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Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition Red Whines. 235	Posted - 2014.05.27 01:57:00 - [1] - Quote I think its universally agreed that sniping in dust is pretty crappy looking from either side of the scope :D......... my proposals are made to discourage redline sniping while making sniping much more effective.... 1. Changes to clip size...... Currently there are 3 sniper variants The tactical variant - 3 rounds in a clip The charge variant - 5 rounds a clip The standard variant - 5 rounds in a clip proposed changes The charge variant - 3 rounds a clip The standard variant - 4 rounds in a clip The tactical variant - 5 rounds in a clip 2. Headshot Multiplier Currently in game there is a 195% headshot multiplier........ " In my personal experience its a lot faster and easier to line up two body shots than one headshot "...... there should be a higher head shot multiplier 250% would offer more incentive to line up headshots 3. Range Currently sniper riffles have an effective and absolute range from [1- 599]m this means there is no reason other than vantage or over watch "mind you these are pretty big reasons" for a sniper to leave the redline.... but if the effective range of a sniper was [1-200]m tapering off to 60% at 300m .... and had an absolute range of 600m 4. Scope Sway Reduce scope sway by (10-15)% across all tiers and remove the reset while strafing..... and have a more consistent hip fire 5. Damage/Rate of fire Current model The charge variant - 50 rpm (higher damage) The standard variant - 50 rpm (moderate damage) The tactical variant - 100 rpm (lower damage) Proposed Changes The charge variant - 50 rpm (higher damage * 10%) The standard variant - 75 rpm (moderate damage * 10%) The tactical variant - 125 rpm (lower damage * 5%) "the damage/rate of fire changes are to balance the proposed range changes and make the sniper rifles more competitive" Final thoughts..... These changes would not only make true snipers much more effective but would drastically hinder redline snipers... it would allow snipers to get closer to the battle without encouraging too much quick scoping(YOLO 360 no scopes FTW).... allowing snipers to either follow behind a squad or support from a distance :D so commandos are good now O_o
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8881	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:03:00 - [2] - Quote Posting this here before Anti-Sniper extremists inevitably resort to using fallacies to support uneducated arguments. Association \| Straw Man \| Toup+¬e HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition Red Whines. 235	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:05:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: Posting this here before Anti-Sniper extremists resort to using fallacies. I don't see how Ive addressed redline sniping and the damage is bonuses are so small.......... but they will find a way Association \| Straw Man \| Toup+¬e so commandos are good now O_o
LegacyofTable Planetary Response Organisation FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 9	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:06:00 - [4] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: 3. Range Currently sniper riffles have an effective and absolute range from [1- 599]m this means there is no reason other than vantage or over watch "mind you these are pretty big reasons" for a sniper to leave the redline.... but if the effective range of a sniper was [1-200]m tapering off to 60% at 300m .... and had an absolute range of 600m (YOLO 360 no scopes FTW) No. Never. You people saying "nerf the range omg too op" need to stop. Snipers are meant to have long range, get over it. And as to the reduction of dmg past 200-300m, get out. The description says it fires at 2,500m/s, so it wouldn't lose dmg over a bigger range ever. And as to the "Yolo 360 no scopes" please go back to COD. Licensed Thales Hunter Total Thales taken - 5
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 986	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:15:00 - [5] - Quote I think you hit on some if the technical things, good job there. Sniping in Dust is just horribly done. It's super weak and is nothing to be feared, but on the flipside it's basically no risk/skill to be good. It's an odd dichotomy. First thing you have to deal with is the giant elephant in the room, the redline. It either needs done away with (which brings it's own problems) or Snipers have to have limited range (your numbers are fine.) I think also you have to bring something to sniping beyond killing. Right now if you see 2 snipers on your team you can pretty much gurantee you lost or will lose the match just because you lost feet on the ground. Sniping needs to play a role in EWAR. They need to be the scouts who check things out from far away and then communicate with their team. They shouldn't be as effective as scouts or Active scanners but they have range advantage. Perhaps if the have scope on someone they get info, like you get when you are close enough and put sights over someone. Maybe they go a step further and get info on weapon. Or maybe when they have sights on someone it shows up on radar for your squad (must keep sights on for like 3 secs.) But only on that one guy. Or maybe they have jammers that when they have sights on someone their tacnet is knocked out. Again just that one guy.
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition Red Whines. 237	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:16:00 - [6] - Quote LegacyofTable wrote: No. Never. You people saying "nerf the range omg too op" need to stop. Snipers are meant to have long range, get over it. And as to the reduction of dmg past 200-300m, get out. The description says it fires at 2,500m/s, so it wouldn't lose dmg over a bigger range ever. And as to the "Yolo 360 no scopes" please go back to COD. I honestly could care less about the range .... but that is the best way to fix redline snipers w/o breaking the redline... don't get hung up of the descriptions if the were accurate to the in game mechanics snipers would be 1 shotting tanks.... and the "Yolo 360 no scopes" was a joke sarcasms kinda hard with text so commandos are good now O_o
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 329	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:30:00 - [7] - Quote LegacyofTable wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: 3. Range Currently sniper riffles have an effective and absolute range from [1- 599]m this means there is no reason other than vantage or over watch "mind you these are pretty big reasons" for a sniper to leave the redline.... but if the effective range of a sniper was [1-200]m tapering off to 60% at 300m .... and had an absolute range of 600m (YOLO 360 no scopes FTW) No. Never. You people saying "nerf the range omg too op" need to stop. Snipers are meant to have long range, get over it. And as to the reduction of dmg past 200-300m, get out. The description says it fires at 2,500m/s, so it wouldn't lose dmg over a bigger range ever. And as to the "Yolo 360 no scopes" please go back to COD. Wait, you actually pay attention to the ingame descriptions? Gameplay over lore. Every time. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 324	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:32:00 - [8] - Quote Delete Dust.. sniping fixed :D lol
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 957	Posted - 2014.05.27 03:13:00 - [9] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: 3. Range Currently sniper riffles have an effective and absolute range from [1- 599]m this means there is no reason other than vantage or over watch "mind you these are pretty big reasons" for a sniper to leave the redline.... but if the effective range of a sniper was [1-200]m tapering off to 60% at 300m .... and had an absolute range of 600m it would encourage snipers to pick up closer more tactical positions I'm not comfortable with the effective 200m range you suggest. At all. Here's why: I often snipe at the 200m range and it can really pucker your butt because you are very, very close to people who have weapons that fire much, much faster than you can. They can usually run towards you and close the distance pretty quickly. You can feel their rage and see the hate burning in their bugged out little eyes. You start off crouched, have to stand up, turn, then run like hell. These things can take a second or two - a scout or logi can really close the gap in that time. If you decide not to run, any lateral movement or jumping by the guy closing on you is very hard to compensate for when you are scoped in. So getting off a shot can be a thrilling Vegas-like experience. I've been there and these guys can turn a proto commando sniper suit to smouldering thread in about four seconds (no exaggeration). Then I'm off to the biomass vat, getting fitted for another clone. "Ahhhh, Mr. Poonmunch! So nice to see you again. Another rail rifle was it? Will it be the usual this time?" The 200m sniping range is for the hair-on-fire-balls-to-the-wall-three-testicle-banging-the-whole-cheerleading-squad sniper. It is not for everyone and it certainly isn't an advantage on all maps. If I take that risk - and I do - I want some reasonable expectation that I'll succeed somehow. Sometimes success means that I get a hack, save a blue surrounded by some reds, nail a heavy or stop a hack. Sometimes success means I live with only a sliver of armor left, bleeding from my ass and limping badly. Please be careful with suggestions like this. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 1563	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:00:00 - [10] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: 3. Range Currently sniper riffles have an effective and absolute range from [1- 599]m this means there is no reason other than vantage or over watch "mind you these are pretty big reasons" for a sniper to leave the redline.... but if the effective range of a sniper was [1-200]m tapering off to 60% at 300m .... and had an absolute range of 600m it would encourage snipers to pick up closer more tactical positions I'm not comfortable with the effective 200m range you suggest. At all. Here's why: I often snipe at the 200m range and it can really pucker your butt because you are very, very close to people who have weapons that fire much, much faster than you can. They can usually run towards you and close the distance pretty quickly. You can feel their rage and see the hate burning in their bugged out little eyes. You start off crouched, have to stand up, turn, then run like hell. These things can take a second or two - a scout or logi can really close the gap in that time. If you decide not to run, any lateral movement or jumping by the guy closing on you is very hard to compensate for when you are scoped in. So getting off a shot can be a thrilling Vegas-like experience. I've been there and these guys can turn a proto commando sniper suit to smouldering thread in about four seconds (no exaggeration). Then I'm off to the biomass vat, getting fitted for another clone. "Ahhhh, Mr. Poonmunch! So nice to see you again. Another rail rifle was it? I'm so sorry. Will it be the usual clone this time?" The 200m sniping range is for the hair-on-fire-balls-to-the-wall-three-testicle-banging-the-whole-cheerleading-squad sniper. It is not for everyone and it certainly isn't an advantage on all maps. If I take that risk - and I do - I want some reasonable expectation that I'll succeed somehow. Sometimes success means that I get a hack, save a blue surrounded by some reds, nail a heavy or stop a hack. Sometimes success means I live with only a sliver of armor left, bleeding from my ass and limping badly. Please be careful with suggestions like this. Munch Just got out of a mach sniping from 200mts. Oh god, it was crazy. But it was a Dom on magnus peak and since most snipers were MCC sniping it was.... a cramped fighting environment anyway and a crapton of HOLY SH!T moments. But watching MCC snipers fall allllllllllllllllllllll the way down after that headshot is sweeeeeeeeeet. NT-11 \m/ PSN Sil4nt Chaozz Scout that keeps hacking stuff, 'SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED' Don't need HP mods to be a boss, just a SCP

Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1454	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:04:00 - [11] - Quote Headshot on moving targets should deal alot more damage. *Assassination is my thing.*
End Is Here Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:20:00 - [12] - Quote No no no..... The ONLY problem with snipers right now is some of the shots are'nt causing any damage. Right now they are actually handicapped. That is punishment enough. The damage mod nerf turned a lot of people away from sniping. ALL because everyone had to have all the suit variations. Caldari would have been stone cold killers and everyone would have played the favortism card. HOWEVER, IRL bullets lose velosity over long distances. In dust, they are constant and never lose speed. Bullets should not do full damage all the way accross the map.
Minion Max Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:27:00 - [13] - Quote Sniping at 200? I have spent time on the range with some of the Marine Corps best in 1990 as a Range NCO. We was at 800 to 1250 yards with the M40A1,a .308 bolt action. Here I use the Charge and it takes three or more on a heavy, even with a 175% damage. Thinking a sniper should be at 200 when a combat or assault range is 250 is a little dumb. Sniping is all about distance, patience and accuracy. Do not stand still in the field and we will not drop you. With 7 months I am at 3.6 to 1 and pay for it every time I get under 200m in a light suit. Semper Fi. Cpl, 87-95
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 959	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:31:00 - [14] - Quote Minion Max wrote: Sniping at 200? I have spent time on the range with some of the Marine Corps best in 1990 as a Range NCO. We was at 800 to 1250 yards with the M40A1,a .308 bolt action. Here I use the Charge and it takes three or more on a heavy, even with a 175% damage. Thinking a sniper should be at 200 when a combat or assault range is 250 is a little dumb. Sniping is all about distance, patience and accuracy. Do not stand still in the field and we will not drop you. With 7 months I am at 3.6 to 1 and pay for it every time I get under 200m in a light suit. Fukkin'-A bro. Nice to hear it from someone with real life experience. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Ace Boone G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 152	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:40:00 - [15] - Quote Minion Max wrote: Sniping at 200? I have spent time on the range with some of the Marine Corps best in 1990 as a Range NCO. We was at 800 to 1250 yards with the M40A1,a .308 bolt action. Here I use the Charge and it takes three or more on a heavy, even with a 175% damage. Thinking a sniper should be at 200 when a combat or assault range is 250 is a little dumb. Sniping is all about distance, patience and accuracy. Do not stand still in the field and we will not drop you. With 7 months I am at 3.6 to 1 and pay for it every time I get under 200m in a light suit. Because you had to tell us about your military background just to say snipers ranges should be longer, right? Director of G0DS AM0NG MEN -Official PR Consultant.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1444	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:45:00 - [16] - Quote Minion Max wrote: Sniping at 200? I have spent time on the range with some of the Marine Corps best in 1990 as a Range NCO. We was at 800 to 1250 yards with the M40A1,a .308 bolt action. Here I use the Charge and it takes three or more on a heavy, even with a 175% damage. Thinking a sniper should be at 200 when a combat or assault range is 250 is a little dumb. Sniping is all about distance, patience and accuracy. Do not stand still in the field and we will not drop you. With 7 months I am at 3.6 to 1 and pay for it every time I get under 200m in a light suit. Yes, but this is a game and CCP needs to build the weapon so that it is fun, and not just fun for the snipers but fun for all the players in the game. The post about snipers lacking enough of a role (simply killing isn't enough since other classes do that much better) nor is holding a point (again other classes do it much better) making snipers have some added ewar benefit would go a long way towards making the role usefull in pubs and perhaps even PC. Fun > Realism
Eltra Ardell Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 418	Posted - 2014.05.27 05:45:00 - [17] - Quote How to fix sniping: Why are you sniping?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5573	Posted - 2014.05.27 05:48:00 - [18] - Quote Cutting Sniper range is a terrible idea. Adding special effects to Snipers AND LIMITING THE RANGE ON THOSE ABILITIES would be more beneficial. At present, Snipers aren't killing competent players very often unless they're GOOD Snipers, and even then they're only really doing so when they're moving out from the redline, or when their whole team is trapped behind the redline being spawn-camped. Redline Snipers are only a valid and real threat when your team is failing, or when everyone on the enemy team is in the redline, at which point they don't count. Run with the usually-suggested option of a scoped sniper being able to "mark" a target by keeping them in the sights. Limit the range on THAT ability to around 300m, but even that should be more than your proposed 200m effective range, because being that close to enemies is usually a sign that the sniper has failed at their job. Snipers are MEANT to keep distance from enemies, NOT close in on them. That's why they have a low ammo count and slow fire rate with relatively high damage. And it's also why their damage is rarely enough to one-shot targets without headshots. Also, keep in mind that while lining two shots up is often faster than one headshot, the enemy is often taking cover after the first shot and preventing you from landing a second one. When the choice is between 100% damage and the target is gone or 195% damage and the target MIGHT be dead and will definitely be hurting, imagine if you added a short-term marker lighting the wounded target up on TACNET as well. Now imagine that marking a target also awards the Sniper with a bonus like the one for Scanning enemies before they're killed off. This would shift the Sniper's role from being merely a killer to being long-range fire support (only a semi-viable role now) with mid-range EWAR functions adding to their effectiveness in that role. Assists would be easier to come by, and even if you couldn't get a clean shot, lighting up a target as they move to flank your teammates would - like it used to with fully shared TACNET - help your teammates to see the threat and respond.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1559	Posted - 2014.05.27 06:04:00 - [19] - Quote Minion Max wrote: Sniping at 200? I have spent time on the range with some of the Marine Corps best in 1990 as a Range NCO. We was at 800 to 1250 yards with the M40A1,a .308 bolt action. Here I use the Charge and it takes three or more on a heavy, even with a 175% damage. Thinking a sniper should be at 200 when a combat or assault range is 250 is a little dumb. Sniping is all about distance, patience and accuracy. Do not stand still in the field and we will not drop you. With 7 months I am at 3.6 to 1 and pay for it every time I get under 200m in a light suit. RL experience is a grand thing, and I'm grateful for your service, but real life specs have nothing to do with balancing a sci-fi video game. Since there is no way to properly fix redline sniping without breaking the redline (redlines-yet another thing you don't find in real life), the only other option for balance in to fix the sniper rifle itself and make the sniper a squad based tactical marksman instead. To the OP: I would also suggest you reduce the standing weapon sway by half since you are going to be doing the majority of your shooting at a much closer range. This will allow players who need to shoot in a pinch to have a decent chance of hitting if they can control the sway properly. Also, I would suggest you adjust the ranges a bit based on the model. The charged should have a slightly longer effective range and optimum range whereas the tactical should have slightly less range but also less standing sway than the other two variants. And kudos on the post, I was saying something very similar just today in DJINN GITAXIS' post. He.... wasn't a fan of the idea. My thoughts on it weren't nearly as fleshed out and well described as yours, but I described the new role these new sniper rifle stats would fill. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition Red Whines. 239	Posted - 2014.05.27 11:54:00 - [20] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: 3. Range I'm not comfortable with the effective 200m range you suggest. At all. Here's why: I often snipe at the 200m range and it can really pucker your butt because you are very, very close to people who have weapons that fire much, much faster than you can. They can usually run towards you and close the distance pretty quickly. You can feel their rage and see the hate burning in their bugged out little eyes. You start off crouched, have to stand up, turn, then run like hell. These things can take a second or two - a scout or logi can really close the gap in that time. If you decide not to run, any lateral movement or jumping by the guy closing on you is very hard to compensate for when you are scoped in. So getting off a shot can be a thrilling Vegas-like experience. I've been there and these guys can turn a proto commando sniper suit to smouldering thread in about four seconds (no exaggeration). Then I'm off to the biomass vat, getting fitted for another clone. "Ahhhh, Mr. Poonmunch! So nice to see you again. Another rail rifle was it? I'm so sorry. Will it be the usual clone this time?" The 200m sniping range is for the hair-on-fire-balls-to-the-wall-three-testicle-banging-the-whole-cheerleading-squad sniper. It is not for everyone and it certainly isn't an advantage on all maps. If I take that risk - and I do - I want some reasonable expectation that I'll succeed somehow. Sometimes success means that I get a hack, save a blue surrounded by some reds, nail a heavy or stop a hack. Sometimes success means I live with only a sliver of armor left, bleeding from my ass and limping badly. Please be careful with suggestions like this. Munch with the additional rof/damage buffs as well as the increased headshot multiplier you will be doing practically the same if not more damage up to (300,350)m , you just do the most damage up to 200m ......... and I also suggested that they stop the scope sway from resetting when strafing as well a 10% scope sway reduction................ but alas I more often than not snipe from within 200m of the objective so I may have overlooked the tower sniper in some way please make suggestions for mechanics to benefit tower sniping and I may add them to the list :D so commandos are good now O_o

Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 408	Posted - 2014.05.27 12:08:00 - [21] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: LegacyofTable wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: 3. Range Currently sniper riffles have an effective and absolute range from [1- 599]m this means there is no reason other than vantage or over watch "mind you these are pretty big reasons" for a sniper to leave the redline.... but if the effective range of a sniper was [1-200]m tapering off to 60% at 300m .... and had an absolute range of 600m (YOLO 360 no scopes FTW) No. Never. You people saying "nerf the range omg too op" need to stop. Snipers are meant to have long range, get over it. And as to the reduction of dmg past 200-300m, get out. The description says it fires at 2,500m/s, so it wouldn't lose dmg over a bigger range ever. And as to the "Yolo 360 no scopes" please go back to COD. Wait, you actually pay attention to the ingame descriptions? Gameplay over lore. Every time. This. hes one of those idiots who will argue the HMG 'should' have the most range in the game. gameplay first. #1 problem with sniping is still hit detection.

ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 1162	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:51:00 - [22] - Quote Some type of crosshair when out of scope would be nice to have so at least you have some way of trying to aim towards people rushing at you. /c DUSTSearch DUSTBoard DUST Server Status

Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 961	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:53:00 - [23] - Quote Eltra Ardell wrote: How to fix sniping: Why are you sniping? I like to snipe. I like the challenge. It's my game, so quit harshing my buzz. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 961	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:24:00 - [24] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Poonmunch wrote: 3. Range I'm not comfortable with the effective 200m range you suggest. At all. Here's why: I often snipe at the 200m range and it can really pucker your butt because you are very, very close to people who have weapons that fire much, much faster than you can. They can usually run towards you and close the distance pretty quickly. You can feel their rage and see the hate burning in their bugged out little eyes. You start off crouched, have to stand up, turn, then run like hell. These things can take a second or two - a scout or logi can really close the gap in that time. If you decide not to run, any lateral movement or jumping by the guy closing on you is very hard to compensate for when you are scoped in. So getting off a shot can be a thrilling Vegas-like experience. I've been there and these guys can turn a proto commando sniper suit to smouldering thread in about four seconds (no exaggeration). Then I'm off to the biomass vat, getting fitted for another clone. "Ahhhh, Mr. Poonmunch! So nice to see you again. Another rail rifle was it? I'm so sorry. Will it be the usual clone this time?" The 200m sniping range is for the hair-on-fire-balls-to-the-wall-three-testicle-banging-the-whole-cheerleading-squad sniper. It is not for everyone and it certainly isn't an advantage on all maps. If I take that risk - and I do - I want some reasonable expectation that I'll succeed somehow. Sometimes success means that I get a hack, save a blue surrounded by some reds, nail a heavy or stop a hack. Sometimes success means I live with only a sliver of armor left, bleeding from my ass and limping badly. Please be careful with suggestions like this. Munch with the additional rof/damage buffs as well as the increased headshot multiplier you will be doing practically the same if not more damage up to (300,350)m , you just do the most damage up to 200m ......... and I also suggested that they stop the scope sway from resetting when strafing as well a 10% scope sway reduction................ but alas I more often than not snipe from within 200m of the objective so I may have overlooked the tower sniper in some way please make suggestions for mechanics to benefit tower sniping and I may add them to the list :D Your suggestions give proto version of the sniper rifle (the charge) roughly half the ammunition per clip in comparison to the lower tier sniper rifles. Repeated reloads will severely reduce the overall rate of fire. Add a fair amount of damage falloff. The proto skill level of sniping has no sway when scoped in. So you want to eliminate sway from the lower tier variants? How do the three above changes incentivise skilling into proto? Adding the headshot multiplier is a good idea. Headshots should be rewarded for the difficult shots they are. These should be instakills in my opinion. Hipfire standardization isn't really something I'd expect from a sniper rifle in the present day. It would break immersion and to be honest, it isn't fair to people who have the balls and skill to get close enough to kill me. Think of getting close enough to a sniper to instakill them as the corollary to the sniper's one headshot instakill. The rate of fire changes give the lower tier sniper rifles more damage output. This isn't a bad idea and would compensate for the crappiness of the lower tier sniper rifles. But lots of folks would complain. The added damage might be helpful but a spreadsheet with data is needed to assess this. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15210	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:29:00 - [25] - Quote 200 meters I feel would make it too short of a range as its pretty damn close to most other threats with such limited bite. The previous 600 (though furthest I been killed was 450) is as you say a bit too much. 300 (3 grid squares) is decent enough the targets are still proper size on the scoping and threat vector can be determined as a victim. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 963	Posted - 2014.05.27 14:56:00 - [26] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 200 meters I feel would make it too short of a range as its pretty damn close to most other threats with such limited bite. The previous 600 (though furthest I been killed was 450) is as you say a bit too much. 300 (3 grid squares) is decent enough the targets are still proper size on the scoping and threat vector can be determined as a victim. I have killed out to 599m on moving targets. And it is a very, very skilled shot. The target is smaller than the dot on the reticle. And it is moving, often laterally. In a fair number of instances the longer kills are other snipers. Counter-sniping is a big part of the sniper's meta game. I sometimes spend a whole match hunting another sniper. This is our version of the game and has nothing to do with the CQC guys. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2014.05.27 15:14:00 - [27] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 200 meters I feel would make it too short of a range as its pretty damn close to most other threats with such limited bite. The previous 600 (though furthest I been killed was 450) is as you say a bit too much. 300 (3 grid squares) is decent enough the targets are still proper size on the scoping and threat vector can be determined as a victim. Nobody is asking for a range reduction on sniper rifles. People are NOT getting LOTS of kills at 600m. They might be far off but they certainly are not contributing towards victory in any significant manner.
Symbioticforks The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 223	Posted - 2014.05.27 15:26:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 200 meters I feel would make it too short of a range as its pretty damn close to most other threats with such limited bite. The previous 600 (though furthest I been killed was 450) is as you say a bit too much. 300 (3 grid squares) is decent enough the targets are still proper size on the scoping and threat vector can be determined as a victim. I have 40,000 kills in sniping a lone. It's primarily what I do. I'm pretty well known throughout the Dust 514 PC community as a dedicated sniper. I would most definitely NOT support a range reduction on the sniper rifle. It would make it impossible to counter snipe red line snipers without them knowing about your efforts to get close enough. As things are currently I can counter snipe someone from across the map when my team calls out their general location without having to give away my position. Again the longer the range 500-600 meters especially the less effective sniper you are. Sometimes that's where the only viable targets are located until they move up closer. However, lining up those shots and especially hitting someone twice at those ranges is very difficult compared to the 230-420 ranges. ^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition Red Whines. 240	Posted - 2014.05.27 15:33:00 - [29] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Your suggestions give proto version of the sniper rifle (the charge) roughly half the ammunition per clip in comparison to the lower tier sniper rifles. Repeated reloads will severely reduce the overall rate of fire. Add a fair amount of damage falloff. The proto skill level of sniping has no sway when scoped in. So you want to eliminate sway from the lower tier variants/lower skill levels? How do the three above changes incentivise skilling into proto? Adding the headshot multiplier is a good idea. Headshots should be rewarded for the difficult shots they are. These should be instakills in my opinion. Hipfire standardization isn't really something I'd expect from a sniper rifle in the present day. It would break immersion and to be honest, it isn't fair to people who have the balls and skill to get close enough to kill me. Think of getting close enough to a sniper to instakill them as the corollary to the sniper's one headshot instakill. The rate of fire changes give the lower tier sniper rifles more damage output. This isn't a bad idea and would compensate for the crappiness of the lower tier sniper rifles. But lots of folks would complain. The added damage might be helpful but a spreadsheet with data is needed to assess this. Munch Imo clip size should be based off of damage per round meaning the tactical has the largest clip size while the charge has the least.... the charge sniper rifle with my suggested changes would be able to get up to 541 damage per shot (against armor) with a 1345 headshot... so it doesn't need to be able to get follow up shots doing 747 damage per headshot at 350 meters and the ROF increases is to make counter sniping high hp targets ie (gallente heavies much easier) I can post the proposed damages for the proto sniper rifles at relevant ranges if you need them :D so commandos are good now O_o
Symbioticforks The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 223	Posted - 2014.05.27 15:39:00 - [30] - Quote Just stop it. ^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^

Symbioticforks The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 224	Posted - 2014.05.27 15:51:00 - [31] - Quote Someone I've never even heard of is trying to change the whole dynamic of sniping. Screwing with rate of fire and damage on a large scale? Nobody is asking for that. (try your luck with the remaining racial sniper rifles that have yet to be released) -increased head shot damage -revisiting the current base damage is enough. ^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 73	Posted - 2014.05.27 17:07:00 - [32] - Quote Finally a discussion about sniping with thought involved, from both sides well done everyone I do agree that tactical rifles need a lot of attention at the moment they are useless except for counter sniping, that said I would wait to see how they are effected by the headshot multiplier first. they have a more powerful zoom and can headshot much easier so increasing damage on headshots aswell as ammo per clip AND rate of fire would probably be too much. I think that as they are called a tactical weapon it might be a good idea to reduce the range on them whilst giving them a boost to rof and headshot damage increase as they would become the "marksman" type of weapon, but I would also leave the charge rifles range alone and allowing it the headshot increase, leave the ammo per clip and total ammo alone, and then if it seems unbalanced lower the rof but only very slightly .it's got much lower zoom and is harder to get the headshots. .it's more powerful and that should mean according to lore that bullets would travel further. .it already takes long enough between charged shots that targets are often in cover before the second shot is fired,(when heavies get taken out by snipers it's usually because they ignored the first shot or two). flip side: .tactical rifles would be more mobile .tactical rifles already fire faster but not quite quick enough for the ranges 200-300m. (as more than one person pointed out this is supposed to be fun for everyone-that would include snipers.) .with extra ammo and (possibly crosshairs?) larger clips the tactical sniper aka marksman would have more of a chance to protect himself at closer quarters and possibly by extension his squad. N.B. I personally think any mid range sniper rifle is going to either be op or up, with balance being hard to find. I would also be very careful when considering changes to sniping that reward poor snipers. I'm a dedicated sniper on dust, most who play with me say I'm fairly good at it . I can honestly say I have no problem with a reduction in effective range (not absolute range) post 450m...BUT ONLY AFTER WE GET NEW VANTAGE POINTS WITHIN THOSE RANGES. (please note this is a compromise, dust lore states 2,500m/s we didn't make it up, that means no drop or delay at these distances). (also by the way there is a recorded recent event of a real life sniper killing 6 or so people with one bullet from over 800m away by shooting a DETONATOR, in dust, the future, we can't shoot the side of an mcc over 600m.... just something to mull over). There should definitely be some sort of tagging that we could employ as snipers for our squad just killing is not enough I really liked the idea of aiming at a target to highlight it for our squads as in the earlier days and would love to see it earn wp, also along those lines being able to tag vehicles. and some extra wp for revenge/protection kills etc wouldn't go amiss. just a small point really but I for one enjoy sniping and like being a distance killer, aswell as a spotter for my team, etc and I think most snipers would say that it is the role a sniper is supposed to be in. I'd also suggest that if new racial variants do arrive I'd suggest another long range on and another marksman type one.
Minion Max Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2014.05.27 21:22:00 - [33] - Quote Eltra Ardell wrote: How to fix sniping: Why are you sniping? 20+ years of construction takes its toll on your hands and and reflexes. The up close fast movements and first FPS are to fast for me to handle. With 4300 kills and 1194 deaths in 7months and 12 days, I am staying above 350m. The only other game I played was GT to GT5, the Poly jacked up GT6. I just pull cover support and or get the tanks to hunt me. My worse day was 0 kills and 5 deaths, best was 17 kills all at 510m. Best kill was 597m. Using the Charge is a close to the M40 or new Barrett M95 .50 and .416 for rate of fire and reload time, and any hit with the Barrett is a kill, 1800m range with 850 mps. Figure a M16A2 to the A4 have sniper range up to 800y without a scope but in the prone position. From the ranges I have been killed at with almost all the weapons, the ranges are close as they can be in a game that has confined battlefields. Semper Fi. Cpl, 87-95
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition Red Whines. 241	Posted - 2014.05.27 21:56:00 - [34] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Someone I've never even heard of is trying to change the whole dynamic of sniping. Screwing with rate of fire and damage on a large scale? Nobody is asking for that. (try your luck with the remaining racial sniper rifles that have yet to be released) -increased head shot damage -revisiting the current base damage is enough. and buff every redline sniper in the game making more one-sided games and destroying matchmaking in the process idk about you but im tired of seeing blue dots pull out milita snipers sitting on a hill doing nothing the entire game so commandos are good now O_o
Symbioticforks The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 226	Posted - 2014.05.27 21:57:00 - [35] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Someone I've never even heard of is trying to change the whole dynamic of sniping. Screwing with rate of fire and damage on a large scale? Nobody is asking for that. (try your luck with the remaining racial sniper rifles that have yet to be released) -increased head shot damage -revisiting the current base damage is enough. and buff every redline sniper in the game making more one-sided games and destroying matchmaking in the process idk about you but im tired of seeing blue dots pull out milita snipers sitting on a hill doing nothing the entire game Yeah I'm tired of non factor players doing 200 damage from red line (3 shot clip) with a 4 second reload too SARCASM. ^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 309	Posted - 2014.05.27 22:00:00 - [36] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: I think its universally agreed that sniping in dust is pretty crappy looking from either side of the scope :D......... my proposals are made to discourage redline sniping while making sniping much more effective.... 1. Changes to clip size...... Currently there are 3 sniper variants The tactical variant - 3 rounds in a clip The charge variant - 5 rounds a clip The standard variant - 5 rounds in a clip proposed changes The charge variant - 3 rounds a clip The standard variant - 4 rounds in a clip The tactical variant - 5 rounds in a clip 2. Headshot Multiplier Currently in game there is a 195% headshot multiplier........ " In my personal experience its a lot faster and easier to line up two body shots than one headshot "...... there should be a higher head shot multiplier 250% would offer more incentive to line up headshots 3. Range Currently sniper riffles have an effective and absolute range from [1- 599]m this means there is no reason other than vantage or over watch "mind you these are pretty big reasons" for a sniper to leave the redline.... but if the effective range of a sniper was [1-200]m tapering off to 60% at 300m .... and had an absolute range of 600m it would encourage snipers to pick up closer more tactical positions 4. Scope Sway Reduce scope sway by (10-15)% across all tiers and remove the reset while strafing..... and have a more consistent hip fire 5. Damage/Rate of fire Current model The charge variant - 50 rpm (higher damage) The standard variant - 50 rpm (moderate damage) The tactical variant - 100 rpm (lower damage) Proposed Changes The charge variant - 50 rpm (higher damage * 10%) The standard variant - 75 rpm (moderate damage * 10%) The tactical variant - 125 rpm (lower damage * 5%) "the damage/rate of fire changes are to balance the proposed range changes and make the sniper rifles more competitive" Final thoughts..... These changes would not only make true snipers much more effective but would drastically hinder redline snipers... it would allow snipers to get closer to the battle without encouraging too much quick scoping(YOLO 360 no scopes FTW).... allowing snipers to either follow behind a squad or support from a distance...."but alas I more often than not snipe from within 200m of the objective so I may have hurt the tower sniper in some way please make suggestions for mechanics and I may add them to the list :D" disclaimer So basicly you want to make Tactical Sniper Rifle even more powerful than its actually is(compare to other versions), and you call it "hot fix". I don't think that your propose fix anything, but hey keep trying.
Symbioticforks The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 232	Posted - 2014.05.27 22:01:00 - [37] - Quote CCP / CPM Have you read through this thread? Have you read through this thread? because you probably should if you're going to even touch sniper rifles. Ever. ^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
Symbioticforks The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 232	Posted - 2014.05.27 22:04:00 - [38] - Quote Talk to Appia Vibbia. (dedicated sniper) / (CPM candidate) she knows a thing or two about sniping in Dust 514 since you don't like me. (need her to post her opinions here if indeed someone is finally listening to the community of snipers) ^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 969	Posted - 2014.05.27 23:50:00 - [39] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Imo clip size should be based off of damage per round meaning the tactical has the largest clip size while the charge has the least.... the charge sniper rifle with my suggested changes would be able to get up to 541 damage per shot (against armor) with a 1345 headshot... so it doesn't need to be able to get follow up shots doing 747 damage per headshot at 350 meters and the ROF increases is to make counter sniping high hp targets ie (gallente heavies much easier) I can post the proposed damages for the proto sniper rifles at relevant ranges if you need them :D Yes, please post them. If you really want to feel like an accountant, publish them all. Seriously. I'd like to see what you come up with. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 970	Posted - 2014.05.28 00:04:00 - [40] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: I think that as they are called a tactical weapon it might be a good idea to reduce the range on them whilst giving them a boost to rof and headshot damage increase as they would become the "marksman" type of weapon, but I would also leave the charge rifles range alone and allowing it the headshot increase, leave the ammo per clip and total ammo alone, and then if it seems unbalanced lower the rof but only very slightly .it's got much lower zoom and is harder to get the headshots. .it's more powerful and that should mean according to lore that bullets would travel further. .it already takes long enough between charged shots that targets are often in cover before the second shot is fired,(when heavies get taken out by snipers it's usually because they ignored the first shot or two). flip side: .tactical rifles would be more mobile .tactical rifles already fire faster but not quite quick enough for the ranges 200-300m. (as more than one person pointed out this is supposed to be fun for everyone-that would include snipers.) .with extra ammo and (possibly crosshairs?) larger clips the tactical sniper aka marksman would have more of a chance to protect himself at closer quarters and possibly by extension his squad. This is an interesting idea and I support it. I'd love to try it out. Snake Sellors wrote: N.B. I personally think any mid range sniper rifle is going to either be op or up, with balance being hard to find. This is very true. The mid-range will be difficult to balance. Snake Sellors wrote: I'm a dedicated sniper on dust, most who play with me say I'm fairly good at it . I can honestly say I have no problem with a reduction in effective range (not absolute range) post 450m...BUT ONLY AFTER WE GET NEW VANTAGE POINTS WITHIN THOSE RANGES. (please note this is a compromise, dust lore states 2,500m/s we didn't make it up, that means no drop or delay at these distances). Maybe. 450 might cut it but I want to have more perches inside the redline to compensate. Good perches, mind you. Snake Sellors wrote: There should definitely be some sort of tagging that we could employ as snipers for our squad just killing is not enough I really liked the idea of aiming at a target to highlight it for our squads as in the earlier days and would love to see it earn wp, also along those lines being able to tag vehicles. and some extra wp for revenge/protection kills etc wouldn't go amiss. This is an interesting idea and it could add something to our repertoire. Highlighting targets similar to a scanner but at longer range would be quite helpful. It would have to have a limited time of effect and a fairly long cooldown (like a cloak, maybe longer). Do you see it revealing cloaked players also? Snake Sellors wrote: just a small point really but I for one enjoy sniping and like being a distance killer, aswell as a spotter for my team, etc and I think most snipers would say that it is the role a sniper is supposed to be in. I agree. Spotting more effectively would be cool. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.

Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition Red Whines. 241	Posted - 2014.05.28 13:30:00 - [41] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: Yeah I'm tired of non factor players doing 200 damage from red line (3 shot clip) with a 4 second reload too SARCASM. that's the problem I would rather they participate in the battle than sit in the redline getting maybe 1 kill........ its all about bodies on the objective look we could go back and forth but I think we want the same thing and that's for sniping to be fixed :D so commandos are good now O_o
Minion Max Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2014.05.29 02:34:00 - [42] - Quote Yes CCP should cut sniper ranges down to 200, and while there at it cut all other weapons ranges by Gàö or so. Pistols down to 3m, shotgun to 10, assault and HMG to 50 and rifles to 100. Limit Sagas to 5km with Nerf bumpers so there is no Roadkill.Tanks and Dropships to 150, that should keep everybody at 1 of the 5 objectives. To make things fair to that prick with the knives(3 times) give him a baseball bat so he can just beat the crap out people and not kill them. The variety of weapons and ranges are there for the variety of people playing, thus mirroring all military units. Some of the best matches I have been in have been 1 or 2 kills, but the have save others pined down. Picking off a gunner in a moving Saga at 550 makes them nervous, allowing teammates to move on an objective. I do get into the fight, thus 1200+ deaths, one run dropping ammo and spawn points in a lights suit with a SMG. I die and them go sniping, no complaining about getting blown off the map by a Warbird Strike. Keep Light on the Edge or Armor up in the Bloodzone. Semper Fi. Cpl, 87-95
Eko Sol Strange Playings 395	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:00:00 - [43] - Quote Sniping is fine. The maps aren't all conducive for sniping. Red line sniping is a sorta issue for me. I think that the redline on your own side should exist even when dropping out of the MCC. I think there should be a 3 minute total in which you are allowed in the red line. This means you have to leave the redline and when you come back it should restart at where you were at. After hitting less than 10 seconds then you should only get 10 seconds in the redline at any given point to include running back into the red for a turret or supply depot. This will apply to all of the red. I should be able to run up 300 meters into the red and take out that sniper without dying. Period. As far as fixing sniping is concerned. It is fine. I think that a GOOD sniper goes after equipment as well and I think that should award extra WP for sniping equipment. Nothing else needs change. No Zoom. No Range Nerfs. No damage changes. No RoF changes. Nothing. Just some WP so good to great snipers aren't on the bottom of the leader board taking out 30 pieces of equipment and a few kills. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Jaed D'jaegweir Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.05.29 03:13:00 - [44] - Quote Leave the snipers alone, Better scopes, hell yea 750m range , my personal longest is 593m , ,triple head shot bonus, at max the sniper should have zero sway. there you go, simple "We do not live in a world of reality. We live in a world of perceptions." -Gerald Simmons
Symbioticforks The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 243	Posted - 2014.05.29 04:57:00 - [45] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Yeah I'm tired of non factor players doing 200 damage from red line (3 shot clip) with a 4 second reload too SARCASM. that's the problem I would rather they participate in the battle than sit in the redline getting maybe 1 kill........ its all about bodies on the objective look we could go back and forth but I think we want the same thing and that's for sniping to be fixed :D True. Deleting the STARTER-SNIPER fit.. would help I feel. ^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 74	Posted - 2014.05.29 15:10:00 - [46] - Quote Sniping is definitely not fine.... unless your proto stomping in pub matches then it's not in a good place. please keep it in mind the thales rifle is not within the normal range of sniper rifles as it is an officer weapon and is therefore an exception. in p.c battles sniper rifles are useless. we already get points for sniping equipment and although I agree it can be game changing taking out uplinks I don't see how shooting a few uplinks will ever reward enough points to be a snipers main focus, there would never be enough uplinks down to mean that a sniper could make a difference in p.c.and if your thinking of a sniper running around shooting uplinks and trying to be stealthy...we have scouts for that. I don't think it should be anyone's main focus anyway and don't forget that whatever you do to reward points for snipers will also apply to everybody else, if you boost the wp for it too far... unless it's a unique thing as with guardian points, and that's where tagging would be a good idea I've literally lost count of how many times I saved squad mates simply by calling out enemy locations (nevermind how many times I've killed the person shooting at them.) your right not all maps are sniper friendly, but the point isn't map design, it's that any weapon other than an officer weapon which you can't buy is literally useless in a p.c battle, you could I suppose take one in to call out places and shoot a few uplinks here and there and when the map finishes and your stats say you went 2/0 and come in at the bottom of the board with around 200 wp your corp mates will be well pleased with you. I also kind of agree that starter fit snipers don't help matters, but I don't see any way around it, any person that likes sniping has to start somewhere. though I maintain that the way forward is skill based bonuses to damage and war points. possibly even some sort of skill we could spec into. I'd like to put more sp into sniping if there was anything left to do.. also it needs attention to the extra ammo skill. that is just plain bad. last of all, more red line issues......really I'm a sniper, it's almost all I enjoy doing on here, 1. I HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE RED LINE BEING HOW IT IS 2. I HAVE GONE SO FAR AS TO PUT ANOTHER POST ON SUGGESTIONS THAT WE MAKE CHANGES TO THE RED LINE 3. I HAVE ALSO POINTED OUT IN MANY THREADS BY NOW THAT WE WOULD LIKE MORE POSITIONS OUTSIDE OF THE RED AREAS AND THAT WE DON'T LIKE BOWL MAPS red lines are not only used by snipers and are therefore a separate issue.....rinse and repeat...yawn
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.05.29 15:22:00 - [47] - Quote Atiim wrote: Posting this here before Anti-Sniper extremists inevitably resort to using fallacies to support uneducated arguments. Association \| Straw Man \| Toup+¬e Sniping is unwanted by most of the community, sniping is already powerful enough, we dont need sniping to play more of a roll than it is currently imo. I say its fine.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.05.29 15:52:00 - [48] - Quote Minion Max wrote: Sniping at 200? I have spent time on the range with some of the Marine Corps best in 1990 as a Range NCO. We was at 800 to 1250 yards with the M40A1,a .308 bolt action. Here I use the Charge and it takes three or more on a heavy, even with a 175% damage. Thinking a sniper should be at 200 when a combat or assault range is 250 is a little dumb. Sniping is all about distance, patience and accuracy. Do not stand still in the field and we will not drop you. With 7 months I am at 3.6 to 1 and pay for it every time I get under 200m in a light suit. What is in real life has absolutely nothing to do with Dust, at all, keep that in mind. And there are no assault or dombat rifles with a 250 meter range, the rail has the most range and its less than half of the 200 meter proposal. I dont want snipers to have a bigger influence on this game, I thi k they are fine riggt now, no they are not as effective as our infantry but most like it that way. I like snipers killing other snipers, being able to cover and keep clear a single objective, and keeping high points cleared, thats good and all we need from them.
Cato Avgvstvs Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 5	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:20:00 - [49] - Quote End Is Here wrote: No no no..... The ONLY problem with snipers right now is some of the shots are'nt causing any damage. Right now they are actually handicapped. That is punishment enough. The damage mod nerf turned a lot of people away from sniping. ALL because everyone had to have all the suit variations. Caldari would have been stone cold killers and everyone would have played the favortism card. HOWEVER, IRL bullets lose velosity over long distances. In dust, they are constant and never lose speed. Bullets should not do full damage all the way accross the map. You invalidated your last sentence with the penultimate one... ex stylo Catonis
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4352	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:02:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: Posting this here before Anti-Sniper extremists inevitably resort to using fallacies to support uneducated arguments. Association \| Straw Man \| Toup+¬e LOL I love how they used a Top Gear quote for Association fallacy Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!

Michael Arck 4941	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:10:00 - [51] - Quote How bout no? Increase headshot multiplier? Lessen scope sway? You want a better sniping experience? Play with KBM. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 235	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:28:00 - [52] - Quote All the suggestions seem fine however they skirt around the real metagame problem with sniping. They need to fix the glitch where you can fire through the cover in front of you making it impossible to be counter sniped. This is why players sit in the redline on the crest of a hill. If you keep snipers from being able to do this they will move out of the redline as the redline is the first place you look to counter snipe. Other then the clips being reversed which I would agree with, the rest are unnecessary. As it stands my charged can one shot head shot anything except for proto assault tanked suits and heavy suits. That said if you up the power and lower sway it's going to become militia sniper 514. I use a regular ps3 controller and I can still line up headshot pretty quickly not too mention what players can do with a kb/m. Not too mention the main counter to vehicle spam (An elevated Forge Team) will get one shot headshot pretty easily in your suggestions as the forge forces you to a crawl while charging. Glitching through terrain and walls is the biggest issue with sniping the rifle itself is more than effective for what it can do. Remember you can't be easily countered by most play styles in the game if you lower the skill required to use the rifle it's going to become SR514. If I or any sniper can reset my position with less sway and move about with no sway then every other gun will be useless. If you want essentially a weapon that you proposed that is more balanced try the Laser Rifle, it has decent range and you can actually move around with it and line up shots very quickly/or just use auto aim to follow the target for you from hipfire.
Michael Arck 4941	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:33:00 - [53] - Quote Man please. The majority of snipers in here are terrible. Most in this thread get 5 kills in one match while.their team gets demolished on ground. Why else they want this changes? I would love to see these snipers in battle and see what they dont do an entire round. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Midas Fool Prophets of the Velocirapture 519	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:40:00 - [54] - Quote This is all nonsense. Sniping is and has always been fine. There are far fewer "good snipers" then there used to be and it has removed all meta surrounding proper sniper gameplay. (hint: leave the redline) I'll take the buffs though. Keep em coming. Just another hint: be part of a squad. ADV/PRO: 'Bishop' AmrLogistics, 'Commissar' CalSentinel, 'Rodelero' AmrScout, 'Legionnaire' CalAssault
Michael Arck 4941	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:47:00 - [55] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: This is all nonsense. Sniping is and has always been fine. There are far fewer "good snipers" then there used to be and it has removed all meta surrounding proper sniper gameplay. (hint: leave the redline) I'll take the buffs though. Keep em coming. Just another hint: be part of a squad. Exactly. Leave the damn redline. I had respect for the few snipers of the past. But they dont play as snipers now or dont play at all. All these requests are nonsensical. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2273	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:50:00 - [56] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: This is all nonsense. Sniping is and has always been fine. There are far fewer "good snipers" then there used to be and it has removed all meta surrounding proper sniper gameplay. (hint: leave the redline) I'll take the buffs though. Keep em coming. Just another hint: be part of a squad. Please show me a sniper that is relevant in competitive play. They don't exist in PC... There has only ever been 5 people really since Alpha that have ever made people go "Watch out for" If your argument is that it works in Pub's where well over 80% of the population can't even fly a dropship? anyone can make any gun work in Pubs. Snipers in DUST which used to be a main role.. Are now a Farce. People came to DUST to be a Sniper.. Now it is a niche role that people drop after a week because it's pointless. To me? that seems like the role is in terrible shape.
Midas Fool Prophets of the Velocirapture 519	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:03:00 - [57] - Quote Bethhy wrote: competitive play Well there's your problem right there. ADV/PRO: 'Bishop' AmrLogistics, 'Commissar' CalSentinel, 'Rodelero' AmrScout, 'Legionnaire' CalAssault
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 239	Posted - 2014.07.22 20:13:00 - [58] - Quote I might also add from a competitive perspective one decent sniper can force either one or two players to switch to counter sniping or can force players to never stop moving forcing lower accuracy over the enemy team as a whole. Though it's true that the enemy has to be pretty dumb for you to wrack up the sniper kills this could be said of tanks as well and most classes that are Ivory tower situated. If you make it to where snipers like tanks are killing machines instead of area denial, that's when you see glaring imbalance like 1.7's tanks. They force upon the team a certain strategy in their roles. And true if the enemy teams avoid the sniper and tanks the snipers and tanks won't get as many kills, but it also restricts and funnels enemy movement which should in theory make it easier for battle lines to form. Concentrated forces > Diluted forces, assuming if it's skirmish your forces don't concentrate on too few of objectives. -Armchair General
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2346	Posted - 2014.07.22 20:40:00 - [59] - Quote Shots originating from beyond the redline do no damage. Next. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Beh!
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 239	Posted - 2014.07.22 20:52:00 - [60] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Shots originating from beyond the redline do no damage. Next. It would have to be both ways or it would be a killing field for camping the enemy redline. In the case of both ways, I've been proposing a bullet barrier for ages but its not a popular idea with CCP or the community.

Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2349	Posted - 2014.07.22 20:55:00 - [61] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Shots originating from beyond the redline do no damage. Next. It would have to be both ways or it would be a killing field for camping the enemy redline. In the case of both ways, I've been proposing a bullet barrier for ages but its not a popular idea with CCP or the community. If your team is redlined, fix it or accept your defeat with dignity. Besides, KDR matchmaking fixes this. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Beh!
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 561	Posted - 2014.07.22 22:54:00 - [62] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: I think its universally agreed that sniping in dust is pretty crappy looking from either side of the scope :D......... my proposals are made to discourage redline sniping while making sniping much more effective.... 1. Changes to clip size...... Currently there are 3 sniper variants The tactical variant - 3 rounds in a clip The charge variant - 5 rounds a clip The standard variant - 5 rounds in a clip proposed changes The charge variant - 3 rounds a clip The standard variant - 4 rounds in a clip The tactical variant - 5 rounds in a clip 2. Headshot Multiplier Currently in game there is a 195% headshot multiplier........ " In my personal experience its a lot faster and easier to line up two body shots than one headshot "...... there should be a higher head shot multiplier 250% would offer more incentive to line up headshots 3. Range "edited" Currently sniper riffles have an effective and absolute range from [1- 599]m this means there is no reason other than vantage or over watch "mind you these are pretty big reasons" for a sniper to leave the redline.... but if the effective range of a sniper was [1-300]m tapering off to 60% at 450m .... and had an absolute range of 600m it would encourage snipers to pick up closer more tactical positions 4. Scope Sway Reduce scope sway by (10-15)% across all tiers and remove the reset while strafing..... and have a more consistent hip fire 5. Damage/Rate of fire Current model The charge variant - 50 rpm (higher damage) The standard variant - 50 rpm (moderate damage) The tactical variant - 100 rpm (lower damage) Proposed Changes The charge variant - 50 rpm (higher damage * 10%) The standard variant - 75 rpm (moderate damage * 10%) The tactical variant - 125 rpm (lower damage * 5%) "the damage/rate of fire changes are to balance the proposed range changes and make the sniper rifles more competitive" Final thoughts..... These changes would not only make true snipers much more effective but would drastically hinder redline snipers... it would allow snipers to get closer to the battle without encouraging too much quick scoping(YOLO 360 no scopes FTW).... allowing snipers to either follow behind a squad or support from a distance...."but alas I more often than not snipe from within 200m of the objective so I may have hurt the tower sniper in some way please make suggestions for mechanics and I may add them to the list :D" disclaimer This is somewhat good.. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that. NK are my Teeth, Kin Cats are my Legs.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5618	Posted - 2014.08.05 08:19:00 - [63] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: KDR matchmaking This is a terrible idea. A (non-redline) sniper with 10/0 has a "better" K/D than a guy who went 16/2 on the front lines, but while useful, WASN'T more valuable without teammates keeping the enemy at the ideal distance for the sniper to get kills. Neither of those players is more useful than the medic who goes 0/3 but prevents 5+ deaths with a repair tool AND revives the 7/2 guy both times he's taken down as well as reviving several other players to make their deaths not count. K/D matchmaking would define the medic - who provided MORE of an advantage to the team than the others - as a less successful player. When dealing with straight combat gameplay with no healing or reviving allowed, K/D based matchmaking is often - but not always - a good measure of skill. In DUST and other games where players can focus on roles other than direct combat, it doesn't work. Tankers and snipers would end up being ripped away from those teammates who make their playstyles viable, and medics will be lumped in with utterly useless players in spite of being significantly more skilled than their K/D implies.
Smoky Fingers Red Star. EoN. 437	Posted - 2014.08.05 08:32:00 - [64] - Quote How bout get rid of the orange hit indicator, and watch 3/4 of the sniper community (basically the incompetent ones) fail miserably. Playing RL
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 324	Posted - 2014.08.05 10:11:00 - [65] - Quote You know if you guys got off your ass and learned how to snipe and always had a sniper on your squad ensuring that at least one person would be able to counter snipe. Then maybe you wouldnt be sitting here typing on the forums looking for ways to nerf snipers into uselessness. Since when have snipers in the real world EVER gotten as close to their target as you are suggesting should happen in this game? The closest any sniper should be is 400m from their intended target and even further if necessary. The idea behind snipers is for them to be too far out of your range as to be almost unkillable. Which is why you all need to stop the nerf/buff convo and start learning how to counter snipe those snipers you hate so much and stop trying to ruin the only good weapon in this game. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 324	Posted - 2014.08.05 10:19:00 - [66] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: Yeah I'm tired of non factor players doing 200 damage from red line (3 shot clip) with a 4 second reload too SARCASM. that's the problem I would rather they participate in the battle than sit in the redline getting maybe 1 kill........ its all about bodies on the objective look we could go back and forth but I think we want the same thing and that's for sniping to be fixed :D Sniping isnt broken. You people would realize this if you ever sniped a day in your life in this game. And since you havent, otherwise you would be telling them what im telling you, then you got no right to complain. The idea behind being a sniper is to be so far from your target that they cant fight back. And you only need two people on an outside objective 1 being a scout with hacking capabilties (in case there are too many for the sniper to kill) and the second one being a sniper that has their eye trained on the objective and surrounding terrain. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off
Leanna Boghin Paradox Pride 324	Posted - 2014.08.05 10:30:00 - [67] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Shots originating from beyond the redline do no damage. Next. It would have to be both ways or it would be a killing field for camping the enemy redline. In the case of both ways, I've been proposing a bullet barrier for ages but its not a popular idea with CCP or the community. probably because then people could just hide in the redline and tease the enemy and say "haha you cant kill me" while dancing around in front of them. Trust me putting up a bullet barrier wont work not for a game like dust. I snipe in the redline because i know it pisses you off
Bad Heal Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 150	Posted - 2014.08.05 12:08:00 - [68] - Quote End Is Here wrote: No no no..... The ONLY problem with snipers right now is some of the shots are'nt causing any damage. Right now they are actually handicapped. That is punishment enough. The damage mod nerf turned a lot of people away from sniping. ALL because everyone had to have all the suit variations. Caldari would have been stone cold killers and everyone would have played the favortism card. HOWEVER, IRL bullets lose velosity over long distances. In dust, they are constant and never lose speed. Bullets should not do full damage all the way accross the map. I'm sure you do realize that there is a sweet spot were there bullet has lost enough speed to put a grape fruit sized hole in your back.
Zindorak 1.U.P 248	Posted - 2014.08.05 12:17:00 - [69] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: I think its universally agreed that sniping in dust is pretty crappy looking from either side of the scope :D......... my proposals are made to discourage redline sniping while making sniping much more effective.... 1. Changes to clip size...... Currently there are 3 sniper variants The tactical variant - 3 rounds in a clip The charge variant - 5 rounds a clip The standard variant - 5 rounds in a clip proposed changes The charge variant - 3 rounds a clip The standard variant - 4 rounds in a clip The tactical variant - 5 rounds in a clip 2. Headshot Multiplier Currently in game there is a 195% headshot multiplier........ " In my personal experience its a lot faster and easier to line up two body shots than one headshot "...... there should be a higher head shot multiplier 250% would offer more incentive to line up headshots 3. Range "edited" Currently sniper riffles have an effective and absolute range from [1- 599]m this means there is no reason other than vantage or over watch "mind you these are pretty big reasons" for a sniper to leave the redline.... but if the effective range of a sniper was [1-300]m tapering off to 60% at 450m .... and had an absolute range of 600m it would encourage snipers to pick up closer more tactical positions 4. Scope Sway Reduce scope sway by (10-15)% across all tiers and remove the reset while strafing..... and have a more consistent hip fire 5. Damage/Rate of fire Current model The charge variant - 50 rpm (higher damage) The standard variant - 50 rpm (moderate damage) The tactical variant - 100 rpm (lower damage) Proposed Changes The charge variant - 50 rpm (higher damage * 10%) The standard variant - 75 rpm (moderate damage * 10%) The tactical variant - 125 rpm (lower damage * 5%) "the damage/rate of fire changes are to balance the proposed range changes and make the sniper rifles more competitive" Final thoughts..... These changes would not only make true snipers much more effective but would drastically hinder redline snipers... it would allow snipers to get closer to the battle without encouraging too much quick scoping(YOLO 360 no scopes FTW).... allowing snipers to either follow behind a squad or support from a distance...."but alas I more often than not snipe from within 200m of the objective so I may have hurt the tower sniper in some way please make suggestions for mechanics and I may add them to the list :D" disclaimer Thank you an actually fair sniper buff. Thank you you get a pat on the back. Lets stop those scruby scumbags Master of the Scrambler Pistol. Carthum Assault ScP <3
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 292	Posted - 2014.08.05 15:57:00 - [70] - Quote Leanna Boghin wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Shots originating from beyond the redline do no damage. Next. It would have to be both ways or it would be a killing field for camping the enemy redline. In the case of both ways, I've been proposing a bullet barrier for ages but its not a popular idea with CCP or the community. probably because then people could just hide in the redline and tease the enemy and say "haha you cant kill me" while dancing around in front of them. Trust me putting up a bullet barrier wont work not for a game like dust. And your team loses since the objective is outside the said bullet barrier... are we playing the same game?

OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 283	Posted - 2014.08.05 16:32:00 - [71] - Quote I agree that a RoF increase would fix most of a sniper's problems. However I'm not too sure about nerfing the range. You're asking to get overpowered by railgun tank counter-snipers if you nerf the sniper's range below 300. To be honest I stopped blaming snipers for being in their own redline a long time ago. Specifically when 1.8 dropped. If you have a problem with getting killed by snipers in this game, you're a scrub. And no-scoping doesn't need to be discouraged. It's ******* terrible and more difficult in this game than any other FPS I've played. Speaking of other games I'd like to see a semi-auto rifle with a sniper scope in this game. Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14 Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
wiseguy12 Ancient Legion 61	Posted - 2014.08.05 16:43:00 - [72] - Quote I just wish you didn't need a proto sniper to 1 shot starter fits *Eye of the Reaper*
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 292	Posted - 2014.08.05 16:46:00 - [73] - Quote wiseguy12 wrote: I just wish you didn't need a proto sniper to 1 shot starter fits If you hit them in the head even a militia sniper rifle with no damage mods will one shot a starter fit. If it didn't, you missed their head. Only Heavies and proto medium suits can tank a headshot and they won't do it again unless it's a proto bear. If it's a proto bear then that thing is going to be moving like a couch dragged across a rug so just keep firing till it's dead.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 292	Posted - 2014.08.05 16:49:00 - [74] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: I agree that a RoF increase would fix most of a sniper's problems. However I'm not too sure about nerfing the range. You're asking to get overpowered by railgun tank counter-snipers if you nerf the sniper's range below 300. To be honest I stopped blaming snipers for being in their own redline a long time ago. Specifically when 1.8 dropped. If you have a problem with getting killed by snipers in this game, you're a scrub. And no-scoping doesn't need to be discouraged. It's ******* terrible and more difficult in this game than any other FPS I've played. Speaking of other games I'd like to see a semi-auto rifle with a sniper scope in this game. Not everyone is in a tank yo, and a good sniper will put you down in a field which is half the maps. I wouldn't say someone is a scrub for getting killed by a sniper, but some maps you are a scrub if a sniper is killing you. Some maps give good view of the objectives even from your red line.


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