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Brokerib wrote:

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

Why exactly is the CAl scout getting a nerf now?

EVERYONE is using them?
I cant hide from them with a proper fit?
Is it OP?

NO.

Please elaborate why make useless something that is working as intended.

You finally have something here CCP.I consider the game is pretty close to balanced TBQH.
But you keep scr3wing things up nerfing things without reason while NOT giving the players a RESPEC to use their hard earned SP in something that works and that they want.

Give every player with a CAL scout a RESPEC on Cal Light Dropsuits.This is a POOR strategy to sell more boosters BTW.

-IF THE PROBLEM is Passive scanning, REMOVE IT. We are not getting any SP for it anyways.

Don't know if anyone has already covered this. But...

Specifics:

Cal scouts solo is not the problem. Cal scouts in a group is. They've become the new 360 scanner, but worse. Worse because, unlike active scanners, there's no warning, no cool down, and no way to avoid it outside of very specific fits (in effect, just the Gal scout).

Everyone in competitive play is either using the Cal scout as a hyper scanner in a 6 man squad, or the Gal at max dampening to counter it. The Amarr scout continues to lack a defined role and the Minmatar is being sidelined to the point that it is no longer appearing in competitive play. CCP has stats to back it up.

Removal of passive scanning has been requested, but is not technically feasible at this time. Check footnotes for hot-fix Charlie.

This change is a short term solution while the technical details of removing shared passive scans is worked out, along with implementing module efficacy bonuses to replace the current passive bonuses (also in the footnotes for Charlie).

With the expected changes, all scouts will be able to reasonably drop off tac net (2 damps + cloak, or 3 damps), and will all have viable range and precision (though Amarr and Cal will excel).

In effect it gives the Amarr scout a worthwhile bonus (and hopefully a worthwhile role), and makes the Minmatar scout viable in competitive play again, while normalising EWAR.

It also re-intoduces the Gal logi as the go to battlefield scanner, with all the pro's and con's of active scanning (better range, very high precision, but time limited, alerts the target, and exposes the user).

Feel free to ask if you want more info.

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KING CHECKMATE Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 5278	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:46:00 - [31] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Wait....I'm confused, you say players should get a respect because CCP is nerfing the call scouts passive scans but then you say passive scans can be removed cause there is no sp investment. My mind....what are you saying? Also I speced cal scout because I wanted a cal scout. Shields fit my play style and I'm caldari through and through. Wanting a respec because they balanced a broken aspect of the game is just silly. He is saying players should get a respec because the bonuses are being removed or changed and thusly not what folks skilled into . He is also suggesting the removal of passive scanning because their is no war point gain involved. Wow someone with a brain. Nice. We wanted Passive Scans gone, CCP said that they can't do that. Removing the OP precision was the next step. Now all scouts can dampen enough to dodge scans. If all scouts are able to dodge Passive Scans then there is not point in going for a precision based suit. This equals less diversity. Stealth Storm
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1705	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:50:00 - [32] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Wait....I'm confused, you say players should get a respect because CCP is nerfing the call scouts passive scans but then you say passive scans can be removed cause there is no sp investment. My mind....what are you saying? Also I speced cal scout because I wanted a cal scout. Shields fit my play style and I'm caldari through and through. Wanting a respec because they balanced a broken aspect of the game is just silly. He is saying players should get a respec because the bonuses are being removed or changed and thusly not what folks skilled into . He is also suggesting the removal of passive scanning because their is no war point gain involved. Wow someone with a brain. Nice. We wanted Passive Scans gone, CCP said that they can't do that. Removing the OP precision was the next step. Now all scouts can dampen enough to dodge scans. If all scouts are able to dodge Passive Scans then there is not point in going for a precision based suit. This equals less diversity. As does OP passive scans, where only the Cal ultra-scanner or Gal ultra-damp were viable. Passives are still viable for 90% of suits on the field. Few scouts fit dual damps + cloak or triple damps. Knowledge is power
KING CHECKMATE Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 5278	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:54:00 - [33] - Quote Brokerib wrote: . Few scouts fit dual damps + cloak or triple damps. Of course, a Cal scout able to Scan a (1cx P.Damp) dampened Gal scout is obviously at a EHP Disadvantage and its easier to kill. 2Cx Prec + 1cx Prof DAmp. scout its all its needed. Enough damp to avoid most cal scouts, and enough EHP to deal with the few CAl scouts able to scan you. Plus enough precision to see them coming too. Passive scanning is cr*p. Should be removed. Stealth Storm
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1705	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:58:00 - [34] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Brokerib wrote: . Few scouts fit dual damps + cloak or triple damps. Of course, a Cal scout able to Scan a (1cx P.Damp) dampened Gal scout is obviously at a EHP Disadvantage and its easier to kill. 2Cx Prec + 1cx Prof DAmp. scout its all its needed. Enough damp to avoid most cal scouts, and enough EHP to deal with the few CAl scouts able to scan you. Plus enough precision to see them coming too. Passive scanning is cr*p. Should be removed. Agreed. Gal is still the "best" scout and shared passive scanning needs to go. Neither is going to be fixed currently, shared passives because it's technically complex, and the Gal scout because its expected that changes to armor plate and adding in module efficacy instead of passive bonuses will change it. Which is also technically complex. Look to Delta or beyond. This is a balance pass for now, not for all time. Knowledge is power
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1945	Posted - 2014.07.15 05:25:00 - [35] - Quote It saddens me that all anyone can focus on is scout v scout balance. "Oh, if you break MY toy this OTHER scout will be FotM!" No class is supposed to be FotM. Until you can no longer say any one suit type will be FotM if one of the other 4 is nerfed, that suit class is not balanced with the rest of the game. Basically what I'm saying is.... until the scout CLASS is balanced with the rest of the game, only the scout suits as effective at their role or less so than the weakest suits of the other suit classes in the game have any right to complain because even if nerfed they are still better than many other suits at the other suit's role. TL;DR: Don't care until assaults, the broken scouts, commandos and logi's are worth using properly in competitive play. A suit getting nerfed down and still being better than every assault suit in the game get's no sympathy. Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1106	Posted - 2014.07.15 06:05:00 - [36] - Quote As is, Cal Scout is game breaking for Min Scouts. I think nerfing precision on Cal is a decent way to balance this problem. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1709	Posted - 2014.07.15 06:18:00 - [37] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: It saddens me that all anyone can focus on is scout v scout balance. "Oh, if you break MY toy this OTHER scout will be FotM!" No class is supposed to be FotM. Until you can no longer say any one suit type will be FotM if one of the other 3 is nerfed, that suit class is not balanced with the rest of the game. Basically what I'm saying is.... until the scout CLASS is balanced with the rest of the game, only the scout suits as effective at their role or less so than the weakest suits of the other suit classes in the game have any right to complain because even if nerfed they are still better than many other suits at the other suit's role. TL;DR: Don't care until assaults, the broken scouts, commandos and logi's are worth using properly in competitive play. A suit getting nerfed down and still being better than every assault suit in the game get's no sympathy. You're not wrong, but until Assaults get a balance pass, inter-class balance is the best we can do for the moment. And the Amarr and Minmatar scouts have a legitimate concern, regardless of where the rest of the suits are. Heavies are in a good place currently, scouts (excepting the effectiveness of shared EWAR) are in a good place. Assaults need to be buffed so they are viable, and then we can look at rebalancing everything from a leveled playing field. Hopefully the meduim changes for Charlie will take care of that, so we can go back and look at cross-class balance. Knowledge is power
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1721	Posted - 2014.07.15 06:41:00 - [38] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: We wanted Passive Scans gone, CCP said that they can't do that. Removing the OP precision was the next step. Now all scouts can dampen enough to dodge scans. If all scouts are able to dodge Passive Scans then there is not point in going for a precision based suit. This equals less diversity. Because scanning heavy and medium suits and some classes of scouts is pointless Again if you want to have those passive scans then you have to fit for them, its now a choice of fitting tank or fitting for scans which actually creates more diversity as you don't have a "one suit does it all" You sure are trying to strike all the cords tho, "ccp is taking our crutch away" "we should have a respec" "this is making the game less diverse"
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4082	Posted - 2014.07.15 07:21:00 - [39] - Quote The scout role has these advantages: -better e-war -smaller hitbox -faster movement speed -secondary equipment slot -bonus to cloak -faster regen For these disadvantages: -low hp values...your survivability depends on your e-war and strafing/flanking ability -slightly lower slot count Except the Caldari Scout is able to tank 450 shields with a base regen of 50 hp/s. On top of the advantages listed above, how is that not unbalanced? The whole point of the huge list of advantages is so that if I see a scout in my reticle I should be able to kill them easily. Their cloak, e-war abilities, and fast movement speed is enough to easily have the upper hand over every suit in the game to prevent them from being spotted/hit. On top of that the cal scout's shield delay is so small that the penalty for stacking 4 extenders doesn't do anything. Not to mention that the assault needs to use one slot for an energizer whereas the scoutalready has a base high enough that it would be a waste to use one. Heck, having a 50 meter 360 24/7 scan should be enough of an advantage from being a scout anyways right? Just moving around the e-war bonuses isn't going to do ** for the Cal scout. It'll still be the same (if not more) OP scout as it is now, except that I guess other scouts will have a chance to counter it now because it won't be able to see them... Cause that's how you balance a game, making the best suits in the game only counterable by the other best suits in the game -_- 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!**
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 168	Posted - 2014.07.15 07:28:00 - [40] - Quote calvin b wrote: The problem is the scout is more assault than scout. Its not supposed to be able to do what it does. To solve this get rid of the cloak and buff assaults. No removing eWar options only leads to more warrior scouts not less. Not One Lifetime

Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 307	Posted - 2014.07.15 10:00:00 - [41] - Quote Amarr will be next FOTM. Two months roll by and then GD will be talking about its nerf. I thought Caldari Scouts were the scout hunters. CCP and their catering to whiny players in Dust is beyond annoying.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 693	Posted - 2014.07.15 12:45:00 - [42] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: We wanted Passive Scans gone Who is this 'WE' you talk about?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1188	Posted - 2014.07.15 13:21:00 - [43] - Quote Brokerib wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Why exactly is the CAl scout getting a nerf now? EVERYONE is using them? I cant hide from them with a proper fit? Is it OP? NO. Please elaborate why make useless something that is working as intended. You finally have something here CCP.I consider the game is pretty close to balanced TBQH. But you keep scr3wing things up nerfing things without reason while NOT giving the players a RESPEC to use their hard earned SP in something that works and that they want. Give every player with a CAL scout a RESPEC on Cal Light Dropsuits.This is a POOR strategy to sell more boosters BTW. -IF THE PROBLEM is Passive scanning, REMOVE IT. We are not getting any SP for it anyways. Don't know if anyone has already covered this. But... Specifics: Cal scouts solo is not the problem. Cal scouts in a group is. They've become the new 360 scanner, but worse. Worse because, unlike active scanners, there's no warning, no cool down, and no way to avoid it outside of very specific fits (in effect, just the Gal scout). Everyone in competitive play is either using the Cal scout as a hyper scanner in a 6 man squad, or the Gal at max dampening to counter it. The Amarr scout continues to lack a defined role and the Minmatar is being sidelined to the point that it is no longer appearing in competitive play. CCP has stats to back it up. Removal of passive scanning has been requested, but is not technically feasible at this time. Check footnotes for hot-fix Charlie. This change is a short term solution while the technical details of removing shared passive scans is worked out, along with implementing module efficacy bonuses to replace the current passive bonuses (also in the footnotes for Charlie). With the expected changes, all scouts will be able to reasonably drop off tac net (2 damps + cloak, or 3 damps), and will all have viable range and precision (though Amarr and Cal will excel). In effect it gives the Amarr scout a worthwhile bonus (and hopefully a worthwhile role), and makes the Minmatar scout viable in competitive play again, while normalising EWAR. It also re-intoduces the Gal logi as the go to battlefield scanner, with all the pro's and con's of active scanning (better range, very high precision, but time limited, alerts the target, and exposes the user). Feel free to ask if you want more info. How do the proposed changes do anything but change the passive scanning scout for the squad into Amarr, rather than do anything else? Those playing that role will simply change to Amarr, no?
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1722	Posted - 2014.07.15 14:36:00 - [44] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: How do the proposed changes do anything but change the passive scanning scout for the squad into Amarr, rather than do anything else? Those playing that role will simply change to Amarr, no? Max precision will be 18, as opposed to 14. They can change, but can be countered by an appropriately fitted scout of any race. Reduction in the effect of Range Amps has also been mentioned, which will limit the range they can get if they want to remain dampened. The best (precision and range) scans will belong to the Gal Logi (15dB), which will serve as a partial counter to scouts in general. Doesn't help Mediums or Heavies significantly at this point but, as mentioned previously, this is a balance pass to normalise EWAR between scouts while additional changes are being prepared to more thoroughly change the system. Knowledge is power
SINISTER CORPERATION SINISTER DEATH SQUAD 9	Posted - 2014.07.15 14:44:00 - [45] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Why exactly is the CAl scout getting a nerf now? EVERYONE is using them? I cant hide from them with a proper fit? Is it OP? NO. Please elaborate why make useless something that is working as intended. You finally have something here CCP.I consider the game is pretty close to balanced TBQH. But you keep scr3wing things up nerfing things without reason while NOT giving the players a RESPEC to use their hard earned SP in something that works and that they want. Give every player with a CAL scout a RESPEC on Cal Light Dropsuits.This is a POOR strategy to sell more boosters BTW. -IF THE PROBLEM is Passive scanning, REMOVE IT. We are not getting any SP for it anyways. You mean I cant hide from it with a proper fit correct. so I have to punish myself and my team to not get slayed every 1 minute? seems fair :)
NAV HIV The Generals Anime Empire. 1902	Posted - 2014.07.15 15:00:00 - [46] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Why exactly is the CAl scout getting a nerf now? EVERYONE is using them? I cant hide from them with a proper fit? Is it OP? NO. Please elaborate why make useless something that is working as intended. You finally have something here CCP.I consider the game is pretty close to balanced TBQH. But you keep scr3wing things up nerfing things without reason while NOT giving the players a RESPEC to use their hard earned SP in something that works and that they want. Give every player with a CAL scout a RESPEC on Cal Light Dropsuits.This is a POOR strategy to sell more boosters BTW. -IF THE PROBLEM is Passive scanning, REMOVE IT. We are not getting any SP for it anyways. Well Said...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2821	Posted - 2014.07.15 15:10:00 - [47] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: IF THE PROBLEM is Passive scanning, REMOVE IT. Can't. / discussion Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 390	Posted - 2014.07.15 15:17:00 - [48] - Quote boo hoo. your caldari 'I see everything and you cant see me' suit is being nerfed...... so what I run gal scout. its also getting slightly nerfed.. am I complaing? no. why? because I actually use dampening modules /kin cats to actually be a scout and assassinate the enemy with my creo shotgun. stop compaling and sacrifice your slots for what you want. if you want to do something. your going to have to have a trade off for something else. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 2036	Posted - 2014.07.15 15:51:00 - [49] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: We wanted Passive Scans gone Who is this 'WE' you talk about? I believe he means scouts that have a forum presence and have spent a significant portion of their time over the past year discussing, arguing and fighting about scoutly things with their brothers and sisters over in the barbershop. Double posting like a Kaiser.
xAckie Ghost. Mob 426	Posted - 2014.07.15 17:00:00 - [50] - Quote why will everyone move to Amarr Scout? Cal had precision and range. Isnt CCP saying precision bonus on the Amarr wont be as low as Cals? Yet Gal Scout has dampened bonus plus cloak damp bonus. Surely everyone will go Gal Scout? And we will start to see more of the broken mechanic: invisible players

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3267	Posted - 2014.07.15 20:23:00 - [51] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I'd rather have range amps for a bonus on the A-scout This actually makes sense > Check RND out here
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 684	Posted - 2014.07.15 20:53:00 - [52] - Quote I didn't even bother reading all the replies but you guys are seriously stupid. Just so ******* stupid it's sad. The Caldari scout is OP. It just is. It doesn't take more than one PC match to see this; everything revolves around avoiding or being the cal scout. Don't even get me started on the 700 eHP cal scouts in pubs which make every assault useless and completely helpless because of a scan precision which assaults can't get under without 2 plus Dampeners. Listen it's not a nerf, it's a change. You get range, now you can sacrifice your tank to get precision. Amarr gets precision, now it can sacrifice it's tank to get range. Actually all scouts can reach similar number now with full ewar suits, go ahead and check Rattati spreadsheet. Plus Caldari by nature are supposed to be long range experts, whoa that makes too much sense. How many of you actually wanted to be a cal scout for the sake of being a cal scout. I know most of you did it because you saw how awesome it was. That's what you get for chasing FOTM and being a scrub. A true cal scout would laugh at all this pointless QQ and probably be glad that you FOTM douchebags are leaving the suit. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
KING CHECKMATE Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 5288	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:15:00 - [53] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: boo hoo. your caldari 'I see everything and you cant see me' suit is being nerfed...... so what I run gal scout. its also getting slightly nerfed.. am I complaing? no. why? because I actually use dampening modules /kin cats to actually be a scout and assassinate the enemy with my creo shotgun. stop compaling and sacrifice your slots for what you want. if you want to do something. your going to have to have a trade off for something else. I actually main the GAL scout. I use 2 cx PRecision enh.2Cx Prof Damps.1Comp Kin cat and 1 comp range amp +SMG/SG/AR. Please dont talk to me like im crying because my 'crutch' is going to get broken. I havnt played once with a Cal scout in my life. I just said i wanted to. Stealth Storm
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 192	Posted - 2014.07.18 01:51:00 - [54] - Quote Most of you are just like kids. You cant deal with something and you cry. Cry and cry loudly so dady CCP can hear. Bullshit. Ewar caldari have max 300-380ehp. So stop with this bull about assault scouts, because if you know, gall reach 700armor and whos tanking? Caldari no matter how good, will die by few ScR shoots. Eqiup one and try... After scan will be taken, so whats cal for? Min scout for speed and hacks, amarr will be squad scaner with pleny armor, gal will tank armor or speed tank, while caldari will be only left for what? Tanking? Because i dont see a **** it can do... 2 enchancers to beat 1 damp. Caldari will lack in its role and shields will be nr 1 to eqiup for most people... -~-~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~-~-My CreoDron wont miss any of you
KING CHECKMATE Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 5328	Posted - 2014.07.18 02:46:00 - [55] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Most of you are just like kids. You cant deal with something and you cry. Cry and cry loudly so dady CCP can hear. Bullshit. Ewar caldari have max 300-380ehp. So stop with this bull about assault scouts, because if you know, gall reach 700armor and whos tanking? Caldari no matter how good, will die by few ScR shoots. Eqiup one and try... After scan will be taken, so whats cal for? Min scout for speed and hacks, amarr will be squad scaner with pleny armor, gal will tank armor or speed tank, while caldari will be only left for what? Tanking? Because i dont see a **** it can do... 2 enchancers to beat 1 damp. Caldari will lack in its role and shields will be nr 1 to eqiup for most people... Well. Yep. This but with less hate from my behalf. Caldari scout doesnt need any kind of nerf. In any case a Buff would be at hand so they can compete with Gal Scouts....E-war wise..... Stealth Storm


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