DUST Search - [Suggestion] Fighting for planets, not districts

R F Gyro wrote:

Godin Thekiller wrote:

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

Godin, think of it like this.

Firstly, in order to seize the planet, you'd need to attack multiple time. No one could seize the planet in a single day (unless they zergblobbed the planet from space and land with a ridiculous amount of firepower).

Secondly, this could serve as PC with a "PC light" which would be seizing individual Districts. Make certain Districts on each planet serve as lynchpins for planetary control. If you control them , you get some kind of benefit above and beyond just District control.

IDK, I really like the idea of having seperate mechanics governing assaults/control on a planetary scale.

It is, after all, called Planetary Conquest.

step 1: cap a district

step 2: cap the rest

step 3: you got the planet, throw a party

The manpower required to fight on 16-24 districts at once would be insane. The server would die before it could get that big anyways. And that is just over one single planet; how about the rest of the planets in the game?

This isn't just about Planetary Conquest. This is about allowing larger battles than you can fit on one battleserver.

Planets wouldn't all have 16-24 districts; there's nothing stopping CCP having planets with a single district. And there's no reason why all the districts on a planet should be on a single server.

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R F Gyro Clones 4u 1414	Posted - 2014.05.13 22:17:00 - [1] - Quote In Dust we currently fight over individual districts, whether it is in public contracts, faction warfare or PC. You have a single battle in a single district, and you win or lose. This "escalates" the limit of 16 players per side in a single battle into a limit of 16 players per side in any contest. Legion should make the planet the basic unit of contest, with individual battles in districts being just part of that contest. In this model winning/losing districts would be irrelevant; it would be the planets that matter. Winning the contest for the planet would involve winning the majority of the district battles, obviously, but the focus is on the planet. The end-of-battle leaderboards should show planet-wide stats, across all the battles in all the districts on that planet. Your ISK, salvage and SP rewards should be based on the results of the planet-wide contest, not just on the particular district fight(s) you were in. The in-battle HUD should show not just the stats of your current battle, but of the entire contest for the planet. Now there's nothing stopping you having planets with a single district, in which case a battle for that district would be the same as a battle for the planet, which is essentially what we have now: a single district fight. The current system becomes a limited subset of the new one, to be used as appropriate for gameplay reasons. It would also be entirely possible to require multiple battles per district in order to decide the fate of the planet. A planet with 6 districts fought over in a "first to 10 wins" contest. What is the point of this? To allow massive contests of hundreds of players fighting simultaneously over a planet while requiring no increase in the size of individual battles (though that would be good too). To allow battles of different game modes to affect a single outcome (three city-centre skirmish, one semi-open domination and one open field ambush, for example). RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2237	Posted - 2014.05.13 22:35:00 - [2] - Quote 1: Districts are large as hell 2: You don't just raid a country and take it over in a day unless the country is ****. 3: Other people could own other parts of the planet. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9637	Posted - 2014.05.13 23:13:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: 1: Districts are large as hell 2: You don't just raid a country and take it over in a day unless the country is ****. 3: Other people could own other parts of the planet. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3255	Posted - 2014.05.13 23:21:00 - [4] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: 1: Districts are large as hell 2: You don't just raid a country and take it over in a day unless the country is ****. 3: Other people could own other parts of the planet. This Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 120	Posted - 2014.05.13 23:49:00 - [5] - Quote The part I like is the part about massive battles and just 1 map. I wish each planet in Legion as a Planetside 2 battle kind of thing. There you also have ~districts~ but its all seamless and you see the map dominance changing by the minute.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2241	Posted - 2014.05.13 23:54:00 - [6] - Quote Ender Storm wrote: The part I like is the part about massive battles and just 1 map. I wish each planet in Legion as a Planetside 2 battle kind of thing. There you also have ~districts~ but its all seamless and you see the map dominance changing by the minute. That would be ridiculous, as things actually matter here. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 371	Posted - 2014.05.14 00:04:00 - [7] - Quote If you open up your idea to the wider world of Legion and EVE you can have it both ways. One example of that is a thread we had a few days ago -- you can read it here. The basic idea is that Planetary Interaction in EVE is integrated with PC in DUST 514 for Legion. EVE players layout the districts for their mining, manufacturing and defence operations. They hire Legion mercenaries or Corporations to defend them. Perhaps eventually the Legion corporations can own districts and planets and set up their own Planetary Interaction facilities. This isn't the only way of course, but it shows one way that owning planets and fighting over districts could fit together in a combined EVE/Legion world. It is but to keep the nerves at strain, to dry one's eyes and laugh at a fall, and baffled, get up and begin again.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 1984	Posted - 2014.05.14 00:23:00 - [8] - Quote I like this idea. It makes it more analogous to Eve as well. In Eve, when you seize Sov, you take the entire Solar System and the Anoms, Asteroid Belts, Moons and Planets follow. In Legion, you could seize a Planet and the Districts there would simply follow. Arzadu Akbar Motherfuckers!!!! Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2244	Posted - 2014.05.14 00:24:00 - [9] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I like this idea. It makes it more analogous to Eve as well. In Eve, when you seize Sov, you take the entire Solar System and the Anoms, Asteroid Belts, Moons and Planets follow. In Legion, you could seize a Planet and the Districts there would simply follow. Do I have to explain myself again? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 1984	Posted - 2014.05.14 00:57:00 - [10] - Quote Godin, think of it like this. Firstly, in order to seize the planet, you'd need to attack multiple time. No one could seize the planet in a single day (unless they zergblobbed the planet from space and land with a ridiculous amount of firepower). Secondly, this could serve as PC with a "PC light" which would be seizing individual Districts. Make certain Districts on each planet serve as lynchpins for planetary control. If you control them , you get some kind of benefit above and beyond just District control. IDK, I really like the idea of having seperate mechanics governing assaults/control on a planetary scale. It is, after all, called Planetary Conquest. Arzadu Akbar Motherfuckers!!!! Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber

Vaux Karn The Mercenary Collective 92	Posted - 2014.05.14 00:59:00 - [11] - Quote The planets already are the goal, but they are the larger overall goal. Districts are just the steps to reaching that goal. You have to consider scale, as it works now you could theoretically take over a whole planet at once, but it would require massive numbers and coordination. If that sounds unrealistic to you, well then I guess go back to Hogwartz. Also on the other side of the district system, if you don't think it is realistic that a smaller corp can manage to hold a single district on a planet despite repeated attacks, do some research on insurgencies and guerrilla warfare. There is lots of historical data to back that kind of thing up, just look at the Russian occupation of Afghanistan, the American Revolution, or the Greek stand against the Persian Empire. Summary: the district system make Planetary Conquest more meaningful.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2247	Posted - 2014.05.14 01:14:00 - [12] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Godin, think of it like this. Firstly, in order to seize the planet, you'd need to attack multiple time. No one could seize the planet in a single day (unless they zergblobbed the planet from space and land with a ridiculous amount of firepower). Secondly, this could serve as PC with a "PC light" which would be seizing individual Districts. Make certain Districts on each planet serve as lynchpins for planetary control. If you control them , you get some kind of benefit above and beyond just District control. IDK, I really like the idea of having seperate mechanics governing assaults/control on a planetary scale. It is, after all, called Planetary Conquest. step 1: cap a district step 2: cap the rest step 3: you got the planet, throw a party The manpower required to fight on 16-24 districts at once would be insane. The server would die before it could get that big anyways. And that is just over one single planet; how about the rest of the planets in the game? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 212	Posted - 2014.05.14 05:50:00 - [13] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: 1: Districts are large as hell 2: You don't just raid a country and take it over in a day unless the country is ****. 3: Other people could own other parts of the planet. You can with high tech boom boom guns Blood drops from my gun
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 635	Posted - 2014.05.14 08:13:00 - [14] - Quote I mention something similar here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2147538 fighting for a planet 'as a whole' but with the ability to take it district by district. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1422	Posted - 2014.05.14 21:45:00 - [15] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Godin, think of it like this. Firstly, in order to seize the planet, you'd need to attack multiple time. No one could seize the planet in a single day (unless they zergblobbed the planet from space and land with a ridiculous amount of firepower). Secondly, this could serve as PC with a "PC light" which would be seizing individual Districts. Make certain Districts on each planet serve as lynchpins for planetary control. If you control them , you get some kind of benefit above and beyond just District control. IDK, I really like the idea of having seperate mechanics governing assaults/control on a planetary scale. It is, after all, called Planetary Conquest. step 1: cap a district step 2: cap the rest step 3: you got the planet, throw a party The manpower required to fight on 16-24 districts at once would be insane. The server would die before it could get that big anyways. And that is just over one single planet; how about the rest of the planets in the game? This isn't just about Planetary Conquest. This is about allowing larger battles than you can fit on one battleserver. Planets wouldn't all have 16-24 districts; there's nothing stopping CCP having planets with a single district. And there's no reason why all the districts on a planet should be on a single server. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1422	Posted - 2014.05.14 21:48:00 - [16] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: 1: Districts are large as hell 2: You don't just raid a country and take it over in a day unless the country is ***. 3: Other people could own other parts of the planet. I'm not sure why any of this matters, as far as this concept is concerned. Anyway, it doesn't have to be districts on planets. It could be battlefields in districts, and the same concept applies. Link multiple smaller battles together into a single fight, rather than limiting each fight to the size that a single battleserver and each client can handle. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus*
Shadowswipe Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 251	Posted - 2014.05.14 22:06:00 - [17] - Quote Similar post to mine located here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=162387&find=unread Basically, you don't fight for a planet. You fight for places on the planet, that were built up by the players. If you want to claim a planet for bragging rights, then make a capture the flag specific area to fight over, like a small orbital station. If you own that, you "own the planet". It might need a two part capture to own, the small space station, and a ground link, maybe the space elevator. Without the use of the space elevator, then no matter how many resources you mine from the planet, it won't be moving anywhere fast.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2269	Posted - 2014.05.14 22:16:00 - [18] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: 1: Districts are large as hell 2: You don't just raid a country and take it over in a day unless the country is ****. 3: Other people could own other parts of the planet. You can with high tech boom boom guns lol, not when the enemy has them as well. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2269	Posted - 2014.05.14 22:18:00 - [19] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Godin, think of it like this. Firstly, in order to seize the planet, you'd need to attack multiple time. No one could seize the planet in a single day (unless they zergblobbed the planet from space and land with a ridiculous amount of firepower). Secondly, this could serve as PC with a "PC light" which would be seizing individual Districts. Make certain Districts on each planet serve as lynchpins for planetary control. If you control them , you get some kind of benefit above and beyond just District control. IDK, I really like the idea of having seperate mechanics governing assaults/control on a planetary scale. It is, after all, called Planetary Conquest. step 1: cap a district step 2: cap the rest step 3: you got the planet, throw a party The manpower required to fight on 16-24 districts at once would be insane. The server would die before it could get that big anyways. And that is just over one single planet; how about the rest of the planets in the game? This isn't just about Planetary Conquest. This is about allowing larger battles than you can fit on one battleserver. Planets wouldn't all have 16-24 districts; there's nothing stopping CCP having planets with a single district. And there's no reason why all the districts on a planet should be on a single server. Dude, districts are already made into planets, and that's how many districts I there is (haven't looked in a long time). To change that would mean a lot of things would need changing, especially for PI in EVE. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2269	Posted - 2014.05.14 22:20:00 - [20] - Quote Wait, question: How big do you think the districts are? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 752	Posted - 2014.05.14 22:40:00 - [21] - Quote oh man, effort!
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1519	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:17:00 - [22] - Quote Would you mind explaining why having a single battle for control over the entire planet is a good idea? What's so bad with the idea of taking each district individually? If you say it's for large-scale battles, I'm going to have to facepalm. Districts are massive. This is a district. Each of those blue-tinted square areas are entire maps. And this is going to be one of the smaller districts! Districts could easily support massive battles all on their own. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2273	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:30:00 - [23] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Would you mind explaining why having a single battle for control over the entire planet is a good idea? What's so bad with the idea of taking each district individually? If you say it's for large-scale battles, I'm going to have to facepalm. Districts are massive. This is a district. Each of those blue-tinted square areas are entire maps. And this is going to be one of the smaller districts! Districts could easily support massive battles all on their own. Each map is actually pretty small (the latest maps are around 25km2, while these are only 4km2). However, there's like 100 or so of those, so it gets close to .1Mm. That is ***** huge for just one map. So, to the OP, did you realize how ***** huge the Districts are? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Mr m4gic XSKvLLX 58	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:44:00 - [24] - Quote the battle is about the planet, just people fight for districts i assume because they hold something of value there is nothing saying 1 corp cant own an entire planet. Have you seen my baseball??
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2275	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:49:00 - [25] - Quote Mr m4gic wrote: the battle is about the planet, just people fight for districts i assume because they hold something of value there is nothing saying 1 corp cant own an entire planet. .......... Do you even read? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1424	Posted - 2014.05.15 07:24:00 - [26] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Dude, districts are already made into planets, and that's how many districts I there is (haven't looked in a long time). To change that would mean a lot of things would need changing, especially for PI in EVE. Not all of the districts have to be battlefields in Legion. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1577	Posted - 2014.05.15 07:25:00 - [27] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Dude, districts are already made into planets, and that's how many districts I there is (haven't looked in a long time). To change that would mean a lot of things would need changing, especially for PI in EVE. Not all of the districts have to be battlefields in Legion. That's like saying not all of the systems in EVE have to have ganking. It's heresy! I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1424	Posted - 2014.05.15 07:29:00 - [28] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Would you mind explaining why having a single battle for control over the entire planet is a good idea? What's so bad with the idea of taking each district individually? If you say it's for large-scale battles, I'm going to have to facepalm. Districts are massive. This is a district. Each of those blue-tinted square areas are entire maps. And this is going to be one of the smaller districts! Districts could easily support massive battles all on their own. Its not how much space there is, its how many players can directly interact with each other simultaneously. How many other characters can your game client render? How many can an individual battle server track and manage physics for? All I'm suggesting is linking multiple battles into a larger fight so that we can exceed this limit. Using the current districts/planets hierarchy is one way to do this, but not the only way and it seems that some people really hate the idea. So allow multiple simultaneous battles per district then. Its the same thing in the end. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1424	Posted - 2014.05.15 07:30:00 - [29] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Would you mind explaining why having a single battle for control over the entire planet is a good idea? What's so bad with the idea of taking each district individually? If you say it's for large-scale battles, I'm going to have to facepalm. Districts are massive. This is a district. Each of those blue-tinted square areas are entire maps. And this is going to be one of the smaller districts! Districts could easily support massive battles all on their own. Each map is actually pretty small (the latest maps are around 25km2, while these are only 4km2). However, there's like 100 or so of those, so it gets close to .1Mm. That is ***** huge for just one map. So, to the OP, did you realize how ***** huge the Districts are? Yes, I do. Do you realise how irrelevant it is to the number of players engaged in a single fight in the game? RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2014.05.15 07:32:00 - [30] - Quote Well, in Star Wars Battlefront 2, you basically fought "one district for control of the whole planet," but there was also the spaceship battle in orbit of the planet. Your idea is pretty cool, but it would be extremely difficult at times to get hundreds of people online at the same time to fight with/against each other on that planet in all the districts. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++

Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1577	Posted - 2014.05.15 07:40:00 - [31] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Its not how much space there is, its how many players can directly interact with each other simultaneously. How many other characters can your game client render? How many can an individual battle server track and manage physics for? Probably a lot more than you believe, especially if it's spread out over an entire district. Also, what's stopping a corporation from fighting on multiple districts at once right now? I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Joseph Tasun Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 13	Posted - 2014.05.15 09:04:00 - [32] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: Well, in Star Wars Battlefront 2, you basically fought "one district for control of the whole planet," but there was also the spaceship battle in orbit of the planet. Seriously. Battlefront? That is totally wrong for this argument. ;P Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: Your idea is pretty cool, but it would be extremely difficult at times to get hundreds of people online at the same time to fight with/against each other on that planet in all the districts. A district being this, I agree that you just can't do that and expect it to be fun. Also, Planets can never, EVER be 'one ring to rule them all'. Just not happening. Unless that planet only has one district, see Nulsec expeditions. -likely nulsec thing. If someone wants to own a planet in it's entirety, you SHOULD be preparing for a bloody meatgrinder, even against NPCs. I would like to remind you of the rock we're sitting on, and both the World Wars it's sat through. The Earth, is bloody big. The wars, were damn painful. -To make Planetary Conquest not a huge waste of time, Districts exist. More population, more infrastructure, more districts. Basically, winning a planet in 10-20 minutes against similarly equipped opponents, is a stupid idea. Stupid. -Again, unless the planet has a low enough population to only have one 'District'.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 1985	Posted - 2014.05.15 13:11:00 - [33] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Dude, districts are already made into planets, and that's how many districts I there is (haven't looked in a long time). To change that would mean a lot of things would need changing, especially for PI in EVE. Not all of the districts have to be battlefields in Legion. That's like saying not all of the systems in EVE have to have ganking. It's heresy! Try ganking in a Starter System.... Arzadu Akbar Motherfuckers!!!! Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 139	Posted - 2014.05.15 20:20:00 - [34] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Dude, districts are already made into planets, and that's how many districts I there is (haven't looked in a long time). To change that would mean a lot of things would need changing, especially for PI in EVE. Not all of the districts have to be battlefields in Legion. That's like saying not all of the systems in EVE have to have ganking. It's heresy! Try ganking in a Starter System.... Hulkagedon.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1424	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:00:00 - [35] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Its not how much space there is, its how many players can directly interact with each other simultaneously. How many other characters can your game client render? How many can an individual battle server track and manage physics for? Probably a lot more than you believe, especially if it's spread out over an entire district. Also, what's stopping a corporation from fighting on multiple districts at once right now? Nothing is stopping that, but they are all still individual battles. There is nothing showing you, while you fight in district 6, what is going on in all the other districts. As for spreading fights over an "entire district", what does that mean? Multiple simultaneous battles in a single district? I'd be OK with that, but Dust doesn't currently support that so it would be a bigger change than simply linking multiple district-level battles into a single planetary-level fight. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1624	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:26:00 - [36] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Dude, districts are already made into planets, and that's how many districts I there is (haven't looked in a long time). To change that would mean a lot of things would need changing, especially for PI in EVE. Not all of the districts have to be battlefields in Legion. That's like saying not all of the systems in EVE have to have ganking. It's heresy! Try ganking in a Starter System.... That too, has ganking. You just have to do it on an alt. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.


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