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I just worked out the REAL problem with Alpha...

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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5574	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:07:00 - [1] - Quote Hotfix Alpha is increasing tier advantages. Everyone is calling for tiericide to try and end Protostomping, and Alpha is going against the GOOD trends we've had leading towards it. Locus Grenade buff at Prototype level, and nerf to lower levels. This means that low-tier grenades are weaker than they were, AND Proto grenades are stronger than they were. This means Protostomping players have a larger advantage than they used to. Cloaks were going to have their dampening bonus removed completely, but that got changed. Now, instead of removing the bonus from ALL cloaks, they only removed it from Standard, and reduced it significantly on the others. Once again, the Protostompers are being given more advantages to make their lives easier while simultaneously making it harder for the low-level players to compete. Prototype gear is meant to be a SMALL advantage for a LARGE cost. The risk-reward balance is meant to encourage players to only run one or two Protosuits in a match, unless it's a crucial win for a PC battle or something. Wealthy Corporations will fund their players to fight in Proto gear to have that tiny bit of an edge which may be just enough to tip the balance. Pub players will run lower-end gear and rely on their higher SKILLS to make up the difference rather than crushing everything because their equipment is simply that much better. Or they'll run a handful of Proto items on a Standard/Advanced fitting so they get a smaller edge without the massive cost. But then, how do you encourage players to skill into a grenadier role and specialise? Or how do you give incentives for players to train up their cloaking skill and specialise? At the moment, most people are relying most of the time on the lower-tier cloaks because pre-Alpha, they worked well enough to fill their role, and now they don't and neither do even the high-end versions. DO WHAT I SUGGESTED PREVIOUSLY for cloaks, and nerf the dampening bonus from the original to 10 or 15% ACROSS THE BOARD. Give cloaks a more useful bonus for skill training, because at present, their NOT GETTING ANYTHING BUT UNLOCKS doesn't encourage people to skill into Proto. Or even better, give cloaks a 5% dampening bonus as a baseline, and have the cloak skill increase that by 2% per level. As for Grenades, revert to pre-Alpha stats, but give a meaningful bonus to grenade skills. Another option would be to buff ALL grenades slightly (but keep them in line with their pre-Alpha stats for tier progression) with higher damage and blast radius, but make them inflict friendly fire damage ALL THE TIME. Then have a 5 to 10% friendly fire damage reduction for explosives skill and explain it off with some magical lore-based hand-waving that means the blast of the grenade can be shaped by the user to focus it away from allies and the degree by which this happens is dependent on how good the user is at manipulating the shrapnel patterns.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13766	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:14:00 - [2] - Quote The locus changes seem completely unnecessary. I have cores. They're already -really- damn powerful. There's no need to make them even more nuclear whilst making the lower tier ones wimpy firecrackers. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 648	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:16:00 - [3] - Quote Good points but wrong forum. You need to speak logic somewhere that people will actually understand it. PS; the player makes the suit, the suit doesn't make the player. I'll stand by this until the very end.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13767	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:20:00 - [4] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Good points but wrong forum. You need to speak logic somewhere that people will actually understand it. PS; the player makes the suit, the suit doesn't make the player. I'll stand by this until the very end. But the suit will augment the player very, very strongly. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
killertojo42 G0DS AM0NG MEN 42	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:27:00 - [5] - Quote All i see here is the age old problem of dust, skills or gear what should matter more, if you say skills than older players will always massively outdo new players but make equipment be the focus and anyone willing to put in the time becomes even in a fight but few are willing and mind you, few were aroumd during this time but proto gear used to be nearly unstoppable and i keep hearing all the scrubs complain, lol When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Final Resolution. 1920	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:29:00 - [6] - Quote The change to Armor Repairers is the one that you should focus on. Basic: 2 -> 2.5 (25% increase) Advanced: 3 -> 5 (66.7% increase) Complex: 5 -> 7.5 (50% increase) It is that exact reasoning that has Shield Extenders being completely terrible for defensive purposes unless it is Complex (aside from the ludicrous fitting cost) "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5574	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:55:00 - [7] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: The change to Armor Repairers is the one that you should focus on. Basic: 2 -> 2.5 (25% increase) Advanced: 3 -> 5 (66.7% increase) Complex: 5 -> 7.5 (50% increase) It is that exact reasoning that has Shield Extenders being completely terrible for defensive purposes unless it is Complex (aside from the ludicrous fitting cost) This is another negative example, thank you. The reason I used the examples I chose was because they're the examples where the problem is already under active discussion on the front page of the forum. People are calling for tiericide, and CCP are throwing the EXACT OPPOSITE at us instead.
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1294	Posted - 2014.05.27 09:22:00 - [8] - Quote I still think tiercide would make the ground game boring, like it has for vehicles.
Marc Rime 405	Posted - 2014.05.27 09:44:00 - [9] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone is calling for tiericide Not true. And anyway, even those who do call for it don't always agree on what it actually means.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5574	Posted - 2014.05.27 09:47:00 - [10] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone is calling for tiericide Not true. And anyway, even those who do call for it don't always agree on what it actually means. It was an exaggeration, but it's a pretty common thing for many people in the community to be asking for. And everyone agrees protostomping is bad, and buffing Prototype gear while nerfing the rest is very clearly NOT going to help with that.

I-Shayz-I I-----I 3473	Posted - 2014.05.27 12:14:00 - [11] - Quote um Do you not realize that proto cloaks are REALLY DAMN HARD TO FIT? If someone is using a proto cloak just for that small dampening bonus, they're sacrificing a TON of fitting space just to do so. It's to prevent players from just using basic cloaks to do everything they'll ever need. It's the same thing with the plate rebalance. An increase of the plate cost from 1 pg to 3 and the increase of movement speed penalty means that the advanced and proto plates will look more appealing comparatively. As for grenades...same reason again. They're nerfing the lower tier ones in hopes that players will actually skill into higher tiers instead of just relying on the basic ones. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1043	Posted - 2014.05.27 12:40:00 - [12] - Quote It's true that the change to armor reppers and grenades and grenades favour protostomping. The change to locus grenades is baffling. Nobody has ever complained of core locus grenades being weak, and standard grenades were in a really good spot.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1774	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:23:00 - [13] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Marc Rime wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone is calling for tiericide Not true. And anyway, even those who do call for it don't always agree on what it actually means. It was an exaggeration, but it's a pretty common thing for many people in the community to be asking for. And everyone agrees protostomping is bad, and buffing Prototype gear while nerfing the rest is very clearly NOT going to help with that. CCP could just simply lower the price of proto suits to make them much more affordable to everyone else. Proto dropsuits gain a lot of power, but also cost too much, allowing only the rich to spam proto and protostomp while the other team can only afford standard and advanced. Make proto suits much cheaper. More people can use proto suits on the field. A counter to protostomps. Fight fire with fire. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15208	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:26:00 - [14] - Quote A dust 514 tiericide at the moment feels way entirely outside of the scope of the team's capabilities. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
xAckie Ghost. Mob 426	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:34:00 - [15] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Marc Rime wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone is calling for tiericide Not true. And anyway, even those who do call for it don't always agree on what it actually means. It was an exaggeration, but it's a pretty common thing for many people in the community to be asking for. And everyone agrees protostomping is bad, and buffing Prototype gear while nerfing the rest is very clearly NOT going to help with that. CCP could just simply lower the price of proto suits to make them much more affordable to everyone else. Proto dropsuits gain a lot of power, but also cost too much, allowing only the rich to spam proto and protostomp while the other team can only afford standard and advanced. Make proto suits much cheaper. More people can use proto suits on the field. A counter to protostomps. Fight fire with fire. +1 this is one way CCP can introduce a form of tiercide with current resources.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1775	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:37:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: A dust 514 tiericide at the moment feels way entirely outside of the scope of the team's capabilities. The only tiericide we need is to remove dropsuit tiers and make them all equivalent to the current proto suits, unlocked at level 1 of the appropriate skill. Then the skill should be reworked to provide some skill to the suit, just like every ship operation skill does in EVE. The skill bonuses would be easy: just take the racial assault bonuses and apply those to the regular suits, then give assaults a defensive bonus in addition to the fitting reduction bonus on weapons. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 764	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:35:00 - [17] - Quote Flyingconejo wrote: It's true that the change to armor reppers and grenades and grenades favour protostomping. The change to locus grenades is baffling. Nobody has ever complained of core locus grenades being weak, and standard grenades were in a really good spot. It totally runs counter to the idea of diminishing returns which us essential to contol protostomping.Both SP and ISK expenditure should gain you advantage but at each level the cost should rise exponentially while the benefit increases linearly. This change breaks that mechanic. Because, that's why.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2665	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:38:00 - [18] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The locus changes seem completely unnecessary. I have cores. They're already -really- damn powerful. There's no need to make them even more nuclear whilst making the lower tier ones wimpy firecrackers. This. I STILL don't understand why they keep nerfing them. First, you take away 1 of everything, then you take away damage from the lower tier ones? Wat?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15210	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:41:00 - [19] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: A dust 514 tiericide at the moment feels way entirely outside of the scope of the team's capabilities. The only tiericide we need is to remove dropsuit tiers and make them all equivalent to the current proto suits, unlocked at level 1 of the appropriate skill. Then the skill should be reworked to provide some skill to the suit, just like every ship operation skill does in EVE. The skill bonuses would be easy: just take the racial assault bonuses and apply those to the regular suits, then give assaults a defensive bonus in addition to the fitting reduction bonus on weapons. Like I said it seems out of the scope of the team's capabilities. Remember they're nailing low hanging fruit and burning through a massive list of problems they can hotfix in the game. A regenerative list mind you. Maybe once they ran out of things to do then we can talk teiricide. You also have to greatly consider that our economy is built around our current idea of how we do things so any kind of tiericide will require a massive economic tweak in FW, PC, and Pubs. And unlike eve a tiericide in dust 514 has to be done in one feel swoop across the entire board in one go for infantry. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2665	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:42:00 - [20] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Marc Rime wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone is calling for tiericide Not true. And anyway, even those who do call for it don't always agree on what it actually means. It was an exaggeration, but it's a pretty common thing for many people in the community to be asking for. And everyone agrees protostomping is bad, and buffing Prototype gear while nerfing the rest is very clearly NOT going to help with that. CCP could just simply lower the price of proto suits to make them much more affordable to everyone else. Proto dropsuits gain a lot of power, but also cost too much, allowing only the rich to spam proto and protostomp while the other team can only afford standard and advanced. Make proto suits much cheaper. More people can use proto suits on the field. A counter to protostomps. Fight fire with fire. Haha no. If you budget and are actually good, you can but plenty of proto suits. I bought 70 copies of a fully fitted proto Scout my first time. Costed about 99k though. Pretty cheap for a proto fit, but i bought 70 lol and that was from running STD all the time.

THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. 855	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:46:00 - [21] - Quote I really don't see why people think "protostomping" is a problem. The difference between my prototype fits and advanced fits are usually ~50-150HP, a slightly better weapon and depending on the suit better equipment. If you're unable to kill me in my prototype suit there's a very small chance that me being ADV will give you much more of an edge. Tiercide player skill CCP, that'll teach them protostompers for being better! Feel free to check out my website for some lulz :D \| TDBS
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 306	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:57:00 - [22] - Quote I haven't studied the Alpha hotfix in great detail, but I agree that anything that increases the disparity between standard and proto gear is a bad idea, and will only kill the game faster. It's already hard to retain new players. Please think carefully about increasing veteran player advantages. Full tiericide may be beyond the scope of the Dust 514 balance team, but lets not introduce greater imbalance. Surviving Dust: Tutorial Series
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 745	Posted - 2014.05.27 15:25:00 - [23] - Quote alten hilt wrote: It's already hard to retain new players. New players? AHAHAHAH. This game was barely getting looks before fanfest.. who wants to start a game based on building your character over time when, well they dont have much time left... I don't think dust needs to worry about new players anymore. How about retaining the players who are still here. Now thats a goal to strive for. Thanks man. I had my laugh for the day. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 449	Posted - 2014.05.27 17:05:00 - [24] - Quote alten hilt wrote: I haven't studied the Alpha hotfix in great detail, but I agree that anything that increases the disparity between standard and proto gear is a bad idea, and will only kill the game faster. It's already hard to retain new players. Please think carefully about increasing veteran player advantages. Full tiericide may be beyond the scope of the Dust 514 balance team, but lets not introduce greater imbalance. Totally agree. It seems the fanfest announcement has not only apparently served to throw away 18 months of feedback and ppls time and dedication, but it's also now causing new ideas to be cooked up that go against the grain of some of those earlier ideas. Why on earth CCP need to ask for new feedback when they've reams and reams of feedback from a larger (and dare I say it less disillusioned) playerbase I don't know. Christ the low-hanging fruit appears quite rotten IMHO. Still without the vision CCP. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1778	Posted - 2014.05.27 18:04:00 - [25] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I really don't see why people think "protostomping" is a problem. The difference between my prototype fits and advanced fits are usually ~50-150HP, a slightly better weapon and depending on the suit better equipment. If you're unable to kill me in my prototype suit there's a very small chance that me being ADV will give you much more of an edge. Tiercide player skill CCP, that'll teach them protostompers for being better! Hmmm. Going ADV->PRO for me gives me 200 EHP more. Which is almost a 33% boost. And there have been countless amounts of times that I needed just that much more EHP to finish off my opponent or successfully run away. But sadly I'm sitting on a mere 3 million and it's going neither up or down while running advanced, so I cannot afford proto suits to give me the edge, either in combat or for running away. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 571	Posted - 2014.05.27 18:09:00 - [26] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The locus changes seem completely unnecessary. I have cores. They're already -really- damn powerful. There's no need to make them even more nuclear whilst making the lower tier ones wimpy firecrackers. It is an attempt to force people to skill into grenades aka keep buying boosters. Hopefully people go for it otherwise we are going to see more and more things getting DUMPED on at basic level and amazing at proto level. This is what happens when CCP can only make changes to the numbers and not add totally new FOTMs to drain SP. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 307	Posted - 2014.05.27 19:12:00 - [27] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: alten hilt wrote: It's already hard to retain new players. New players? AHAHAHAH. This game was barely getting looks before fanfest.. who wants to start a game based on building your character over time when, well they dont have much time left... I don't think dust needs to worry about new players anymore. How about retaining the players who are still here. Now thats a goal to strive for. Thanks man. I had my laugh for the day. I know it seems like DUST 514 has no new players, but this simply isn't true. I've spent a lot of time recently in Academy battles recording footage for my Youtube tutorial series, and there's still are a lot of new players trying DUST 514. The problem is that they don't stick around longer than a few matches. Two main reasons (IMHO) 1. They are getting farmed in the Academy by veteran players creating disposable alts. 2. After their first two or three battles, they REALLY get farmed by the rest of the community, and it doesn't get better for 3 - 6 months. It takes close to 10 matches for new players to earn enough ISK to meaningfully spend their 500k starting SP, and most give up in frustration before they ever reach that point. SPOILER: Personal opinions follow!!! If Dust is going to keep its equipment tiers, standard gear should be 85% as effective as Proto-gear, with Advanced gear around 95%. Said another way, proto gear should only be 5% more effective than advanced gear and 15% more effective than standard gear. FPS games aren't supposed to give any player an artificial advantage over another. It's supposed to be a level playing field where player skill triumphs. This is what new players expect when they try out DUST 514, because it's the foundation of every other FPS game. Surviving Dust: Tutorial Series
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5587	Posted - 2014.05.27 19:29:00 - [28] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: I really don't see why people think "protostomping" is a problem. The difference between my prototype fits and advanced fits are usually ~50-150HP, a slightly better weapon and depending on the suit better equipment. So slightly more HP, meaning maybe 3 or 4 more shots to kill you, meaning probably almost a full second extra for you to return fire. And slightly more damage output, meaning that each hit you land on the target will hurt them more, making the additional survival time you get from the extra HP even more valuable. And better equipment, which might mean you're supporting teammates better and making them more of a threat as well, or could simply mean you get a little more ammo and a few more grenades, meaning you can keep fighting at full strength for longer than a non-Prototype fitting. Quote: If you're unable to kill me in my prototype suit there's a very small chance that me being ADV will give you much more of an edge. Unless they're only slightly more skilled than you, but forced to run in lower-tier gear because they don't have the SP or ISK to back that skill (yet), in which case, they would have a close fight against you in your Advanced suits, but your Proto fittings give you JUST enough of an edge to tip the balance in your favour. Also, unless they have tactical advantage but less player skill, in which case your superior gear combined with individual skill allows you to negate the enemy's better positioning and coordination, whereas having Advanced gear would leave you just vulnerable enough to be taken down with good planning. Quote: Tiercide player skill CCP, that'll teach them protostompers for being better! Players who don't have real skill at the game almost never have the ISK to burn on Proto gear anyway, so they aren't the ones protostomping even when they have the SP to do so.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 793	Posted - 2014.05.27 20:12:00 - [29] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Good points but wrong forum. You need to speak logic somewhere that people will actually understand it. PS; the player makes the suit, the suit doesn't make the player. I'll stand by this until the very end. I'm sorry, but there are several suits that you can be absolute **** in, and own anyone who comes your way. The most prominent of which is one of the Prototype sentinel suits ....... strap on 1300 armor and 400 shield, then fight indoors near a supply depot, and nobody is going to kill you, even if two people snuck up from behind with fully maxed nova knives and a shotty AT THE SAME TIME. I dropped trio of remotes to finally kill the guy in the end.. (3600 damage) His score was 33/2 (first death was in a regular suit, cause I killed him, second he was in proto the rest of the game) He was a horrible shot, but the proto gear made it so that the slightest clip was a kill. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust, theme
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 757	Posted - 2014.05.27 20:19:00 - [30] - Quote alten hilt wrote: P14GU3 wrote: alten hilt wrote: It's already hard to retain new players. New players? AHAHAHAH. This game was barely getting looks before fanfest.. who wants to start a game based on building your character over time when, well they dont have much time left... I don't think dust needs to worry about new players anymore. How about retaining the players who are still here. Now thats a goal to strive for. Thanks man. I had my laugh for the day. I know it seems like DUST 514 has no new players, but this simply isn't true. I've spent a lot of time recently in Academy battles recording footage for my Youtube tutorial series, and there's still are a lot of new players trying DUST 514. The problem is that they don't stick around longer than a few matches. Two main reasons (IMHO) 1. They are getting farmed in the Academy by veteran players creating disposable alts. 2. After their first two or three battles, they REALLY get farmed by the rest of the community, and it doesn't get better for 3 - 6 months. It takes close to 10 matches for new players to earn enough ISK to meaningfully spend their 500k starting SP, and most give up in frustration before they ever reach that point. SPOILER: Personal opinions follow!!! If Dust is going to keep its equipment tiers, standard gear should be 85% as effective as Proto-gear, with Advanced gear around 95%. Said another way, proto gear should only be 5% more effective than advanced gear and 15% more effective than standard gear. FPS games aren't supposed to give any player an artificial advantage over another. It's supposed to be a level playing field where player skill triumphs. This is what new players expect when they try out DUST 514, because it's the foundation of every other FPS game. Dont mean to sound like a prick, but the community has been over this many times. Ccp knows exactly what they need to do. The issue is, its a double edge sword. They need to extend the academy, to say 2m sp before graduation. Then give them a respec upon graduation. CCP has already stated, they CANNOT do this. The player count is just to low. Everyone will be playing half empty battles, both academy and pubs, which in turn forces people to leave. Dust is just in a really bad place. This is exactly why ccp decided to scrap and and start fresh with legion. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 548	Posted - 2014.05.27 20:35:00 - [31] - Quote I opened a thread on the issue a couple of days ago here where I even gave some examples of new module stats. In my opinion the scaling between tiers of equipment should be reduced rather than increased. It's Dust's only avenue towards better gameplay, given the current way that matchmaking works.
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1002	Posted - 2014.05.27 20:37:00 - [32] - Quote Flyingconejo wrote: It's true that the change to armor reppers and grenades and grenades favour protostomping. The change to locus grenades is baffling. Nobody has ever complained of core locus grenades being weak, and standard grenades were in a really good spot. Umm, that's kinda the point - STD and ADV got nerfed, while proto remains the same - not a buff in sight.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1677	Posted - 2014.05.27 20:50:00 - [33] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: alten hilt wrote: P14GU3 wrote: alten hilt wrote: It's already hard to retain new players. New players? AHAHAHAH. This game was barely getting looks before fanfest.. who wants to start a game based on building your character over time when, well they dont have much time left... I don't think dust needs to worry about new players anymore. How about retaining the players who are still here. Now thats a goal to strive for. Thanks man. I had my laugh for the day. I know it seems like DUST 514 has no new players, but this simply isn't true. I've spent a lot of time recently in Academy battles recording footage for my Youtube tutorial series, and there's still are a lot of new players trying DUST 514. The problem is that they don't stick around longer than a few matches. Two main reasons (IMHO) 1. They are getting farmed in the Academy by veteran players creating disposable alts. 2. After their first two or three battles, they REALLY get farmed by the rest of the community, and it doesn't get better for 3 - 6 months. It takes close to 10 matches for new players to earn enough ISK to meaningfully spend their 500k starting SP, and most give up in frustration before they ever reach that point. SPOILER: Personal opinions follow!!! If Dust is going to keep its equipment tiers, standard gear should be 85% as effective as Proto-gear, with Advanced gear around 95%. Said another way, proto gear should only be 5% more effective than advanced gear and 15% more effective than standard gear. FPS games aren't supposed to give any player an artificial advantage over another. It's supposed to be a level playing field where player skill triumphs. This is what new players expect when they try out DUST 514, because it's the foundation of every other FPS game. Dont mean to sound like a prick, but the community has been over this many times. Ccp knows exactly what they need to do. The issue is, its a double edge sword. They need to extend the academy, to say 2m sp before graduation. Then give them a respec upon graduation. CCP has already stated, they CANNOT do this. The player count is just to low. Everyone will be playing half empty battles, both academy and pubs, which in turn forces people to leave. Dust is just in a really bad place. This is exactly why ccp decided to scrap and and start fresh with legion. I agree with you, but you left out the part where Dust is in a really bad place because CCP sucks at making video games :D If they had put out a product worth marketing at launch then you all probably wouldn't be in such a bad way here at the end of this pony's miserable life. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
PLAYSTTION Universal Allies Inc. 140	Posted - 2014.05.27 20:53:00 - [34] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Good points but wrong forum. You need to speak logic somewhere that people will actually understand it. PS; the player makes the suit, the suit doesn't make the player. I'll stand by this until the very end. the grenade aint a part of the suit. if it can't kill someone even though you have the best aim its the grenades fault 44/4 in a BPO Scout 40/5 in a Proto Assault Open Beta Vet 22mil sp R.I.P Dust 514
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 760	Posted - 2014.05.27 20:54:00 - [35] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: P14GU3 wrote: alten hilt wrote: P14GU3 wrote: alten hilt wrote: It's already hard to retain new players. New players? AHAHAHAH. This game was barely getting looks before fanfest.. who wants to start a game based on building your character over time when, well they dont have much time left... I don't think dust needs to worry about new players anymore. How about retaining the players who are still here. Now thats a goal to strive for. Thanks man. I had my laugh for the day. I know it seems like DUST 514 has no new players, but this simply isn't true. I've spent a lot of time recently in Academy battles recording footage for my Youtube tutorial series, and there's still are a lot of new players trying DUST 514. The problem is that they don't stick around longer than a few matches. Two main reasons (IMHO) 1. They are getting farmed in the Academy by veteran players creating disposable alts. 2. After their first two or three battles, they REALLY get farmed by the rest of the community, and it doesn't get better for 3 - 6 months. It takes close to 10 matches for new players to earn enough ISK to meaningfully spend their 500k starting SP, and most give up in frustration before they ever reach that point. SPOILER: Personal opinions follow!!! If Dust is going to keep its equipment tiers, standard gear should be 85% as effective as Proto-gear, with Advanced gear around 95%. Said another way, proto gear should only be 5% more effective than advanced gear and 15% more effective than standard gear. FPS games aren't supposed to give any player an artificial advantage over another. It's supposed to be a level playing field where player skill triumphs. This is what new players expect when they try out DUST 514, because it's the foundation of every other FPS game. Dont mean to sound like a prick, but the community has been over this many times. Ccp knows exactly what they need to do. The issue is, its a double edge sword. They need to extend the academy, to say 2m sp before graduation. Then give them a respec upon graduation. CCP has already stated, they CANNOT do this. The player count is just to low. Everyone will be playing half empty battles, both academy and pubs, which in turn forces people to leave. Dust is just in a really bad place. This is exactly why ccp decided to scrap and and start fresh with legion. I agree with you, but you left out the part where Dust is in a really bad place because CCP sucks at making video games :D If they had put out a product worth marketing at launch then you all probably wouldn't be in such a bad way here at the end of this pony's miserable life. I never said legion would be any better. I just said dust was in a bad place, so they decided to start over. Just because you redo the same project with a little more experience doesnt make you competant... I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1305	Posted - 2014.05.27 22:49:00 - [36] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: A dust 514 tiericide at the moment feels way entirely outside of the scope of the team's capabilities. The only tiericide we need is to remove dropsuit tiers and make them all equivalent to the current proto suits, unlocked at level 1 of the appropriate skill. Then the skill should be reworked to provide some skill to the suit, just like every ship operation skill does in EVE. The skill bonuses would be easy: just take the racial assault bonuses and apply those to the regular suits, then give assaults a defensive bonus in addition to the fitting reduction bonus on weapons. Exactly this, this is what I fear. Soooooo boring.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3154	Posted - 2014.05.27 23:05:00 - [37] - Quote Hail proto! I shall enslave n00bs with my superior gear.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 655	Posted - 2014.05.28 00:13:00 - [38] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: A dust 514 tiericide at the moment feels way entirely outside of the scope of the team's capabilities. When wasn't it outside of the scope of the teams capabilities? We've been asking for it since beta. They couldn't/wouldn't do it then, why would they do it now? I don't ever mean to be a dolt towards you, Iron Wolf Saber, but you always come in with "Captain Obvious" responses to things. I guess at least you actually post unlike most of the devs and other CPMs...


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