion ...say 1 to 1500. It's difficult to get a handle on what the rate should be but that's just a hip shot guess. As for logi costs (and relative costs of suits / vehicles in general) are a whole topic in and off itself. That said, i'm not sure there is such a think as a "representative fit" because of the large range costs in fits and vehicles. To a degree this get's at the question I originally was posing to CCP Rattati - what is the break even for payout balance? This is why i'm more motivated by individual performance bonus for FW on top of the baseline victory payout to off set the variances in ISK or LP efficiency. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen


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