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Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6099	Posted - 2014.06.19 17:56:00 - [1] - Quote After testing small blaster turrets of all types yesterday I've concluded that while the small blaster is in a much, much better place than it was prior to Bravo it is still in need of much care. Here's my list of what needs to be done: - While the new reticle is great the fact that it disappears is off putting. I wouldn't have a problem with it disappearing on the blaster turrets if it didn't go away after 1 second of firing. + Either get rid of the effect or tone it down, that's for both blasters. - The greater RoF is a grand improvement but it still does not have a great Risk to Reward ratio. As of now, you have to get well within 70 meters of a target to do full on damage to infantry. At that range, especially out in the frontlines, The gunner is going to get popped in a flash. + Increase damage further in the small blasters to make up for incredibly short range The Small Rail has it's place as a long range anti materiel weapon and the small missile has it's place for devastating infantry (in one shot in some cases) and vehicles. Both of those turrets can put a severe hurting on vehicles and infantry while the blaster can only be effective against infantry. The blaster needs to be the go to weapon for anti personnel and right now both the Rail and Missile are better than it by far. Thank you for your time This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3878	Posted - 2014.06.19 17:58:00 - [2] - Quote I haven't gotten to ride my Methana with my Federation neutron yet but I've been meaning to find a partner to help me and test out drive bys. Have you done drive bys with them now and if so are they at least capable somewhat in drivebys? I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6100	Posted - 2014.06.19 18:01:00 - [3] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I haven't gotten to ride my Methana with my Federation neutron yet but I've been meaning to find a partner to help me and test out drive bys. Have you done drive bys with them now and if so are they at least capable somewhat in drivebys? For right now, no. The dispersion is far too much to do anything. When I'm firing the blaster the reticle completely disappears after the first shot and then the rounds look like a shotgun would, all over the damn place. It just doesn't work out. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Auld Syne 166	Posted - 2014.06.20 00:18:00 - [4] - Quote Waits patiently for Small Autocannon Turret

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2946	Posted - 2014.06.20 04:39:00 - [5] - Quote the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6104	Posted - 2014.06.20 05:45:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. Rattati I've played it all today as well trying my best to use it. From Lavs to Assault dropships to small turrets on tanks. The dispersion is simply way too wide to be worth anything on a small turret. Granted, the Small blaster can output some serious DPS now but it doesnt matter when there's an enemy, less than 50 meters away and my blaster shoots everywhere around him and lands a shot on him every other round. I have to be 20 meters away just to land most of my shots on an enemy. So you can completely forget using it in hit and run and its a complete joke using it on the Assault Dropship. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6105	Posted - 2014.06.20 05:48:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. Not to sound contrary but firing anything from a moving vehicle is sort of a pain in the [redacted]. Give a small missile turret a shot on a moving HAV sometime Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2970	Posted - 2014.06.20 06:56:00 - [8] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. Rattati I've played it all today as well trying my best to use it. From Lavs to Assault dropships to small turrets on tanks. The dispersion is simply way too wide to be worth anything on a small turret. Granted, the Small blaster can output some serious DPS now but it doesnt matter when there's an enemy, less than 50 meters away and my blaster shoots everywhere around him and lands a shot on him every other round. I have to be 20 meters away just to land most of my shots on an enemy. So you can completely forget using it in hit and run and its a complete joke using it on the Assault Dropship. Since you are testing, can you try firing at the ground as well. There is supposed to be a small splash that was added some time ago, but never advertised. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2970	Posted - 2014.06.20 06:57:00 - [9] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. Not to sound contrary but firing anything from a moving vehicle is sort of a pain in the [redacted]. Give a small missile turret a shot on a moving HAV sometime Oh I know, I was murdering people on a speedboat with a LMG in BF4 and thinking, why is this so easy and stabilized "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6104	Posted - 2014.06.20 07:07:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. Rattati I've played it all today as well trying my best to use it. From Lavs to Assault dropships to small turrets on tanks. The dispersion is simply way too wide to be worth anything on a small turret. Granted, the Small blaster can output some serious DPS now but it doesnt matter when there's an enemy, less than 50 meters away and my blaster shoots everywhere around him and lands a shot on him every other round. I have to be 20 meters away just to land most of my shots on an enemy. So you can completely forget using it in hit and run and its a complete joke using it on the Assault Dropship. Since you are testing, can you try firing at the ground as well. There is supposed to be a small splash that was added some time ago, but never advertised. I think I would have noticed that during the Assault DropShip Trials but I'll give it a go tomorrow when I try them again. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters

THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 948	Posted - 2014.06.20 09:42:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. I used to be able to get maybe four or five kills a game in my Incubus with a Neutron as my front turret. After 5 matches yesterday I just gave up with only two kills. A few things I noticed before the changes: When I did actually manage to hit what I was aiming for, and the shots were detected I would melt suits. Poor hit detection caused a lot of misses (Hit markers + 'Shield flares' with no damage dealt) Hit detection was worse so on the side turrets and much worse while moving at all After I am able, with the front turret to hit more shots but doing less damage overall. Much easier for side gunner to get kills. Requires me to hover 10-30 meters above the target to do enough damage to kill things Because of the dispersion when you do shoot from further than ~25 meters a very large porton of the shots miss even while aiming directly at the targets center mass. A quick suggestion: Would it be possible to have the dispersion be reduced a fair amount while aiming down sights? The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 484	Posted - 2014.06.20 09:46:00 - [12] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Rattati I've played it all today as well trying my best to use it. From Lavs to Assault dropships to small turrets on tanks. The dispersion is simply way too wide to be worth anything on a small turret. Granted, the Small blaster can output some serious DPS now but it doesnt matter when there's an enemy, less than 50 meters away and my blaster shoots everywhere around him and lands a shot on him every other round. I have to be 20 meters away just to land most of my shots on an enemy. So you can completely forget using it in hit and run and its a complete joke using it on the Assault Dropship. Strongly disagree in the bolded part. As a fervent believer in the power of gunners, the blaster works very well on the Incubus. As a pilot's weapon, not so much though I have bagged a few kills with it; as a gunner's weapon, it is actually effective. What this can accomplish, then, is that the gunner can operate as anti personnel while the pilot uses a missile for additional ground support or use a railgun to provide effective AV. As far as hit-and-run is concerned, that's never been viable on any platform bar a 3-merc Python doing a strafing run. In my opinion the small blaster is effective at the AP role, though the initial bug with the reticule made it difficult to get a grip on. It can be effective vs vehicles in a support sense, because it actually applies so much DPS it can out damage shield regen - coupled with a weapon that can actually stop regen completely (like an Incubus with pilot railgun) you can attack vehicles quite decently. That said, I think it needs that splash damage looked at, because I don't think I've ever seen it applied properly.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1356	Posted - 2014.06.20 10:15:00 - [13] - Quote Tone it down b y 50% at minimum. Then consider if it needs splash. At this point, nothing short of missile splash will garauntee any sort of consistency hitting dropsuits. Tone it down, and then do metrics. Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 552	Posted - 2014.06.20 13:18:00 - [14] - Quote Another thing-they should be more viable on ADS than they are now What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2575	Posted - 2014.06.20 13:37:00 - [15] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Another thing-they should be more viable on ADS than they are now their should be an ads that is designed to use blasters like their is an ads designed to use missiles and rails. I wouldn't mind this philosophy carrying over into tanks as well, feel free to use the same models because I don't notice a visual difference between any of the vehicles as it is.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3642	Posted - 2014.06.20 13:47:00 - [16] - Quote I've been using small blasters on HAVs; they're good when they work, but you have to be dangerously close for the weapon to actually deal damage. They're just not valuable uses of players. calisk galern wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Another thing-they should be more viable on ADS than they are now their should be an ads that is designed to use blasters like their is an ads designed to use missiles and rails. I wouldn't mind this philosophy carrying over into tanks as well, feel free to use the same models because I don't notice a visual difference between any of the vehicles as it is. Incubus is designed to work with blasters and rails. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3286	Posted - 2014.06.20 14:02:00 - [17] - Quote I think the problem is that the reticle and dispersion gets way too big when you start to shot on small blaster. Which makes it near impossible to get reliable hits. If it would stay how it is before you shot then you could get kills with it but as it stands now as soon you start to shot for merly half a sec the bullets go everywhere except where you want them to be. I think small blasters should work like the HMG, the longer you fire the smaller the reticule gets.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6112	Posted - 2014.06.20 14:06:00 - [18] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: I think the problem is that the reticle and dispersion gets way too big when you start to shot on small blaster. Which makes it near impossible to get reliable hits. If it would stay how it is before you shot then you could get kills with it but as it stands now as soon you start to shot for merly half a sec the bullets go everywhere except where you want them to be. I think small blasters should work like the HMG, the longer you fire the smaller the reticule gets. exactly. The small blaster doesnt even hit near the center on the first shot it seems. After the first shot the reticule automatically widens as well as the shots straying off completely. There's no buildup to the dispersion, it just happens which is a very terrible thing. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3749	Posted - 2014.06.20 14:29:00 - [19] - Quote I'd be happy with being able to just duct tape our current light and heavy weapons onto the front/side of dropships. Like, a mass driver turret for the missiles, a RR for the rails, and an assault rifle for the blaster except that they do a ton more damage to vehicles. Or swarms. Being able to have a lock-on turret would be cool. or you know, laser rifle turrets... 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6113	Posted - 2014.06.20 15:12:00 - [20] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I'd be happy with being able to just duct tape our current light and heavy weapons onto the front/side of dropships. Like, a mass driver turret for the missiles, a RR for the rails, and an assault rifle for the blaster except that they do a ton more damage to vehicles. Or swarms. Being able to have a lock-on turret would be cool. or you know, laser rifle turrets... At this point having an AR mounted on a vehicle would be more effective. I remember the way Blasters were back in the old days, back when I was in PRO (around 2012 I think) The Blaster had just enough dispersion to be somewhat decent and enough firepower to be a Light Attack Vehicle and enough splash to be a hit and run turret on vehicles as well. The Scattered Blaster of the old, old days was in no way perfect, but it was the best version of the blasters this game ever had. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15552	Posted - 2014.06.20 15:28:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. Not to sound contrary but firing anything from a moving vehicle is sort of a pain in the [redacted]. Give a small missile turret a shot on a moving HAV sometime Oh I know, I was murdering people on a speedboat with a LMG in BF4 and thinking, why is this so easy and stabilized IRL its gyro stabs usually. Something modern tanks have over most of the second rate russian tanks whom has to sit still then fire. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1570	Posted - 2014.06.20 19:28:00 - [22] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. I used to be able to get maybe four or five kills a game in my Incubus with a Neutron as my front turret. After 5 matches yesterday I just gave up with only two kills. A few things I noticed before the changes: When I did actually manage to hit what I was aiming for, and the shots were detected I would melt suits. Poor hit detection caused a lot of misses (Hit markers + 'Shield flares' with no damage dealt) Hit detection was worse so on the side turrets and much worse while moving at all After I am able, with the front turret to hit more shots but doing less damage overall. Much easier for side gunner to get kills. Requires me to hover 10-30 meters above the target to do enough damage to kill things Because of the dispersion when you do shoot from further than ~25 meters a very large porton of the shots miss even while aiming directly at the targets center mass. A quick suggestion: Would it be possible to have the dispersion be reduced a fair amount while aiming down sights? yeah if aiming down the sights tightened the spread like it does with hmg it may be more viable
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3882	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:32:00 - [23] - Quote Honestly CCP, if you could find a way to back track your steps all the way to chromosome you'd have a point of reference. For some reason Scattered Blasters worked and well. I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 602	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:43:00 - [24] - Quote Would it be advantageous to implement two variants of all turrets to try out some numbers? That way, instead of discussing things on a theoretical basis, we could just try out some stuff and deliver first-hand experience. For blasters there could be a low-DPS low-dispersion high-range variant (comparable to the "scattered" variant of old) For missiles there could be a low-DPS high-projectile-speed variant (-> "accelerated", I think) For railguns there could be a low-ROF high-damage variant with additional DPS (to be used on mostly static platforms, the current variant could have it's dispersion increased a bit then to diminish the anti-infantry usage) Each with identical fitting requirements, just slightly adjusted values.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3882	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:48:00 - [25] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: For blasters there could be a low-DPS low-dispersion high-range variant (comparable to the "scattered" variant of old) . That is not correct The scattered blaster had a higher damage, same RoF, less range The Compressed had higher damage, lower RoF, higher heat per second Stabilized had higher CPU/PG costs, higher range That is comparable to the Compressed I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1566	Posted - 2014.06.20 21:35:00 - [26] - Quote copied from this forum topic. To be continued here since it already has a blue tag. NEW GROUND VEHICLE VIDEO ADS VIDEO!!! UPDATE 2: New video demonstrates how it's functioning from a ground vehicle. Many many shots miss due to the lack of the "cloud of bullets". Aiming still seems very focused on being "middle dot centric", The end problem I think Lies in the accuracy rating. That has to be lowered in order fr the damage to be applied in the "cone of death" I hope these videos have been helpful in pinpointing the slight problems that still persist with the turret. UPDATE: "cloud of bullets missing" accuracy rating might be the issue. It's still too high. As was with the HMG to do any damage you have to be dead center on the dot still with small blasters. Hello guys During the day after hotfix beta came out I tested the small blaster turret on the front. Since the aiming mechanism was sort of broken I wrote it off till it got fixed in hotfix beta 1.1 a day later. Now I have footage of how it's working with a fully specced gallente Assault dropship. The answer to how it functions is not that good at the moment although I thinks it's headed in the right direction. CCP Rattati wrote: the dispersion was meant to help on LAV and DS drivebys, by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot, which I think everyone agrees is literally impossible on a moving LAV. The reticule was fixed during DT, so please continue testing this, I think it may be offputting at first, but I want players to give it some more time before writing it off. With CCP rattati's concept in mind I will try to explain how the turret can get better: Purpose of the turret: With long range anti vehicle and anti infantry in the bag with small missile and small rails, short range anti infantry falls in the hands of the small blaster turret. THE PROBLEM SPREAD: The spread on the blaster turret becomes too big to be functional. Even at a mere 20 meters (with ADS and side mounted) the target is too small in comparison with the reticule. ACCURACY: As was with the HMG where it was too accurate (video of how it used to be) for it's intended purpose, so is the small blaster. The small blaster retains too much accuracy rating for the amount of spread it currently has and the amount of spread it should have. THE FIX SPREAD: The fix to the spread is as simple as doing a hard reduce of it but; some ideas come to mind when making this HMG type reticule actually work and here is a few of the iideas: Eliminate the spread increase while firing and make it function like the hmg where it actually reduces the spread or make the spread static; it's large enough as is or make a sharpshooter skill that reduces spread (10% per level should be a minimum) or eliminate the incubus 5% per level to ammo and change it to 10% per level to spread ACCURACY: The simplicity of fixing this so that it functions like more of a driveby device is simple. reduce the accuracy to below 20 and you will have the "cloud" of bullets that is necessary for drivebys. The curent HMG accuracy rating is 38.99 but with a moving vehicle it should be less. This coupled with a small spread and the already increased rate of fire should be enough to make it viable CCP Rattati wrote: ...by making the stream of bullets a cloud of damage instead of having to have pin point accuracy on the dot... Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Grimmiers 595	Posted - 2014.06.20 21:36:00 - [27] - Quote I think the problem with hitting targets while moving is partly due to the slow tracking speed of the weapon. The blaster should have a much higher speed by default being that it's a close range Ai weapon. Also the current spread is meant for a weapon that has a range of 20 meters. The dispersion should max out after firing aound 20~30 bullets and start out a bit smaller.
Leovarian L Lavitz Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 1097	Posted - 2014.06.21 05:22:00 - [28] - Quote Reduce the radius of the spread by 50%. Just tested, it's garbage at killing at over 20m. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6114	Posted - 2014.06.21 05:48:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Since you are testing, can you try firing at the ground as well. There is supposed to be a small splash that was added some time ago, but never advertised. Tested it again tonight, didn't even take long to reach the conclusion that the aim at ground or at least around does not work either. It's just too dispersed. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 149	Posted - 2014.06.21 08:00:00 - [30] - Quote I have an idea remove the reload on small blaster turrets make it the only turret that doesn't have to reload let it over heat replace the reload speed with cooldown. Increase the range give the dropship turret bonus to Lavs and (except fire rate)HAVs. I'm assuming the fire rate is 1200 rpm the intervals are .05 so 60 seconds divided by .05 is 1200. I say bring it down to 650 rpm and increase the range to 300 meters this would make it utterly ridiculous to use to attack vehicles but will make it far more accurate and effective towards infantry. It's fire rate is slightly above the Tac Ar less damage but more overtime and will have far more range. At 650 rpm with the 10% boost from skills 588 dps compared to a previous 988 dps. Now lets add the fire rate boost 50% 975 rpm 883 dps. Its a nerf to damage done but you're actually hitting your target. Add a 15% damage mod because I doubt you could fit the 20% on a lav 1015 dps. Six Kin burst does 1401 dps with no damage mods Boundless does 910 dps Freedom Assault 728 dps Now due to the fragility of these vehicles it would more than likely be used in a burst. Its not op its far more accurate than an HMG that's being carried by a clone which should make sense. Ok so now you're all probably wondering how does it compare to the large blaster the large blaster has a 600 rpm with a 1365 dps maxed out the turret would do 350 less dps than a large Ion cannon with no damage mods and this is with damage mods activated on the small blaster. So its 482 Dps less than a large ion cannon with no damage mods. Lets keep in mind these numbers do not account for overheat or reload and if you've piloted a blaster tank you know that the overheat will come before you have to reload so having no reload on the small blaster is not an issue the faster fire rate will cause it to over heat faster than a large blaster.



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