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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15465	Posted - 2014.12.04 21:50:00 - [61] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: The slaves are not treated as bad as the federation would tell you. Because execution collars and mutating viruses that cause painful deaths if not constantly dosed up constitutes decent care, right? There is a reason billions upon billions of Minmatar wanted out, a reason the Federation intervened, and a reason the Jove helped them. That reason is that they are maltreated. To a Caldari wage-slave, perhaps it doesn't seem so bad. After all, most of you spend your lives toiling away for nothing, so poorly treated slaves dying by their millions isn't a concern. Numbers on a spreadsheet. That's all people are to the Caldari. How can you believe that programmes like the HEP are anything close to ethical? Minmatar slaves are butchered by the Amarrians for the slightest of reasons. The Amarrians even funded Sansha's monstrosities. And yet you still have the gall to say that they're not treated that badly. Treatment of slaves varies from Holder to Holder, and even then that depends on the Holder's political views, the political pressures on specific holders, and more so than not their dispositions. You assertions that slaves are butchered by Holder is incorrect and unjust as you cannot support such accusations nor are you privy to the personal life on any such Holder. As for the HEP? While not ethical it yielded certain benefits for the Empire which cannot be denied. Now to suggest the Empire knowingly supported the formation of the Nation is another foolish suggestion and equally as ridiculous as suggesting it was the fault of the Caldari because Kuvakei was born of their bloodlines, or the Federation was to blame for their cultural exchange that may well have shaped Kuvakei's utopian ideals. The thing to remember about the Nation was and remains that every empire see's them as a valid threat and an ethically abhorrent pirate group, and that each empire provided personnel and materials to the campaign in the Stain region to see his fleets and secret enclaves brought low. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1145	Posted - 2014.12.04 21:51:00 - [62] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: The slaves are not treated as bad as the federation would tell you. To a Caldari wage-slave, perhaps it doesn't seem so bad. After all, most of you spend your lives toiling away for nothing, so poorly treated slaves dying by their millions isn't a concern. Numbers on a spreadsheet. That's all people are to the Caldari. You can't say one thing about slaves without claiming the Caldari are slaves can you? At least we don't kill people because they are randomly selected. Not to mention your P.o.Ws I wouldn't be surprised if a gallente came out to say All Gallentes are gods and Caldari a worms! Oh wait half of that has already been said on more than 7 occasions. RPG!. The Ultimate Forum Passing-Time MetaGame!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19847	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:04:00 - [63] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: At least we don't kill people because they are randomly selected. That's because you select all of them. Quote: Not to mention your P.o.Ws Odd that you should mention POW treatment. All the ones you take end up in labour camps, typically until they die, given that mercy is not an attribute the Caldari possess in any great measure. Or any measure at all. Quote: I wouldn't be surprised if a gallente came out to say All Gallentes are gods and Caldari a worms! Oh wait half of that has already been said on more than 7 occasions. What are you claiming I said now? I do notice you don't even bother attempting to defend your suggestion that the Minmatar slaves weren't treated poorly. Do you recognise that you were wrong? The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1145	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:20:00 - [64] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: At least we don't kill people because they are randomly selected. That's because you select all of them. Quote: Not to mention your P.o.Ws Odd that you should mention POW treatment. All the ones you take end up in labour camps, typically until they die, given that mercy is not an attribute the Caldari possess in any great measure. Or any measure at all. Quote: I wouldn't be surprised if a gallente came out to say All Gallentes are gods and Caldari a worms! Oh wait half of that has already been said on more than 7 occasions. What are you claiming I said now? I do notice you don't even bother attempting to defend your suggestion that the Minmatar slaves weren't treated poorly. Do you recognise that you were wrong? 1, According to you the Caldari should not exist because we all kill each other and the last one just commits suicide. 2, I'd rather be in a labour camp than be beaten, raped, and killed by the Gallente. 3, I never said you. I say it's been said you you accuse me of claiming you said it? 4, I never said they were treated well, nor poorly, only that sir RAVEN WING wrote: The slaves are not treated as bad as the federation would tell you. 5. there is two reasons I didn't defend what I didn't say, they are that I didn't say it and your comment that the Caldari are all slaves. RPG!. The Ultimate Forum Passing-Time MetaGame!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15466	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:30:00 - [65] - Quote This looks suspisciously like the argument I had with Arkena in last year in YC 114........ I also realised that Raven is a cloned soldier based of Diana Kim..... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1145	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:35:00 - [66] - Quote True Adamance wrote: This looks suspisciously like the argument I had with Arkena in last year in YC 114........ I also realised that Raven is a cloned soldier based of Diana Kim..... ((You know I have called her crazy on several occasions?)) RPG!. The Ultimate Forum Passing-Time MetaGame!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19848	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:43:00 - [67] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: 1, According to you the Caldari should not exist because we all kill each other and the last one just commits suicide. Where has this come from? Quote: 2, I'd rather be in a labour camp than be beaten, raped, and killed by the Gallente. Would you rather be in a labour camp and have the same treatment? Quote: 3, I never said you. I say it's been said you you accuse me of claiming you said it? Many things have been said, most of them irrelevant. Most discussions with you end with you claiming that something was said that I did not say to refute one of my points. How does that work? Would you care to provide a quote on this, anyway? Anyone can say 'Oh, this was said and that was said', but whether it was actually said is another matter entirely. Regardless of whether it was said or not, I do not hold that opinion, and so it is pointless to attempt to use it against me. Quote: 4, I never said they were treated well, nor poorly, only that sir RAVEN WING wrote: The slaves are not treated as bad as the federation would tell you. 5. there is two reasons I didn't defend what I didn't say, they are that I didn't say it and your comment that the Caldari are all slaves. Do you deny that the slaves are treated in the manners I described? If so, then you are wrong. If not, then you were wrong earlier. Shall we play the semantics game? I never said the Caldari are all slaves. I simply commented that there are a great number of parallels between Caldari wage-slaves and Amarrian slaves. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15467	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:09:00 - [68] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Stuff I doubt either you have even met a Holder before. As such you comments are no more than hearsay and speculation borne of a general cultural bias against slavery and substantiated by low budget holo-films and second hand accounts of the coddled son of the son of the son of a Matari immigrant who claims to have been a slave. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19849	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:20:00 - [69] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Treatment of slaves varies from Holder to Holder, and even then that depends on the Holder's political views, the political pressures on specific holders, and more so than not their dispositions. You assertions that slaves are butchered by Holder is incorrect and unjust as you cannot support such accusations nor are you privy to the personal life on any such Holder. I can absolutely support such accusations as there are numerous well-documented cases of this happening. An entire planet's population was eradicated after one slave rebelled and killed his master. Freighterloads of slaves were killed rather than allowed emancipation after the 9th generation laws. Karsoth ordered the Starkmanir exterminated after survivors were found. Quote: As for the HEP? While not ethical it yielded certain benefits for the Empire which cannot be denied. I'm hardly denying the benefits of the HEP. I'm stating that it did not constitute good treatment of slaves. Quote: Now to suggest the Empire knowingly supported the formation of the Nation is another foolish suggestion and equally as ridiculous as suggesting it was the fault of the Caldari because Kuvakei was born of their bloodlines, or the Federation was to blame for their cultural exchange that may well have shaped Kuvakei's utopian ideals. The thing to remember about the Nation was and remains that every empire see's them as a valid threat and an ethically abhorrent pirate group, and that each empire provided personnel and materials to the campaign in the Stain region to see his fleets and secret enclaves brought low. I will concede that the Amarrians did not want Sansha's Nation to exist. However... It was the Amarrians who funded Kuvakei's experiments. Interestingly, since the advent of Insorum, some of the methodology used to control slaves in the Empire is very similar. Transcranial microcontrollers are based on the same principles as slave implants. Using those to control a slave and force them to work is exactly what the Sansha do. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19849	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:23:00 - [70] - Quote The vicious treatment of slaves and the lack of care from Amarrians killed two of the greatest scientists the cluster has ever seen, as well as crushed a bastion of co-operation between the Caldari and Gallente. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15469	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:40:00 - [71] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The vicious treatment of slaves and the lack of care from Amarrians killed two of the greatest scientists the cluster has ever seen, as well as crushed a bastion of co-operation between the Caldari and Gallente. You could equally morally justify that as two slaves having murdered the scientists, one of many reasons slavery continues to exist within the Empire, by consigning them to the fate of one respectable Hier that arguably before his encounter with the Speaker of Truth, the same speaker PIE escorted through Kor-Azor's region, and was redeemed. Within the Empire the empire there is no law against the exchange of slaves, only the slave taking itself, which was carried out by a neutral entity. Within the Empire that would have been the Kor Azor Heir's right. It it equally fair to lay blame on the State and Federation for pulling their funding and security forces from the project leaving them susceptible to the depredations of pirate organisations....an act that reflects poorly on your own people and not mine. Moreover the Crielere Project itself was rife with corruption and intrigue if you believe the unofficial reports regarding the origins of the Morphite technologies....not something I would hold up as a shining beacon of State-Federation relations. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19852	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:46:00 - [72] - Quote Considering the Caldari openly stole the blueprints from the project, creating the initial instability, blame cannot be laid entirely equally. Regardless of the corporate backstabbing that ultimately sank the Crielere ship, I think we can all agree it was a tragedy. Touvolle and Umailen did not deserve that end. Nobody did. Why were slaves so poorly treated as to die in so short a time? That's hardly done with the goal of religious enlightenment. That's just cruelty. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15470	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:57:00 - [73] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Considering the Caldari openly stole the blueprints from the project, creating the initial instability, blame cannot be laid entirely equally. Regardless of the corporate backstabbing that ultimately sank the Crielere ship, I think we can all agree it was a tragedy. Touvolle and Umailen did not deserve that end. Nobody did. Why were slaves so poorly treated as to die in so short a time? That's hardly done with the goal of religious enlightenment. That's just cruelty. As I said that depends on the disposition of the Holder. The Kor-Azor Heir was, and I put this most respectfully, troubled in his youth and was subject to formal investigation and severely punished for his crimes. This is one example of a what happens when a Holder is not treating his sacred duty with the diligence it deserves. Other examples of Holder's who treat their slaves fairly and with the care they deserve exist, even if more so on a pedestrian scale. I for one do not treat my slaves unfairly, to suggest otherwise would cause me to name you a liar, nor would I treat those belonging to others in a disrespectful manner. Dr Adad's Wild Time, an example of a popular children's holo-show in the Empire, actively teaches the younger generations of Amarr to respect and treat their slaves fairly. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1147	Posted - 2014.12.05 01:04:00 - [74] - Quote I was thinking why we were arguing Well I want peaceful coexistence and I am opposed. I started to boil thing down to see who was right and eventually said. Viktor Revon wrote: In the end there will be no wrong and no right, no ruler and no subject. No master nor slave. You are who you lived as and I am who I lived as. At the end of the day all that matters is survival and time, so why argue about who is the evil and who is the good? Those are both opinions, and thus they are useless. RPG!. The Ultimate Forum Passing-Time MetaGame!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15479	Posted - 2014.12.05 01:22:00 - [75] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: I was thinking why we were arguing Well I want peaceful coexistence and I am opposed. I started to boil thing down to see who was right and eventually said. Viktor Revon wrote: In the end there will be no wrong and no right, no ruler and no subject. No master nor slave. You are who you lived as and I am who I lived as. At the end of the day all that matters is survival and time, so why argue about who is the evil and who is the good? Those are both opinions, and thus they are useless. But it does matter. One should strive to live righteously before the eyes of God. In the end we all end up in the same place. Dead. How you get there determines what rewards He gifts unto you after death. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1147	Posted - 2014.12.05 01:26:00 - [76] - Quote True Adamance wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: I was thinking why we were arguing Well I want peaceful coexistence and I am opposed. I started to boil thing down to see who was right and eventually said. Viktor Revon wrote: In the end there will be no wrong and no right, no ruler and no subject. No master nor slave. You are who you lived as and I am who I lived as. At the end of the day all that matters is survival and time, so why argue about who is the evil and who is the good? Those are both opinions, and thus they are useless. But it does matter. One should strive to live righteously before the eyes of God. In the end we all end up in the same place. Dead. How you get there determines what rewards He gifts unto you after death. In the end does it even matter? We may burn or freeze, but there is nothing about 'being a repeating video" and therefore we may thrive there too. It only matters the way you look at it and most of the time, it never matters. RPG!. The Ultimate Forum Passing-Time MetaGame!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15485	Posted - 2014.12.05 03:02:00 - [77] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: True Adamance wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: I was thinking why we were arguing Well I want peaceful coexistence and I am opposed. I started to boil thing down to see who was right and eventually said. Viktor Revon wrote: In the end there will be no wrong and no right, no ruler and no subject. No master nor slave. You are who you lived as and I am who I lived as. At the end of the day all that matters is survival and time, so why argue about who is the evil and who is the good? Those are both opinions, and thus they are useless. But it does matter. One should strive to live righteously before the eyes of God. In the end we all end up in the same place. Dead. How you get there determines what rewards He gifts unto you after death. In the end does it even matter? We may burn or freeze, but there is nothing about 'being a repeating video" and therefore we may thrive there too. It only matters the way you look at it and most of the time, it never matters. It always matters. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Dimitri Rascolovitch Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 279	Posted - 2014.12.05 07:52:00 - [78] - Quote True Adamance wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: True Adamance wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: I was thinking why we were arguing Well I want peaceful coexistence and I am opposed. I started to boil thing down to see who was right and eventually said. Viktor Revon wrote: In the end there will be no wrong and no right, no ruler and no subject. No master nor slave. You are who you lived as and I am who I lived as. At the end of the day all that matters is survival and time, so why argue about who is the evil and who is the good? Those are both opinions, and thus they are useless. But it does matter. One should strive to live righteously before the eyes of God. In the end we all end up in the same place. Dead. How you get there determines what rewards He gifts unto you after death. In the end does it even matter? We may burn or freeze, but there is nothing about 'being a repeating video" and therefore we may thrive there too. It only matters the way you look at it and most of the time, it never matters. It always matters. Always Bring back the Marauders, Enforcers, Logistic, and Scout LAVS and Dropships
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15505	Posted - 2014.12.05 09:54:00 - [79] - Quote Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote: Always I'll watch the night turn light blue... But it's not the same without you. Because it take two to whisper quietly... The silence isn't so bad till I look at my hands and feel sad.... Cuz the spaces between my fingers are right where yours fit perfectly. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1149	Posted - 2014.12.05 10:22:00 - [80] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote: Always I'll watch the night turn light blue... But it's not the same without you. Because it take two to whisper quietly... The silence isn't so bad till I look at my hands and feel sad.... Cuz the spaces between my fingers are right where yours fit perfectly. ((This doesn't seem to much of what a templar would say, more like one of Raven's thoughts)) RPG!. The Ultimate Forum Passing-Time MetaGame!

Hawk-eye Occultus ARKOMBlNE 410	Posted - 2014.12.05 19:10:00 - [81] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote: Always I'll watch the night turn light blue... But it's not the same without you. Because it take two to whisper quietly... The silence isn't so bad till I look at my hands and feel sad.... Cuz the spaces between my fingers are right where yours fit perfectly. Ah, learning all those Gallente classic hits I see. I am ready to serve... . Again...
Dimitri Rascolovitch Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 279	Posted - 2014.12.05 22:26:00 - [82] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote: Always I'll watch the night turn light blue... But it's not the same without you. Because it take two to whisper quietly... The silence isn't so bad till I look at my hands and feel sad.... Cuz the spaces between my fingers are right where yours fit perfectly. I think lack of amarr vehicles has broken adamance mentally Bring back the Marauders, Enforcers, Logistic, and Scout LAVS and Dropships
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19878	Posted - 2014.12.05 22:51:00 - [83] - Quote Adamance was already broken mentally. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
sir RAVEN WING Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 1428	Posted - 2014.12.05 22:53:00 - [84] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Adamance was already broken mentally. This I can confirm. *[Level 1 Forums] [Level 100 Caldari Loyalist]* *Master of the Calssault*
Klaus Heissleir Stonetread 9	Posted - 2014.12.11 03:44:00 - [85] - Quote Brother! All the Gallente will die by my rail rifle.


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