Do me a favor and when in a game look around really fast and tell me

can you focus on any object while your doing it?



the answer is no, becuase eyes dont work like that


so sure you can see the highly visable scouts, when your standing still and focused on a single direction. but the moment you move to check your back the screen blurs and that blue outline cant be seen untill you stay looking at a single point and let the image sharpen.

the cloak is camoflauge, and it works by disrupting the brains ability to use its pattern regocnition to say "oh hey thats a person and not part of the visual background noise my brain normally filters out"

http://science.howstuffworks.com/military-camouflage1.htm

science *****

While running around AS a Scout (not cloaked), I catch sight of the shimmering blue and turn to look. WITHOUT STOPPING, I can locate and track cloaked targets, whether they're moving or not.

Nice link, but it's hardly relevant to the "camouflage" used in DUST.

Camouflaged soldier in real life.

Cloaked soldier in DUST

Gameplay does not equal real life.

While running around AS a Scout (not cloaked), I catch sight of the shimmering blue and turn to look. WITHOUT STOPPING, I can locate and track cloaked targets, whether they're moving or not.

Nice link, but it's hardly relevant to the "camouflage" used in DUST.

Camouflaged soldier in real life.

Cloaked soldier in DUST

Gameplay does not equal real life.

>.>

i urge you to relate to HOW and WHY camouflage works rather then what it looks like

theres also a section in that article that explains why if you catch sight of a cloaky its easyer to continue to track them

I urge you to relate to how CLOAKED PLAYERS LIGHT UP WITH A BLUE GLOW.

The colour of the cloak effect is distinct and practically unique within the context of the game. The only things with a similar shade of blue are other dangerous things - Forge Gun charge, for example. If you're competent and alert while playing DUST, you will find that blue colour to be a beacon that draws your attention once you realise what you're looking for.

You noticed the part where I said I routinely "LOCATE and track" targets while moving, right? It's not just keeping track after finding them, but the finding part you say is MEANT to be hard.

I'm not saying that camouflage doesn't work as that link describes. I'm saying the cloak in DUST doesn't qualify as camouflage by the definition provided.

and the only information youve put forth to support that statement is that its blue...

wich everyone knows is more or less visable depending on the surounding environment.

the "blue glow" doesnt actually glow, it doesnt produce any light effects whatsoever, so in a dark environment it blends in better and futher obscurs the features.

its camoflauge dude, its even environmentally dependant.

even a dude wearing bright yellow is camoflauged in a field of sunflowers. so a bright yellow jumpsuit is camoflauge in the correct environment.

your too hung up on what it looks like and not how camoflauge works. ANYTHING can be camoflauge in the right environment, the cloak just happens to be damn ******* good camoflauge in most of them.

for instance my mother works in a school, and becuase of her height and the clothing she wears shes perfectly camoflauged in a group of students and doesnt stand out as an authority figure if your not purposly looking for her in that environment. she uses this to her advantage to eavesdrop on conversations and wander about amung the student undetected. if you happen to know what shes wearing that day and are purposly looking for her you can spot here but in passing you just arnt going to notice her. she blends the **** in

camoflauge can be anything dude

if you happen to know what shes wearing that day and are purposly looking for her you can spot her

That's not entirely correct. The blue glow may not put out lighting effects onto the environment around it, but it's a vibrant colour with a glow effect. And in darkness, it DOESN'T dim, and is more visible than it is in lighter environments. The more brightly-lit spaces are where cloaks are most difficult to see - and even there the cloak is fairly visible (if you have your TV settings right, and have decent vision).


Well fortunately for me, there are no fields of blue lights on any map in DUST so far, so cloaks are still quite visible in all the environments where you can encounter them in the game. It doesn't provide a proper camouflage effect, and your claim is blatantly incorrect.


Now lets look closer at the point where the entire argument falls apart, which incidentally is exactly why cloaks in DUST aren't a viable camouflage.


THE SAME PRINCIPLE APPLIES IN DUST.

If you know there will be blue glowy people, then you can keep an eye out for blue glowy people, and the blue glowy people won't slip past you as easily as they do when you're not paying attention to the fact that blue glowy people are a threat and you should look out for them.

When you know what your "camouflage" teacher friend is wearing, she's easy to find. When you know the colour of a cloaker in DUST, they're easy to find. IT. DOESN'T. HIDE. YOU.

The only times where cloaked players are actually legitimately hard to find are:

1. When you're not aware of what you're looking for,
2. When your TV settings aren't optimised for gaming and makes cloaks harder to see than they should be, and
3. When you legitimately have vision problems and probably have minor trouble seeing uncloaked enemies as well.

Problem 1 is fixed by knowing what to look for, and problem 2 is fixed by not ignoring the settings on your TV. Unfortunately, as someone who isn't qualified to treat eye damage, I can't really help with the 3rd problem.

even if you know what she is wearing, if your say, talking to a friend you wont see her. any minor distraction interupts your ability to see it.

if it in no way hides your profile, obscures peoples ability to see you, why on earth would anyone use it?

the answer is it hides your profile and obscures peoples ability to see you... making it ******* camoflauge.

it seems you have to make alot of effort to see something thats aparently as visable and noticable as someone not wearing a cloak.

If you have that little ability to observe your surroundings while minimally distracted, that's not my fault. When you're in a fight in DUST, it's easy to fail to notice someone who ISN'T cloaked, and someone who is cloaked will slip past JUST AS EASILY - not more easily - while you're distracted. It isn't the cloak that lets players slip past distracted enemies, it's good timing.


No, actually the answer is that it acts as an active module version of a profile dampener to help you hide from enemy scanners. There's also the fact that a lot of people DON'T YET KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR, and it allows you to exploit their lack of awareness. The best nerf for cloaking would be in-game tips which provide images of cloaked suits and an explanation of how the crosshairs light up when you're on-target.


It seems I have to make just as much effort to see someone not wearing a cloak. It's easy either way, unless I'm very involved in a CQC fight with someone.

so for the record your officially stating that a cloaked red is in all cases just as easy to see as a red without a cloak?

I'm saying that the difference is negligible.

There are times where a cloaked player will be easier to see than someone without a cloak, and there are times when they'll be slightly less visible. Just like the different coloured dropsuits for each tier can be more or less visible depending on the environment.

If you're looking for unusual colour and for movement, rather than for a couple of very specific shapes, you'll find it a LOT easier to track enemies.

>.>

i urge you to relate to HOW and WHY camouflage works rather then what it looks like

theres also a section in that article that explains why if you catch sight of a cloaky its easyer to continue to track them

you realise when they stand still there is no color right?

near perfect camouflage in any environment in any lighting the only real signs are a red marker when you aim at it and a slight light distortion that isnt so easy to pick up unless you followed the target untill it stopped.

No, I don't "realise" that because IT'S NOT TRUE. They're a lot less obvious while standing still, but they're still visible and the blue is still there. What I realise is that you can see cloaked players pretty easily if you're alert and have your TV colour settings decent EVEN when they're standing still.


FAR from perfect camouflage in any environment, and worse in dimmer lighting. The only real signs are a red marker when you aim at it and a BRIGHT BLUE GLOWING EFFECT that gets EVEN BRIGHTER if you happen to catch them while they're moving.

Sorry OP but this is a better example, watch the video and see how many changes you can notice, then in the related bar watch the version without the flicker.
Your eyes work by taking a series of small snap shot images a second and stitching them together in your brain.

http://youtu.be/BLYsXpD8sSc

Kind of like how a panoramic shot on camera works, just a lot faster, if a unit is camouflaged/cloaked (just more difficult to focus directly on) the probability that you will completly miss it increase rapidly.

Since the cloak is hard to see (as by design) your eyes do not focus on it as an important object. Instead your brain in some cases will even filter it out, believing the subtle change in colour shouldn't be there.

This is why cloaks are difficult to spot, why you can't say use your eyes. Your eyes are the enemy especially when it comes to visual illusions.

My cal scout Cko sees everything ........Every. ..thing.

The Caldari Scout's extreme precision gives you visual indications on the map and in the 3 dimensional surroundings of the game. If the precision only worked via the map even cloaked enemies could get passed by standing still. But that would only be in an environment with some vertical factors to it, which unfortunately, most maps do not have much of.


























All they need to do is make it so that scouts can't tank armor.

Do me a favor and when in a game look around really fast and tell me

can you focus on any object while your doing it?



the answer is no, becuase eyes dont work like that


so sure you can see the highly visable scouts, when your standing still and focused on a single direction. but the moment you move to check your back the screen blurs and that blue outline cant be seen untill you stay looking at a single point and let the image sharpen.

the cloak is camoflauge, and it works by disrupting the brains ability to use its pattern regocnition to say "oh hey thats a person and not part of the visual background noise my brain normally filters out"

http://science.howstuffworks.com/military-camouflage1.htm

science *****

No, I don't "realise" that because IT'S NOT TRUE. They're a lot less obvious while standing still, but they're still visible and the blue is still there. What I realise is that you can see cloaked players pretty easily if you're alert and have your TV colour settings decent EVEN when they're standing still.


FAR from perfect camouflage in any environment, and worse in dimmer lighting. The only real signs are a red marker when you aim at it and a BRIGHT BLUE GLOWING EFFECT that gets EVEN BRIGHTER if you happen to catch them while they're moving.

While running around AS a Scout (not cloaked), I catch sight of the shimmering blue and turn to look. WITHOUT STOPPING, I can locate and track cloaked targets, whether they're moving or not.

Nice link, but it's hardly relevant to the "camouflage" used in DUST.

Camouflaged soldier in real life.

Cloaked soldier in DUST

Gameplay does not equal real life.

thats another thing i kinda sorta knew about but couldnt explain.

if i remember corerctly since your eyes flicker AND the TV screen or miniter you use flickers is sorta compounds the issue doesnt it? making it more difficult then it would be in real life (if such a thing exsisted)?

mostly the cloak works because your brain filters it out as a sort of visual background noise

Do me a favor and when in a game look around really fast and tell me

can you focus on any object while your doing it?



the answer is no, becuase eyes dont work like that


so sure you can see the highly visable scouts, when your standing still and focused on a single direction. but the moment you move to check your back the screen blurs and that blue outline cant be seen untill you stay looking at a single point and let the image sharpen.

the cloak is camoflauge, and it works by disrupting the brains ability to use its pattern regocnition to say "oh hey thats a person and not part of the visual background noise my brain normally filters out"

http://science.howstuffworks.com/military-camouflage1.htm

science *****

Do me a favor and when in a game look around really fast and tell me

can you focus on any object while your doing it?



the answer is no, becuase eyes dont work like that


so sure you can see the highly visable scouts, when your standing still and focused on a single direction. but the moment you move to check your back the screen blurs and that blue outline cant be seen untill you stay looking at a single point and let the image sharpen.

the cloak is camoflauge, and it works by disrupting the brains ability to use its pattern regocnition to say "oh hey thats a person and not part of the visual background noise my brain normally filters out"

http://science.howstuffworks.com/military-camouflage1.htm

science *****

Do me a favor and when in a game look around really fast and tell me

can you focus on any object while your doing it?



the answer is no, becuase eyes dont work like that


so sure you can see the highly visable scouts, when your standing still and focused on a single direction. but the moment you move to check your back the screen blurs and that blue outline cant be seen untill you stay looking at a single point and let the image sharpen.

the cloak is camoflauge, and it works by disrupting the brains ability to use its pattern regocnition to say "oh hey thats a person and not part of the visual background noise my brain normally filters out"

http://science.howstuffworks.com/military-camouflage1.htm

science *****

I always catch then right before I get shot gunned in the face or they Stand in a door way I know there around when the REs go off and there are no reds in sight, the problem is the power to be invisible with no actual hard counter or draw backs, you can go invisible as much as you want without a worry in the world, flux nades won't take em out and the only way to catch em on scans is with a proto cal scout hunter,

Cloaks are OP as hell and need a hard counter and higher fitting requirement your should have to choose between a cloak and RE and HP and firearm.

Is that why you hide in a tank?

not a tanker...

i pull out sicas ocasionally to nuke pain in the ass tripple rep maddies but thats about it

Funny.

You always claimed to be a tanker pre 1.8. Saw you constantly in rail tanks. You lobbied extensively for rendering fixes for railguns. Seems suspiciously like a tanker.

Here are the pictures provided by CCP where is the blue when standing still?
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/equipment-uprising-1.8/

Garrett if you can still see blue when they are standing still you need to
A) Have someone sequence your genome to see if they can find a gentic marker to use in super genetically modified soilders
B) Go to an opticians have them exam your eyes, see if they can find a physical difference which they can use in the future to repair damage eyes
C) Get out of this discussion because you have an above average eyesight and therefore your point are null and void.

Yes, I can see anyone shimmering if I turn quickly.
No, I can't see them if they're standing still and I turn quickly.
Yes, I can see them if they're standing still and I focus.

If you can't see anyone in a BRIGHT, BLUE SHIMMER then you're probably in need of better glasses or something.

You're forgetting the most important one.

D) People who have trouble should change the settings on their TV so they can see them too.

It's really, REALLY not that hard.

1. Turn up contrast and colour.
2. Notice that all your games look better because this is the equivalent of a "dynamic mode" which is better for fast-paced movies as well as gaming.
3. Realise that those "sneaky invisible people" are suddenly, magically no longer anywhere near as invisible.

Alternatively, there is another possibility which you also missed.

E) Your TV sucks. Upgrade.

My TV doesn't need an upgrade it's already 1080p.