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Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17548	Posted - 2014.09.05 21:36:00 - [1] - Quote True Adamance wrote: War is but a means to and end, one that sees the unity of our two peoples by something far more eternal and secure than kinship. The last thing I wish for is more conflict. Peace and stability is what we must strive for, and given the history of the Minmatar peoples it seems conflict is the only thing that the Elder's respect. Impossible. There will always be conflict. It's too deeply ingrained into humanity to bring an end to conflict. Flying to new horizons.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 17592	Posted - 2014.09.08 20:37:00 - [2] - Quote Soulja Ghostface wrote: Put some damn state pythons in your loyalty store and I will bring with me the best pilots this cluster and beyond. And I might come out of retirement to watch the fireflies. Flying to new horizons.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19842	Posted - 2014.12.04 21:20:00 - [3] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: The slaves are not treated as bad as the federation would tell you. Because execution collars and mutating viruses that cause painful deaths if not constantly dosed up constitutes decent care, right? There is a reason billions upon billions of Minmatar wanted out, a reason the Federation intervened, and a reason the Jove helped them. That reason is that they are maltreated. To a Caldari wage-slave, perhaps it doesn't seem so bad. After all, most of you spend your lives toiling away for nothing, so poorly treated slaves dying by their millions isn't a concern. Numbers on a spreadsheet. That's all people are to the Caldari. How can you believe that programmes like the HEP are anything close to ethical? Minmatar slaves are butchered by the Amarrians for the slightest of reasons. The Amarrians even funded Sansha's monstrosities. And yet you still have the gall to say that they're not treated that badly. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19847	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:04:00 - [4] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: At least we don't kill people because they are randomly selected. That's because you select all of them. Quote: Not to mention your P.o.Ws Odd that you should mention POW treatment. All the ones you take end up in labour camps, typically until they die, given that mercy is not an attribute the Caldari possess in any great measure. Or any measure at all. Quote: I wouldn't be surprised if a gallente came out to say All Gallentes are gods and Caldari a worms! Oh wait half of that has already been said on more than 7 occasions. What are you claiming I said now? I do notice you don't even bother attempting to defend your suggestion that the Minmatar slaves weren't treated poorly. Do you recognise that you were wrong? The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19848	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:43:00 - [5] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: 1, According to you the Caldari should not exist because we all kill each other and the last one just commits suicide. Where has this come from? Quote: 2, I'd rather be in a labour camp than be beaten, raped, and killed by the Gallente. Would you rather be in a labour camp and have the same treatment? Quote: 3, I never said you. I say it's been said you you accuse me of claiming you said it? Many things have been said, most of them irrelevant. Most discussions with you end with you claiming that something was said that I did not say to refute one of my points. How does that work? Would you care to provide a quote on this, anyway? Anyone can say 'Oh, this was said and that was said', but whether it was actually said is another matter entirely. Regardless of whether it was said or not, I do not hold that opinion, and so it is pointless to attempt to use it against me. Quote: 4, I never said they were treated well, nor poorly, only that sir RAVEN WING wrote: The slaves are not treated as bad as the federation would tell you. 5. there is two reasons I didn't defend what I didn't say, they are that I didn't say it and your comment that the Caldari are all slaves. Do you deny that the slaves are treated in the manners I described? If so, then you are wrong. If not, then you were wrong earlier. Shall we play the semantics game? I never said the Caldari are all slaves. I simply commented that there are a great number of parallels between Caldari wage-slaves and Amarrian slaves. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19849	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:20:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Treatment of slaves varies from Holder to Holder, and even then that depends on the Holder's political views, the political pressures on specific holders, and more so than not their dispositions. You assertions that slaves are butchered by Holder is incorrect and unjust as you cannot support such accusations nor are you privy to the personal life on any such Holder. I can absolutely support such accusations as there are numerous well-documented cases of this happening. An entire planet's population was eradicated after one slave rebelled and killed his master. Freighterloads of slaves were killed rather than allowed emancipation after the 9th generation laws. Karsoth ordered the Starkmanir exterminated after survivors were found. Quote: As for the HEP? While not ethical it yielded certain benefits for the Empire which cannot be denied. I'm hardly denying the benefits of the HEP. I'm stating that it did not constitute good treatment of slaves. Quote: Now to suggest the Empire knowingly supported the formation of the Nation is another foolish suggestion and equally as ridiculous as suggesting it was the fault of the Caldari because Kuvakei was born of their bloodlines, or the Federation was to blame for their cultural exchange that may well have shaped Kuvakei's utopian ideals. The thing to remember about the Nation was and remains that every empire see's them as a valid threat and an ethically abhorrent pirate group, and that each empire provided personnel and materials to the campaign in the Stain region to see his fleets and secret enclaves brought low. I will concede that the Amarrians did not want Sansha's Nation to exist. However... It was the Amarrians who funded Kuvakei's experiments. Interestingly, since the advent of Insorum, some of the methodology used to control slaves in the Empire is very similar. Transcranial microcontrollers are based on the same principles as slave implants. Using those to control a slave and force them to work is exactly what the Sansha do. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19849	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:23:00 - [7] - Quote The vicious treatment of slaves and the lack of care from Amarrians killed two of the greatest scientists the cluster has ever seen, as well as crushed a bastion of co-operation between the Caldari and Gallente. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19852	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:46:00 - [8] - Quote Considering the Caldari openly stole the blueprints from the project, creating the initial instability, blame cannot be laid entirely equally. Regardless of the corporate backstabbing that ultimately sank the Crielere ship, I think we can all agree it was a tragedy. Touvolle and Umailen did not deserve that end. Nobody did. Why were slaves so poorly treated as to die in so short a time? That's hardly done with the goal of religious enlightenment. That's just cruelty. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19878	Posted - 2014.12.05 22:51:00 - [9] - Quote Adamance was already broken mentally. The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.

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