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Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 465	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:05:00 - [1] - Quote Frisbee remotes have to go... heres why there is simply no counter to them, scouts are already hard to detect with their profile damps and hard to shoot with their speed. on top of this they can jump extremely high and throw a remote a good 5 to 10 meters out. there is no way to counter this except by using the same tactic.... this is not balance. right now with all the other bonuses scouts get, armed with a few remotes to Frisbee can decimate the other team. 1 SCOUT! can take out 2 heavies being repped by 2 logis with no more than 2 remotes that are thrown and ready to detonate before you even know they are there, and this is happening in PC matches! a good team with good battle awareness who run well together can be wiped out by one cloaky scout flanking and dropping 2 remotes, and there is no defence against this. there is no other class in the game that can single handedly wipe out an entire squad in 4 seconds.... now I am a huge fan of remotes and I use them often, but a damped fast scout throwing them 10 meters while running through machine gun fire and not even losing shields is waaaaaaaay OP.... I don't want to see my beloved remotes nerfed into oblivion, but if scouts aren't gonna change, then throwing remotes has to go either that or do a serious overhaul on scouts....
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2305	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:11:00 - [2] - Quote The issue isn't with Scouts, it's with the remotes themselves. Longer delay between throwing and detonation will turn them from an offensive weapon into a defensive tactical tool. Remotes should be for setting traps and taking out enemies at choke points, not something you use as a means to kill someone in a head on encounter. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 535	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:21:00 - [3] - Quote Longer delay will make it even more impossible to place more than one on a tank before they run.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 465	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:26:00 - [4] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: The issue isn't with Scouts, it's with the remotes themselves. Longer delay between throwing and detonation will turn them from an offensive weapon into a defensive tactical tool. Remotes should be for setting traps and taking out enemies at choke points, not something you use as a means to kill someone in a head on encounter. but the only class that can throw them this far is the scout so it is a scout issue.... making the timers longer nerfs other styles of game play with them.... the only problem is how far scouts can throw them coupled with their other abilities. I propse a max 1 meter throwing distance no matter how high you jump... it should literally just drop to the ground like a rock after it hits a max 1 meter distance from the user... this still allows to put them on walls/ceilings and keeps them viable for tanks.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 954	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:27:00 - [5] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: Longer delay will make it even more impossible to place more than one on a tank before they run. How will it have any effect on this? The delay will be in detonation, not placement. Because, that's why.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2305	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:33:00 - [6] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: Longer delay will make it even more impossible to place more than one on a tank before they run. How will it have any effect on this? The delay will be in detonation, not placement. Indeed. And a longer detonation timer doesn't hinder different playstyles, unless you're a frisbee thrower that is. Remotes are still very useful is a ton of different situations. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 465	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:51:00 - [7] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: Longer delay will make it even more impossible to place more than one on a tank before they run. How will it have any effect on this? The delay will be in detonation, not placement. Indeed. And a longer detonation timer doesn't hinder different playstyles, unless you're a frisbee thrower that is. Remotes are still very useful is a ton of different situations. but in a situation where a logi heavy combo is defending an objective, whats still to stop the scout from frisbeeing the remotes running away unnoticed and then detonating them? with how far they can throw them they can still get in and out unseen and while the squad is busy fighting resistance a scout can still get in and cause just as much havoc with no counter to the tactic... but if you make the max distance say a meter then they would have to get much closer and risk being seen and killed.
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN 859	Posted - 2014.07.12 09:00:00 - [8] - Quote Try this: Open your eyes, listen with your ears. It has worked wonders for me. Edit: But really, it you see someone drop remotes rush them. "I never pull out" ~Ace Boone, 2014.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 465	Posted - 2014.07.12 09:33:00 - [9] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: Try this: Open your eyes, listen with your ears. It has worked wonders for me. Edit: But really, it you see someone drop remotes rush them. we do... I'm not talking about scrubby scouts doing this to scrubby teams in scrubby pubs... this crap is happening in PC with good teams who know how to play the game. we hear them, we see the remotes but we don't see the scout until its to late because they are tossing them 5 to 10 meters the scouts don't show up on scans and move too fast and detonate them before seasoned vets can react. it isn't any one of these things that is the problem its all of these things working together that create the issue. a scout flanks jumps toses and runs away and detonates all within 4 seconds... it is impossible to counter. a seasoned PC squad can be killed by one scout doing this.... that should not happen. again I will emphasize, there is no time to react to this, there is no way to get out of the way.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 6233	Posted - 2014.07.12 11:01:00 - [10] - Quote An increase to det would be welcome I would however like to say that the true counter to REs is indeed situational awareness and common sense. A scout needs a minimum of 3 seconds to set off an RE if you see a scout tossing the RE either back up, kill him so he can't det it, or rush him, the blast radius for the RE is pathetic. And yes there IS time to react you're over exaggerating, fast yes, hardly unavoidable ESPECIALLY when throwing multiple. If you can't pick up said scout then you and yours are at fault, there are counters to the scout, the callscout(soon to be Amarr) and the Gall logi, complaining about stealthy scouts whith no scanners is the same as complaining about tanks yet not using AV=you died because you were ill equipped. (or stupid.) As for the frisbee thing, it's not just a scout problem, it's everyone with equipment. Also: By meters do you mean actual meters or the patheticly tiny meters in game? Becaus I think I'd remember if I could toss an RE over 30 feet..... P.S= sorry if I seem pissy slept 5 hours in 3 days and it's getting to me. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1147	Posted - 2014.07.12 11:50:00 - [11] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Try this: Open your eyes, listen with your ears. It has worked wonders for me. Edit: But really, it you see someone drop remotes rush them. we do... I'm not talking about scrubby scouts doing this to scrubby teams in scrubby pubs... this crap is happening in PC with good teams who know how to play the game. we hear them, we see the remotes but we don't see the scout until its to late because they are tossing them 5 to 10 meters the scouts don't show up on scans and move too fast and detonate them before seasoned vets can react. it isn't any one of these things that is the problem its all of these things working together that create the issue. a scout flanks jumps toses and runs away and detonates all within 4 seconds... it is impossible to counter. a seasoned PC squad can be killed by one scout doing this.... that should not happen. again I will emphasize, there is no time to react to this, there is no way to get out of the way. That is why I'm advocating the increased delay when you can actually detonate REs. That is the first and foremost change needed to address the issue. The previous 1-2 sec increase was not enough. Now, the complaint about scout ninjaing and tossing REs into a hvy+logi defended room and running away to detonate 10-15secs later IS NOT an issue. It's all fair and square. In order for it not to be a problem, as I stated above, add more delay to the earliest moment of detonation. :-S
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1147	Posted - 2014.07.12 11:56:00 - [12] - Quote Fun fact: The situation where REs are really ninja-deployed is... When a team equipment spams in a room. In that case when people hear 'toss-thunk-deploy' sound in most cases they assume it's just that rep-slave setting more hives/whatever. I find beautiful balance in that. Karma at work. :-S
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 425	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:23:00 - [13] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Try this: Open your eyes, listen with your ears. It has worked wonders for me. Edit: But really, it you see someone drop remotes rush them. we do... I'm not talking about scrubby scouts doing this to scrubby teams in scrubby pubs... this crap is happening in PC with good teams who know how to play the game. we hear them, we see the remotes but we don't see the scout until its to late because they are tossing them 5 to 10 meters the scouts don't show up on scans and move too fast and detonate them before seasoned vets can react. it isn't any one of these things that is the problem its all of these things working together that create the issue. a scout flanks jumps toses and runs away and detonates all within 4 seconds... it is impossible to counter. a seasoned PC squad can be killed by one scout doing this.... that should not happen. again I will emphasize, there is no time to react to this, there is no way to get out of the way. It's balanced though because you can hear them coming. If you used teamwork it wouldn't be a problem. And that other thing you say about JLAVs. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2645	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:29:00 - [14] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: Longer delay will make it even more impossible to place more than one on a tank before they run. How will it have any effect on this? The delay will be in detonation, not placement. Indeed. And a longer detonation timer doesn't hinder different playstyles, unless you're a frisbee thrower that is. Remotes are still very useful is a ton of different situations. but in a situation where a logi heavy combo is defending an objective, whats still to stop the scout from frisbeeing the remotes running away unnoticed and then detonating them? with how far they can throw them they can still get in and out unseen and while the squad is busy fighting resistance a scout can still get in and cause just as much havoc with no counter to the tactic... but if you make the max distance say a meter then they would have to get much closer and risk being seen and killed. Nothing should be able to threaten these defenders, regardless of how bad these players may be. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 771	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:35:00 - [15] - Quote It's become the only good counter to these blobs of Logis and heavy frames running around. It's been a while since I've run pure Logi, but the game has changed a lot over the last few months with the number of Logis I see running around repping all match and using the WB as their primary weapon. The only thing I like about this new blog tactic is this.----> http://imgur.com/wH1bJ9j Please don't over state the ease involved here. I worked to flank, get into position, drop the REs and try to escape (almost did. Got Forged!?!) The frustrating thing is trying to look into this mass of heavies and Logis all repping each other, and trying to pick out a Logi who doesn't have a secondary beam on him to pick off. Then if you do manage to drop him before a beam gets on him, bleed him out before he gets revived. RE's are a hard counter to that. In the image above, that was 7 sets of eyes and 7 mercs who's precision I had to beat. 7 mercs who if any one of them had been not farming kills as a heavy or WP with a rep tool and instead amped his precision (I was in a BPO scout with 1 BPO damp, even a med frame with a precision enhancer would've picked me up) they would've seen me coming and downed me well before I got with-in 10 meters. So many people try to build the ultimate mix "if I put this with this, shooting this, repping that, on this, looking their, then WE WILL BE UNCOUNTERABLE!!111" then cry when someone counters it and yells on the forums "OP!" YouTube
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10852	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:40:00 - [16] - Quote OH FFS, their activation delay got nerfed hard and now only heavies can really be caught. Even then, if they pay attention they can see it coming and get away. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2468	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:50:00 - [17] - Quote low risk high reward is what you advocate right so this by your philosophy is legit so stop your bitching or advocate for high risk high reward. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 427	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:55:00 - [18] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: low risk high reward is what you advocate right so this by your philosophy is legit so stop your bitching or advocate for high risk high reward. This is that third thing I forgot about. So yeah, this too. Are JLAVs overpowered now? It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2062	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:55:00 - [19] - Quote "It's an innovative tactic." It's not "uncounterable." It's your fault for not spotting the scout sooner. You can kill the scout way before it kills you using remotes. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2468	Posted - 2014.07.12 14:08:00 - [20] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: low risk high reward is what you advocate right so this by your philosophy is legit so stop your bitching or advocate for high risk high reward. This is that third thing I forgot about. So yeah, this too. Are JLAVs overpowered now? I was using your flawed logic... and BTW if your whole squad dies to a single scout chucking RE's you should re evaluate your skill. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given

hfderrtgvcd Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 107	Posted - 2014.07.12 14:12:00 - [21] - Quote Leave remote explosives alone. They are the only viable counter to a group of heavies and logis other than spamming heavies and logis back at them.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 430	Posted - 2014.07.12 14:38:00 - [22] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: low risk high reward is what you advocate right so this by your philosophy is legit so stop your bitching or advocate for high risk high reward. This is that third thing I forgot about. So yeah, this too. Are JLAVs overpowered now? I was using your flawed logic... and BTW if your whole squad dies to a single scout chucking RE's you should re evaluate your skill. Patrick said my alts are obvious. Apparently not :) It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2469	Posted - 2014.07.12 14:43:00 - [23] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: low risk high reward is what you advocate right so this by your philosophy is legit so stop your bitching or advocate for high risk high reward. This is that third thing I forgot about. So yeah, this too. Are JLAVs overpowered now? I was using your flawed logic... and BTW if your whole squad dies to a single scout chucking RE's you should re evaluate your skill. Patrick said my alts are obvious. Apparently not :) lol I automatically thought it was Kelborn I didn't even look at the name. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1281	Posted - 2014.07.12 14:57:00 - [24] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Frisbee remotes have to go... heres why there is simply no counter to them, scouts are already hard to detect with their profile damps and hard to shoot with their speed. on top of this they can jump extremely high and throw a remote a good 5 to 10 meters out. there is no way to counter this except by using the same tactic.... this is not balance. right now with all the other bonuses scouts get, armed with a few remotes to Frisbee can decimate the other team. 1 SCOUT! can take out 2 heavies being repped by 2 logis with no more than 2 remotes that are thrown and ready to detonate before you even know they are there, and this is happening in PC matches! a good team with good battle awareness who run well together can be wiped out by one cloaky scout flanking and dropping 2 remotes, and there is no defence against this. there is no other class in the game that can single handedly wipe out an entire squad in 4 seconds.... now I am a huge fan of remotes and I use them often, but a damped fast scout throwing them 10 meters while running through machine gun fire and not even losing shields is waaaaaaaay OP.... I don't want to see my beloved remotes nerfed into oblivion, but if scouts aren't gonna change, then throwing remotes has to go either that or do a serious overhaul on scouts.... How are remotes in any way related to scouts, other than the fact that scouts are so weak that they need high alpha weapons like RE's to take out the OP heavy spam that every scrub is using? Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 471	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:16:00 - [25] - Quote This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout?
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1284	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:22:00 - [26] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? Scount OP nurf naow it kil my hevy soot Really the only reason the OP is complaining at all is because his heavy crutch can still be killed "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 474	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:31:00 - [27] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? Scount OP nurf naow it kil my hevy soot Really the only reason the OP is complaining at all is because his heavy crutch can still be killed Just saw your "how to go positive for dummies" fit on protofits, I swear it is too true. Oh and also, most armor heavies can survive a std RE blast to the face... with a good chunk of hp left...
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 468	Posted - 2014.07.12 16:40:00 - [28] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: An increase to det would be welcome I would however like to say that the true counter to REs is indeed situational awareness and common sense. A scout needs a minimum of 3 seconds to set off an RE if you see a scout tossing the RE either back up, kill him so he can't det it, or rush him, the blast radius for the RE is pathetic. And yes there IS time to react you're over exaggerating, fast yes, hardly unavoidable ESPECIALLY when throwing multiple. If you can't pick up said scout then you and yours are at fault, there are counters to the scout, the callscout(soon to be Amarr) and the Gall logi, complaining about stealthy scouts whith no scanners is the same as complaining about tanks yet not using AV=you died because you were ill equipped. (or stupid.) As for the frisbee thing, it's not just a scout problem, it's everyone with equipment. Also: By meters do you mean actual meters or the patheticly tiny meters in game? Becaus I think I'd remember if I could toss an RE over 30 feet..... P.S= sorry if I seem pissy slept 5 hours in 3 days and it's getting to me. I can only believe an RE scout would make a post like this.... I have offered 20 mil to a scout in a PC match showing exactly what I describe.... but then again I cant imagine any scout would want to compromise their "I win" button... no there is no time to react it is unavoidable when a brick tankes gal or super fast cal scout rushes in, jumps tosses the remote extremely far, doges or soaks up every round shout at him and then detonates the re.... I am not exaggerating... I've seen this happen... I have seen scouts attempt to do what I describe and fail horribly, yes... but a half decent scout can pull this off with success more than half the time, and there is nothing you can do to counter it. as I have tried to make clear... it isn't just tossing a remote it isn't just a scouts speed, or their ability to get close undetected, or their jumping it is all of these combined a fast undetected scout jumping and tossing a remote up to 10 meters and being able to dodge 4 people shooting right at him is OP the whole issue would be solved if remotes had a max 1 meter tossing distance
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 468	Posted - 2014.07.12 16:44:00 - [29] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? because only scouts with how high they can jump and how fast they move can toss them as far as they do. oh and no to the tanker crybabies in my thread jlavs are still not a problem tossing remotes 10 meters is the problem.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 468	Posted - 2014.07.12 16:45:00 - [30] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? Scount OP nurf naow it kil my hevy soot Really the only reason the OP is complaining at all is because his heavy crutch can still be killed Just saw your "how to go positive for dummies" fit on protofits, I swear it is too true. Oh and also, most armor heavies can survive a std RE blast to the face... with a good chunk of hp left... I'm a logi btw... 35 mil sp and I only just started skilling heavies tyvm....

Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2470	Posted - 2014.07.12 17:40:00 - [31] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? because only scouts with how high they can jump and how fast they move can toss them as far as they do. oh and no to the tanker crybabies in my thread jlavs are still not a problem tossing remotes 10 meters is the problem. Neither are RE spamming scouts. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 468	Posted - 2014.07.12 17:48:00 - [32] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? because only scouts with how high they can jump and how fast they move can toss them as far as they do. oh and no to the tanker crybabies in my thread jlavs are still not a problem tossing remotes 10 meters is the problem. Neither are RE spamming scouts. I don't care about the re spam... I like it... I do it.... its how far they can be thrown is the problem.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2065	Posted - 2014.07.12 18:13:00 - [33] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? because only scouts with how high they can jump and how fast they move can toss them as far as they do. oh and no to the tanker crybabies in my thread jlavs are still not a problem tossing remotes 10 meters is the problem. But tossing remotes 10 meters is an "innovative tactic"! It's your fault you didn't kill the scout soon enough! "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2894	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:12:00 - [34] - Quote 3 seconds gives even the slowest suits in the game the opportunity to move at least 9.39m.Even if the RE was placed directly on the feet of the Complex Plate Stacked Amarr Sentinel, at 9.39m you take no damage. The vast majority of medium frames and light frames should easily be able to get completely out of the blast radius within 3 seconds. Even if it took them a second to react (which likely means that you were snuck up on), they could get out of the blast with no problem. Even if it took the victim 2 while seconds to react, most suits would be able to get out of the blast radius, and the ones that couldn't would be far enough away and have enough HP to survive. Keep in mind that I'm assuming the RE is a PRO RE. Any suit could get completely out of the blast radius of the STD and ADV ones. My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 468	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:26:00 - [35] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? because only scouts with how high they can jump and how fast they move can toss them as far as they do. oh and no to the tanker crybabies in my thread jlavs are still not a problem tossing remotes 10 meters is the problem. But tossing remotes 10 meters is an "innovative tactic"! It's your fault you didn't kill the scout soon enough! I agree tossing remotes is an innovative tactic, one I use... I disagree with its lack of counter balance. just tossing them in itself are fine but coupled with a scout who is fast, invisible, and can dodge a sqd firing at him at close range while jumping is unbalanced. it's the most powerful weapon in the game, next to an orbital, it should also have some serious drawbacks... the Frisbee mechanic neutralizes one of the most important drawbacks, its range.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 6241	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:27:00 - [36] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: An increase to det would be welcome I would however like to say that the true counter to REs is indeed situational awareness and common sense. A scout needs a minimum of 3 seconds to set off an RE if you see a scout tossing the RE either back up, kill him so he can't det it, or rush him, the blast radius for the RE is pathetic. And yes there IS time to react you're over exaggerating, fast yes, hardly unavoidable ESPECIALLY when throwing multiple. If you can't pick up said scout then you and yours are at fault, there are counters to the scout, the callscout(soon to be Amarr) and the Gall logi, complaining about stealthy scouts whith no scanners is the same as complaining about tanks yet not using AV=you died because you were ill equipped. (or stupid.) As for the frisbee thing, it's not just a scout problem, it's everyone with equipment. Also: By meters do you mean actual meters or the patheticly tiny meters in game? Becaus I think I'd remember if I could toss an RE over 30 feet..... P.S= sorry if I seem pissy slept 5 hours in 3 days and it's getting to me. I can only believe an RE scout would make a post like this.... I have offered 20 mil to a scout in a PC match showing exactly what I describe.... but then again I cant imagine any scout would want to compromise their "I win" button... no there is no time to react it is unavoidable when a brick tankes gal or super fast cal scout rushes in, jumps tosses the remote extremely far, doges or soaks up every round shout at him and then detonates the re.... I am not exaggerating... I've seen this happen... I have seen scouts attempt to do what I describe and fail horribly, yes... but a half decent scout can pull this off with success more than half the time, and there is nothing you can do to counter it. as I have tried to make clear... it isn't just tossing a remote it isn't just a scouts speed, or their ability to get close undetected, or their jumping it is all of these combined a fast undetected scout jumping and tossing a remote up to 10 meters and being able to dodge 4 people shooting right at him is OP the whole issue would be solved if remotes had a max 1 meter tossing distance ....You come across both ignorant and unmoveable with this post. Yes I'm an RE scout, no that's not all I do, to make assumptions about my playstyle, my motives, and my character without knowing or even engaging in a conversation with myself makes me think one of two things= You are ignorant. or You're a troll. If you did speak to me instead of brushing me off you'd have learned a few things on my opinion on the subject, including my multiple threads on the subject of balancing REs. With your response I can only imagine you're either a troll or a fool, for multiple reasons. I don't know you but that's all you're presenting here with your response. Now=can we try this again? Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 468	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:29:00 - [37] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: 3 seconds gives even the slowest suits in the game the opportunity to move at least 9.39m.Even if the RE was placed directly on the feet of the Complex Plate Stacked Amarr Sentinel, at 9.39m you take no damage. The vast majority of medium frames and light frames should easily be able to get completely out of the blast radius within 3 seconds. Even if it took them a second to react (which likely means that you were snuck up on), they could get out of the blast with no problem. Even if it took the victim 2 while seconds to react, most suits would be able to get out of the blast radius, and the ones that couldn't would be far enough away and have enough HP to survive. Keep in mind that I'm assuming the RE is a PRO RE. Any suit could get completely out of the blast radius of the STD and ADV ones. once you take into account a human reaction speed, the chaos of the fight ( mind you I am specifically talking PC here, not pubs, theres a lot more chatter and competition in a pc) and the scouts natural abilities making them extremely fast and almost invisible, 3 seconds is not enough... but I don't want to nerf the timers... I just want to reduce the tossing distance...
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 436	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:34:00 - [38] - Quote I would like an increased arming time, or maybe that fluxes disarm the explosive without detonating; I don't like the way REs force a defensive position to be shifted around it until the RE can be safely disposed. Aside from that though I'm of the opinion that REs vs infantry are mostly fine; when I die to them these days it's cos I did something silly. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 468	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:36:00 - [39] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: An increase to det would be welcome I would however like to say that the true counter to REs is indeed situational awareness and common sense. A scout needs a minimum of 3 seconds to set off an RE if you see a scout tossing the RE either back up, kill him so he can't det it, or rush him, the blast radius for the RE is pathetic. And yes there IS time to react you're over exaggerating, fast yes, hardly unavoidable ESPECIALLY when throwing multiple. If you can't pick up said scout then you and yours are at fault, there are counters to the scout, the callscout(soon to be Amarr) and the Gall logi, complaining about stealthy scouts whith no scanners is the same as complaining about tanks yet not using AV=you died because you were ill equipped. (or stupid.) As for the frisbee thing, it's not just a scout problem, it's everyone with equipment. Also: By meters do you mean actual meters or the patheticly tiny meters in game? Becaus I think I'd remember if I could toss an RE over 30 feet..... P.S= sorry if I seem pissy slept 5 hours in 3 days and it's getting to me. I can only believe an RE scout would make a post like this.... I have offered 20 mil to a scout in a PC match showing exactly what I describe.... but then again I cant imagine any scout would want to compromise their "I win" button... no there is no time to react it is unavoidable when a brick tankes gal or super fast cal scout rushes in, jumps tosses the remote extremely far, doges or soaks up every round shout at him and then detonates the re.... I am not exaggerating... I've seen this happen... I have seen scouts attempt to do what I describe and fail horribly, yes... but a half decent scout can pull this off with success more than half the time, and there is nothing you can do to counter it. as I have tried to make clear... it isn't just tossing a remote it isn't just a scouts speed, or their ability to get close undetected, or their jumping it is all of these combined a fast undetected scout jumping and tossing a remote up to 10 meters and being able to dodge 4 people shooting right at him is OP the whole issue would be solved if remotes had a max 1 meter tossing distance ....You come across both ignorant and unmoveable with this post. Yes I'm an RE scout, no that's not all I do, to make assumptions about my playstyle, my motives, and my character without knowing or even engaging in a conversation with myself makes me think one of two things= You are ignorant. or You're a troll. If you did speak to me instead of brushing me off you'd have learned a few things on my opinion on the subject, including my multiple threads on the subject of balancing REs. With your response I can only imagine you're either a troll or a fool, for multiple reasons. I don't know you but that's all you're presenting here with your response. Now=can we try this again? im neither a troll or a fool... and I was right you are a scout... that aside, I did not mean to come off as brushing you off, I don't know of your threads. link them and I will read them... I only meant to convey the bias a scout inherently feels, as any of us do about our personal playstyles... I am in favor of mechanics that reward skill instead of items you can get that lesson the players contribution to achieve what only players of great skill should be able to pull off... I think a fast, low prfile high jumping scout, armed with one of the most powerful weapons in the game should have some serious drawbacks but tossing them as far as they can nullifies what I believe should be a remotes biggest drawback, its range.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 468	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:37:00 - [40] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: I would like an increased arming time, or maybe that fluxes disarm the explosive without detonating; I don't like the way REs force a defensive position to be shifted around it until the RE can be safely disposed. Aside from that though I'm of the opinion that REs vs infantry are mostly fine; when I die to them these days it's cos I did something silly. I agree they are mostly fine... the Frisbee mechanic isn't imo.

Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 6242	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:58:00 - [41] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: An increase to det would be welcome I would however like to say that the true counter to REs is indeed situational awareness and common sense. A scout needs a minimum of 3 seconds to set off an RE if you see a scout tossing the RE either back up, kill him so he can't det it, or rush him, the blast radius for the RE is pathetic. And yes there IS time to react you're over exaggerating, fast yes, hardly unavoidable ESPECIALLY when throwing multiple. If you can't pick up said scout then you and yours are at fault, there are counters to the scout, the callscout(soon to be Amarr) and the Gall logi, complaining about stealthy scouts whith no scanners is the same as complaining about tanks yet not using AV=you died because you were ill equipped. (or stupid.) As for the frisbee thing, it's not just a scout problem, it's everyone with equipment. Also: By meters do you mean actual meters or the patheticly tiny meters in game? Becaus I think I'd remember if I could toss an RE over 30 feet..... P.S= sorry if I seem pissy slept 5 hours in 3 days and it's getting to me. I can only believe an RE scout would make a post like this.... I have offered 20 mil to a scout in a PC match showing exactly what I describe.... but then again I cant imagine any scout would want to compromise their "I win" button... no there is no time to react it is unavoidable when a brick tankes gal or super fast cal scout rushes in, jumps tosses the remote extremely far, doges or soaks up every round shout at him and then detonates the re.... I am not exaggerating... I've seen this happen... I have seen scouts attempt to do what I describe and fail horribly, yes... but a half decent scout can pull this off with success more than half the time, and there is nothing you can do to counter it. as I have tried to make clear... it isn't just tossing a remote it isn't just a scouts speed, or their ability to get close undetected, or their jumping it is all of these combined a fast undetected scout jumping and tossing a remote up to 10 meters and being able to dodge 4 people shooting right at him is OP the whole issue would be solved if remotes had a max 1 meter tossing distance ....You come across both ignorant and unmoveable with this post. Yes I'm an RE scout, no that's not all I do, to make assumptions about my playstyle, my motives, and my character without knowing or even engaging in a conversation with myself makes me think one of two things= You are ignorant. or You're a troll. If you did speak to me instead of brushing me off you'd have learned a few things on my opinion on the subject, including my multiple threads on the subject of balancing REs. With your response I can only imagine you're either a troll or a fool, for multiple reasons. I don't know you but that's all you're presenting here with your response. Now=can we try this again? im neither a troll or a fool... and I was right you are a scout... that aside, I did not mean to come off as brushing you off, I don't know of your threads. link them and I will read them... I only meant to convey the bias a scout inherently feels, as any of us do about our personal playstyles... I am in favor of mechanics that reward skill instead of items you can get that lesson the players contribution to achieve what only players of great skill should be able to pull off... I think a fast, low prfile high jumping scout, armed with one of the most powerful weapons in the game should have some serious drawbacks but tossing them as far as they can nullifies what I believe should be a remotes biggest drawback, its range. Thank you. And yes the REs throwing range is a bit far, for an explosive ment to destroy buildings we toss them pretty damn hard, but mind you it's there for a reason it's to make them somewhat more viable for non scouts as well as not having to be directly in the line of fire of hostiles. (presumably) Now yes the REs are in need of a swat on the rear, however the scouts are and have been RE users due to thier speed, like the flux grenade and Mass driver they simply work together by playing on eachother's strength. Let me ask about another scout problem: do you think so many would complain about the shotgun if we didn't have the ability to use them with cloaks? Answer honestly. I'd say cut the toss range by a quarter personaly, more and you screw over non scouts. I'll link the threads should I look for them. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 468	Posted - 2014.07.12 23:20:00 - [42] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: An increase to det would be welcome I would however like to say that the true counter to REs is indeed situational awareness and common sense. A scout needs a minimum of 3 seconds to set off an RE if you see a scout tossing the RE either back up, kill him so he can't det it, or rush him, the blast radius for the RE is pathetic. And yes there IS time to react you're over exaggerating, fast yes, hardly unavoidable ESPECIALLY when throwing multiple. If you can't pick up said scout then you and yours are at fault, there are counters to the scout, the callscout(soon to be Amarr) and the Gall logi, complaining about stealthy scouts whith no scanners is the same as complaining about tanks yet not using AV=you died because you were ill equipped. (or stupid.) As for the frisbee thing, it's not just a scout problem, it's everyone with equipment. Also: By meters do you mean actual meters or the patheticly tiny meters in game? Becaus I think I'd remember if I could toss an RE over 30 feet..... P.S= sorry if I seem pissy slept 5 hours in 3 days and it's getting to me. I can only believe an RE scout would make a post like this.... I have offered 20 mil to a scout in a PC match showing exactly what I describe.... but then again I cant imagine any scout would want to compromise their "I win" button... no there is no time to react it is unavoidable when a brick tankes gal or super fast cal scout rushes in, jumps tosses the remote extremely far, doges or soaks up every round shout at him and then detonates the re.... I am not exaggerating... I've seen this happen... I have seen scouts attempt to do what I describe and fail horribly, yes... but a half decent scout can pull this off with success more than half the time, and there is nothing you can do to counter it. as I have tried to make clear... it isn't just tossing a remote it isn't just a scouts speed, or their ability to get close undetected, or their jumping it is all of these combined a fast undetected scout jumping and tossing a remote up to 10 meters and being able to dodge 4 people shooting right at him is OP the whole issue would be solved if remotes had a max 1 meter tossing distance ....You come across both ignorant and unmoveable with this post. Yes I'm an RE scout, no that's not all I do, to make assumptions about my playstyle, my motives, and my character without knowing or even engaging in a conversation with myself makes me think one of two things= You are ignorant. or You're a troll. If you did speak to me instead of brushing me off you'd have learned a few things on my opinion on the subject, including my multiple threads on the subject of balancing REs. With your response I can only imagine you're either a troll or a fool, for multiple reasons. I don't know you but that's all you're presenting here with your response. Now=can we try this again? im neither a troll or a fool... and I was right you are a scout... that aside, I did not mean to come off as brushing you off, I don't know of your threads. link them and I will read them... I only meant to convey the bias a scout inherently feels, as any of us do about our personal playstyles... I am in favor of mechanics that reward skill instead of items you can get that lesson the players contribution to achieve what only players of great skill should be able to pull off... I think a fast, low prfile high jumping scout, armed with one of the most powerful weapons in the game should have some serious drawbacks but tossing them as far as they can nullifies what I believe should be a remotes biggest drawback, its range. Thank you. And yes the REs throwing range is a bit far, for an explosive ment to destroy buildings we toss them pretty damn hard, but mind you it's there for a reason it's to make them somewhat more viable for non scouts as well as not having to be directly in the line of fire of hostiles. (presumably) Now yes the REs are in need of a swat on the rear, however the scouts are and have been RE users due to thier speed, like the flux grenade and Mass driver they simply work together by playing on eachother's strength. Let me ask about another scout problem: do you think so many would complain about the shotgun if we didn't have the ability to use them with cloaks? Answer honestly. I'd say cut the toss range by a quarter personaly, more and you screw over non scouts. I'll link the threads should I look for them. lol I have argued this very point to corp members in the past, shotguns are fine where they are and actually need some hit detection tweaking, scouts with cloaks make them seem OP in the right hands. but I feel the RE situation is different because I can do what a scout does in a logi fit (not as well unless I have a height advantage like the top of a staircase). i have seen scouts use the Frisbee mechanic to an exaggerated degree, and that's all I want tweaked. not the timer, not the dmg or area of effect (which I think is broken when you put remotes on walls at some angles but that's a different thread) just the tossing distance. I don't think it will effect non scouts to such a degree that it benefits scouts... scouts would still have an advantage with them, only a more balanced one. make remotes drop like a brick after a meter or 2 instead of 10. am I asking too much?
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2072	Posted - 2014.07.12 23:52:00 - [43] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Harpyja wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? because only scouts with how high they can jump and how fast they move can toss them as far as they do. oh and no to the tanker crybabies in my thread jlavs are still not a problem tossing remotes 10 meters is the problem. But tossing remotes 10 meters is an "innovative tactic"! It's your fault you didn't kill the scout soon enough! I agree tossing remotes is an innovative tactic, one I use... I disagree with its lack of counter balance. just tossing them in itself are fine but coupled with a scout who is fast, invisible, and can dodge a sqd firing at him at close range while jumping is unbalanced. it's the most powerful weapon in the game, next to an orbital, it should also have some serious drawbacks... the Frisbee mechanic neutralizes one of the most important drawbacks, its range. Sounds very much similar to a JLAV. I said in a previous post how infantry have double standards. You defend the use of JLAVs (because they kill vehicles unfairly, not infantry), while trying to remove frisbee remotes (because they kill infantry unfairly). In fact I see no difference between frisbee remotes and JLAVs. If someone can't kill a vehicle with conventional AV, they just use a JLAV to blow it up. Likewise, if someone can't kill some heavies with logi support holed up in a room, they use frisbee remotes to blow them all up. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1154	Posted - 2014.07.13 19:31:00 - [44] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: once you take into account a human reaction speed, the chaos of the fight ( mind you I am specifically talking PC here, not pubs, theres a lot more chatter and competition in a pc) and the scouts natural abilities making them extremely fast and almost invisible, 3 seconds is not enough... but I don't want to nerf the timers... I just want to reduce the tossing distance... Tossing distance hurts using REs versus tanks and LAVs - a lot. So that's why timer increase is what you should get. :-S
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1726	Posted - 2014.07.13 19:44:00 - [45] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: The issue isn't with Scouts, it's with the remotes themselves. Longer delay between throwing and detonation will turn them from an offensive weapon into a defensive tactical tool. Remotes should be for setting traps and taking out enemies at choke points, not something you use as a means to kill someone in a head on encounter. +1. I tried tossing remotes with my Alt and I felt like such a loser for such a S*** tactic. It works especially on stairs they glide all the way to the bottom and as a heavy on my main, nothing pisses me off more than some S* scout skipping remotes at you as you try and escape. I am a heavy I cant run fast and this puts me at a huge disadvantage. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1726	Posted - 2014.07.13 19:46:00 - [46] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Harpyja wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Louis Domi wrote: This thread went from RE's being too good, to there is something wrong about scouts? Logis can throw out RE's, why assualts can as well, even commandos, why focus on scout? because only scouts with how high they can jump and how fast they move can toss them as far as they do. oh and no to the tanker crybabies in my thread jlavs are still not a problem tossing remotes 10 meters is the problem. But tossing remotes 10 meters is an "innovative tactic"! It's your fault you didn't kill the scout soon enough! I agree tossing remotes is an innovative tactic, one I use... I disagree with its lack of counter balance. just tossing them in itself are fine but coupled with a scout who is fast, invisible, and can dodge a sqd firing at him at close range while jumping is unbalanced. it's the most powerful weapon in the game, next to an orbital, it should also have some serious drawbacks... the Frisbee mechanic neutralizes one of the most important drawbacks, its range. Sounds very much similar to a JLAV. I said in a previous post how infantry have double standards. You defend the use of JLAVs (because they kill vehicles unfairly, not infantry), while trying to remove frisbee remotes (because they kill infantry unfairly). In fact I see no difference between frisbee remotes and JLAVs. If someone can't kill a vehicle with conventional AV, they just use a JLAV to blow it up. Likewise, if someone can't kill some heavies with logi support holed up in a room, they use frisbee remotes to blow them all up. I only use JLAV as a last resort. When your team is not doing anything I do not see the logical point as to wasting a 200K AV suit to take out a militia tank. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 488	Posted - 2014.07.13 19:47:00 - [47] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: once you take into account a human reaction speed, the chaos of the fight ( mind you I am specifically talking PC here, not pubs, theres a lot more chatter and competition in a pc) and the scouts natural abilities making them extremely fast and almost invisible, 3 seconds is not enough... but I don't want to nerf the timers... I just want to reduce the tossing distance... Tossing distance hurts using REs versus tanks and LAVs - a lot. So that's why timer increase is what you should get. I cant count how many times I have thrown a remote at a vehicle and it doesn't stick... those mechanics are a bit off, in truth if you aren't very close they don't stick anyway increasing the timer hurts a lot as well for other playstyles, like corner traps. tossing distance really only hurts the Frisbee technique scouts are so fond of, reducing the distance thrown still makes them viable to put on vehicles while stopping the scouts from using their jumping ability to toss them ridiculously far.
wripple WarRavens Final Resolution. 192	Posted - 2014.07.14 11:08:00 - [48] - Quote Just give the dam things a charge up time, like being forced to arm the thing for 3 seconds without sprinting or jumping before you can deploy it. Or perhaps just make it so you can only deploy them while squatting. Or here's a simpler concept; who the hell here has good aim when throwing anything while jumping during an olympic sprint? Just remove the ability to toss them while in the air. It's stupid to say that a good remotely detonated explosive shouldn't kill everything within its blast radius, but the fact that a booby trap can be used as a hit and run weapon would be the equivalent of quickscoping a sniper rifle in this game. It just doesn't belong.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 517	Posted - 2014.07.14 11:23:00 - [49] - Quote wripple wrote: Just give the dam things a charge up time, like being forced to arm the thing for 3 seconds without sprinting or jumping before you can deploy it. Or perhaps just make it so you can only deploy them while squatting. Or here's a simpler concept; who the hell here has good aim when throwing anything while jumping during an olympic sprint? Just remove the ability to toss them while in the air. It's stupid to say that a good remotely detonated explosive shouldn't kill everything within its blast radius, but the fact that a booby trap can be used as a hit and run weapon would be the equivalent of quickscoping a sniper rifle in this game. It just doesn't belong. I think its just as simple to cap their tossing distance... in the end I don't care whats done as long as only the Frisbee technique is affected...
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1103	Posted - 2014.07.14 12:21:00 - [50] - Quote currently it takes 2-3 seconds depending on your reaction time to detonate them. it makes a beep sound when you throw them and that takes 1 second and it takes another second to activate. if the timer to activate was 2.5 seconds i wouldnt mind since that is enough time to escape the blast radius. unless your a heavy other wise you better have a **** ton of hp SP earned perday/week



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