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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
213
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Posted - 2014.04.17 20:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Earlier today, my squad and I were running some chain domination games. We ran into a lot of the same squads. One in particular spammed vehicles like there was no tomorrow.
In response, we had an ADV FG and two Minmatar Commandos rocking Wiyrkomi Swarms. We wrecked tanks with ease, but the Incubus the other team called in was damn near impossible to kill. After three close calls he recalled his Incubus and whipped out a triple rep Maddy. Between the three of us we were able to continually scare him off, but we never killed him. I wish to God I had the video from the match.
The Incubus had 950 shields and 38xx armor. As soon as his armor started to get low, he would hit the afterburner and rocket straight up, outrunning all 12-24 of the swarms in the air after him. This should not be so simple and easy to do. I'm sorry, but it just shouldn't. Nerf afterburners. Buff swarm flight speed. Something...but swarms are not in a great place right now.
I can't find the thread, but one forum poster described swarms as "fire-and-forget rockets of death". Lets break that down...
You mean the rockets that can be easily outrun by a ADS with a burner?
You mean the rockets that crash into the ground if you dodge behind a low hill?
You mean the rockets that you can see coming and dodge so they smash into anything you choose to hide behind?
Fire and forget, indeed. Forget that you fired, maybe.
Swarms DO NOT need a straight damage buff. They are space-age, futuristic rockets...the USAF has rockets that travel at Mach 6 and you're telling me that the Caldari can't engineer rockets that can chase down a fat dropship traveling at a few hundred km/h? If anything, I'd like to see them get a significant flight speed buff. If you see them coming and have the reaction time to find cover, good on you. But if they're behind you and homing in for the kill, there should be nothing in the game currently that can outrun them.
Flame as you will. Running swarms is fun for me and I do not regret for an instant that I spent the SP to get them to 5 and start working on proficiency...but they desperately need a buff. Right now the only vehicle I can "fire-and-forget" my swarms with is a FULL militia fit DS/LAV/HAV with a crap-ass pilot. And maybe any variant of shield LAV because they're pretty squishy.
Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando
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Do you even lift?
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Richard Hansaw
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
14
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Posted - 2014.04.17 21:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree. But if that happens I think they'll have to balance it with some kind of jammer module. (But make it un-stackable and usable in short bursts, like the original Saga-II 80% hardener.) |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2707
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Posted - 2014.04.17 21:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
I also would like a lock range increase; 50m or so.
For the record I was complaining about swarms as loudly as anyone else back pre-1.7.
ak.0 4 LYFE
I am the Lorhak. I speak for the trees.
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HappyAsshole1
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2014.04.17 21:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
lock on range increase 50m and 5-10% damage buff. not too good, not too bad=no complain. |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
931
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Posted - 2014.04.17 21:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sure just so long as you remove the knock back so I have the slightest chance of fighting back.
Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you!
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
214
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Posted - 2014.04.17 21:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Richard Hansaw wrote:I agree. But if that happens I think they'll have to balance it with some kind of jammer module. (But make it un-stackable and usable in short bursts, like the original Saga-II 80% hardener.)
I'm ok with that, it actually sounds like a very good idea.
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:I also would like a lock range increase; 50m or so.
For the record I was complaining about swarms as loudly as anyone else back pre-1.7.
Yeah I'd also like to see the lock range increased to 200-250m, or somewhere in there...but I feel that is pointless when they can still be so easily outrun. Also, if the flight speed is drastically buffed then extending the lock on range too far could result in them being rather overpowered. I don't want them overpowered, I just want them to reliably accomplish the role they were originally meant to.
HappyAsshole1 wrote:lock on range increase 50m and 5-10% damage buff. not too good, not too bad=no complain.
No damage buff. Completely unnecessary. Read the thread.
Henchmen21 wrote:Sure just so long as you remove the knock back so I have the slightest chance of fighting back.
In my experience both flying (all DS variants) and running AV, the knock back effect is a 50/50 thing at best. I can only recall once that I've had swarms hit me so badly they caused me to lose even slight control of my aircraft...and I fly in almost every match I play, ask my corporates. And I can also recall only once when I was running AV that the knock back resulted in the dropship pilot's aim being negatively affected.
So the most I'd be happy with is having the knock back effect reduced somewhat...if its removed completely then in addition to the flight speed buff I would want a slight damage buff as well. It takes 1-2 well placed shots from a missile launcher to kill an infantry soldier...so it should then take an absolute max of 4 swarms to kill an ADS IMHO.
Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando
/
Do you even lift?
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
6833
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Sure just so long as you remove the knock back so I have the slightest chance of fighting back.
No.
Considering how your attacks don't require a charge time of any fashion, removing the knock-back effect would make it impossible for Swarm Launcher users to fight an ADS without getting killed.
Heaven's Lost Swarmer
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
6834
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree OP.
However another thing that needs to be addressed, is the fact that Swarm Launchers fire in a perfectly straight line, and the Swarm AI crashes the moment it sees even the tiniest dip in the terrain.
So many LAVs and HAVs have escaped death because of this, and it's not like they're utilizing cover either.
Heaven's Lost Swarmer
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Awry Barux
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
1964
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:Sure just so long as you remove the knock back so I have the slightest chance of fighting back. No. Considering how your attacks don't require a charge time of any fashion, removing the knock-back effect would make it impossible for Swarm Launcher users to fight an ADS without getting killed.
It should at least be reduced. Pythons can't handle a mass increase to offset it, since agility is their real advantage over the legions of Incubii, but it means that one swarm makes it extremely hard to aim, and two, especially with de-synced firing, makes it all but impossible. I'm not a great pilot, but I consider myself at least somewhat competent- you shouldn't need to be "great" to be able to aim despite a single MLT swarm buffeting you around.
Nerdier than thou
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Hakyou Brutor
G0DS AM0NG MEN
Dirt Nap Squad.
186
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
No. You said that you already wrecked tanks, so what effect would they have on that?
Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway?
I'm a logi now! :D
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
6834
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:
Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway?
No.
If your making them fly away your simply giving them a 0 ISK, 100% risk-free pass.
Heaven's Lost Swarmer
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
6834
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:
It should at least be reduced. Pythons can't handle a mass increase to offset it, since agility is their real advantage over the legions of Incubii, but it means that one swarm makes it extremely hard to aim, and two, especially with de-synced firing, makes it all but impossible. I'm not a great pilot, but I consider myself at least somewhat competent- you shouldn't need to be "great" to be able to aim despite a single MLT swarm buffeting you around.
It's called a weakness.
80GJ Railguns have an area around them that they can't fight back in, a Swarm Launcher can't attack Infantry, and Forge Guns can't re-supply ammo by themselves.
Welcome to the party.
Heaven's Lost Swarmer
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Hakyou Brutor
G0DS AM0NG MEN
Dirt Nap Squad.
186
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:
Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway?
No. If your making them fly away your simply giving them a 0 ISK, 100% risk-free pass.
It's all about perspective, bud.
It's not about costing them ISK, it's about making them retreat to the redline and making them useless to the team, or, of course die. You're saying you want to be able to kill a 500k ISK dropship before they even have a chance to retreat.
I'm a logi now! :D
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
218
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:No. You said that you already wrecked tanks, so what effect would they have on that?
You weren't paying very close attention, but I'll say it again...
There were two Wiyrkomi Swarms and one ADV Forge Gunner. If we weren't wrecking tanks there would be something wrong.
Quote:Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway?
No...
If they fit missile for the purpose of being able to kill infantry, then an infantry weapon that is specialized for AV should be capable of killing them back. It;s that simple.
Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando
/
Do you even lift?
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Hakyou Brutor
G0DS AM0NG MEN
Dirt Nap Squad.
187
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Posted - 2014.04.17 22:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zaaeed Massani wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:No. You said that you already wrecked tanks, so what effect would they have on that? You weren't paying very close attention, but I'll say it again... There were two Wiyrkomi Swarms and one ADV Forge Gunner. If we weren't wrecking tanks there would be something wrong. Quote:Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway? No... If they fit missile for the purpose of being able to kill infantry, then an infantry weapon that is specialized for AV should be capable of killing them back. It;s that simple.
Bro, I'm sorry, but if you can't kill ONE dropship with two proto swarms and a forger then you're either trying to kill Snugglz or you're bad at AV.
I'm a logi now! :D
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
218
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:Atiim wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:
Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway?
No. If your making them fly away your simply giving them a 0 ISK, 100% risk-free pass. It's all about perspective, bud. It's not about costing them ISK, it's about making them retreat to the redline and making them useless to the team, or, of course die. You're saying you want to be able to kill a 500k ISK dropship before they even have a chance to retreat.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that an Incubus sat there and tanked...
*duz mathz*
...approximately (just did this in 20 sec) 10,000 damage, probably closer to 14k to be honest, without even breaking a sweat.
Not ok.
In addition, iirc CCP fixed Caldari dropships so that they no longer have the innate 45% resistance to swarms. Gallente dropships still do, and so therein lies a large part of the problem.
The fact that Pythons are more maneuverable, although more squishy, makes it even easier for them to outrun/doge swarms...which is the reason I felt compelled to start this thread in the first place.
Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando
/
Do you even lift?
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
218
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:No. You said that you already wrecked tanks, so what effect would they have on that? You weren't paying very close attention, but I'll say it again... There were two Wiyrkomi Swarms and one ADV Forge Gunner. If we weren't wrecking tanks there would be something wrong. Quote:Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway? No... If they fit missile for the purpose of being able to kill infantry, then an infantry weapon that is specialized for AV should be capable of killing them back. It;s that simple. Bro, I'm sorry, but if you can't kill ONE dropship with two proto swarms and a forger then you're either trying to kill Snugglz or you're bad at AV.
You're not getting it, are you.
Yes, perhaps the forge gunner could have had a better aim, I was busy switching to my ACR and keeping infantry off him from time to time...but the point is that it is SO EASY for an ADS to out run a flock of swarms in the blink of an eye.
If you can't see (and acknowledge) the problem there then I'm finished responding to you.
Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando
/
Do you even lift?
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Hakyou Brutor
G0DS AM0NG MEN
Dirt Nap Squad.
187
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zaaeed Massani wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:Atiim wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:
Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway?
No. If your making them fly away your simply giving them a 0 ISK, 100% risk-free pass. It's all about perspective, bud. It's not about costing them ISK, it's about making them retreat to the redline and making them useless to the team, or, of course die. You're saying you want to be able to kill a 500k ISK dropship before they even have a chance to retreat. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that an Incubus sat there and tanked... *duz mathz* ...approximately (just did this in 20 sec) 10,000 damage, probably closer to 14k to be honest, without even breaking a sweat. Not ok. In addition, iirc CCP fixed Caldari dropships so that they no longer have the innate 45% resistance to swarms. Gallente dropships still do, and so therein lies a large part of the problem. The fact that Pythons are more maneuverable, although more squishy, makes it even easier for them to outrun/doge swarms...which is the reason I felt compelled to start this thread in the first place.
It's impossible the Incubus took 10k damage and still lived. The max they can tank is about 4.7k eHP. With the 45% resistance to swarms you get 6.8k eHP. So the 10k damage dealt with the AV with him still flying away is impossible.
I'm a logi now! :D
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Hakyou Brutor
G0DS AM0NG MEN
Dirt Nap Squad.
187
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Zaaeed Massani wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:No. You said that you already wrecked tanks, so what effect would they have on that? You weren't paying very close attention, but I'll say it again... There were two Wiyrkomi Swarms and one ADV Forge Gunner. If we weren't wrecking tanks there would be something wrong. Quote:Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway? No... If they fit missile for the purpose of being able to kill infantry, then an infantry weapon that is specialized for AV should be capable of killing them back. It;s that simple. Bro, I'm sorry, but if you can't kill ONE dropship with two proto swarms and a forger then you're either trying to kill Snugglz or you're bad at AV. You're not getting it, are you. Yes, perhaps the forge gunner could have had a better aim, I was busy switching to my ACR and keeping infantry off him from time to time...but the point is that it is SO EASY for an ADS to out run a flock of swarms in the blink of an eye. If you can't see (and acknowledge) the problem there then I'm finished responding to you.
Sounds like you need better positioning my friend. Learn how to fly a dropship and get up high with your AV. No chance of infantry getting on your case, except snipers which can be easily countered with triage hives or a counter-sniper.
I'm a logi now! :D
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
931
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Awry Barux wrote:
It should at least be reduced. Pythons can't handle a mass increase to offset it, since agility is their real advantage over the legions of Incubii, but it means that one swarm makes it extremely hard to aim, and two, especially with de-synced firing, makes it all but impossible. I'm not a great pilot, but I consider myself at least somewhat competent- you shouldn't need to be "great" to be able to aim despite a single MLT swarm buffeting you around.
It's called a weakness. 80GJ Railguns have an area around them that they can't fight back in, a Swarm Launcher can't attack Infantry, and Forge Guns can't re-supply ammo by themselves. Welcome to the party.
And ADS's are flying tinfoil that forges and rail guns punch through like, well tinfoil. Swarms can knock them upside down while the people launching them duck in and out of cover. Don't act like swarmers have it so bad, fire and forget and all.
Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you!
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
114
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP doesn't read the forums.
Too many complaints to sift through.
Swarms need to be buffed. They're far from fire and forget.
+dumbfire with splash damage
+75m additional lock on range
+faster rocket speeds
+10-20% more damage
ADS is supposedly a hit and run gunship. They run far too well. Here's an idea..
Give AFTERBURNERS a limited amount of uses. (like you did with ammo for tanks)
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
931
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zaaeed Massani wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:No. You said that you already wrecked tanks, so what effect would they have on that? You weren't paying very close attention, but I'll say it again... There were two Wiyrkomi Swarms and one ADV Forge Gunner. If we weren't wrecking tanks there would be something wrong. Quote:Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway? No... If they fit missile for the purpose of being able to kill infantry, then an infantry weapon that is specialized for AV should be capable of killing them back. It;s that simple.
How about some splash damage on my rail turret then? After all I should be able to kill you back without having to get lucky in one of my 175 shots I fire at you. Fair is fair after all.
Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you!
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
6839
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Posted - 2014.04.17 23:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:Atiim wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:
Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway?
No. If your making them fly away your simply giving them a 0 ISK, 100% risk-free pass. It's all about perspective, bud. It's not about costing them ISK, it's about making them retreat to the redline and making them useless to the team, or, of course die. You're saying you want to be able to kill a 500k ISK dropship before they even have a chance to retreat.
No I'm saying that a person in the 500k ISK dropship shouldn't be able to evade with a near 100% guarantee.
I have to risk something by bringing out my AV suit, what makes you special?
Heaven's Lost Swarmer
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Hakyou Brutor
G0DS AM0NG MEN
Dirt Nap Squad.
187
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Posted - 2014.04.18 00:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:Atiim wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:
Also, if you're making them fly away aren't you doing your job anyway?
No. If your making them fly away your simply giving them a 0 ISK, 100% risk-free pass. It's all about perspective, bud. It's not about costing them ISK, it's about making them retreat to the redline and making them useless to the team, or, of course die. You're saying you want to be able to kill a 500k ISK dropship before they even have a chance to retreat. No I'm saying that a person in the 500k ISK dropship shouldn't be able to evade with a near 100% guarantee. I have to risk something by bringing out my AV suit, what makes you special?
What makes me special? Hmm I'll get back to you on that.
It's not 100% guarantee that you get away safe. If there are two proto swarmers and a forger, then the swarmers hit the ADS once each, and the forger hits him twice it's guaranteed the ADS is dead. So it's not the fact that the ADS pilot just flies away, it's that the AVers aren't very good.
I'm a logi now! :D
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
220
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Posted - 2014.04.18 01:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:It's impossible the Incubus took 10k damage and still lived. The max they can tank is about 4.7k eHP. With the 45% resistance to swarms you get 6.8k eHP. So the 10k damage dealt with the AV with him still flying away is impossible.
Whatever fit he had, it wasn't that. He had over 3800 armor and was repping at significantly more than 75 hp/s. My passives aren't that great for vehicles as I'm primarily an infantry guy, but I know from the skill points I do have in vehicles that his fit wasn't the one you had up.
Hakyou Brutor wrote:
Sounds like you need better positioning my friend. Learn how to fly a dropship and get up high with your AV. No chance of infantry getting on your case, except snipers which can be easily countered with triage hives or a counter-sniper.
Edit: I understand what you're saying, I "acknowledge" that the dropship can out fly your swarms, but is that a bad thing? Imagine a game where you lost 500k ISK cause some guy decided that he'd shoot at you three times and you had absolutely nothing to counter, you were screwed, and don't say "oh, he can shoot me though." BS. You try sitting there shooting someone with an ADS, bouncing all around the place from forges and swarms, while taking "10k" damage.
Did you even read any of my previous posts? I'm actually quite a good dropship pilot...but I only have 10.8M SP and I'm focused mostly on infantry at the moment. Once I get my PC fit all done (my CEO is riding me to get PC-ready) then I'll start getting back into vehicles again. Almost daily I have people in my corp or alliance ask me to teach them to fly.
If I get up high with my AV, I'm a sitting duck with no cover for when mister ADS decides to mosey on over with his lolsplashdamage missiles. Having a 100% certain chance of outrunning missiles...that are by definition supposed to be damned fast...is horseshit. You want me to try? I have. It's challenging, but it's more than doable. Pythons I have a little bit less of an issue with because they're less tanky...but an Incubus able to tank that much and still outrun missiles on a whim is dumb.
I can't pretend that I would have survived the barrage that we threw at this guy, because I wouldn't have. My vehicle skills just aren't skilled high enough. But I can shoot people just fine while getting "bounced all over the place".
Fly better.
Henchmen21 wrote:
And ADS's are flying tinfoil that forges and rail guns punch through like, well tinfoil. Swarms can knock them upside down while the people launching them duck in and out of cover. Don't act like swarmers have it so bad, fire and forget and all.
They're NOT fire-and-forget. They're "wait to fire until the burner is on cd, the hardener is on cd, oh wait the burner is back..."
They're dumb ass missiles that are stupidly easy to get away from.
Henchmen21 wrote:
How about some splash damage on my rail turret then? After all I should be able to kill you back without having to get lucky in one of my 175 shots I fire at you. Fair is fair after all.
Are we talking large or small rails? I assume small since this has been a dropship discussion...
...no. You want to kill me, you run missiles as they already have splash damage. If you need to run a rail turret so badly, you sacrifice your ability to kill infantry as easily. Otherwise I want my Breach Mass Driver to have homing grenades.
Fair?
Quote:
Atiim
No I'm saying that a person in the 500k ISK dropship shouldn't be able to evade with a near 100% guarantee.
I have to risk something by bringing out my AV suit, what makes you special?
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Hakyou Brutor
It's not 100% guarantee that you get away safe. If there are two proto swarmers and a forger, then the swarmers hit the ADS once each, and the forger hits him twice it's guaranteed the ADS is dead. So it's not the fact that the ADS pilot just flies away, it's that the AVers aren't very good.
Hit the afterburner and gtfo = 100%. Once a dropship gets more than 250m away (the blink of an eye with a burner going) and flies an unpredictable pattern, if the forge gunner can reliably hit you that dude needs to stop playing dust and go start foretelling the future.
Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando
/
Do you even lift?
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Jimbo Boilstaff
THE MASSIVE DYNAMIC
100
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Posted - 2014.04.18 01:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
I love flying my ADS.... My beautiful Python....
And AV vs the Python is definitely more in balance since the recent update..... particularly swarm launchers which are a complete nightmare now for us.... Cannot laugh them off and ignore them like we could before... I've suffered quite a few *ahem deaths to them recently
There's a lot more dropships being used now since the tanks are less effective,,, but for me I think the problem across all vehicles is the afterburners and boosters..... Just take these out of the game entirely... they encourage too much of a
'i'll keep going until im almost dead then run outa there quick'
kind of playstyle
The tanks escape way too often (and are fast enough in the first place).... and only learner pilots use the afterburners in an ADS... those things are fast enough in the first place.... So take them out and force vehicles to commit to situations |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
221
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Posted - 2014.04.18 01:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jimbo Boilstaff wrote:I love flying my ADS.... My beautiful Python....
And AV vs the Python is definitely more in balance since the recent update..... particularly swarm launchers which are a complete nightmare now for us.... Cannot laugh them off and ignore them like we could before... I've suffered quite a few *ahem deaths to them recently
There's a lot more dropships being used now since the tanks are less effective,,, but for me I think the problem across all vehicles is the afterburners and boosters..... Just take these out of the game entirely... they encourage too much of a
'i'll keep going until im almost dead then run outa there quick'
kind of playstyle
The tanks escape way too often (and are fast enough in the first place).... and only learner pilots use the afterburners in an ADS... those things are fast enough in the first place.... So take them out and force vehicles to commit to situations
I'm ok with this.
And yes, I have many fewer problems with Pythons than Incubi. I'm much less bitter when I almost kill a Python but he gets me first.
Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando
/
Do you even lift?
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ratamaq doc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
544
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Posted - 2014.04.18 02:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
The afterburner is BS, so is the flight ceiling, straight up is what pisses me off, if it were just fly to the other side of the map I could chase him reasonably well in an LAV.
Swarms in no way are as advanced as modern IRL missles, however, A/C in this game also are missing the fundemental counters to modern A/A missiles, which is RAW gear and countermeasures. This has been asked for by the community many many times, even acknowledged and said would be part of the game back in beta, but has never come and is never talked about.
Swarms paint, pilots should have a Bitching Betty to let them know they are painted, they should also have the option of a countermesure module that pops chaff, takes skill to use, and operates on a cool down like a module, or ammo like a turret complete with reload times and limited ammo. ABs should not outrun missles, but pilots should have a way to survive A/A fire if they have both the hard and soft skills for it. While I admit that flying a DS and ADS does take skill, activating a module and pressing L1 or whever the **** boost is fly to the top of the map, eat a sandwitch while the swarm merc gets waisted by whatever red dot is in range with a real primary weapon, then comes back after his 30 second break, does not, and that is all a pilot has to do to save himself from swarm volleys.
YouTube
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
223
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Posted - 2014.04.18 02:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:The afterburner is BS, so is the flight ceiling, straight up is what pisses me off, if it were just fly to the other side of the map I could chase him reasonably well in an LAV.
Swarms in no way are as advanced as modern IRL missles, however, A/C in this game also are missing the fundemental counters to modern A/A missiles, which is RAW gear and countermeasures. This has been asked for by the community many many times, even acknowledged and said would be part of the game back in beta, but has never come and is never talked about.
Swarms paint, pilots should have a Bitching Betty to let them know they are painted, they should also have the option of a countermesure module that pops chaff, takes skill to use, and operates on a cool down like a module, or ammo like a turret complete with reload times and limited ammo. ABs should not outrun missles, but pilots should have a way to survive A/A fire if they have both the hard and soft skills for it. While I admit that flying a DS and ADS does take skill, activating a module and pressing L1 or whever the **** boost is fly to the top of the map, eat a sandwitch while the swarm merc gets waisted by whatever red dot is in range with a real primary weapon, then comes back after his 30 second break, does not, and that is all a pilot has to do to save himself from swarm volleys.
+1
A.R.C. Program Instructor
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Do you even lift?
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
6845
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Posted - 2014.04.18 03:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:
And ADS's are flying tinfoil that forges and rail guns punch through like, well tinfoil. Swarms can knock them upside down while the people launching them duck in and out of cover. Don't act like swarmers have it so bad, fire and forget and all.
In order to be "fire and forget" they would have to be a 100% chance that your Swarms will hit your target.
Though it must take a lot of skill to pop afterburners and hug the flight ceiling the moment something actually manages to hit you. 
Heaven's Lost Swarmer
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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