+1

What makes me special? Hmm I'll get back to you on that.

It's not 100% guarantee that you get away safe. If there are two proto swarmers and a forger, then the swarmers hit the ADS once each, and the forger hits him twice it's guaranteed the ADS is dead. So it's not the fact that the ADS pilot just flies away, it's that the AVers aren't very good.

hell yea a nerf thread awesome we need more of these

As long as I get to prove a pilot to be mentally ********, It could be any kind of thread.

well good luck with that

Zaeed Massani wrote


Your ****** old rifle Jessie reporting for duty, Zaeed.

well good luck with that

it;s just crazy man all these posts and the so called logic of "we normally own everything we come accross but this one match there was finally this one guy that we didn't kill so therefore he should be nerfed even tho we negated his ability to do something"

that's like me crying about the 1 python my incubus couldnt kill, since I and gunner normally destroy pythons, since we couldnt kill this one guy because he tanked my proto rail turret so therefore pythons needs a nerf... thats a BS way to request nerfs

i'm done here.. enjoy your nerf thread gentlemen.

**** YA BRAH ANOTHER NER...

Oh, wait. What's that? Oh, look! The title is asking for a buff to Swarms. As is the rest of the thread!

Go figure the ADS pilot doesn't bother reading, he just comes in and essentially tells us to **** off.

Reading iz hardness.

the buff to SL yea i can take a 10%-20% buff to SL but to also nerf the ADS at the same time is overkill. if you wanna make a buff SL post hell yea, but to make a buff SL and nerf ADS post **** no.

yea? no.

We're not trying to buff the SL damage, nor do we want ADSs nerfed (I actually think they're in a good spot now).

We just want the Swarm speed to be fast enough to the point where they can't be out-run by anybody with an Afterburner.

Earlier today, my squad and I were running some chain domination games. We ran into a lot of the same squads. One in particular spammed vehicles like there was no tomorrow.

In response, we had an ADV FG and two Minmatar Commandos rocking Wiyrkomi Swarms. We wrecked tanks with ease, but the Incubus the other team called in was damn near impossible to kill. After three close calls he recalled his Incubus and whipped out a triple rep Maddy. Between the three of us we were able to continually scare him off, but we never killed him. I wish to God I had the video from the match.

The Incubus had 950 shields and 38xx armor. As soon as his armor started to get low, he would hit the afterburner and rocket straight up, outrunning all 12-24 of the swarms in the air after him. This should not be so simple and easy to do. I'm sorry, but it just shouldn't. Nerf afterburners. Buff swarm flight speed. Something...but swarms are not in a great place right now.

I can't find the thread, but one forum poster described swarms as "fire-and-forget rockets of death". Lets break that down...

You mean the rockets that can be easily outrun by a ADS with a burner?
You mean the rockets that crash into the ground if you dodge behind a low hill?
You mean the rockets that you can see coming and dodge so they smash into anything you choose to hide behind?

Fire and forget, indeed. Forget that you fired, maybe.

Swarms DO NOT need a straight damage buff. They are space-age, futuristic rockets...the USAF has rockets that travel at Mach 6 and you're telling me that the Caldari can't engineer rockets that can chase down a fat dropship traveling at a few hundred km/h? If anything, I'd like to see them get a significant flight speed buff. If you see them coming and have the reaction time to find cover, good on you. But if they're behind you and homing in for the kill, there should be nothing in the game currently that can outrun them.

Flame as you will. Running swarms is fun for me and I do not regret for an instant that I spent the SP to get them to 5 and start working on proficiency...but they desperately need a buff. Right now the only vehicle I can "fire-and-forget" my swarms with is a FULL militia fit DS/LAV/HAV with a crap-ass pilot. And maybe any variant of shield LAV because they're pretty squishy.

I also would like a lock range increase; 50m or so.

For the record I was complaining about swarms as loudly as anyone else back pre-1.7.

>Buff swarms! They need da buff!
>ADS R so Oberpoward becuz dey r fly away, o noey!

First off, let's look at something real simple: Map size.

The largest maps we have (from redline to redline) is roughly ~1300m. The majority of maps played are not on the largest map, as a fact, most maps are under 600m. Look at Manus Peak and that one 5pt map with the Caldari ship. Both of those maps are incredibly small leaving only one option for evacuation in swarm/forge/rail cases: the roof.

You complain that swarms should be able to catch up to ADS? How about we look at the logistics of everything in the game while we're at it? No? Okay then. Swarms don't have a ******ed speed because the map size doesn't warrant it. You can't expect Dropships to just sit there and tank fire like, well, a tank. Afterburners are literally the only option DS/ADS pilots have to evade incoming fire reliably. Don't QQ about how we can just "AB away!". Maybe if you gave me an armor hardener that negated ~80% damage for a short time and I'll be inclined to follow your logic to this. No? Okay.

Dropships are weak as all hell. The only way one gains survivability is by smart piloting and the afterburner is one such way. Let's also look at why you only mention DS/ADS. What about vehicles who use Nitro? Should they get removed/nerfed as well? Obviously not because it's a vehicle limited to the ground and as such has an extremely limited field of play. Dropships are aerial vehicles and to whomever stated "nerf the flight ceiling", get out. CCP already dropped the ceiling once before and it made DS completely useless even with an AB.

Final point: If the maps were actually big, then a buff to speed/damage/range would be warranted. We still have issues of swarms and rail shots' tracers disappearing causing us to be hit by "nothing". A good pilot is a great enemy. He uses all resources available, and we don't have much.


P.S. - The guy you claimed tanked 10k+ damage probably had max skills into Armor Repair Systems. A complex light armor rep goes from 75HP/s to 95HP/s. at max level.

Are we talking large or small rails? I assume small since this has been a dropship discussion...

...no. You want to kill me, you run missiles as they already have splash damage. If you need to run a rail turret so badly, you sacrifice your ability to kill infantry as easily. Otherwise I want my Breach Mass Driver to have homing grenades.

Fair?

Swarms need nothing, what you need is an anti-air weapon that ONLY targets air units

We're not trying to buff the SL damage, nor do we want ADSs nerfed (I actually think they're in a good spot now).

We just want the Swarm speed to be fast enough to the point where they can't be out-run by anybody with an Afterburner.

Remove kinetic catalyzers.

Just a quick message to the OP:

I didn't read the whole post. I saw "nerf afterburners" and couldn't take it seriously.

Then I saw that trying to go around cover to make swarms hit walls and explode, shouldn't happen.

I cannot take you seriously.

Spend an entire month on a 10mil SP pilot alt, doing nothing but that.

So only your play style is valid enough to get a buff? I run rails because that's what my 2.5 million SP skill gives me a bonus to. You don't want anything to be a threat to you but you want to be able to kill tanks and ADS's like cutting through butter. If you can kill ADS's as they afterburner away suddenly missiles are no longer a threat to you now are they? Buff rails? Hell no run missiles even though I'll just kill you anyway as you retreat as I fire volley after volley at you while I duck in and out of cover. Meanwhile you just hover there in the wide open while I and every other AV'er on the map fire at you. Don't bother running a way cus if the 300+ meter forger doesn't get you my stupidly easy to use swarms will. By the way I don't even use an AB on my slow ass brick tanked because I have to be able to survive rammings Incubus. I use a damage mod because that's the only chance I have to kill tanks.

they always end up getting my incubus but i dont have a problem with them until 2 proto SLs. a couple nights ago because i was getting slammed by 2 proto SLs and a proto FG on the map with the bridge at alpha, iirc they finally timed the alpha right and we went down, it took them a while and we could have went max height many times, but that is hella boring, would rather contour fly in and out of the chaos for fun. i'm not the ADS best pilot but i've some awesome gunners who i spend alot of SP on.

i am fine with SL buff to speed. SL definately needs something. the AB timing/cooldown could be OP. i've just already been through 1 AB nerf, wasn't really looking forward to another.

think the AB is bad now, the AB was off the chart at one time, gave like a %500 speed boost a year ago. it was basically a micro warp drive it took us a while to adapt to that nerf because STD swarms could 2HK us back then iirc. we woke up one morning and they had hotpatched over nerfed the AB then it got buffed up to %150 sometime ago. imo the complex AB should be faster than the basic AB and the basic/MLT should be slower than STD,
if they over nerf my AB again then everyone will just whine when we switch to damage mods..

>Buff swarms! They need da buff!
>ADS R so Oberpoward becuz dey r fly away, o noey!

First off, let's look at something real simple: Map size.

The largest maps we have (from redline to redline) is roughly ~1300m. The majority of maps played are not on the largest map, as a fact, most maps are under 600m. Look at Manus Peak and that one 5pt map with the Caldari ship. Both of those maps are incredibly small leaving only one option for evacuation in swarm/forge/rail cases: the roof.

You complain that swarms should be able to catch up to ADS? How about we look at the logistics of everything in the game while we're at it? No? Okay then. Swarms don't have a ******ed speed because the map size doesn't warrant it. You can't expect Dropships to just sit there and tank fire like, well, a tank. Afterburners are literally the only option DS/ADS pilots have to evade incoming fire reliably. Don't QQ about how we can just "AB away!". Maybe if you gave me an armor hardener that negated ~80% damage for a short time and I'll be inclined to follow your logic to this. No? Okay.

Dropships are weak as all hell. The only way one gains survivability is by smart piloting and the afterburner is one such way. Let's also look at why you only mention DS/ADS. What about vehicles who use Nitro? Should they get removed/nerfed as well? Obviously not because it's a vehicle limited to the ground and as such has an extremely limited field of play. Dropships are aerial vehicles and to whomever stated "nerf the flight ceiling", get out. CCP already dropped the ceiling once before and it made DS completely useless even with an AB.

Final point: If the maps were actually big, then a buff to speed/damage/range would be warranted. We still have issues of swarms and rail shots' tracers disappearing causing us to be hit by "nothing". A good pilot is a great enemy. He uses all resources available, and we don't have much.


P.S. - The guy you claimed tanked 10k+ damage probably had max skills into Armor Repair Systems. A complex light armor rep goes from 75HP/s to 95HP/s. at max level.

Also, lock times should be distance related - targets that are closer should require less lock time than more distant targets. (Lock ranges could then be extended as longer lock times would balance them.)

Remove kinetic catalyzers.

You were never able to kill the pilot, but was he able to kill you while you firing at him? I doubt it, as the pilot is stuck in the flight ceiling due to AV bouncing him around and nearly killing him. Infantry can hide around obstacles and have a far greater range than missile turrets, which are anti-infantry/vehicle, as no other turret is accurate or forgiving enough to be effective in an ADS. Also, as a pilot, I don't find it difficult to destroy dropships with AV, swarms or forge guns. If you play correctly, you can avoid ADS fire. If a pilot plays correctly, he can avoid AV fire. It's that simple really. Also, how many points were you making off of him? Surely some of your missiles hit him enough to get points out of it... I hope. AV is very profitable, even when you don't kill the target. Depending on the opponent, I can get 400k isk or more simply by getting vehicle damage points.

The rockets that don't properly render half the time?

The rockets that cost the same as a sidearm of equivalent tier?

The rockets that require no more skill than being able to hold down a lock on button?

Proto swarms are fine where they are at. The only change they need is to bring standard and advanced swarms up to competitive levels. Therefore:

All swarms fire 6 missiles. Missile damage goes up through the tiers.

STD: 190
ADV: 205
PRO: 220