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Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3187
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Posted - 2014.05.24 06:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rattati, if there is one thing I can ask you to add in hotix alpha, could you entertain the idea of giving the min scout a base hack speed of 1.25? (this is not the hack bonus)
It currently has a 1.1 according to the sheet released in the devblog back in March.
Somehow the min logi in comparison has a 1.2 hack speed base.
It really needs to have a 1.25 base hack speed if you could to give it an edge when it's trying to min max stealth, or the gal scout and min scout will compete, I think it's worth giving it a defined edge over the gal scout with it's 4 low.
Just my opinion.
Does that make sense?
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3196
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Posted - 2014.05.24 09:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
ANYBODY!?
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
110
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Posted - 2014.05.24 09:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Makes sense to me. You really need 2 code breakers to speed hack properly, but you will probably need 2 dampeners following the changes. Increased base hack speed may help keep min scouts on the competitive scene.
Never done PC though so I don't really know. |
Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
5741
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Posted - 2014.05.24 12:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Link to the dev blog. If I remember correctly they remove the hack bonus on Logistics to accomodate the Minmatar Scout.
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Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
475
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Posted - 2014.05.24 12:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Link to the dev blog. If I remember correctly they remove the hack bonus on Logistics to accomodate the Minmatar Scout.
Min Logi bonus was reduced, not removed.
Edit - reduced value was placed innately on the suit
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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Bormir1r
The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance
413
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Posted - 2014.05.24 13:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Rattati, if there is one thing I can ask you to add in hotix alpha, could you entertain the idea of giving the min scout a base hack speed of 1.25? (this is not the hack bonus)
It currently has a 1.1 according to the sheet released in the devblog back in March.
Somehow the min logi in comparison has a 1.2 hack speed base.
It really needs to have a 1.25 base hack speed if you could to give it an edge when it's trying to min max stealth, or the gal scout and min scout will compete, I think it's worth giving it a defined edge over the gal scout with it's 4 low.
Just my opinion.
Does that make sense?
Not a bad idea, however the problem is max stealth is hindered by the lack of dampening for the scout. I don't understand how Minmatar scouts are supposed to be infiltration when it's always scanned by passive scans. I think another buff the mk.0 scout should get is for the NK, where you can charge them while sprinting. That would honestly make the minja so much better at it's role, because half the time when you're running to NK someone, your base walking speed is slower than their sprint speed, so you end up taking awhile to catch up to them.
"One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s.
Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
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Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3224
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Posted - 2014.05.24 14:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Link to the dev blog. If I remember correctly they remove the hack bonus on Logistics to accomodate the Minmatar Scout.
Even so the main contention is the give it a definitive edge over gal scouts that can compete with it when both are attempting to ninja hack undetectably.
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5553
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 19:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Increase the hax!
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
100
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Posted - 2014.05.24 20:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
I agree. The dampening nerf on the cloak is going to force the Min Scout to sacrifice hack speed for dampeners.
Although I think there is a problem here that can't be addressed by increasing the base hack speed. That being the Caldari Scout.
Even with dampeners the Caldari Scout is now going to negate Minmatar's efforts to dampen.
GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé
IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê]
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Ghost Kaisar
The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance
4876
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Posted - 2014.05.24 22:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Increasing the Base hack up to 1.25 means that a PRO Min Scout with Hack V will have a base hack w/o codebreakers at 1.9 Factor
This means that you hack 1.9 "Units" per second. Units per hack is 10. This means you will have a 5.26s Hack speed w/o modules.
Slap on a single codebreaker. This jumps up to 2.4 "Units" per second. This gives you a 4.2s Hack speed.
Max you can get?
3.06 Units per second. Or roughly a 3 second hack.
This is a good change, as it doesn't make their max hack any faster. The max is still around 3s
This does mean that a Min Scout with 2 damps and a codebreaker will hack faster than a Gal or Amarr who try to use the extra low slot to do the same job. This prevents their role theft, and solidifies their abilities as the "Ninja Hackers"
It's good in my book!
Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP
PSN: EVL_Elgost105
RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
1640
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Posted - 2014.05.24 22:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bormir1r wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Rattati, if there is one thing I can ask you to add in hotix alpha, could you entertain the idea of giving the min scout a base hack speed of 1.25? (this is not the hack bonus)
It currently has a 1.1 according to the sheet released in the devblog back in March.
Somehow the min logi in comparison has a 1.2 hack speed base.
It really needs to have a 1.25 base hack speed if you could to give it an edge when it's trying to min max stealth, or the gal scout and min scout will compete, I think it's worth giving it a defined edge over the gal scout with it's 4 low.
Just my opinion.
Does that make sense? Not a bad idea, however the problem is max stealth is hindered by the lack of dampening for the scout. I don't understand how Minmatar scouts are supposed to be infiltration when it's always scanned by passive scans. I think another buff the mk.0 scout should get is for the NK, where you can charge them while sprinting. That would honestly make the minja so much better at it's role, because half the time when you're running to NK someone, your base walking speed is slower than their sprint speed, so you end up taking awhile to catch up to them. This would also help in that I wouldn't have to worry about someone stopping in the middle of my sprint charge jump such that I leapfrog them and give them an easy kill. I hate when that happens.
"I've made a huge mistake."
-G.O.B. Bluth
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5557
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Posted - 2014.05.24 22:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
I was going to do the math for a comparison between a 3 damp gal w/ code breaker and a 3 damp minnie but I just read Ghost's post. Good stuff mr. kaiser.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3242
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Posted - 2014.05.24 22:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thanks ghost for confirming the leg work for me.
The min needs to be not just marginally better, but have a definitive edge in the realm of ninja hacking.
I think think is a minor tweak we can all get behind.
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
1738
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Posted - 2014.05.25 01:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Thanks ghost for confirming the leg work for me.
The min needs to be not just marginally better, but have a definitive edge in the realm of ninja hacking.
I think think is a minor tweak we can all get behind.
It certainly seems well thought out.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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THUNDERGROOVE
The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance
832
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Posted - 2014.05.25 01:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
What Bor said.
I passive scan Min scouts all the time in my lolAmarr scout.
TDBS
Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
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Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3256
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Posted - 2014.05.25 01:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
OMG can tell you min scouts everywhere would love you
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3969
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 03:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:OMG can tell you min scouts everywhere would love you
I loved the Min Scout pre1.8. On paper it got a huge buff, but I don't enjoy the suit at all. Granted I think it's the bi-product of the cloak that is more to blame than anything.
This would be a great change!
Make it happen CCP!!
Level 3 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
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Ghost Kaisar
The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance
4885
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Posted - 2014.05.25 04:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:I was going to do the math for a comparison between a 3 damp gal w/ code breaker and a 3 damp minnie but I just read Ghost's post. Good stuff mr. kaiser.
Why thank you Mr. Moody!
EDIT:
"NOTICE ME SENPAI"
Oh god my sides
Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP
PSN: EVL_Elgost105
RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
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Den-tredje Baron
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
271
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Posted - 2014.05.25 18:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'm behind this good idea
Gall can hide, call can see, minm can hack and slash and amarr can ...... run ??
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Meee One
BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo
785
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Posted - 2014.05.25 22:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Increasing the Base hack up to 1.25 means that a PRO Min Scout with Hack V will have a base hack w/o codebreakers at 1.9 Factor
This means that you hack 1.9 "Units" per second. Units per hack is 10. This means you will have a 5.26s Hack speed w/o modules.
Slap on a single codebreaker. This jumps up to 2.4 "Units" per second. This gives you a 4.2s Hack speed.
Max you can get?
3.06 Units per second. Or roughly a 3 second hack.
This is a good change, as it doesn't make their max hack any faster. The max is still around 3s
This does mean that a Min Scout with 2 damps and a codebreaker will hack faster than a Gal or Amarr who try to use the extra low slot to do the same job.This prevents their role theft, and solidifies their abilities as the "Ninja Hackers"
It's good in my book! Lol Such hypocrisy,talking about role theft in a thread about making a scout better than its logi counterpart.
-1 I disagree for a faster speed.
Logis are supposed to be the best at logistical work. EG. Supplies,capturing secured buildings/installations.
Scouts are supposed to be better at stealth hacks,not faster hackers.
Logis give up base stats and a sidearm to assaults...don't make them sacrifice for scouts too.
I would suggest a bonus that would be more scout oriented instead of stealing from logis.
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Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3290
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Posted - 2014.05.25 23:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rofl, if you didn't know bud, the min scout is SUPPOSED to be the fast hacker.
Hence it's bonus to hack speed.
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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Meee One
BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo
787
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Posted - 2014.05.26 14:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Rofl, if you didn't know bud, the min scout is SUPPOSED to be a fast hacker.
Hence it's bonus to hack speed. FTFY
The bonus of which you speak was originally on the Min logi...
And now has been integrated into the suit itself.
Don't get arrogant and think it was always there.
Logis require cover while scouts can do it solo because of their stealth and speed.
Logis should be the fastest hackers,just as scouts are the sneakiest suits.
Each suit has it's roles very well defined.
Heavy:point defense Mediums/assault:frontline attacker Logis:Supply/acquisition (hacking) Light/Scouts:stealth/subterfuge (stealth hacking)
Logis hacking is fastest because it isn't hidden. Scouts trade hack speed for stealth.
tl;dr The installations are all yellow (logi colored) why wouldn't a logi have the advantage hacking them?
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Spartan MK420
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
406
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Posted - 2014.05.26 14:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Thanks ghost for confirming the leg work for me.
The min needs to be not just marginally better, but have a definitive edge in the realm of ninja hacking.
I think think is a minor tweak we can all get behind. It certainly seems well thought out.
honestly, the hack modules should go into the high slots, and the min logi should be nerfed to other logi hack speeds
Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
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Meee One
BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo
787
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Posted - 2014.05.26 14:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Spartan MK420 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Thanks ghost for confirming the leg work for me.
The min needs to be not just marginally better, but have a definitive edge in the realm of ninja hacking.
I think think is a minor tweak we can all get behind. It certainly seems well thought out. honestly, the hack modules should go into the high slots, and the min logi should be nerfed to other logi hack speeds "Kill our lifeblood" he says.
Lolno. Logistics should be the best at logistical work,not scouts.
Scouts should never be a "one man army" they should have to rely on logis just like logis have to rely on other suits for cover.
Any more "buffs" would only exaserbate the current assault scout plague.
TL;DR It's called logistics for a reason,it's a battle field engineer.
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Ghost Kaisar
The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance
4913
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Posted - 2014.05.26 14:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Increasing the Base hack up to 1.25 means that a PRO Min Scout with Hack V will have a base hack w/o codebreakers at 1.9 Factor
This means that you hack 1.9 "Units" per second. Units per hack is 10. This means you will have a 5.26s Hack speed w/o modules.
Slap on a single codebreaker. This jumps up to 2.4 "Units" per second. This gives you a 4.2s Hack speed.
Max you can get?
3.06 Units per second. Or roughly a 3 second hack.
This is a good change, as it doesn't make their max hack any faster. The max is still around 3s
This does mean that a Min Scout with 2 damps and a codebreaker will hack faster than a Gal or Amarr who try to use the extra low slot to do the same job.This prevents their role theft, and solidifies their abilities as the "Ninja Hackers"
It's good in my book! Lol Such hypocrisy,talking about role theft in a thread about making a scout better than its logi counterpart. -1 I disagree for a faster speed. Logis are supposed to be the best at logistical work. EG. Supplies,capturing secured buildings/installations. Scouts are supposed to be better at stealth hacks,not faster hackers. Currently the only base stat Min logis accel in is hack speed. Logis give up base stats and a sidearm to assaults...don't make them sacrifice for scouts too. I would suggest a bonus that would be more scout oriented instead of stealing from logis. For example:Min scout gains a % dampening bonus while hacking. This would make them harder to detect,more fitting to the "stealth hacker" role.
Min Logi's have a role. If you didn't know, they get in INSANE boost to the Rep tool, which makes them invaluable in PC.
What role does the Min Scout have? NOTHING.
The move to make them the speed hackers was a smart one, it allows them to use their stealth to quickly take care of a lone defender and hack a point quickly. Then they defend it.
You want the Logi to be the hacker? Then give me a bonus that makes me PC viable.
EDIT:
Gimme a sec, actually just read the post.
Holy Hell that's stupid.
IF YOU'RE HACKING AN OBJECTIVE, EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS WHERE YOU ARE. THAT LETTER FLASHES FOR F*CKS SAKE!
Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP
PSN: EVL_Elgost105
RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
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Meee One
BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo
787
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Posted - 2014.05.26 14:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Meee One wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Increasing the Base hack up to 1.25 means that a PRO Min Scout with Hack V will have a base hack w/o codebreakers at 1.9 Factor
This means that you hack 1.9 "Units" per second. Units per hack is 10. This means you will have a 5.26s Hack speed w/o modules.
Slap on a single codebreaker. This jumps up to 2.4 "Units" per second. This gives you a 4.2s Hack speed.
Max you can get?
3.06 Units per second. Or roughly a 3 second hack.
This is a good change, as it doesn't make their max hack any faster. The max is still around 3s
This does mean that a Min Scout with 2 damps and a codebreaker will hack faster than a Gal or Amarr who try to use the extra low slot to do the same job.This prevents their role theft, and solidifies their abilities as the "Ninja Hackers"
It's good in my book! Lol Such hypocrisy,talking about role theft in a thread about making a scout better than its logi counterpart. -1 I disagree for a faster speed. Logis are supposed to be the best at logistical work. EG. Supplies,capturing secured buildings/installations. Scouts are supposed to be better at stealth hacks,not faster hackers. Currently the only base stat Min logis accel in is hack speed. Logis give up base stats and a sidearm to assaults...don't make them sacrifice for scouts too. I would suggest a bonus that would be more scout oriented instead of stealing from logis. For example:Min scout gains a % dampening bonus while hacking. This would make them harder to detect,more fitting to the "stealth hacker" role. Min Logi's have a role. If you didn't know, they get in INSANE boost to the Rep tool, which makes them invaluable in PC. What role does the Min Scout have? NOTHING. The move to make them the speed hackers was a smart one, it allows them to use their stealth to quickly take care of a lone defender and hack a point quickly. Then they defend it. You want the Logi to be the hacker? Then give me a bonus that makes me PC viable. EDIT: Gimme a sec, actually just read the post. Holy Hell that's stupid. IF YOU'RE HACKING AN OBJECTIVE, EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS WHERE YOU ARE. THAT LETTER FLASHES FOR F*CKS SAKE! There's more to hack then just NULL cannons.
Here's a sample list of things that can be hacked without them alerting your enemies: -Vehicles -CRUs -Supply depots -Turret installations
Scouts should never be bold enough to charge a point. They should focus on subterfuge... For example: -Sneaking pass enemies to hack a CRU that your allies can assault from.
Just as logistics isn't meant to charge a point by itself,scouts shouldn't be able to either. These are both support units designed to keep others fighting,not to fight themselves.
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Meee One
BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo
787
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Posted - 2014.05.26 15:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2180320#post2180320
If the above idea is put in Min scouts could have an innately low dB to hacking,while Amarr scouts could have an innately low dB to killing.
This is a scout worthy bonus,and would allow each scout to be the best at something stealth related.
Min:Stealth hack Gal:Stealth dampening Cal:Stealth scanning Amarr:Stealth killing
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Ghost Kaisar
The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance
4915
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Posted - 2014.05.26 15:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Meee One wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Increasing the Base hack up to 1.25 means that a PRO Min Scout with Hack V will have a base hack w/o codebreakers at 1.9 Factor
This means that you hack 1.9 "Units" per second. Units per hack is 10. This means you will have a 5.26s Hack speed w/o modules.
Slap on a single codebreaker. This jumps up to 2.4 "Units" per second. This gives you a 4.2s Hack speed.
Max you can get?
3.06 Units per second. Or roughly a 3 second hack.
This is a good change, as it doesn't make their max hack any faster. The max is still around 3s
This does mean that a Min Scout with 2 damps and a codebreaker will hack faster than a Gal or Amarr who try to use the extra low slot to do the same job.This prevents their role theft, and solidifies their abilities as the "Ninja Hackers"
It's good in my book! Lol Such hypocrisy,talking about role theft in a thread about making a scout better than its logi counterpart. -1 I disagree for a faster speed. Logis are supposed to be the best at logistical work. EG. Supplies,capturing secured buildings/installations. Scouts are supposed to be better at stealth hacks,not faster hackers. Currently the only base stat Min logis accel in is hack speed. Logis give up base stats and a sidearm to assaults...don't make them sacrifice for scouts too. I would suggest a bonus that would be more scout oriented instead of stealing from logis. For example:Min scout gains a % dampening bonus while hacking. This would make them harder to detect,more fitting to the "stealth hacker" role. Min Logi's have a role. If you didn't know, they get in INSANE boost to the Rep tool, which makes them invaluable in PC. What role does the Min Scout have? NOTHING. The move to make them the speed hackers was a smart one, it allows them to use their stealth to quickly take care of a lone defender and hack a point quickly. Then they defend it. You want the Logi to be the hacker? Then give me a bonus that makes me PC viable. EDIT: Gimme a sec, actually just read the post. Holy Hell that's stupid. IF YOU'RE HACKING AN OBJECTIVE, EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS WHERE YOU ARE. THAT LETTER FLASHES FOR F*CKS SAKE! There's more to hack then just NULL cannons. Here's a sample list of things that can be hacked without them alerting your enemies: -Vehicles -CRUs -Supply depots -Turret installations Scouts should never be bold enough to charge a point. They should focus on subterfuge... For example: -Sneaking pass enemies to hack a CRU that your allies can assault from. Just as logistics isn't meant to charge a point by itself,scouts shouldn't be able to either. These are both support units designed to keep others fighting,not to fight themselves.
They all still give notifications EXCEPT for vehicles.
And no pilot in PC is ever going to let you hack his vehicle. It just doesn't happen.
In PC, NOBODY uses CRU's. They simply aren't as viable as uplinks.
They need a ROLE in PC, and that role of speed hacker is perfect for them.
Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP
PSN: EVL_Elgost105
RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
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Spartan MK420
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
406
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Posted - 2014.05.26 16:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
burn the logis at the stake! default hacking bonus for all! buwahahaha
Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
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Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3300
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Posted - 2014.05.28 03:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bump. I am hoping for a clear answer on whether we can have this implemented! <3
CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1
Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
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