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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1627
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Posted - 2014.07.13 13:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Why exactly is the CAl scout getting a nerf now?
EVERYONE is using them?
I cant hide from them with a proper fit?
Is it OP?
NO.
Please elaborate why make useless something that is working as intended.
You finally have something here CCP.I consider the game is pretty close to balanced TBQH.
But you keep scr3wing things up nerfing things without reason while NOT giving the players a RESPEC to use their hard earned SP in something that works and that they want.
Give every player with a CAL scout a RESPEC on Cal Light Dropsuits.This is a POOR strategy to sell more boosters BTW.
-IF THE PROBLEM is Passive scanning, REMOVE IT. We are not getting any SP for it anyways.
Don't know if anyone has already covered this. But...
Specifics:
Cal scouts solo is not the problem. Cal scouts in a group is. They've become the new 360 scanner, but worse. Worse because, unlike active scanners, there's no warning, no cool down, and no way to avoid it outside of very specific fits (in effect, just the Gal scout).
Everyone in competitive play is either using the Cal scout as a hyper scanner in a 6 man squad, or the Gal at max dampening to counter it. The Amarr scout continues to lack a defined role and the Minmatar is being sidelined to the point that it is no longer appearing in competitive play. CCP has stats to back it up.
Removal of passive scanning has been requested, but is not technically feasible at this time. Check footnotes for hot-fix Charlie.
This change is a short term solution while the technical details of removing shared passive scans is worked out, along with implementing module efficacy bonuses to replace the current passive bonuses (also in the footnotes for Charlie).
With the expected changes, all scouts will be able to reasonably drop off tac net (2 damps + cloak, or 3 damps), and will all have viable range and precision (though Amarr and Cal will excel).
In effect it gives the Amarr scout a worthwhile bonus (and hopefully a worthwhile role), and makes the Minmatar scout viable in competitive play again, while normalising EWAR.
It also re-intoduces the Gal logi as the go to battlefield scanner, with all the pro's and con's of active scanning (better range, very high precision, but time limited, alerts the target, and exposes the user).
Feel free to ask if you want more info.
Knowledge is power
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1705
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Posted - 2014.07.15 04:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:pegasis prime wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Wait....I'm confused, you say players should get a respect because CCP is nerfing the call scouts passive scans but then you say passive scans can be removed cause there is no sp investment. My mind....what are you saying?
Also I speced cal scout because I wanted a cal scout. Shields fit my play style and I'm caldari through and through. Wanting a respec because they balanced a broken aspect of the game is just silly. He is saying players should get a respec because the bonuses are being removed or changed and thusly not what folks skilled into . He is also suggesting the removal of passive scanning because their is no war point gain involved. Wow someone with a brain. Nice. We wanted Passive Scans gone, CCP said that they can't do that. Removing the OP precision was the next step. Now all scouts can dampen enough to dodge scans. If all scouts are able to dodge Passive Scans then there is not point in going for a precision based suit.
This equals less diversity.
As does OP passive scans, where only the Cal ultra-scanner or Gal ultra-damp were viable.
Passives are still viable for 90% of suits on the field. Few scouts fit dual damps + cloak or triple damps.
Knowledge is power
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1705
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Posted - 2014.07.15 04:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Brokerib wrote:
. Few scouts fit dual damps + cloak or triple damps.
Of course, a Cal scout able to Scan a (1cx P.Damp) dampened Gal scout is obviously at a EHP Disadvantage and its easier to kill. 2Cx Prec + 1cx Prof DAmp. scout its all its needed.Enough damp to avoid most cal scouts, and enough EHP to deal with the few CAl scouts able to scan you. Plus enough precision to see them coming too. Passive scanning is cr*p. Should be removed.
Agreed. Gal is still the "best" scout and shared passive scanning needs to go. Neither is going to be fixed currently, shared passives because it's technically complex, and the Gal scout because its expected that changes to armor plate and adding in module efficacy instead of passive bonuses will change it. Which is also technically complex. Look to Delta or beyond.
This is a balance pass for now, not for all time.
Knowledge is power
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1709
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Posted - 2014.07.15 06:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:It saddens me that all anyone can focus on is scout v scout balance.
"Oh, if you break MY toy this OTHER scout will be FotM!"
No class is supposed to be FotM. Until you can no longer say any one suit type will be FotM if one of the other 3 is nerfed, that suit class is not balanced with the rest of the game.
Basically what I'm saying is.... until the scout CLASS is balanced with the rest of the game, only the scout suits as effective at their role or less so than the weakest suits of the other suit classes in the game have any right to complain because even if nerfed they are still better than many other suits at the other suit's role.
TL;DR: Don't care until assaults, the broken scouts, commandos and logi's are worth using properly in competitive play. A suit getting nerfed down and still being better than every assault suit in the game get's no sympathy.
You're not wrong, but until Assaults get a balance pass, inter-class balance is the best we can do for the moment. And the Amarr and Minmatar scouts have a legitimate concern, regardless of where the rest of the suits are.
Heavies are in a good place currently, scouts (excepting the effectiveness of shared EWAR) are in a good place. Assaults need to be buffed so they are viable, and then we can look at rebalancing everything from a leveled playing field. Hopefully the meduim changes for Charlie will take care of that, so we can go back and look at cross-class balance.
Knowledge is power
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1722
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Posted - 2014.07.15 14:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:
How do the proposed changes do anything but change the passive scanning scout for the squad into Amarr, rather than do anything else? Those playing that role will simply change to Amarr, no?
Max precision will be 18, as opposed to 14. They can change, but can be countered by an appropriately fitted scout of any race. Reduction in the effect of Range Amps has also been mentioned, which will limit the range they can get if they want to remain dampened. The best (precision and range) scans will belong to the Gal Logi (15dB), which will serve as a partial counter to scouts in general.
Doesn't help Mediums or Heavies significantly at this point but, as mentioned previously, this is a balance pass to normalise EWAR between scouts while additional changes are being prepared to more thoroughly change the system.
Knowledge is power
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