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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
755
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Posted - 2014.05.24 20:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
killian178 wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:I don't understand why infantry doesn't quit there whining, skill into AV, and take us out themselves.
FFS, one match ONE GUY with standard swarms kept me from getting kills because even though he didn't do enough damage to kill me, he did enough damage to scare me away, while he was hiding in a spot that is inconvenient for me to try to kill him.
Skill into forges or swarms, quit crying like little babies, if you think it's so easy to steamroll in an ADS why don't you try it?
Oh yeah that's right, cause it's not easy.
As for prices on vehicles, as long as there are double damage mod sicas that can two hit my 500k ISK Maddy I think the price is fair. Oh, and Jihad Jeeps too. you must be trolling. No,that's a legitimate statement. My ads fit is about 600k isk, 700k gunnlogi. Cheap tanks get squished easy, but that's kinda the point. Yes AV is UP but any, I mean ANY tank or ads can be taking out, solo even; the question is, do you have the moxxy to get the job done?
Do you? Join A/V UNITED channel and show it.
Because, that's why.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
755
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Posted - 2014.05.24 20:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Well, the intent was to both recognize that and take steps to adress it by buffing AV through grenades and the PLC while reducing the Blaster efficiency against infantry. You also have to take into consideration that tanking is too cheap at the moment. When tanks get destroyed it doesnt have a huge impact on the one running it because they are not expensive.... On the other hand when I lose my 525k dropship I feel it and that means I go negative for the next 3 matches minimum. Too cheap? Are you f***ing kidding me? My tank also costs over half a million, and I frequently lose multiple tanks per battle trying to battle those cheap ass glass Sicas. I can always win against one due to my experience but sh*t hits the fan when they spam them and one's on my ass right after I won against one of their scrub brethren. If anything vehicle prices need to be reduced. Or massive nerfs to militia and standard to reflect their low costs.
I think both. Tanks should be nerfed but made much cheaper. 70k tanks should be on par with 70k dropsuits.
Because, that's why.
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Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
100
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Posted - 2014.05.24 20:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Well, the intent was to both recognize that and take steps to adress it by buffing AV through grenades and the PLC while reducing the Blaster efficiency against infantry.
I hope you realize this just means we'll be seeing more Missile Tanks.
GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé
IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê]
GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
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Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1762
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Posted - 2014.05.25 03:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Well, the intent was to both recognize that and take steps to adress it by buffing AV through grenades and the PLC while reducing the Blaster efficiency against infantry. I hope you realize this just means we'll be seeing more Missile Tanks.
I hope you realize dispersion will barely change anything. It might actually make killing infantry easier, though no more uplink camping with headshots that's for sure 
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Will Driver
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
59
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Posted - 2014.05.26 07:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:Whatever guys.
Get tanks nerfed into the ground, it's not like I wanted to have fun playing anyway.
And no, I don't think AV vs Tank is balanced, but it's more balanced than people make it out to be. Try to use something other than remotes for AV Moody, you may be surprised how well it works.
Poor baby, my heart goes out to you. No fun when tank goes boom but love mowing down hapless infantry. What about the majority of players who are infantry, don't they get to have fun too, or was this game built just for you?
GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥
GÇò Albert Einstein
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4260
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Posted - 2014.05.26 10:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Well, the intent was to both recognize that and take steps to adress it by buffing AV through grenades and the PLC while reducing the Blaster efficiency against infantry.
You realize that the blaster is worthless against other tanks in a serious battle, right?
This will just further solidify the rail as being the only viable turret in the game. |
Derrith Erador
The Last of DusT.
1920
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Posted - 2014.05.26 12:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:I don't understand why infantry doesn't quit there whining, skill into AV, and take us out themselves.
FFS, one match ONE GUY with standard swarms kept me from getting kills because even though he didn't do enough damage to kill me, he did enough damage to scare me away, while he was hiding in a spot that is inconvenient for me to try to kill him.
Skill into forges or swarms, quit crying like little babies, if you think it's so easy to steamroll in an ADS why don't you try it?
Oh yeah that's right, cause it's not easy.
As for prices on vehicles, as long as there are double damage mod sicas that can two hit my 500k ISK Maddy I think the price is fair. Oh, and Jihad Jeeps too. you must be trolling.
Cyrus, you clearly haven't fought in an ADS before. Nor have you seen noob pilots (it's pretty hilarious). My main beef with this is that everyone wants to buff AV but the way CCP has done this before proves that it'll just be like the way it was pre 1.7, IE expensive and ineffective.
I can agree with you on blaster tanks, but the fact is that there is a way to take out a fully proto ADS with ease, it's called teamwork.
Very few pilots I know can avoid two sets of proto swarms synching their shots, it's possible. My personal opinion is that ADS and tanks, when fully spec'd into, shouldn't take one guy with a set of proto swarms to kill.
Betty White, the worlds hottest grandma.
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Last of DusT.
General Tso's Alliance
2287
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Posted - 2014.05.26 12:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Well, the intent was to both recognize that and take steps to adress it by buffing AV through grenades and the PLC while reducing the Blaster efficiency against infantry. The blaster is worthless against other tanks in a serious battle. This will just further solidify the rail as being the only viable turret in the game. If you were going to cripple large blasters versus infantry then you needed to do the following. 1. Cripple the Rail's rate of fire. (OR reduce the effectiveness of rail damage mods) 2. Cripple the blaster's accuracy. (like the old scatter cannons, but a bit more extreme) 3. GREATLY boost the blasters damage output against vehicles. 4. Decrease missile spread and adjust shield multiplier (from -20% to -10%) 5. Slightly increase range to Rail's. This would have ensured every large turret type was usable against vehicles at the highest tier of competition within their range of choice. Currently if you don't run rail, you're either suppressing infantry or being worthless. Removing the one thing blasters do is going to make that a lot more black and white.
This would work better.
Tanker/Logi
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
969
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Posted - 2014.05.26 17:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Well, the intent was to both recognize that and take steps to adress it by buffing AV through grenades and the PLC while reducing the Blaster efficiency against infantry. The blaster is worthless against other tanks in a serious battle. This will just further solidify the rail as being the only viable turret in the game. If you were going to cripple large blasters versus infantry then you needed to do the following. 1. Cripple the Rail's rate of fire. (OR reduce the effectiveness of rail damage mods) 2. Cripple the blaster's accuracy. (like the old scatter cannons, but a bit more extreme) 3. GREATLY boost the blasters damage output against vehicles. 4. Increase damage to Missiles. 5. Slightly increase range to Rail's. This would have ensured every large turret type was usable against vehicles at the highest tier of competition within their range of choice. Currently if you don't run rail, you're either suppressing infantry or being worthless. Removing the one thing blasters do is going to make that a lot more black and white.
I completely disagree with that first statement. Blasters ARE NOT USELESS against other vehicles, particularly shield vehicles. But when faced with a rails, I do understand how it can seem that way.
Boosting the blaster damage while crippling the rails, I think, would shift the power in the blaster madrudgers favor. Making it the new OP go to fit. Not only could you take out infantry MUCH easier, but gunnlogis would crumble in seconds. Madrudgers would be king again.
This make me wonder, does the problem lay within the turrets themselves, or perhaps the tanks? I do see the turrets as a problem, but not in the way most other do. The problem I see is that the turrets are too static, as well as tanks.
You have a single blaster, that is trying to fulfill the role of AV, while maintaining effectiveness in the AI department. Missiles are OP against armor, but crap against hardened shields. And rails are the end to any vehicle.
Where is our AV blaster for dealing with tanks?
Where is our long range siege rail, extreme range and low damage?
Wtf can we do about missiles (these have ALWAYS been lost)
Where is the variety? We need to quit trying to cram everything into the 3 turret types and actually create turrets with specific roles.
For example, let's take the rails.
-High damage, short range, low rate of fire, slower tracking. Let's call this the shotgun rail. Kinda like what we got now, this is our brawler. Range of 250m sounds about right
-Low damage, Long range, High rate of fire, Decent tracking. Our siege rails. They won't outright kill targets, but soften them for other tankers on the field, or AV. Though concentrate enough fire and you can take out targets.
Or blasters
-AI, Short range, does more damage to infantry and less to vehicles, good tracking. Think 100M range max, and damage cut in half against vehicles. Want to improve your AV capabilities, slap small turrets on it and call in some gunners.
-AV, double range of the AI, reduced effectiveness against infantry and full damage to vehicles, good tracking. So 200M range, does basically no damage to infantry, but decent damage output to vehicles. The key here though is the range.
Currently, a blaster can easily drop infantry out to 200M even if they are applying less damage due to the range. But hit a vehicle at that range and it barely scratches the paint. The most useful AV attribute is RANGE I believe when it comes to turrets.
Variety, that's what is missing. Things need to be broke down into smaller parts and quit trying to fulfill multiple roles. Or something like that. It just seems to me that we need more to balance against to help normalize numbers. Like AV needs variants, tanks need that too.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
969
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Posted - 2014.05.26 17:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:
My personal opinion is that ADS and tanks, when fully spec'd into, shouldn't take one guy with a set of proto swarms to kill.
They should have to work for that kill, for sure. Even if I go AV now, while my swarms won't kill them, it certainly gives them pause and reduces the time they can stick with an engagement.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
75
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Posted - 2014.05.26 18:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
I wonder why this has spiraled into such a qq tornado?
They added +75 for damaging a vehicle. Twice before death which still gives the same reward. With an ADS it is easy to drive them away. This gives 75-150WP and a little breathing room for the troops. Taking down a vehicle (air) that is driven by a pilot that has skill is difficult and requires more than one mercenary with AV. Same for tanks.
The militia vehicles go down quickly when driven by new players or those that aren't/don't/won't pay attention. The weird multi damage mod versions have little protection so they hit really hard but die even quicker.
When I get hit hard while flying ADS I have to exit the immediate battle area. That or lose the very expensive ADS (which CCP had said they were going to make more affordable thus allowing me to hang around a bit longer - more points for AV).
The other bit that is rarely commented on is what weapons are you complaining about specifically? xt missiles in drop ships are monsters. ADS for certain (I rarely use the others so I have little data on them). The problem is the xt missiles are the only ones that produce consistent results. The others are barely worth fitting. That is also true for large blaster turrets. Using a militia/basic blaster will produce a frustrating string of hits (with a ton of misses) while rarely actually killing reds. If they are prototype users then no, they cannot be killed by those weapons. You need to upgrade to advanced or prototype to have a chance.
And if I am getting hit by prototype swarms or forge guns (or grenades) I leave. It is the only way to stay alive. When I am in squad I ask them to kill those specific reds and then my tank/ADS can return.
To top this absurd topic off this is how the developers want tankers to play. Waves of opportunity, rush in and attack, use modules wisely and retreat to let the modules recover, restock the ammunition and reload the weapon. Yet, we have av players that are still upset about this exact behavior.
Oh well, this is dust where all the qqs in the world just get lost in the dust. 
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
762
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Posted - 2014.05.26 20:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
We need to look at dropships and tanks separately. I think dropships and forges are pretty well balanced against each other, I can drive off a dropship with a forge, unless they or their squad, is just outplaying me and my squad. Swarms are just flat out broken , even proto swarms. I have been in many matches with at least two of us firing proto swarms and a dropship just ignores us as we fire volley after volley at it. We are hitting it, it just doesn't matter. Once they get taken into armor they can easily escape and rep so quickly that they literally just fly out of range and turn back immediately. Pilots can argue all they want but the fact is even a dropship without a pilot is hard to kill with swarms, sometimes impossible.
As to the argument that it should take more than one player to kill another player, what is your rationale for that? ISK? Should a proto dropsuit be literally impossible to kill with a militia AR? I mean the proto just stands there and can't be killed, because that is where we are wth swarms.
Because, that's why.
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Hakyou Brutor
G0DS AM0NG MEN
687
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Swarms are just flat out broken , even proto swarms. I have been in many matches with at least two of us firing proto swarms and a dropship just ignores us as we fire volley after volley at it.
When was the last time you used swarms? My Python is downed in 3 vollys of proto swarms.
"I never pull out" ~Ace Boone, 2014.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
764
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Posted - 2014.05.27 05:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Swarms are just flat out broken , even proto swarms. I have been in many matches with at least two of us firing proto swarms and a dropship just ignores us as we fire volley after volley at it. When was the last time you used swarms? My Python is downed in 3 vollys of proto swarms.
A couple of nights ago. I don't believe your Python went down in three volleys from swarms alone. I don't even want it to be that easy.
Because, that's why.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1037
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Posted - 2014.05.27 11:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Swarms are just flat out broken , even proto swarms. I have been in many matches with at least two of us firing proto swarms and a dropship just ignores us as we fire volley after volley at it. When was the last time you used swarms? My Python is downed in 3 vollys of proto swarms.
lolBS.
* Nyain San Python hovering over friendly spawn; hostile troops closing in. *
* Sneaked away from spawn using cloak; posted up behind bird just within max range of my WikiBubbleBlower. *
Volley 1 out ... bird didn't see it coming. Impact
Volley 2 out ... bird is now on the move; heading my way. Impact
Volley 3 out ... bird comes to a halt hovering overhead. Impact. OHKs me w/cycled missile launcher.
Observations:
Bird's shields were knocked out with first volley.
Second and Third volley had little-to-no effect on armor (remained around 80-90%).
Using Proficiency IV Proto BubbleBlower with two Complex Damage Amps.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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manboar thunder fist
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
37
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Posted - 2014.05.27 12:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lets be honest.. Ads prices are ridiculous.. For the highest skill role in the game.. Yes I dare you, counter me! I play infrantry, piece of cake, tanks? Ez mode... But ads? Basic swarms can knock me into a building and kill me, forge guns can 2 shot me with a 3 second delay between shots... And it takes me atleast 3 direct hits to kill them.. A rail tank can almost 1 shot me... Heck I got in a gunnlogi and killed 2 incubus dropships in 4 rounds.. They only hit their afterburner by the time they died...
I think the reps on tanks need to be reduced o the point where they can't shrug off an adv forge gun or a dau2 assault indefenitely, but we must take care as drop ships are already paper airplanes
1.8 will shoot my amarr logi in the face with an ion pistol then bury it under a caldari heavy.
No, not alive thankfully
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1037
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Posted - 2014.05.27 12:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
manboar thunder fist wrote:Lets be honest.. Ads prices are ridiculous.. For the highest skill role in the game.. Yes I dare you, counter me! I play infrantry, piece of cake, tanks? Ez mode... But ads? Basic swarms can knock me into a building and kill me, forge guns can 2 shot me with a 3 second delay between shots... And it takes me atleast 3 direct hits to kill them.. A rail tank can almost 1 shot me... Heck I got in a gunnlogi and killed 2 incubus dropships in 4 rounds.. They only hit their afterburner by the time they died...
I think the reps on tanks need to be reduced o the point where they can't shrug off an adv forge gun or a dau2 assault indefenitely, but we must take care as drop ships are already paper airplanes
Your spokesperson says ... Bullish
Anyhow, Rattati is on the move. Put your heads together figure this sh*t out before he gets to you.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3495
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Posted - 2014.05.27 14:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Vehicle damage mods get mentioned a lot. Let's address a little bit later.
Reducing Vehicle Damage mod bonuses, to bring them back in line with the Hardener Nerf, would have a couple benefits.
- It would increase TTK for tank battles. A tank battle that is over in 2 or 3 shots before you can react is frustrating. A tank battle where a tank is killed in 4 or 5 shots while each tank tries to out manoeuver the other, is quite fun even if you end up losing the engagement. A tank battle where a you put 7 or 8 shots into a tank and it gets away is getting frustrating again.
- If double damage mod tanks did less damage, then militia tanks would not be as powerful as they are now against other tanks. The extra slots of the Standard tanks would make more of a difference. Then the current price of militia tanks would be more in line with their abilities.
People often say that Militia tanks donGÇÖt cost enough. But I burned through 15 million ISK in about a month leaning to tank using Militia tanks. If the price is rased too much, it will be a barrier to new players trying to get into tanking. If the Damage mods were nerfed a bit, Melita tanks would not be quite so powerful. This combined with improvements to Infantry AV should reduce the problems with Milita tank spam.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.27 18:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think balance should focus on tank vs tank while mechanics should focus on making alll vehicles less effective against infantry. If it takes 2 or 3 average guys in pubs 2 kill triple rep Maddys fine, let it, but let that Maddt be less effective against them. I think vehicles should have more focus on vehicle vs vehicle, mand that way as AV sucks it wont matter as much. We can give that same thought to dropships, particularly missle based Cal DS, lets focus on more of anti tank, tansport, and air to air combat rather than vehicle vs infantry.... im not saying a 60,000 isk blaster tank shouldnt kill every proto suit in front of it, but can we just make it harder? Eh? Maybe infantry wouldn't focus so much on vehicles and would fight each other... |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
General Tso's Alliance
970
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 22:43:00 -
[50] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Vehicle damage mods get mentioned a lot. Let's address a little bit later. Reducing Vehicle Damage mod bonuses, to bring them back in line with the Hardener Nerf, would have a couple benefits. - It would increase TTK for tank battles. A tank battle that is over in 2 or 3 shots before you can react is frustrating. A tank battle where a tank is killed in 4 or 5 shots while each tank tries to out manoeuver the other, is quite fun even if you end up losing the engagement. A tank battle where a you put 7 or 8 shots into a tank and it gets away is getting frustrating again.
I'm more about having a tank battle that lasts most of a full clip. While before the major tank changes, a typical tank fight would go something like 7 or 8 shots and the tank gets away, yes frustrating.
Now though, I don't think it's nearly as bad as you do get something for your efforts, WP. I really don't know if 4 to 5 shots from a rail could really be considered a very long engagement. While it would give you time to react and disrupt their shots, you can almost count on the first 2 landing, meaning they just need 2 to 3 more shots. That's like 3 more seconds above the current TTK.
The way I imagine it is that a rail would need to actually watch overheat for one on one engagements. Right now the only thing overheat limits are the number of tanks I can blow up before needing to cooldown for the next one. One clip atm is like 3 dead tanks, stacking damage mods.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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