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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1233
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Posted - 2014.07.29 03:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Thanks for a detailed overview.
We want to make start by multiplying the LP rewards as a simple kickstarter for people interested in FW and create a sustainable way of earning enough LP to fund their LP fittings.
Second, we want to decrease the grind a little and make top standings easier to achieve.
Removing ISK prices, or adding ISK rewards, etc is more difficult and time consuming as it has to be done on an item by item basis.
Adding more LP items is possible as well as time consuming, I would actually like if the community would give us feedback via a ranked list, by importance. I personally haven't looked into it, but I know a lot of things are missing, but are there dropsuits, key weapons etc for each race that are missing.
Sell to NPC is not happening in the near to mid term but switching the salvage to your own team is actually possible and pretty smart.
Thanks, Rattati.
One serious question for you as you look into this: What should the balance be for "breaking even" in a FW match as far as risk vs reward?
Example: My proto Cal Logi with i believe all but one module fully ISK purchased costs 55, 530 ISK and 1110 LP (across 3x factions). At level 10 under the current system it would take 2 battles to replace a single suit...definitely seems out of kilter.
Even when scaling down to ADV and such the outlay of costs is a serious detractor to FW. My feeling is tha the earnings from FW should sustain you if you wish to be a full time FW player. So...what is your opinion on how many suits / vehicles worth of losses are acceptable by tier (Proto, Adv, Std) per match for a win to allow you to stay LP positive?
please note...whole other discussion is total cost of suit in ISK for Logis.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1233
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 03:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
Thanks, Rattati.
One serious question for you as you look into this: What should the balance be for "breaking even" in a FW match as far as risk vs reward?
First, you have to work out a standard loyalty point -> isk conversion ratio. In Eve, the gold standard is 1LP -> 1000 isk; anything less than that is bad value. In Dust, we don't have a player market so the isk value can't really be set, but if we peg it at the same rate, we get: Loyalty Tier level 1: 326k isk-equivalent for a win, 65k for a loss . . . Loyalty Tier 10 win: 659k for a win, 132k for a loss. Personally, I think that's a pretty good payout structure; the prices in the LP store just need to be normalised to make it happen.
Sponk - I've done similar math but the breakdown in the formula is that in an ISK driven match my performance directly impacts my payout. Effort is mildly relevant in FW; it also doesn't incentives you to use better gear to help secure the win.
Also...i'm not quite sure how you calculated the LP to ISK conversion. Did you take a base item and convert it from LP to ISK in cost?
Conceptually, i don't think I should have to fight half a dozen battles to pay for one kitted out drop suit.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1233
|
Posted - 2014.07.30 06:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Sponk - I've done similar math but the breakdown in the formula is that in an ISK driven match my performance directly impacts my payout. Effort is mildly relevant in FW; it also doesn't incentives you to use better gear to help secure the win.
I'm not sure what you mean. The disparity between the layouts for winning vs losing heavily incentivise using better gear and organised squads. Quote:Also...i'm not quite sure how you calculated the LP to ISK conversion. Did you take a base item and convert it from LP to ISK in cost? I looked at the LP rewards and multiplied by 1000. Once a LP->ISK ratio for income is decided on, then the next step is to adjust LP expenditure so that it roughly matches up, by whatever heuristics you choose. Quote:Conceptually, i don't think I should have to fight half a dozen battles to pay for one kitted out drop suit. My proto suits are usually ~150k, which means going x/4 is still break-even under my proposal. Care to explain your statement further?
Sponk...sorry if I wasn't clear, was rushing through the post earlier.
1) In ISK based matches your ISK reward is heavily based on your personal performance in battle...LP fights aren't. You get what you get based on team victory / defeat and standings. Not necessarily a bad thing mind you but I would like to see performance matter in your LP payout like a bonus on top of the baseline award. It's been touched on various places but from a raw payout efficiency standpoint running cheap gear is better for payouts...I think the payouts should be significantly increased and create a heavier incentive for victory.
My overall opinion is that if a player wants to make a career out of FW the payout structure should support that at least as well as pub & PC matches.
2) When I last did this conversion (long time ago) i took a Federation Duvolle AR and market place Duvolle AR and used that as my baseline conversion tool. My assumption is that the rate is consistent across items. The numbers seemed different from what i remembered and what you were using - that's all.
3) I run full support logi suits so my suit costs run about 210K to 225K ISK depending on load out. I went in and replicated the fit with all LP stuff and it comes out to 1110 LP spread across 3x factions. I should have qualified my comment with that since the price of various suits can vary pretty widely.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1235
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Posted - 2014.07.30 07:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:
Ah, I see. Yeah, I can see the incentive for personal effort as a component of your reward. I would, however, say that my preference is that personal effort should be de-emphasised compared to pub matches. Remember, LP boosters do exist.
With regards to LP conversion, has anyone done the analysis? Would love to see a spreadsheet.
Logistics suits will necessarily be more expensive, because prototype equipment is incredibly expensive. I guess break-even time varies wildly based on fit, but proto logis probably aren't the best representative fit to compare against.
This is probably one of those facets that will be heavily dependent on personal perspective and we just have divergent views. As for LP boosters, they represent an investment in something that has an exceedingly low probability of transferring to Legion if it is ever green lit - just not worth it for me.
I remember some guys doing some detailed work when the LP store was first introduced. I did a really rudimentary level of analysis (i.e. one item conversion) however I think that you could look at something a little higher than 1LP to 1000 ISK conversion ...say 1 to 1500. It's difficult to get a handle on what the rate should be but that's just a hip shot guess.
As for logi costs (and relative costs of suits / vehicles in general) are a whole topic in and off itself. That said, i'm not sure there is such a think as a "representative fit" because of the large range costs in fits and vehicles. To a degree this get's at the question I originally was posing to CCP Rattati - what is the break even for payout balance? This is why i'm more motivated by individual performance bonus for FW on top of the baseline victory payout to off set the variances in ISK or LP efficiency.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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