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How can I be a better Logi?

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Klutch Cordova Direct Action Resources 4	Posted - 2014.06.30 15:12:00 - [1] - Quote [Other than not be Caldari, I should add.] Aight, I'm not exactly a noob, I've got 8.4M SP invested, and I've been told I'm a pretty good Logi. I'm told that when people ask where I'm at, I'm right there, so I must be doing something right, at least. However, I find I have trouble with positioning and decision-making, among other things... though those two are the most prevalent issues I'd like to work on. For positioning, the thing I see the most often is... when I have my repair leash on a heavy, and said heavy turns a corner, I'm at a loss as to what to do. I usually follow them around the corner, get caught out of position and get gunned down in a second, leaving my heavy without reps and potentially losing that encounter. How does a Logi move about the battlefield, knowing that they're public enemy #1 and easily sighted, thanks to our yellow armor? For decision-making... I imagine there's more to Logi-ing than just keeping a repair leash on a heavy. I'm stuck wondering whether or not I should have my gun out and attempt to lower the time to kill of the encounter or leave reps on my heavy so he can murder them himself. However, when the target is at range, and my heavy tells me about it, I deal with the target with my range, and we move on. That, I at least have down, but everything else is a blur. Any tips or anything to help out, peeps? Whether you're an assault or whether you're a heavy, you're stayin' alive, stayin' alive. It's "Klutch," not "Krutch."
MoonEagle A Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 202	Posted - 2014.06.30 16:04:00 - [2] - Quote People may disagree with me but I consider myself a support in all the games I play. I loathe being attached to one person. I move around the battlefield looking for where I am needed. Do we need uplinks? Does anyone need nanohives? Who needs repping? Do we need to take an objective, CRU or resupply? I will help out a firefight when needed. And yes, unfortunately death is inevitable. We are targets especially when repping. Armor and shielkf yourself! After 2 years of playing, decisions come easily and like second nature. Feel free to squad up so we can logi together. :)
lee corwood Knights Of Ender 860	Posted - 2014.06.30 16:11:00 - [3] - Quote I'm not an expert logi. There are many better logis out there but this has been my experience over the past year+. Your Specific Scenario For your example, if a heavy is turning the corner and you're getting immediately gunned down one of two things is happening: - you're turning the corner with your heavy but you're just standing there. When I turn any corner, I'm jumping around like a caffeinated flea. I do large side to side jumps, little shuffles, figure eights, basically just never standing still. I'm constantly checking both my health as well as the health of my heavy. If they get down to half armor, I'm yelling at them to back up. - you're turning the corner and the heavy pulled you into a firefight of just you two against multiple. If that's the case, the error lies with the heavy. In certain situations with a good heavy, that might work out. However, I only stick around for that with a heavy I trust. Random pub matches I've attached to heavies that thought the fat suit + HMG + me = invincibility. Which just isn't the case. TIPS If you're in a CQC instance when the heavy is constantly peeking back and forth around the corner, just stay put. He knows where you are. Just be helpful and call out when his health is dangerously low. When I play in very tight spaces where you could be flanked, like Impact Ridge Alpha where the supply depot is underground, I'll put on my rep tool but then look around to see if any red berry is trying to flank us. The 'sound' of the disconnect of the rep tool is enough to draw back my attention if my healee gets out of range. Always call out grenades. When I'm repping, my eyes are everywhere. Nothing worse focusing all your attention on their health bar and neither of you noticing a grenade that rolled under his feet. If you're actively repping someone, tell them when you have to stop to perform anything else, like putting down ammo. This keeps them from being overly brave thinking you've got them when they're now effectively 'on their own' and should use cover much more generously. As for knowing when to pull out your gun, this is sadly just going to take lots of experience. I've seen 1v1 happen with my traveling heavy and it was better for me to stop healing and start shooting so I could revive him after the threat was down. For running in general squads. I hoard my ammo until its called for. I don't get nearly as much points from nanohives as I do from uplinks/reps. Being constantly on the move will make you regret having laid down both of yours at an objective no one is at anymore. EQ to love I can't recommend the BDR-8 enough. It's reach is fantastic. When you're running in a really great working group, spring for the Six Kin. Those two streams will immediately make you your own orbital. Complex Armor Repairer. You need one. Never, ever carry a needle without a rep tool. If you do, you're not support, you're a liability. And overall, I can't say how much comms have made me better at my role. It's not possible or even desired by everyone, but once I started actively participating with my team, you will be surprised not only how much better you'll do but how much more your team will actively call on you for support and leverage you as part of the team. By being on comms and finding a fantastic corp, it completely shaped the way I spent my SP because I was uniquely aware of what my team needed from me most to be more effective. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 928	Posted - 2014.06.30 16:16:00 - [4] - Quote Your heavies should know how they are being repped and move accordingly around corners, without putting you in unneccesary danger. Maybe your heavy shouldn't go behind the corner in the first place depending on the situation and stick in the doorway so you can rep him safely from behind the corner, this way he could also pop in cover if they out damage your reps. A good heavy can make your life & positioning that much easier. As for taking out your gun...keep practicing and experimenting...if you and your heavy (squadies) survive, consider it job well done, you could also softening the enemy up with a well cooked flux just before your heavy charges in and oher stuff like that,
Klutch Cordova Direct Action Resources 5	Posted - 2014.06.30 17:19:00 - [5] - Quote lee corwood wrote: When I turn any corner, I'm jumping around like a caffeinated flea. Same here, even if I'm not turning a corner. I've been sniped enough to never stay still, even when things look quiet. lee corwood wrote: Random pub matches I've attached to heavies that thought the fat suit + HMG + me = invincibility. Which just isn't the case. I've noticed this as well. Past a certain point, it only gets me killed, and keeps me from supporting my green berries, so I often decide against supporting blues. lee corwood wrote: When I play in very tight spaces where you could be flanked, like Impact Ridge Alpha where the supply depot is underground, I'll put on my rep tool but then look around to see if any red berry is trying to flank us. The 'sound' of the disconnect of the rep tool is enough to draw back my attention if my healee gets out of range. I agree with this, it's why I love the targeting system of the rep tool. I can watch our six, call out nearby targets and intel and kinda "steer" my heavy around. As for when we get flanked, this is often when I stop repairing and instantly open fire. lee corwood wrote: Don't neglect the whole team for your heavy. Heavy is just one piece of the puzzle. All blues need support. True, though Sentinel/HMG is the one class I don't know how to work with all too well. Not knowing how to work with an HMGunner feels a lot like being single on Valentine's Day, for some reason, I'm really not sure why. With an Assault/Commando? We easily redline the enemy team, somehow. lee corwood wrote: As for knowing when to pull out your gun, this is sadly just going to take lots of experience. I've seen 1v1 happen with my traveling heavy and it was better for me to stop healing and start shooting so I could revive him after the threat was down. I notice that sometimes too. I don't like leaving my heavy to die, but it happens sometimes. Luckily, I pick them up, rep them to full armor and we get back to killing. Whether you're an assault or whether you're a heavy, you're stayin' alive, stayin' alive. It's "Klutch," not "Krutch."
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 650	Posted - 2014.06.30 18:34:00 - [6] - Quote Klutch Cordova wrote: For decision-making... You have a 400 DPS rifle and a <150 hp/s rep-tool. The rifle only hurts if you aim well, the rep tool works as long as you keep the trigger down. Conclusion: Either pull your gun if you are confident in your aiming or get out of line of sight of the enemy and rep your heavy from a distance. It may well be worth it to switch to a repper with longer range as that gives you vastly more freedom of positioning. A dead Logi is not a useful Logi. You don't need the last 30 hp/s.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 514	Posted - 2014.07.02 23:27:00 - [7] - Quote You are correct. There is more to being a good logi than repping a heavy. 1) I use 3 complex precision enhancers on my Amarr-Logi so I know where I should go and where I shouldn't. If a heavy is running into a group of 3 or 4 reds then, even the best heavies, will likely fall. You being there won't change that. 2) I like to stay where people are "protecting" an uplink or objective and support them there. Protecting a strong uplink or an important objective (i.e. if you have 2 and the enemy has 2 and you are in the lead against their MCC) is way more valuable then following a heavy so he doesn't die fast. 3) Ammo shouldn't be spammed. How many times has someone just tossed stupid nades and used up all of the ammo. You should drop one ammo at a time as your squad mates or team mates need it. Besides, as you learn to survive better you might see yourself not dying and needing the ammo yourself. 4) A good heavy peaks around the corner and then moves back before rushing in. Don't follow reckless heavies b/c you will pay the price 5) Save uplinks. How many times are you near a null and a whole lot of fluxes show up? Often enough that you wish you kept an uplink in your clip right? Save at least 1 whenever you can 6) I don't care what anyone says, the Rep Tool that reps two people is far superior to the core focus when running solo. If you are squaded I would STILL run the double shot rep tool. 7) Don't weigh yourself down with speed penalties (i.e. armor plates) if it can be helped. Sometimes, you need to escape and get an uplink in a strong spot to provide re-enforcements 8) All logi's should have a complex dampener to keep mediums and heavies from seeing them on their tacnet. I've experimented with 2 at the same time and didn't see much of a different. While you are repping that heavy, it's kind of nice they think that you aren't there don't you think? 9) I, very rarely now, do a LAV logi thing. I'll roll around in my LAV in an open field, run over someone that just killed someone else, nanite the other person, rep them, and move on. Right now I am on this Forge Gun kick but I am craving going back to this. Hope some of this helps. PSN is "Ekopalm" Playing: Murdered Soul Suspect WIP: Child of Light, MGS5 Welcome to play with me anytime, message me.
TEBOW BAGGINS Defenders of the Helghast Dream Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1081	Posted - 2014.07.03 00:41:00 - [8] - Quote i'm semi new to logi but imo sometimes it's best to arrive slightly later to the encounter than the heavy and keep your rep leash out of sight. vets are trained to slay logis on sight before anyone else. try to get them to focus on your heavies first by rounding the corner a bit late. sometimes when we have the perfect squad the logi will hotdrop from dropship late after the heavies have already engaged. we keep our doc on board and try to drop him at request, but of course a lot can go wrong in that scenario. when it plays out in our favor it's pretty epic. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3611	Posted - 2014.07.03 04:43:00 - [9] - Quote A lot of it just comes with experience, and it's hard to put into words. As far as when to have the gun vs repper out, the simplest guidance I can give is to remember that your heavy has shields, so you always have more time to pull out the repper than you do to switch to your gun. As such, when in doubt, the best defense is a good offense. Otherwise, I will give you some words of wisdom that may not be entirely obvious but work for me. 1) Don't always stay behind the heavy. This may be a little counter-intuitive but is very helpful. Roll in a circle to the sides and (when not actively under fire, of course) even in front. This way you keep the reps on for when trouble comes you way, and since you're looking at more than his fat ass, you can see it coming ahead of time. 2) Same thing with corners. The obvious and easy way is to make sure the heavy takes a wider turn so you can hug the wall and possibly stay out of the enemy LOS while keeping the reps on. If not, you can take a wider turn and play the angles so that they may not be able to easily see you. 3) Never stand still. Keep rolling back and forth or in a little circle with the reps on, you'll still keep the lock and make a harder target. 4) Always have your gun and not the rep tool out crossing open ground, that's when a second gun is almost always more useful than the reps. Similarly if moving quickly through an area with a lot of objects like boxes and small posts, keep the gun out, all the junk will make you lose your lock repeatedly anyway. 5) What should be obvious but is easily forgotten, use cover!. Crouch behind a box; stand under an overhang, inside the housing of the objective, behind an LAV. Use what's there to keep yourself protected. You don't need LOS on the enemy, just on the heavy, so don't expose yourself. 6) Finally, don't just tie yourself to one heavy the whole match unless that's your designated role in an organized team. Rep him, then set him free, rep someone else nearby, then go back. Keeping everyone on the team ready to go is more helpful in the big picture than just keeping the one killdozer topped of and whoring guardian points (tho they are nice). (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1702	Posted - 2014.07.03 07:06:00 - [10] - Quote Random train of thought follows. I'm waiting for an EvE skill queue to hit 23h59m before bed lol. Just remember there's more to being a good logi than repping. Read the Logi Code thread. And other logi guides. Your job begins before you step onto the battlefield. The 6Ps - Prior preparation prevents ** poor performance ... or just "Be prepared". First... what will your role be? In some ways, you can consider that there are THREE roles, and you can be playing a different role from minute to minute or even second to second. But you need to know which role is the most beneficial for your team at any given moment. The roles are: Heavy Support, Squad Support, and Superhero. Heavy support provides reps and ammo to your bro heavy. That's it. If that's what you're after, skip ahead to 5... Tactical Awareness. Squad support provides things like core reps to two squad mates taking intermittent fire, runs and guns and brings along ammo, links, needles, scanner and generally just goes with the flow providing what is needed, providing rear security for a squad, nannying a pub match ambush camp setup when a line forms and drops a couple quick hives and quick triage to dudes who almost died before killing the enemy, etc. Superhero. This is where you do things only a logi can do and can basically be summed up as "Synergistic WP Farming" either solo or as part of a squad where people are doing their own thing. You spam links early in the match. You spam links late in a match when there are no more. You dump hives on blueberries to feed them ammo and claim their WP. You spawn into a losing match, run to the flank, drop a link, defend it against a couple scouts, then rep the heavies that spawn in on your link as you push the point. You set up camps on towers for forge gunners. You randomly rep a tank and help him get back in the fight. Whatever. This is the all-other-logi- role. Second... what suit are you in? If you are a dedicated repper and full support, you need to be minmatar to leverage the bonus and the slots. Amarr logi appears to be more 'super assault' with fast links and maybe carry supplemental ammo or a scanner while slaying. Gal Logi I'll leave to someone who's used the suit. Third... your fit. You need to have multiple builds for different situations. Depending on the map you might want to fit kincats, 4 sets of links and spam that ** at the very beginning all over the point in tactically-aware spots. This is 100x more important than initially spamming with a rep fit if no one else on the team is doing it. In longer doms, you do it AGAIN if your team loses all links. Core focused fit if your proto heavy bro is completely brick tanked for you. Running with two heavies that are each rep fit and can mutually support a squad? Run a core rep so you can support both. No scouts around? Make sure you have a scanner. Are you going to be trying to get kills yourself? Then fit your proto weapon... if not... Gek it up. Are you running with caldari or minmatar heavies? Then focus on being offensive yourself while quickly providing triage to them in the seconds they can duck behind cover or between engagements. Fourth... battlefield awareness. What type of match is it? What type of map? What is your squad composition? How is the battle ebbing and flowing... are you getting wiped by stompers, doing the stomping yourself, seeing skirmishes pop up all over the map or is it a line vs line meat grinder? Fit an uplink, hives and either a scanner (probably) or a needle along with your rep if you're in a heavy support role. Favor fast hives that you can drop more of. If it's a meat grinder, spawn in a 'camp setup' fit and dump rep hives and links tactically behind your lines. If there are no heavies, and you are in a tight-knit med/light frame mobile squad, you can go scanner, hives, links, 80% needle and support the squad with utility between engagements and your gun during contact. Fifth... tactical awareness. This is what you need to be aware of after everything else, in the moment, as bullets are flying (or not flying). This is knowing when to take cover and when to charge. Knowing when to rep and not rep. When to retreat, when to spam links, everything. This is what comes with experience. Do a little question and answer with yourself after each match of "what could i have done better?" and then try that next time. If it doesnt work, it doesn't work. Trial and error. Go watch "Equilibrium" and consider the geometry of the gun katas. It's ridiculous but it's a good point - you want to be elsewhere when the bullet arrives. Try to remember the maps very well. Not just on the macro scale, but on the micro scale so that when you spawn in you immediately know where you are without even having to turn. So that you know where a crate is behind you without looking if you're in a gunfight and need cover. It's just... the learning process. That's all it is. Random tips? If your heavy steps back to reload... pop out and dump some suppressive fire. It shouldn't work in this game... but it does just to keep the pressure on the enemy. If heavy moves around a corner, step away from the wall you're next to so the rep tool can keep healing on a diagonal. If the heavy pushes... YOU have to decide whether you can follow him or not. Comms help... tell him to pull back when you need to. Always be watching your pair's back. If you have comms, tell the heavy if someone comes up. If you don't have comms, and you don't think the heavy knows there's a guy about to kill you... pull out a gun and kill the enemy first - you dead does no one any good and if the heavy dies you can either revive him or drop a link for him. You are safer sticking to repping and praying if your heavy is guarding a doorway. In open spaces, you need to be on full offensive gun mode because of your range advantage (speaking of which... make sure you have range). Measure each situation you are in against those... "Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay it's price."

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3612	Posted - 2014.07.03 16:06:00 - [11] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Quite thorough and good advice Not bad. I was trying to keep it to the narro question he asked about reps. But anyway, if we're going to talk about more than that here, try these three threads if you haven't already. They have a lot of excellent information and good discussion on later pages. I'm sure there are other useful ones but these are sort of the required reading for aspiring logi's: Redbleach'sThe logi code. Your bible. Shayz made a nice one about spending your SP it's more geared towards MInmatar suits but still good. More importantly, he has some good youtube videos on the subject as well. Some other guy wrote this one about using drop uplinks. It's a long-winded wall of text but not bad otherwise. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
TEBOW BAGGINS Defenders of the Helghast Dream Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1093	Posted - 2014.07.04 00:43:00 - [12] - Quote probably already mentioned but something really important is Dont be a WP hoar... theres good logis and there's scrub logis the scrubs only care about trying to go top of the scoreboard and are frowned upon because thats all they care about- they will clone your team trying to do suicide revives that get the guy being revived killed multiple times. they dont care if they die or their patient dies repeatedly, as long as they get their WP. these logis are total scrubs and there are many of them.. dont be a WP hoar and be a logi that ppl actually want nearby. apologize if you get someone double killed- it happens. as long as your ppl understand you didnt just hoar out for WP and made a mistake because it happens. but when there's that stupid logi hoarpointer nearby that everyone hates- he revives ppl without analyzing anything. and then logi hoarpointer thinks he something special at the end of the match with 1Kill 27Death and he goes top score anyway, but everyone else had to suffer his ret4rdedness and your team looses due to being cloned. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 40	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:11:00 - [13] - Quote Just like the others said keep moving. This will help as smart players will try to take out the logi because if they do the heavy isnt as threatining
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3615	Posted - 2014.07.04 02:34:00 - [14] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: probably already mentioned but something really important is Dont be a WP hoar... theres good logis and there's scrub logis the scrubs only care about trying to go top of the scoreboard and are frowned upon because thats all they care about- they will clone your team trying to do suicide revives that get the guy being revived killed multiple times. they dont care if they die or their patient dies repeatedly, as long as they get their WP. these logis are total scrubs and there are many of them.. dont be a WP hoar and be a logi that ppl actually want nearby. apologize if you get someone double killed- it happens. as long as your ppl understand you didnt just hoar out for WP and made a mistake because it happens. but when there's that stupid logi hoarpointer nearby that everyone hates- he revives ppl without analyzing anything. and then logi hoarpointer thinks he something special at the end of the match with 1Kill 27Death and he goes top score anyway, but everyone else had to suffer his ret4rdedness and your team looses due to being cloned. So true it's sad. I swear I'm not making this up, I have witnesses. 2 nights ago we redlined the other team in a dom match, and as god as my witness some idiot ran right in front of a goddamn blaster tank and tried to revive someone the tank just killed. It was sad. I just went ahead and resisted the temptation to get the double kill and took him out before he could complete it. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1706	Posted - 2014.07.05 08:21:00 - [15] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: probably already mentioned but something really important is Dont be a WP hoar... theres good logis and there's scrub logis the scrubs only care about trying to go top of the scoreboard and are frowned upon because thats all they care about- they will clone your team trying to do suicide revives that get the guy being revived killed multiple times. they dont care if they die or their patient dies repeatedly, as long as they get their WP. these logis are total scrubs and there are many of them.. dont be a WP hoar and be a logi that ppl actually want nearby. apologize if you get someone double killed- it happens. as long as your ppl understand you didnt just hoar out for WP and made a mistake because it happens. but when there's that stupid logi hoarpointer nearby that everyone hates- he revives ppl without analyzing anything. and then logi hoarpointer thinks he something special at the end of the match with 1Kill 27Death and he goes top score anyway, but everyone else had to suffer his ret4rdedness and your team looses due to being cloned. Great point. And it brings up another which some will debate: Logis should try to be <1.0 kdr... just like everybody else. I know killing isn't everything, especially for dedicated logis, but if you have 0 interest in killing, you better be damn good at staying alive. If you are going 1-10 in a match... regardless of anything else you are doing, there is a very good chance your team would be better off without you on it. "Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay it's price."
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3617	Posted - 2014.07.05 10:42:00 - [16] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: probably already mentioned but something really important is Dont be a WP hoar... theres good logis and there's scrub logis the scrubs only care about trying to go top of the scoreboard and are frowned upon because thats all they care about- they will clone your team trying to do suicide revives that get the guy being revived killed multiple times. they dont care if they die or their patient dies repeatedly, as long as they get their WP. these logis are total scrubs and there are many of them.. dont be a WP hoar and be a logi that ppl actually want nearby. apologize if you get someone double killed- it happens. as long as your ppl understand you didnt just hoar out for WP and made a mistake because it happens. but when there's that stupid logi hoarpointer nearby that everyone hates- he revives ppl without analyzing anything. and then logi hoarpointer thinks he something special at the end of the match with 1Kill 27Death and he goes top score anyway, but everyone else had to suffer his ret4rdedness and your team looses due to being cloned. Great point. And it brings up another which some will debate: Logis should try to be <1.0 kdr... just like everybody else. I know killing isn't everything, especially for dedicated logis, but if you have 0 interest in killing, you better be damn good at staying alive. If you are going 1-10 in a match... regardless of anything else you are doing, there is a very good chance your team would be better off without you on it. Do you mean > 1.0? I'll get there... Someday. 4 kills a match isn't gonna fix it overnight, lol. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 873	Posted - 2014.07.05 23:32:00 - [17] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: probably already mentioned but something really important is Dont be a WP hoar... theres good logis and there's scrub logis the scrubs only care about trying to go top of the scoreboard and are frowned upon because thats all they care about- they will clone your team trying to do suicide revives that get the guy being revived killed multiple times. they dont care if they die or their patient dies repeatedly, as long as they get their WP. these logis are total scrubs and there are many of them.. dont be a WP hoar and be a logi that ppl actually want nearby. apologize if you get someone double killed- it happens. as long as your ppl understand you didnt just hoar out for WP and made a mistake because it happens. but when there's that stupid logi hoarpointer nearby that everyone hates- he revives ppl without analyzing anything. and then logi hoarpointer thinks he something special at the end of the match with 1Kill 27Death and he goes top score anyway, but everyone else had to suffer his ret4rdedness and your team looses due to being cloned. Great point. And it brings up another which some will debate: Logis should try to be <1.0 kdr... just like everybody else. I know killing isn't everything, especially for dedicated logis, but if you have 0 interest in killing, you better be damn good at staying alive. If you are going 1-10 in a match... regardless of anything else you are doing, there is a very good chance your team would be better off without you on it. Yes and no. I don't necessarily believe it needs to be 1.0 or higher. I do absolutely believe there is a threshold where you just know you're wasting your teams clones, but promoting a hard number causes a lot of newberries who might be interested in logi-ing into constantly checking their KDR as an important stat. In general you know when you did good and bad. Don't be a wp ***** and don't cost your team the battle. If you perform badly in a match, either think of changing your tactics or your fitting until you see some improvement. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1706	Posted - 2014.07.06 09:47:00 - [18] - Quote lol math symbols > me apparently. Like I said man, people should TRY to be over 1.0. At the end of the day it's all about having fun so more power to anyone who plays. That aside, I like 1.0 as a sort of goal line 'in general' because games are lost and won based on who kills versus who stays alive - as a team. If you have less than 1.0 kdr in a match, it means that your team 'paid' for your logi services by being at a clone disadvantage that game. Your 'logi value' is hard to quantify so I prefer to stay at least even steven on my personal clone usage and then anything else I do is a pure benefit. You can argue cases of you facilitating five extra kills by a heavy being a net gain over you going 0-3 and be valid, but like I said - it's hard to quantify or really say that that heavy wouldn't have played more cautiously and still gotten the kills without you. It becomes anecdotal. The 1.0 is just my rule of thumb. And to clarify - I mean per match not your permanent record ... Dust was my first FPS in over a decade so I definitely started off ... rough. Early on just do your thing, but keep "always improve" as your mantra. I think it's ok for newbros to constantly check their KDR if it means they're thinking about ways to improve in general. It IS part of the game, though a debatable and imperfect stat as recorded. To be honest being a logi is complex and if someone has a horribad KDR while logi, it might be worthwhile to spend some time purely focused on the 'kill or be killed' aspects of the game (i.e. slay for a while, focus on positioning, learning weapon ranges and capabilities, learn the maps, practice surviving and tracking the flow of battle) as a means to build a foundation that will serve them well as a future uberbadass logi. :-) "Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay it's price."
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3627	Posted - 2014.07.06 15:01:00 - [19] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: lol math symbols > me apparently. Like I said man, people should TRY to be over 1.0. At the end of the day it's all about having fun so more power to anyone who plays. That aside, I like 1.0 as a sort of goal line 'in general' because games are lost and won based on who kills versus who stays alive - as a team. If you have less than 1.0 kdr in a match, it means that your team 'paid' for your logi services by being at a clone disadvantage that game. Your 'logi value' is hard to quantify so I prefer to stay at least even steven on my personal clone usage and then anything else I do is a pure benefit. You can argue cases of you facilitating five extra kills by a heavy being a net gain over you going 0-3 and be valid, but like I said - it's hard to quantify or really say that that heavy wouldn't have played more cautiously and still gotten the kills without you. It becomes anecdotal. The 1.0 is just my rule of thumb. And to clarify - I mean per match not your permanent record ... Dust was my first FPS in over a decade so I definitely started off ... rough. Early on just do your thing, but keep "always improve" as your mantra. I think it's ok for newbros to constantly check their KDR if it means they're thinking about ways to improve in general. It IS part of the game, though a debatable and imperfect stat as recorded. To be honest being a logi is complex and if someone has a horribad KDR while logi, it might be worthwhile to spend some time purely focused on the 'kill or be killed' aspects of the game (i.e. slay for a while, focus on positioning, learning weapon ranges and capabilities, learn the maps, practice surviving and tracking the flow of battle) as a means to build a foundation that will serve them well as a future uberbadass logi. :-) For me, (as an average at best killer), I always thought of it as more being an issue of how often one dies. My average game lies around 4/4 depending on how "pure support" I'm being (I do have a couple "perfect" 0/0 1500+ WP battles... It's damn hard to never get killed) with the concept that as long I don't die very often, my KDR (basically 1) is really of very little import. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 358	Posted - 2014.07.06 22:13:00 - [20] - Quote Klutch Cordova wrote: [Other than not be Caldari, I should add.] Aight, I'm not exactly a noob, I've got 8.4M SP invested, and I've been told I'm a pretty good Logi. I'm told that when people ask where I'm at, I'm right there, so I must be doing something right, at least. However, I find I have trouble with positioning and decision-making, among other things... though those two are the most prevalent issues I'd like to work on. For positioning, the thing I see the most often is... when I have my repair leash on a heavy, and said heavy turns a corner, I'm at a loss as to what to do. I usually follow them around the corner, get caught out of position and get gunned down in a second, leaving my heavy without reps and potentially losing that encounter. How does a Logi move about the battlefield, knowing that they're public enemy #1 and easily sighted, thanks to our yellow armor? For decision-making... I imagine there's more to Logi-ing than just keeping a repair leash on a heavy. I'm stuck wondering whether or not I should have my gun out and attempt to lower the time to kill of the encounter or leave reps on my heavy so he can murder them himself. However, when the target is at range, and my heavy tells me about it, I deal with the target with my range, and we move on. That, I at least have down, but everything else is a blur. Any tips or anything to help out, peeps? 1st the obvious, always run a proto repper when you are in a squad. in pubs preferably the six kin triage repper (reps 2 for the most repping and has a long leash) if you aren't doing this, this will make what you do more effective. as far as heavies cutting corners, if its a randome blue dot, let him go... he is gonna die and so are you if you follow. in your squad you and the heavy should be in constant communication, he shouldn't cut corners, he should round them, and you should be positioned so when he rounds it the lock isn't lost. you sould be behind cover but somewhat diagonal and back a bit so the heavy can confront the targets while you stay safe behind cover. if your heavy doesn't round corners he/she is wrong, not you. get 5 in links and hives asap... have cheap logi suits (bpo's - standard) set up with adv links one with adv hives, one with proto links and one with proto hives. these are your "logi bomb" suits when you have convenient access to a depot use it to get in these suits and litter the ground in strategic locations with hives and links. I have made over 2500 wp just from this without firing my weapon once. every suit you have for logi should have a repper and needle (militia is fine for all but pc), and then variants with link or hives. use the link suit if links are low, other than that the hive suit preferably with allotek hives. a major part of your job is watching your heavy's back, get used to walking backwards while locked on, obviously this is situational, but walking backward will save you from scout murder. tell your heavy when opposition is behind you, heavies are usualy completely consumed with whats in front of them. NEVER break lock unless your life depends on it, but if you must let your heavy know. while 90% of the time the heavy leads and you follow, it is your job to make him aware of enemies in other directions if he wants to push forward and make sure he clears the path 1st. to help with locating enemy position get precision enhancement and range amplification to 5 and run some precision enhancers on your suit if you don't have a scout with you. hope this helps.

501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 232	Posted - 2014.07.07 06:32:00 - [21] - Quote Amazing feedback all. My last tidbit on gun vs reps. The HMG optimal range is around 40 meters. If it is one hostile, and you have no cover, fire. They may aim for you and you can't hide. Outside, or 40 meters, tell your hvy to fall back, or rush up to your heavy and legitimately fire and use him as a body shield. When me and my corpmates are in sync, and we are, I stick to his flank and we strafe in unison. I gun the enemy down, then rep him as he took the brunt of the rounds. Inside 40 meters depends. A speed scout shoot the crap out of him, he cant afford to get away, because he WILL find you and back stab you. Otherwise rep your hvy. Against other hvies, rep, finish them off if your guy fails, revive. Overall, tactics my friends. Learn weapon shapes as well. If I see a guy with a Rail Rilfe at 70 meters, I'm not going to rep a heavy running cross an open field. It's not happening. You are the added firepower your heavy needs. Fire at range for him, and try that body guard tactic I mentioned. It works and you feel like a badbutt when you drop three people and you both survive 07 From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx Haus of Triage 198	Posted - 2014.07.07 07:45:00 - [22] - Quote Klutch Cordova wrote: [Other than not be Caldari, I should add.] Aight, I'm not exactly a noob, I've got 8.4M SP invested, and I've been told I'm a pretty good Logi. I'm told that when people ask where I'm at, I'm right there, so I must be doing something right, at least. However, I find I have trouble with positioning and decision-making, among other things... though those two are the most prevalent issues I'd like to work on. For positioning, the thing I see the most often is... when I have my repair leash on a heavy, and said heavy turns a corner, I'm at a loss as to what to do. I usually follow them around the corner, get caught out of position and get gunned down in a second, leaving my heavy without reps and potentially losing that encounter. How does a Logi move about the battlefield, knowing that they're public enemy #1 and easily sighted, thanks to our yellow armor? For decision-making... I imagine there's more to Logi-ing than just keeping a repair leash on a heavy. I'm stuck wondering whether or not I should have my gun out and attempt to lower the time to kill of the encounter or leave reps on my heavy so he can murder them himself. However, when the target is at range, and my heavy tells me about it, I deal with the target with my range, and we move on. That, I at least have down, but everything else is a blur. Any tips or anything to help out, peeps? 1.)First thing foremost is to really know your limitation as a player in the game. It's rare that a Logi in this game can kill as good as they can save lives; many say that they are, think that they are, but usually these logi's suck and are more of a liability than anything else. Know where you fit in this equation. 2.) Never use anything less than a proto rep tool. Two beams are better than one and when you combine that most crucial factor with the Min Logi, its truly devastation for your enemy when your behind a beast of a heavy. 3.) Your the most important person on the field. Too many times I see the **** that pics up a smurf (blueberry) in front of a hail of bullets to farm points or just out of sheer novice intelligence. Don't ever put yourself or the person your trying to save in greater risk and embarrassment for a failed attempt to be a hero. Learn to let people die. 4.) Learn the maps your fighting on. Simply put this allows you to better position yourself to maintain holding points, ambushes, whatever the case maybe just learn the maps so your never lost in the fight. 5.) Become the "All Seeing Eye". This is the most important thing of all to becoming a great logi in this game. Having a great sense of situational awareness will always guide you towards a victory if you understand the direction of where the fight is heading and how it will affect the performance of you and your team. The best part about repping others is that you have the time to take in and watch the fight around you when others have tunnel vision for a kill. Be the eyes and ears for your team and notify them of anything that may come their way that possesses a direct or indirect threat. Hope these tips help you o/ Take it easy. \|LOGi GOD\|** Join HAUST
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 57	Posted - 2014.07.07 15:30:00 - [23] - Quote I need some help. I run Ammar Logi and im wondering Nanite injector or drop uplink. I know i must use rep tool. And im STD logi
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 875	Posted - 2014.07.07 16:29:00 - [24] - Quote Zindorak wrote: I need some help. I run Ammar Logi and im wondering Nanite injector or drop uplink. I know i must use rep tool. And im STD logi Why not both? Just make two different fittings. First start with uplinks. As an amarr logi, this is your time to shine. While in your Amarr Logi you get a bonus to uplink spawn time so long as you wear the Amarr Logi suit. Even if in the future you get all the way to proto Amarr Logi, you're standard logi will benefit from the maximum spawn bonus. I would recommend starting the match (get R-9 droplinks as fast as possible) and put them down in strategic areas. John Demonsbane has written some great stuff on uplink placement, you should definitely read up on that. If you don't take away anything else: Never place an uplink facing a corner or wall! After you set down your uplinks, continue the match as normal. If you die, then come in with the suit with an injector. I promise you that if you're in that suit, people are going to want your links first if they're placed in safe/advantages areas and even if some asshat comes along and puts links down right next to yours, they'll still use yours. We want that short spawn time. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 875	Posted - 2014.07.07 16:37:00 - [25] - Quote xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx wrote: 2.) Never use anything less than a proto rep tool. Two beams are better than one and when you combine that most crucial factor with the Min Logi, its truly devastation for your enemy when your behind a beast of a heavy. Disagree with this point. Some reptools have farther reach than proto tools. The BDR-8 has double the reach of a core focused and like you said, Logi's are the most important person on the field and sometimes that doesn't seem to matter to my blueberries at all. If they're going to abandon me at every moment to pad their KDR, my 20-35k piece of EQ is staying in the box. Two streams is king in CQC and generally more useful than one stream but is also dependent on your squad. If you're in a squad made up of almost all scouts, you're not likely to make use of that six kin/lai dai at all. Two heavies? Then suddenly you are your own orbital. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Klutch Cordova Direct Action Resources 16	Posted - 2014.07.07 20:45:00 - [26] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Amazing feedback all. I agree, many thanks everyone. Every time I look at this thread, there's much more than I can respond to. Although I haven't said anything, I greatly appreciate everyone's input. <3 Whether you're an assault or whether you're a heavy, you're stayin' alive, stayin' alive. It's "Klutch," not "Krutch."
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 155	Posted - 2014.07.08 02:10:00 - [27] - Quote Great advice but a question for some posters: How many SP would you need to spend to have a proto repper with all the supporting core skills, suit and weapon? Would you still be a rookie? It's great advice but its also up there with "Let them eat cake" ... Slightly beyond their means. Not One Lifetime
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3634	Posted - 2014.07.08 02:20:00 - [28] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: Great advice but a question for some posters: How many SP would you need to spend to have a proto repper with all the supporting core skills, suit and weapon? Would you still be a rookie? It's great advice but its also up there with "Let them eat cake" ... Slightly beyond their means. Good point. IMO, the BDR-8 triage repper is the way to go for newer players. It's single channel but has great output and is substantially less expensive than the six kin. All my cheaper suits have it. (The godfather of tactical logistics)


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