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Symbioticforks wrote:

It's not that enemies are getting "smarter at being able to avoid snipers"

It's that there has been an increase in health for any suit running armor plates. (combined with)

Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with)
Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with)
Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with)
No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with)
Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with)
Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with)
Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with)
Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with)
Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with)
Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with)
Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with)
Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with)
Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with)

I can keep coming up with stuff to show you how the game has changed, and not in favor of sniping. I'm probably missing a few easy ones I could have pointed out. Oh well! Nice talk.

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Scheneighnay McBob T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 5071	Posted - 2014.05.22 01:10:00 - [31] - Quote Atiim wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Sniper rifles are completely viable if you aren't a carebear about sniping. So then you'd use one in PC? Against a corp that isn't garbage? Yes. A sniper rifle is a weapon; it doesn't require you to try farming kills with it. Observe the amount of f*cks given
Eruditus 920 Prodigy Ops 103	Posted - 2014.05.22 01:12:00 - [32] - Quote Kinda off topic but i was sniped once from around 550m while i was cloaked and sprinting 9m p/s on a brightly lit map. I don't play as a sniper ever but i was impressed. Still hate them though. "It is well that war is so terrible, lest we should grow too fond of it." -Robert E. Lee
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8760	Posted - 2014.05.22 01:16:00 - [33] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Yes. A sniper rifle is a weapon; it doesn't require you to try farming kills with it. Well if that's the case, how about a proposition? Attack a Heaven's Lost Property district. In the PC, do absolutely nothing but snipe with the Sniper Rifle. If you place 3rd or higher with it, I'll pay you 60m as well as another 36m to cover the clone pack. But if you place lower than 3rd, then you have to pay me 50m, as well as make a thread saying that you were wrong about Sniper Rifles being viable. How's that sound? HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Scheneighnay McBob T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 5072	Posted - 2014.05.22 01:35:00 - [34] - Quote Atiim wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Yes. A sniper rifle is a weapon; it doesn't require you to try farming kills with it. Well if that's the case, how about a proposition? Attack a Heaven's Lost Property district. In the PC, do absolutely nothing but snipe with the Sniper Rifle. If you place 3rd or higher with it, I'll pay you 60m as well as another 36m to cover the clone pack. But if you place lower than 3rd, then you have to pay me 50m, as well as make a thread saying that you were wrong about Sniper Rifles being viable. How's that sound? If I place third or higher? Sniper rifles aren't meant for farming kills like your usual frontline d-bag. Ever hear of a (non-assault) dropship pilot placing 3rd or higher? Hell no. Are they useful? Hell yeah. WPs don't mean ***- especially in competitive game modes. Observe the amount of fcks given
End is Near Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 56	Posted - 2014.05.22 01:41:00 - [35] - Quote Atiim wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Yes. A sniper rifle is a weapon; it doesn't require you to try farming kills with it. Well if that's the case, how about a proposition? Attack a Heaven's Lost Property district. In the PC, do absolutely nothing but snipe with the Sniper Rifle. If you place 3rd or higher with it, I'll pay you 60m as well as another 36m to cover the clone pack. But if you place lower than 3rd, then you have to pay me 50m, as well as make a thread saying that you were wrong about Sniper Rifles being viable. How's that sound? LMAO!!!!!! I kill 30 plus every match, I pull out my thale. My WP beats out guys who get 40+ kills so I normally don't snipe. Most of you guys who are having problems with rendering.......STOP SNIPING FROM MCC ROOF. You have to be right at the edge to get past shields. You also need range modules. Same goes for hiding behind rocks. There are a few bugs that need fixed. Snipers need NO RANGE increase or damage increases. I can two shot 'most mercs'..... DOOOOOOOONGGGGGGG. Timing is EVERYTHING!
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8762	Posted - 2014.05.22 01:56:00 - [36] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: If I place third or higher? Sniper rifles aren't meant for farming kills like your usual frontline d-bag. Ever hear of a (non-assault) dropship pilot placing 3rd or higher? Hell no. Are they useful? Hell yeah. WPs don't mean ****- especially in competitive game modes. Considering how slaying is the only thing a Sniper is rewarded for, I'm going to go on a limb and say that your wrong. However, since you aren't CCP you stating what something is meant for is about as credible as this. Non-Assault Dropships are literal cannon-fodder in PC. They're so useless that it's not even funny. So then you would be fine with all of your actions yielding 0 WP in PC? I mean after all, WP doesn't mean anything competitive game-modes. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Scheneighnay McBob T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 5073	Posted - 2014.05.22 02:04:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: If I place third or higher? Sniper rifles aren't meant for farming kills like your usual frontline d-bag. Ever hear of a (non-assault) dropship pilot placing 3rd or higher? Hell no. Are they useful? Hell yeah. WPs don't mean ***- especially in competitive game modes. Considering how slaying is the only thing a Sniper is rewarded for, I'm going to go on a limb and say that your wrong. However, since you aren't CCP you stating what something is meant for is about as credible as this. Non-Assault Dropships are literal cannon-fodder in PC. They're so useless that it's not even funny. So then you would be fine with all of your actions yielding 0 WP in PC? I mean after all, WP doesn't mean anything competitive game-modes. Sniper rifles are extremely useful scout weapons- rather than sitting ass and pointing at a chokepoint like you seem to say you do, they're great for utility. You can scope out objectives (obviously being able to kill at the range you scope them out at) as well as sniping uplinks, which can be EXTREMELY useful. Plus what else is better for picking off AVers and other snipers? Observe the amount of fcks given
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 1927	Posted - 2014.05.22 02:11:00 - [38] - Quote The best thing you can do to make snipers fast paced and viable in all situations is remove sway. Never put AA on it.... But just remove sway completely it's an awesome mechanic and will be amazing in legion... But it just hinders the way DUST is setup with terrible map construction no multi level playability without dropship, barely any ladders no elevators... Barely any internal building structure... Snipers in DUST's maps are just that forgoten entity... CCP has even removed the "Peak" From "Manus Peak" Without knowing the true value of it and the problem of it... Because it was one of the only viable sniper spots CCP ever made. The problem with it was you had to Chance 10-12 second of "red-line" time to get to the Safe area where all the snipers where sitting. Another example of CCP's short sighted-ness.. We didnt need to remove the "Peak" From Manus Peak... we just needed to make the spot counterable. Everyone is fine with snipers having deadly vantage points if they can counter it and fight to get there through what ever enemies and defenses... It's why Red-line sniping is hated and snipers have no choice when the maps CCP has given them only give them so few with terrible spawn mechanics.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 935	Posted - 2014.05.22 02:17:00 - [39] - Quote Atiim wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Sniper rifles are completely viable if you aren't a carebear about sniping. So then you'd use one in PC? Against a corp that isn't garbage? BURN! Nice one dude. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 935	Posted - 2014.05.22 02:23:00 - [40] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: Kinda off topic but i was sniped once from around 550m while i was cloaked and sprinting 9m p/s on a brightly lit map. I don't play as a sniper ever but i was impressed. Still hate them though. I did that to a guy once (maybe you?). The funny thing is that I was charging my charge sniper rifle, then some scout did a drive-by, trying to cap my ass. I jumped up and my finger slipped off the trigger. BAM +50. I shot some random guy. I'm pretty sure he was cloaked because he was running a cloaked suit in the rest of the game. Then the scout did cap me. But it was a sweet death. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 870	Posted - 2014.05.22 02:34:00 - [41] - Quote * Increase headshot multiplier (for non-tactical variants) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 308	Posted - 2014.05.22 02:36:00 - [42] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: To be honest I think most people hate snipers so I am not sure there is enough time to make it viable in Dust. Maybe in legion where they appear to have larger maps so less need of a redzone. If you wanted to make it viable I think you would need a shorter range version with a faster scope with massively reduced jitter. the Tac AR lol?
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8770	Posted - 2014.05.22 02:40:00 - [43] - Quote End is Near wrote: LMAO!!!!!! I kill 30 plus every match, I pull out my thale. My WP beats out guys who get 40+ kills so I normally don't snipe. Most of you guys who are having problems with rendering.......STOP SNIPING FROM MCC ROOF. You have to be right at the edge to get past shields. You also need range modules. Same goes for hiding behind rocks. There are a few bugs that need fixed. Snipers need NO RANGE increase or damage increases. I can two shot 'most mercs'..... DOOOOOOOONGGGGGGG. Timing is EVERYTHING! I'm not even going to waste my time with forming a rebuttal to this anecdotal dribble. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 936	Posted - 2014.05.22 02:48:00 - [44] - Quote Atiim wrote: End is Near wrote: LMAO!!!!!! I kill 30 plus every match, I pull out my thale. My WP beats out guys who get 40+ kills so I normally don't snipe. Most of you guys who are having problems with rendering.......STOP SNIPING FROM MCC ROOF. You have to be right at the edge to get past shields. You also need range modules. Same goes for hiding behind rocks. There are a few bugs that need fixed. Snipers need NO RANGE increase or damage increases. I can two shot 'most mercs'..... DOOOOOOOONGGGGGGG. Timing is EVERYTHING! I'm not even going to waste my time with forming a rebuttal to this anecdotal dribble. Yah, it seems a bit excessive. 30+ kills? Every match? Hhhmmmm ... Sounds like you are a corp of one, End is Near. Look me up the next time you are playing, we'll join the same team, and you can school my noob ass. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
jace silencerww D3ATH CARD 16	Posted - 2014.05.22 03:15:00 - [45] - Quote the old scopes in chrome had zoom increased as you got to proto. bring those back plus the damage don't need a big change just about 5-7% plus the proficiency changed back to both shield and armor. that would be a lot better then now. most use thales because it is the only sr to really kill people with now. the only other way to boost your sr damage is USE caldari Commando for the 10% plus 3 complex damage mods. gives you about 20-22% damage boost.
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 31	Posted - 2014.05.22 04:01:00 - [46] - Quote Atiim wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: i use the laser rifle as my DMR style rifle, has the range and power to do well. Yes, however it doesn't require you to remain stationary, nor does it force you into a "tunnelvision" view. They aren't really comparable... compare it to bf4, the dmr's there only go up to a 4x scope, and hardly have tunnel vision, and you can use them on the move pretty well, besides, who cares? if i can use it like one then i can use it like one.
Riptalis Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2014.05.22 04:05:00 - [47] - Quote "Where is he?!"
jace silencerww D3ATH CARD 16	Posted - 2014.05.22 06:51:00 - [48] - Quote End is Near wrote: Atiim wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Yes. A sniper rifle is a weapon; it doesn't require you to try farming kills with it. Well if that's the case, how about a proposition? Attack a Heaven's Lost Property district. In the PC, do absolutely nothing but snipe with the Sniper Rifle. If you place 3rd or higher with it, I'll pay you 60m as well as another 36m to cover the clone pack. But if you place lower than 3rd, then you have to pay me 50m, as well as make a thread saying that you were wrong about Sniper Rifles being viable. How's that sound? LMAO!!!!!! I kill 30 plus every match, I pull out my thale. My WP beats out guys who get 40+ kills so I normally don't snipe. Most of you guys who are having problems with rendering.......STOP SNIPING FROM MCC ROOF. You have to be right at the edge to get past shields. You also need range modules. Same goes for hiding behind rocks. There are a few bugs that need fixed. Snipers need NO RANGE increase or damage increases. I can two shot 'most mercs'..... DOOOOOOOONGGGGGGG. Timing is EVERYTHING! lol range, scan precision, dampners mods do NOTHING for the snipe rifle those ONLY effect you radar in the upper right hand corner. THOSE DO NOT change any thing on any weapon or what you can see with your weapon
Valko Maddog The Awesome Gang 1	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:29:00 - [49] - Quote I do use sniper often even if it is not my main preference. I have it leveled to prof 3 to use thale's. I redline snipe only with Thale's as i have only 25. other than that I play tac sniper on Amarr Commando with ScR or AScR and I snipe on all maps when it is necessary and usefullm but I play actively and hack objectives and cover my squad. bring the snipers in game out of red line by decreasing the sniper range to 300m, increasing the damage a bit , apply hit detection to snipers and remove or drasticly decrease the sway with sniper lvl 5 (not 5% per lvl but 20% or even 25%) to be able to snipe standing. Run, snipe, hack, shoot with second weapon, snipe, run with your squad and snipe behind them. now as we have some reliable sidearms a sniper can be active player.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.05.22 09:57:00 - [50] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: It's not that enemies are getting "smarter at being able to avoid snipers" It's that there has been an increase in health for any suit running armor plates. (combined with) Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with) Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with) Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with) No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with) Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with) Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with) Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with) Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with) Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with) Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with) Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with) Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with) Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with) I can keep coming up with stuff to show you how the game has changed, and not in favor of sniping. I'm probably missing a few easy ones I could have pointed out. Oh well! Nice talk.

DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.05.22 10:03:00 - [51] - Quote There needs to be a damage increase somewhere. OR a sweeping health reduction on armor plates. Charge Sniper Rifle sound effect when charged is deafening. I have to turn SFX volume down so far that I can't hear incoming vehicles or player movement near by. (unless I want to hear the high pitched whine of the rifle 80% of the match, which trust me you don't.) You do know there's already a post with thousands of views on the inequality of the sniper role. Making another one?
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.05.22 10:14:00 - [52] - Quote Atiim wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Yes. A sniper rifle is a weapon; it doesn't require you to try farming kills with it. Well if that's the case, how about a proposition? Attack a Heaven's Lost Property district. In the PC, do absolutely nothing but snipe with the Sniper Rifle. If you place 3rd or higher with it, I'll pay you 60m as well as another 36m to cover the clone pack. But if you place lower than 3rd, then you have to pay me 50m, as well as make a thread saying that you were wrong about Sniper Rifles being viable. How's that sound? Sniper Rifles are viable on some PC maps. It will require.. -specific maps -using thales -targets of opportunity The problem is you need officer gear to be useful enough to warrant a team fielding a sniper. That pretty much sums that up for ya.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2166	Posted - 2014.05.22 10:31:00 - [53] - Quote Rendering most of all, rifle shots at 600 meters, rendering stops at 400... And yes, zoom level should be increased. I'm not properly a sniper, not with this character at least PSN: ogamega I'm here to bla bla bla...
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 347	Posted - 2014.05.22 10:35:00 - [54] - Quote improve the hit detection and bring back hit markers. most of the time you see the target take dmage but recive no hit marker. so you have no clue if you hit or kill him. the only way of knowing is seeing the +50 kill *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Jaed D'jaegweir Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 14	Posted - 2014.05.22 10:43:00 - [55] - Quote Kaalakiota Tactical Sniper Rifle 3 round clip and 1000 RPM and 2 nanohives usually works good "We do not live in a world of reality. We live in a world of perceptions." -Gerald Simmons
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 630	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:09:00 - [56] - Quote copy the thales stats to the Milita sr - rebalance all sr's based off that.
TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3420	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:13:00 - [57] - Quote It fires electromagnetic rounds that damage shield and armour efficiently maybe?. so maybe 100% shields and armour damage. Thats basically a free complex damage mod for it right there alone and not taking into account profs. Eve Legion FTW!
KingBabar MAG was better... 2531	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:43:00 - [58] - Quote Some day a very Bright Developer will make a FPS game without any sniper rifles at all. And what a glorious day it will be. Sorry peeps, absolutely no sympathy or indeed respect for the lot of you. If more of you played the role of the tactical marksman, you would gain more respect. That means that you move with, though be it a little further behind, your squad. You get in posititon, provide support fire and move on after your squad clear the objective or whatnoot. Re-Flex's playstyle from back in the days is an excellent example of this sort of playstyle. Finding a sniper in Dust that actually does this rather than sitting still the entire game either at the redline or on top of a mountain or building is extremely rare. Your redline ways have collectively given you the hate and pity of this community, its too late to ever be fixed. FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8774	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:53:00 - [59] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Finding a sniper in Dust that actually does this rather than sitting still the entire game either at the redline or on top of a mountain or building is extremely rare. Your redline ways have collectively given you the hate and pity of this community, its too late to ever be fixed. 1. Your not CCP, so you saying "to late to ever be fixed" may as well be the ramblings from a 4 year old child. 2. Fallacy. Should I bother forming a rebuttal to the rest of this drivel? HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
KingBabar MAG was better... 2531	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:08:00 - [60] - Quote Atiim wrote: KingBabar wrote: Finding a sniper in Dust that actually does this rather than sitting still the entire game either at the redline or on top of a mountain or building is extremely rare. Your redline ways have collectively given you the hate and pity of this community, its too late to ever be fixed. 1. Your not CCP, so you saying "to late to ever be fixed" may as well be the ramblings from a 4 year old child. 2. Fallacy. Should I bother forming a rebuttal to the rest of this dribble? 1. That was about the general community's view on snipers, we mostly hate them and think of them as Cowards not wanting to risk anything in a fight, or indeed to get off their butts to go and hack something. I am very glad the sniper rifles are where they are now. I have spent far too many games during all the Beta stages and all the various builds having 2-4 enemy snipers camp the entire game up high, With no means for me to do anything about it short of calling in a dropship. The main issue for my Sniper hate in Dust is the map designs. Most maps are "a bowl" With high Ridges mostly inaccessible peaks, high buildings and Towers With the same qualities and not least the possibility to fire out of the redline. So here is what I will suggest to Balance the snipers and give them a serious tactical role: - Buff damage seriously, I'm talking 50-100% - Reduce rate of fire With 25 - 50 % And most importantly: Reduce range to about 200 meters. These changes will award good aiming skills, as it will be more important to land those shots. It will also remove much of the mentioned hated behavior With People setting up camp somewhere and have LOS to way too much of the Battlefield. The range change will still make them superior to any other gun (don't get me started on forge guns...) and my most important point: This will reward tactical movement and re-positioning. A sniper is IMO supposed to follow the Squad, provide cover fire or Lock Down a certain chokepoint or objective. He is to be a smart player that knows how to re-position himself and Call out intel. It seems like most of the suggestions in this thread comes from People which are mostly comfortable With setting up camp somewhere and just rack up the kills, far out of harms way, for that, you will never have my or any other competitive FPS players support. Get Gud. FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.



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