DUST Search - Sentinels with light weapons. *laughs*

Thokk Nightshade wrote:

Heimdallr69 wrote:

Thokk Nightshade wrote:

Sarus Rambo wrote:

The biggest thing that needs to happen to all heavy suits is to make their turning speed extremely slow. That is the real big problem with heavy suits in general. Max out the turning speed at something like 1/3 the turning speed of a medium frame.

Heavies should be monsters. They way they should work is if you get in front of them, you die, but if you are to the side and behind them, they are vulnerable.

No.
No.
No.

Sentinels are already vulnerable from behind. A (good) shotgun scout can get 3 shots off into the back of a Sentinel before he has a chance to return fire. A bad shotgun scout can usually get at least 2 off and then dance/jump 8 feet in the air long enough to shoot the heavy one more time and kill him. Why does everybody want to make Sentinels absolutely defenseless unless the attacker is stupid enough to try and take heavy head on?

No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
Oh, and just in case that isn't clear enough, HELL no.

Nice argument. Oh a shotgun can kill me in 3 shots so we're balanced. Hmm you missed the part where not everyone runs scouts or shotguns.

This is a specific response to the turn radius argument. What other reason is there for slowing down the turn radius other than making it easy for scouts to sneak and shot them without fear of reprisal?

I do happen to know there are plenty of people who don't run Shotgun scout. Anyone else who is not running SG or Nova knife just needs to stay outside optimal HMG range and take a Sentinel down slowly. I still don't see how that justifies making Sentinels even easier targets while at the same time making it harder for them to defend themselves.

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Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 417	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:34:00 - [31] - Quote Sarus Rambo wrote: The biggest thing that needs to happen to all heavy suits is to make their turning speed extremely slow. That is the real big problem with heavy suits in general. Max out the turning speed at something like 1/3 the turning speed of a medium frame. Heavies should be monsters. They way they should work is if you get in front of them, you die, but if you are to the side and behind them, they are vulnerable. No. No. No. Sentinels are already vulnerable from behind. A (good) shotgun scout can get 3 shots off into the back of a Sentinel before he has a chance to return fire. A bad shotgun scout can usually get at least 2 off and then dance/jump 8 feet in the air long enough to shoot the heavy one more time and kill him. Why does everybody want to make Sentinels absolutely defenseless unless the attacker is stupid enough to try and take heavy head on? No. No. No. No. No. No. Oh, and just in case that isn't clear enough, HELL no. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2670	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:38:00 - [32] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Sarus Rambo wrote: The biggest thing that needs to happen to all heavy suits is to make their turning speed extremely slow. That is the real big problem with heavy suits in general. Max out the turning speed at something like 1/3 the turning speed of a medium frame. Heavies should be monsters. They way they should work is if you get in front of them, you die, but if you are to the side and behind them, they are vulnerable. No. No. No. Sentinels are already vulnerable from behind. A (good) shotgun scout can get 3 shots off into the back of a Sentinel before he has a chance to return fire. A bad shotgun scout can usually get at least 2 off and then dance/jump 8 feet in the air long enough to shoot the heavy one more time and kill him. Why does everybody want to make Sentinels absolutely defenseless unless the attacker is stupid enough to try and take heavy head on? No. No. No. No. No. No. Oh, and just in case that isn't clear enough, HELL no. Nice argument. Oh a shotgun can kill me in 3 shots so we're balanced. Hmm you missed the part where not everyone runs scouts or shotguns. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2196	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:42:00 - [33] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Hmmm Should I fit my HMG, my HMG, the HMG, or maybe the HMG today? I'm trying to break out of the mold so I think I might go with an HMG, but I guess if I wanted to change things up I could try the HMG or maybe even the HMG if I'm feeling frisky. I could just be a rebel though and fit the HMG Decisions decisions. What this game needs is a light HMG. And a JRAV to go between the LAV and the HAV. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Seriously. Think about it.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 417	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:45:00 - [34] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: Sarus Rambo wrote: The biggest thing that needs to happen to all heavy suits is to make their turning speed extremely slow. That is the real big problem with heavy suits in general. Max out the turning speed at something like 1/3 the turning speed of a medium frame. Heavies should be monsters. They way they should work is if you get in front of them, you die, but if you are to the side and behind them, they are vulnerable. No. No. No. Sentinels are already vulnerable from behind. A (good) shotgun scout can get 3 shots off into the back of a Sentinel before he has a chance to return fire. A bad shotgun scout can usually get at least 2 off and then dance/jump 8 feet in the air long enough to shoot the heavy one more time and kill him. Why does everybody want to make Sentinels absolutely defenseless unless the attacker is stupid enough to try and take heavy head on? No. No. No. No. No. No. Oh, and just in case that isn't clear enough, HELL no. Nice argument. Oh a shotgun can kill me in 3 shots so we're balanced. Hmm you missed the part where not everyone runs scouts or shotguns. This is a specific response to the turn radius argument. What other reason is there for slowing down the turn radius other than making it easy for scouts to sneak and shot them without fear of reprisal? I do happen to know there are plenty of people who don't run Shotgun scout. Anyone else who is not running SG or Nova knife just needs to stay outside optimal HMG range and take a Sentinel down slowly. I still don't see how that justifies making Sentinels even easier targets while at the same time making it harder for them to defend themselves. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC 479	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:47:00 - [35] - Quote Vapor Forseti wrote: Should Sentinels be restricted to only heavy weapons in their heavy weapons slot? Commandos are the only heavy suits that should be able to wield light weapons IMHO. It's their specialty. Discuss. Commandos and Mexicans, its THEIR thing, like a spoiler on a POS 97 Honda Accord. We dont know why they do it. Im against slavery says the liberal, as he picks up his Iphone 5, made in China.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2671	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:49:00 - [36] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: Sarus Rambo wrote: The biggest thing that needs to happen to all heavy suits is to make their turning speed extremely slow. That is the real big problem with heavy suits in general. Max out the turning speed at something like 1/3 the turning speed of a medium frame. Heavies should be monsters. They way they should work is if you get in front of them, you die, but if you are to the side and behind them, they are vulnerable. No. No. No. Sentinels are already vulnerable from behind. A (good) shotgun scout can get 3 shots off into the back of a Sentinel before he has a chance to return fire. A bad shotgun scout can usually get at least 2 off and then dance/jump 8 feet in the air long enough to shoot the heavy one more time and kill him. Why does everybody want to make Sentinels absolutely defenseless unless the attacker is stupid enough to try and take heavy head on? No. No. No. No. No. No. Oh, and just in case that isn't clear enough, HELL no. Nice argument. Oh a shotgun can kill me in 3 shots so we're balanced. Hmm you missed the part where not everyone runs scouts or shotguns. This is a specific response to the turn radius argument. What other reason is there for slowing down the turn radius other than making it easy for scouts to sneak and shot them without fear of reprisal? I do happen to know there are plenty of people who don't run Shotgun scout. Anyone else who is not running SG or Nova knife just needs to stay outside optimal HMG range and take a Sentinel down slowly. I still don't see how that justifies making Sentinels even easier targets while at the same time making it harder for them to defend themselves. Idc about that honestly. But the hmg needs a range adjustment but right now its range is a bit much which I think the real problem is. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC 479	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:49:00 - [37] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: Sarus Rambo wrote: The biggest thing that needs to happen to all heavy suits is to make their turning speed extremely slow. That is the real big problem with heavy suits in general. Max out the turning speed at something like 1/3 the turning speed of a medium frame. Heavies should be monsters. They way they should work is if you get in front of them, you die, but if you are to the side and behind them, they are vulnerable. No. No. No. Sentinels are already vulnerable from behind. A (good) shotgun scout can get 3 shots off into the back of a Sentinel before he has a chance to return fire. A bad shotgun scout can usually get at least 2 off and then dance/jump 8 feet in the air long enough to shoot the heavy one more time and kill him. Why does everybody want to make Sentinels absolutely defenseless unless the attacker is stupid enough to try and take heavy head on? No. No. No. No. No. No. Oh, and just in case that isn't clear enough, HELL no. Nice argument. Oh a shotgun can kill me in 3 shots so we're balanced. Hmm you missed the part where not everyone runs scouts or shotguns. If you are not running one then the fatties turn speed shouldn't matter. Im against slavery says the liberal, as he picks up his Iphone 5, made in China.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1093	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:53:00 - [38] - Quote Vapor Forseti wrote: Should Sentinels be restricted to only heavy weapons in their heavy weapons slot? Commandos are the only heavy suits that should be able to wield light weapons IMHO. It's their specialty. Discuss. Artificial restriction. Not needed. :-S
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC 479	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:54:00 - [39] - Quote Sarus Rambo wrote: The biggest thing that needs to happen to all heavy suits is to make their turning speed extremely slow. That is the real big problem with heavy suits in general. Max out the turning speed at something like 1/3 the turning speed of a medium frame. Heavies should be monsters. They way they should work is if you get in front of them, you die, but if you are to the side and behind them, they are vulnerable. You are new here, so let me help you out. No. This was tried over a year ago and it made sentinels sucks, back when scouts did to. All you would have to do to beat a heavy is get in close on cqc then turn the same way he turns and he could never hit you. This is an old idea, a bad idea, and a dumb idea. Im against slavery says the liberal, as he picks up his Iphone 5, made in China.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2671	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:59:00 - [40] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: Sarus Rambo wrote: The biggest thing that needs to happen to all heavy suits is to make their turning speed extremely slow. That is the real big problem with heavy suits in general. Max out the turning speed at something like 1/3 the turning speed of a medium frame. Heavies should be monsters. They way they should work is if you get in front of them, you die, but if you are to the side and behind them, they are vulnerable. No. No. No. Sentinels are already vulnerable from behind. A (good) shotgun scout can get 3 shots off into the back of a Sentinel before he has a chance to return fire. A bad shotgun scout can usually get at least 2 off and then dance/jump 8 feet in the air long enough to shoot the heavy one more time and kill him. Why does everybody want to make Sentinels absolutely defenseless unless the attacker is stupid enough to try and take heavy head on? No. No. No. No. No. No. Oh, and just in case that isn't clear enough, HELL no. Nice argument. Oh a shotgun can kill me in 3 shots so we're balanced. Hmm you missed the part where not everyone runs scouts or shotguns. If you are not running one then the fatties turn speed shouldn't matter. I didn't say it did. I was just pointing out a flaw in the argument. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro

Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 418	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:05:00 - [41] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: . Idc about that honestly. But the hmg needs a range adjustment but right now its range is a bit much which I think the real problem is.[/quote] Range adjustment is a better solution than turn radius. They tried the turn radius nerf a while ago and it was an absolute disaster. However, I want to be extremely careful about even cutting range down. Right now 90% of the maps are open terrain. There are few places a Sentinel w/ HMG can go that he won't get picked off by someone using a CR, RR, AR and he is unable to return fire on. Anyone outside much more than 25-30 meters will be fairly safe (with a standard HMG, not Assault). Anyone outside 40 meters can just sit and laugh as he tears the Sentinel to shreds with any of the aforementioned weapons, especially the Rail Rifle. It is not uncommon for me to get chopped at 85-90 Meters. There is no way in the world even an Assault HMG is going to do any damage at that range. A CR can reach out to 50 without any major problems. The HMG has the shortest range of any weapon in the game outside Shotgun/Nova Knife. I would say 90% of my kills with an HMG are withing 15 meters. Not disagreeing with you completely, because I can see a case being made for the argument. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2671	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:08:00 - [42] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: . Idc about that honestly. But the hmg needs a range adjustment but right now its range is a bit much which I think the real problem is. Range adjustment is a better solution than turn radius. They tried the turn radius nerf a while ago and it was an absolute disaster. However, I want to be extremely careful about even cutting range down. Right now 90% of the maps are open terrain. There are few places a Sentinel w/ HMG can go that he won't get picked off by someone using a CR, RR, AR and he is unable to return fire on. Anyone outside much more than 25-30 meters will be fairly safe (with a standard HMG, not Assault). Anyone outside 40 meters can just sit and laugh as he tears the Sentinel to shreds with any of the aforementioned weapons, especially the Rail Rifle. It is not uncommon for me to get chopped at 85-90 Meters. There is no way in the world even an Assault HMG is going to do any damage at that range. A CR can reach out to 50 without any major problems. The HMG has the shortest range of any weapon in the game outside Shotgun/Nova Knife. I would say 90% of my kills with an HMG are withing 15 meters. Not disagreeing with you completely, because I can see a case being made for the argument. [/quote] I agree with this. But It doesn't need to be decreased by much, I don't want it broken/useless. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 116	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:09:00 - [43] - Quote lol fail quoting
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 130	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:18:00 - [44] - Quote Bpo sentinel + bpo exile is worry free tear harvester
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 418	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:47:00 - [45] - Quote Mikey Ducati wrote: lol fail quoting Epic Fail on my part. I'll take it. I jacked it completely up. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 120	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:50:00 - [46] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Mikey Ducati wrote: lol fail quoting Epic Fail on my part. I'll take it. I jacked it completely up. It's cool bro, only messing around
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 14	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:52:00 - [47] - Quote Yes i really HATE stupid scrubs with fricking sentinels with light weapons like rail rifles.That's like giving a proto scout with a cloak a boundless HMG. When i kill then i spend a couple minites teabagging the heck out of them CCP stop this BS
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 130	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:54:00 - [48] - Quote I gave one of those heavies with RRs a hell of a time with my TAR Gallogi. The tactical's still too weak to kill his pansy ass though. I refuse to use a light weapon on my Amarr Sentinel for this very reason: I tried the Assault HMG, and I hated when a scout got too close and it didn't insta-melt him. Plus, my ScP is just as good as any light weapon. CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 120	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:54:00 - [49] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Yes i really HATE stupid scrubs with fricking sentinels with light weapons like rail rifles. When i kill then i spend a couple minites teabagging the heck out of them I will be sure to greet you in my galsen with a duvolle.
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 14	Posted - 2014.07.01 00:56:00 - [50] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: I gave one of those heavies with RRs a hell of a time with my TAR Gallogi. The tactical's still too weak to kill his pansy ass though. I refuse to use a light weapon on my Amarr Sentinel for this very reason: I tried the Assault HMG, and I hated when a scout got too close and it didn't insta-melt him. Plus, my ScP is just as good as any light weapon. Dual Carthum Assualt Scrambler Pistols

Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2674	Posted - 2014.07.01 01:01:00 - [51] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Mikey Ducati wrote: lol fail quoting Epic Fail on my part. I'll take it. I jacked it completely up. No worries idk how to work quotes anyways lol. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Atiim Fooly Cooly. 10065	Posted - 2014.07.01 02:03:00 - [52] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Not to mention the gun weighs more than the scout. CCP has released information stating the weight of the Scout Suit and the HMG? Where can I find this? Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5526	Posted - 2014.07.01 02:08:00 - [53] - Quote Absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be able to use light weapons. It's like not allowing you to put a sidearm in a light weapon slot- no point in it because light weapons are better than sidearms, anyway. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Bax Zanith 180	Posted - 2014.07.01 03:08:00 - [54] - Quote I hardly see light weapone heavies anymore. Normaly they have a scrambler rifle when I see them. Iv also noticed they tipicly use standard level suits and weapons. If you ask me, I think that they might just be new players attempting to defend themselves from the constant protostomping. If I am correct than any of you complaining about heavies with light weapons only have yourselves to blame. They didn't die from the cold without They died from the cold within. - James Patrick Kinney
Justice Prevails 277	Posted - 2014.07.01 04:01:00 - [55] - Quote Been seeing this more and more lately. At first, thought WTF, but now I see it more of an evolutionary thing. Your medium assault becomes obsolete getting OHKd by cloaked shotguns and eaten by HMG s You don't want to go scout or commando(suit) HMG is cool but has limited range on wide open maps What to they tell the QQers on this forum? Adapt or die. Well, they have adapted. Embracing my inner scrub since 2013.
Sarus Rambo Direct Action Resources 171	Posted - 2014.07.01 17:29:00 - [56] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: This is a specific response to the turn radius argument. What other reason is there for slowing down the turn radius other than making it easy for scouts to sneak and shot them without fear of reprisal? I do happen to know there are plenty of people who don't run Shotgun scout. Anyone else who is not running SG or Nova knife just needs to stay outside optimal HMG range and take a Sentinel down slowly. I still don't see how that justifies making Sentinels even easier targets while at the same time making it harder for them to defend themselves. Basically Sarus is saying, "if I can sneak up on him, he should die without me having to worry about getting shot myself." If you want, substitute Shotgun in my previous comment for RR, CR, AR, etc. etc." The theory is still the same. I don't think scouts should be able to carry light weapons either honestly. Id like to see the shotgun toned down to side weapon status to keep it viable for scouts, but with a lot less power behind it, taking many consecutive hits in order to bring down a heavy frame. Scouts should be about hit and run, not sneaky insta-kills. That is another discussion though. If you play heavy you need some sort of weakness. That is the entire discussion. Being slower running really isn't much of a weakness when you have so much health you can mow down any opponent at medium-short range, especially when you can use light weapons. This also makes LAV heavies very attractive since it completely removes the heavies main weakness. A sentinel has around 1000 health, it will take a couple seconds of shooting with a rifle to kill them, that gives them plenty of time to turn around and defend themselves, and even with this cut down it would still be plenty of time. Basically open ground should be the bane of heavies, where people can maneuver around them, but in tighter areas they should be very attractive and powerful since their main turning weakness is mitigated by less open flanks. This weakness can also be mitigated by working with a squad of other non heavy suits which can protect the heavies flanks as it mows down everything in the front. That's just my .02 isk. This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 192	Posted - 2014.07.01 17:40:00 - [57] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: What if there were a penalty of some kind? Reduction to light weapon range OR Reduction to reload etc. I wanted to make the OR stand out because I would be careful not to add too many restrictions, if one small one doesn't create a significant enough sacrifice, then another small penalty can be added. I think there should be battlefield variety, but I think there should be a little sacrifice without it being so significant to render the variations completely useless. Or just drop heavys turn speed... Then you'll see a lot less wielding rail rifles... I'm also a forge gunner and would be happy with this.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1230	Posted - 2014.07.01 18:08:00 - [58] - Quote I am only too happy to stick my forge gun onto a cloaky scout suit! Oh god do you know how much fun that would be! - Cloak on, sneaks up to heavies and others, decloak, forge gun charges......BAWWWOOOMM! haha (Yes I know you can do similar with remotes and the forge gun charging would give you away but still, I love forge! <3 ) Investigate 9/11
vlad stoich Fooly Cooly. 192	Posted - 2014.07.01 18:09:00 - [59] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Hmmm Should I fit my HMG, my HMG, the HMG, or maybe the HMG today? I'm trying to break out of the mold so I think I might go with an HMG, but I guess if I wanted to change things up I could try the HMG or maybe even the HMG if I'm feeling frisky. I could just be a rebel though and fit the HMG Decisions decisions. Dont forget the forge gun. As a dropship pilot I know you love those.
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1680	Posted - 2014.07.01 18:16:00 - [60] - Quote As a Heavy I say yes. No doubt. I have been trying to run assault but I am finding it difficult do to all the heavy wannabes running with AR's and RR's. Its a joke. You have the almost killed but since they can tank 2-3 time what you have they just wear you down and when it comes time to reload or switch weapons, down you go. They have the same range, the only disadvantage is a larger hit box but they offset that with larger EhP. CCP needs to limit heavies to heavy weapons only. Only scrubs with no game run heavies with light weapons. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique



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