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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3270
   |
Posted - 2014.04.13 22:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
From the discussion here. There is still a lot of debate on how many things can and need to be addressed even in the PC 1.0 environment. Two things are clear though that need to be fixed asap to at least start to right the PC 1.0 ship while better hot fixes can be implemented:
- Increase clones packs to 150 at the current per clone cost.
- Turn off clone auto sale to Genolution.
If auto sale is to difficult then I'm pretty sure CCP can at least manage to change the clone pack numbers. Players like Matthew Dust and Traky are doing their best to continue participating in Planetary Conquest as it is, but CCP needs to give them effective tools to wage their wars.
Increasing the clone pack size would literally take minutes to address and there is no reason that it can't be done even as soon as this week. I sincerely hope that CCP can see the importance of a simple change like this and find the time to implement it. Players have been asking for a clone pack size increase back to 150 clones for MONTHS. Yes we got an increase from 100 to 120, but all serious PC players would tell you that barely made a dent in the problem. I understand very well that everyone at CCP is very busy with their prep for FanFest, but the Dust 514 community doesn't just stop while that goes on.
Thank you for your time.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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General John Ripper
19940
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 22:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1
many pc players have been asking for a clone pack increase since pc came out. 120 clones just made no sense.
Everytime I get a like, another bug is fixed.
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noobsniper the 2nd
Inner.Hell
391
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 22:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
QQ kain
"things are made of stuff"-Bill Nye
MAG vet raven ftw
Pre 1.8 scout don't throw me in with that rift raft
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
656
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 22:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:From the discussion here. There is still a lot of debate on how many things can and need to be addressed even in the PC 1.0 environment. Two things are clear though that need to be fixed asap to at least start to right the PC 1.0 ship while better hot fixes can be implemented:
- Increase clones packs to 150 at the current per clone cost.
- Turn off clone auto sale to Genolution.
If auto sale is to difficult then I'm pretty sure CCP can at least manage to change the clone pack numbers. Players like Matthew Dust and Traky are doing their best to continue participating in Planetary Conquest as it is, but CCP needs to give them effective tools to wage their wars. Increasing the clone pack size would literally take minutes to address and there is no reason that it can't be done even as soon as this week. I sincerely hope that CCP can see the importance of a simple change like this and find the time to implement it. Players have been asking for a clone pack size increase back to 150 clones for MONTHS. Yes we got an increase from 100 to 120, but all serious PC players would tell you that barely made a dent in the problem. I understand very well that everyone at CCP is very busy with their prep for FanFest, but the Dust 514 community doesn't just stop while that goes on. Thank you for your time.
3rd |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
12308
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 22:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hey, you guys out here complaining about the massive blue donut that PC is and how impossible it is to get in, etc etc?
Clone packs are the problem here. It's not feasible to win much at all against a top corp with just a clone pack. Get your +1s going.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
EUrobro
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6685
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Hey, you guys out here complaining about the massive blue donut that PC is and how impossible it is to get in, etc etc?
Clone packs are the problem here. It's not feasible to win much at all against a top corp with just a clone pack. Get your +1s going.
QQ Kane
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
12312
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Hey, you guys out here complaining about the massive blue donut that PC is and how impossible it is to get in, etc etc?
Clone packs are the problem here. It's not feasible to win much at all against a top corp with just a clone pack. Get your +1s going. QQ Kane
Hey, you should reapply to FA! 
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
EUrobro
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
League of Infamy
727
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Clone packs are the problem here. It's not feasible to win much at all against a top corp with just a clone pack. Get your +1s going.
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though.
o/
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3099
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
this concerns tens of players CCP! TENS I SAY!
Something must be done!
Hale Satin
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3274
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Clone packs are the problem here. It's not feasible to win much at all against a top corp with just a clone pack. Get your +1s going.
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though.
People that can win on a clone pack are the exception not the norm. Sure Escrow and FA can do it but most have little to no change. It's a super simple fix.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Killar-12
OLDSPICE.
Top Men.
2590
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
+1 Kain
How to Leave PC
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6689
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Hey, you should reapply to FA!
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6689
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Clone packs are the problem here. It's not feasible to win much at all against a top corp with just a clone pack. Get your +1s going.
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though.
It's possible, but not very realistic.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
How about that yes, And this crazy idea that's super simple as well.
Implode the donut.
... Yeah bad for business but good for everyone that would like to not be insta-gibbed by the combined might of the donut.
Just saying.
Rail rifle + Bolt Pistol= death at >50meters. Under 50, I die.
You can edit my posts, but you can't edit my sig
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
12315
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Clone packs are the problem here. It's not feasible to win much at all against a top corp with just a clone pack. Get your +1s going.
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though.
Possible, yes - but you are at a very significant disadvantage.
Feasible to wage a war with? No.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
EUrobro
|
Cubs Secretary
TeamPlayers
94
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
the sad truth here is the fact that CCP are the ones that CHANGED it in the FIRST PLACE!!
Yes the original clone pack PRICE was ridiculous, not the clones...
so what do they do? Make up some spreadsheet that somehow says the AVERAGE PC loses only 80 clones, so they reduced clone packs to 100 based on their moronic logic...
what happened next?
nothing... everyone that as played even 1 PC match openly commented, raged, belittled our upstanding programmers that this next number was so far off the mark that it instantly broke PC.
luckily at the time was the height of EoN and also the height of everyone else simply not giving a **** because so many other mechanics in PC were extremely broken. cant blame em tbh.
Then magically 1 day FoxFour turns on his hearing aid and listens to the outcry that had been around for quite some time. Makes a fancy devblog and informs everyone that in 2 days clone packs will be changed from 30m/100 to 36m/120
some idiots applaud the move as they had been out of PC for so long that any improvement was good enough for them...
Now fast forward a few months to today. same QQ over clones (100% justified) yet nothing happens.
I assume magically 1 day (your guess as good as mine as to when) that we will get the 150 clone pack again. likely even more cause hey, when CCP makes a change, they don't properly 'tweak' it but tip the scale in the complete opposite direction.
While I support this change, as I have since it was removed last June or whatever. I advise you all not to hold your breath ad sit around and wait for the change to be made.
120 clones can be won. yes its a different strategy, and no its not going to defeat the top corps (with any regularity at least).
ok rant over
but all truth...
Please take a number your call will be answered shortly. Sorry for the inconvenience
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
League of Infamy
728
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though.
Possible, yes - but you are at a very significant disadvantage. Feasible to wage a war with? No.
The idea is to wage war with your district clones, not drop clone packs like they're the bass at a Skrillex concert.
Clone packs are meant to be a bad choice, only used to get a foothold into PC territory.
o/
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
2759
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 23:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Whats this? The scrublord of molden heath is proposing changes which would put him at a disadvantage?
Head of public relations from The Rainbow Effect.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
1751
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 00:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:+1
many pc players have been asking for a clone pack increase since pc came out. 120 clones just made no sense.
It was 150 clones when PC first came out..
CCP reduced the clone count to 120 while reducing the clone pack cost. Probably something to do with the value of the clones. They did this because THEN the price of the clone pack cost being like 60 mil? was to much for an up and coming corporation to purchase on a regular basis. Sadly later with the later natural District locking mechanic changes the 120 clone pack was almost useless as it gave no real threat to any District holder aslong as they can kill 21 clones.
It used to be like 60 mil per clone pack but you got 150 clones.
This is just another example of CCP pissing all over their assets in the game to create a new option. The 150 clone pack should have never completely disappeared when making a cheaper 120 clone pack option it should of always stayed but had an Increased ISK sink cost to get the advantage of the extra 30 clones.
Much like completely removing corporation battles because you are launching PC.... Just a waste of assets for what? |
Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 00:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Whats this? The scrublord of molden heath is proposing changes which would put him at a disadvantage?
PR.
There are more problems in the players than in the game.
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3280
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 00:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though.
Possible, yes - but you are at a very significant disadvantage. Feasible to wage a war with? No. The idea is to wage war with your district clones, not drop clone packs like they're the bass at a Skrillex concert. Clone packs are meant to be a bad choice, only used to get a foothold into PC territory.
We had two matches going at once and didn't even have full teams and we cloned out WTF and the other attack.
120 is utter **** and no good to get a foothold. 150 is barely acceptable. Districts still allow you to throw 450 clones at another district so their advantage is still there especially when it comes to taking a district in 1 go.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
|
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
654
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 00:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Whats this? The scrublord of molden heath is proposing changes which would put him at a disadvantage? PR.
Have you ever even contemplated that Kane wants this for the good of the game? Do you even realize that DNS is trying to get PC fixed by showing CCP how ******* broken it is right now?
I highly doubt it because you guys don't think. Yes, a lot of us are here for ISK but even more are around for fights and to play with people we enjoy playing with.
Mmmm Scout ak.0
Projects: TDBS | SDETool
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Everything Dies
Inner.Hell
646
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 00:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
All this does nothing to change the fact that a few dozen players can completely dominate an entire game mode. As I understand it, PC became completely broken when corporations were able to rise to the top by taking on the role of mercenaries to the point where hiring them almost guaranteed a victory. Corporations lose a real sense of purpose if you're not even going to be fighting in a mode that's supposed to pit corporation v corporation and instead hire someone to do most of the heavy lifting.
In my opinion, there should be a penalty for fielding players outside of your own corporation in a battle (with a reduced penalty for fielding members of an alliance member.) What if your side was reduced by 5 clones for each ringer (2 or 3 for alliance members)? Could that be enough to prohibit corps from relying on the top 1% to win their battles for them?
I'm new to the PC business, so feel free to correct any wrong assumptions that I have made.
Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit.
Eight months has been long enough...guess it's time to learn how to play with a squad.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
499
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 00:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Whats this? The scrublord of molden heath is proposing changes which would put him at a disadvantage? PR. Have you ever even contemplated that Kane wants this for the good of the game? Do you even realize that DNS is trying to get PC fixed by showing CCP how ******* broken it is right now? I highly doubt it because you guys don't think. Yes, a lot of us are here for ISK but even more are around for fights and to play with people we enjoy playing with.
You mean the same way hellstorm did in 1.0 and eon did in 1.4?
Or perhaps since CCP has been talking about PC 2.0 since EVE Vegas/EVE down under?
Ya know, when they ACKNOWLEDGED PC 1.0 was broken beyond immediate repair.
The only reason this blue donut is lasting is because arkena's ' least resistance' theory is also compounded by the massive paycheck you collectively are getting.
The good fights are dead expect for the few joke brawls you bring between your corps.
I do applaud kane for trying to better the game, but even think he's doing so without massive benefit for himself in process is laughably naive.
Kanes a smart man with CPM knowledge, now either he knows a change is coming soon or not and blued MH for isk can't 100% be pinned on cpm status, because plausible deniability, but that's where we're at.
Kane is Judas, not Jesus. He's necessary to drive the plot forward, But did so on his means and is looked down on for it.
A hot fix isn't going to save 1.0
Nothing currently will.
A combination of these proposed changes and the disillusionment of the donut will.
But what do I know, im only thinking with the info available.
There are more problems in the players than in the game.
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Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
RISE of LEGION
889
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:this concerns tens of players CCP! TENS I SAY!
Something must be done!
LOL, this wins the thread.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
League of Infamy
730
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:
Have you ever even contemplated that Kane wants this for the good of the game? Do you even realize that DNS is trying to get PC fixed by showing CCP how ******* broken it is right now? .
Sorry, can't hear you over the billions per day you're earning while making your nebulous point.
o/
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3281
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:All this does nothing to change the fact that a few dozen players can completely dominate an entire game mode. As I understand it, PC became completely broken when corporations were able to rise to the top by taking on the role of mercenaries to the point where hiring them almost guaranteed a victory. Corporations lose a real sense of purpose if you're not even going to be fighting in a mode that's supposed to pit corporation v corporation and instead hire someone to do most of the heavy lifting.
In my opinion, there should be a penalty for fielding players outside of your own corporation in a battle (with a reduced penalty for fielding members of an alliance member.) What if your side was reduced by 5 clones for each ringer (2 or 3 for alliance members)? Could that be enough to prohibit corps from relying on the top 1% to win their battles for them?
I'm new to the PC business, so feel free to correct any wrong assumptions that I have made.
Problem is the resources aren't there to affect any of these kinds of changes. The clone pack size increase at the very least is something that can improve the situation.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
|
LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
98
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Do you even realize that DNS is trying to get PC fixed by showing CCP how ******* broken it is right now?
Somehow I find it hard to believe that benevolence and the greater good is your motivation here. What community building cause have you spent the proceeds on?
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Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
313
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 01:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sounds like Wal-Mart paying its employees 1-ó on the dollar for all the profit they make, then being mystified when said employees can't afford to drive to work. This is a cyclical jerk that may be beneficial to pc in the long run but by that time whatever new economic fix will be null and void because the free entrepreneurs will have game breaking amounts of isk. I have....about 150mil self earned, and I very well could run proto heavies until dust goes to ps4. I can't imagine how little the 1% thinks about the "economy". Now to be fair, I don't care about the 1%, I don't care about pc or meta, I don't care about dust elitism, and I only slightly care about what happens to the game. I do surf the forum often and I play a few games daily, I can only imagine how aggravating this could be for those of you that do.
TL: Pc is broken, has been broken, and can't be unbroken with the current state of economics in dust. Turn it off until it is fixed or suffer an economic backlash that will affect us all.
Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.
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General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
183
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:From the discussion here. There is still a lot of debate on how many things can and need to be addressed even in the PC 1.0 environment. Two things are clear though that need to be fixed asap to at least start to right the PC 1.0 ship while better hot fixes can be implemented:
- Increase clones packs to 150 at the current per clone cost.
- Turn off clone auto sale to Genolution.
If auto sale is to difficult then I'm pretty sure CCP can at least manage to change the clone pack numbers. Players like Matthew Dust and Traky are doing their best to continue participating in Planetary Conquest as it is, but CCP needs to give them effective tools to wage their wars. Increasing the clone pack size would literally take minutes to address and there is no reason that it can't be done even as soon as this week. I sincerely hope that CCP can see the importance of a simple change like this and find the time to implement it. Players have been asking for a clone pack size increase back to 150 clones for MONTHS. Yes we got an increase from 100 to 120, but all serious PC players would tell you that barely made a dent in the problem. I understand very well that everyone at CCP is very busy with their prep for FanFest, but the Dust 514 community doesn't just stop while that goes on. Thank you for your time.
im more of a FW fighter than a PC one, but this change makes sense.
Every suit Gk.0 <3
Gallente Federation Patriot
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
678
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
+1
but you're still an exploitative piece of ****!
We can pickle that.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
502
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Everything Dies wrote:All this does nothing to change the fact that a few dozen players can completely dominate an entire game mode. As I understand it, PC became completely broken when corporations were able to rise to the top by taking on the role of mercenaries to the point where hiring them almost guaranteed a victory. Corporations lose a real sense of purpose if you're not even going to be fighting in a mode that's supposed to pit corporation v corporation and instead hire someone to do most of the heavy lifting.
In my opinion, there should be a penalty for fielding players outside of your own corporation in a battle (with a reduced penalty for fielding members of an alliance member.) What if your side was reduced by 5 clones for each ringer (2 or 3 for alliance members)? Could that be enough to prohibit corps from relying on the top 1% to win their battles for them?
I'm new to the PC business, so feel free to correct any wrong assumptions that I have made. Problem is the resources aren't there to affect any of these kinds of changes. The clone pack size increase at the very least is something that can improve the situation.
Since the resources aren't there, and minimalistic changes are all we can expect until 2.0 hits, perhaps coupled with your suggestion of clone pack increases, the reinforcement window can be elongated to 3 or perhaps 4 hours instead of its current 1.
It would allow for a more diverse attack time scheme as well as ensure a larger corporate garrison needed to defend since it wouldnt be set in stone to always hit at the same time in the window.
It would make the current mechanics of PC which allow handful of individuals to control vast expanses of land, unrealistic at best.
Logistically, it would be a nightmare for AE to hold the land they do currently if the attack window was wider.
and all it would take is change a single line of code. at most.
yay or nay?
There are more problems in the players than in the game.
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MythTanker
The Phoenix Federation
Caps and Mercs
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Clone packs are the problem here. It's not feasible to win much at all against a top corp with just a clone pack. Get your +1s going.
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though. People that can win on a clone pack are the exception not the norm. Sure Escrow and FA can do it but most have little to no change. It's a super simple fix.
+1 and you have gained my respect.(as a CPM) keep it up.
The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
1000
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:From the discussion here. There is still a lot of debate on how many things can and need to be addressed even in the PC 1.0 environment. Two things are clear though that need to be fixed asap to at least start to right the PC 1.0 ship while better hot fixes can be implemented:
- Increase clones packs to 150 at the current per clone cost.
- Turn off clone auto sale to Genolution.
If auto sale is to difficult then I'm pretty sure CCP can at least manage to change the clone pack numbers. Players like Matthew Dust and Traky are doing their best to continue participating in Planetary Conquest as it is, but CCP needs to give them effective tools to wage their wars. Increasing the clone pack size would literally take minutes to address and there is no reason that it can't be done even as soon as this week. I sincerely hope that CCP can see the importance of a simple change like this and find the time to implement it. Players have been asking for a clone pack size increase back to 150 clones for MONTHS. Yes we got an increase from 100 to 120, but all serious PC players would tell you that barely made a dent in the problem. I understand very well that everyone at CCP is very busy with their prep for FanFest, but the Dust 514 community doesn't just stop while that goes on. Thank you for your time.
Or
Greatly decrease price of clone packs
Done
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3286
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Or
Greatly decrease price of clone packs
Done
And then we are back to self-locking like it was before the clone pack refund was fixed.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
|
jerrmy12 kahoalii
1000
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Or
Greatly decrease price of clone packs
Done
And then we are back to self-locking like it was before the clone pack refund was fixed.
Your part too
No free isk
6, 10, or 15 mil clone packs, 6 mil seems better.
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6698
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Your part too
No free isk
6, 10, or 15 mil clone packs, 6 mil seems better.
When you take into account the amount of ISK you get for bio-massing clones, that will amount to free ISK, and it would make the locking problem even worse.
Even if, the price of the clone packs doesn't matter. We could make them 0 ISK and they'd still be garbage becuase you wouldn't have enough clones to successfully attack a district.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
1000
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Atiim wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Your part too
No free isk
6, 10, or 15 mil clone packs, 6 mil seems better.
When you take into account the amount of ISK you get for bio-massing clones, that will amount to free ISK, and it would make the locking problem even worse. Even if, the price of the clone packs doesn't matter. We could make them 0 ISK and they'd still be garbage becuase you wouldn't have enough clones to successfully attack a district.
Its for small corps and attacking
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
Dirt Nap Squad.
2465
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Increasing attack window to 2-3 hours would really change holding land in PC for sure.
+1 to the 150 clone pack as well. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6699
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Its for small corps and attacking
Kinda hard to make an attack when your almost guaranteed to get cloned.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3289
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6701
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones.
So that's what people mean by auto sale.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
2254
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones.
That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET.
-#Firmocosìperchènonhopersonalità
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Pirate of Penzance
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
9
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there
And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district. |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
2254
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
Pirate of Penzance wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district.
Already did the same with district locking- why not with clones selling.
-#Firmocosìperchènonhopersonalità
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3291
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:[It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there
I'll be honest, it's a band-aid, but I'm all for helping PC 1.0 any way we can if it's low bandwidth, can help spur activity, and makes it a better system.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Cubs Secretary
TeamPlayers
99
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 03:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:General John Ripper wrote:+1
many pc players have been asking for a clone pack increase since pc came out. 120 clones just made no sense. It was 150 clones when PC first came out.. CCP reduced the clone count to 120 while reducing the clone pack cost. Probably something to do with the value of the clones. They did this because THEN the price of the clone pack cost being like 60 mil? was to much for an up and coming corporation to purchase on a regular basis. Sadly later with the later natural District locking mechanic changes the 120 clone pack was almost useless as it gave no real threat to any District holder aslong as they can kill 21 clones. It used to be like 60 mil per clone pack but you got 150 clones. This is just another example of CCP pissing all over their assets in the game to create a new option. The 150 clone pack should have never completely disappeared when making a cheaper 120 clone pack option it should of always stayed but had an Increased ISK sink cost to get the advantage of the extra 30 clones. Much like completely removing corporation battles because you are launching PC.... Just a waste of assets for what?
Actually it was 80mil for 150 clones
Please take a number your call will be answered shortly. Sorry for the inconvenience
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
2254
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Pirate of Penzance wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district.
Already did the same with district locking- why not with clones selling. What about changing the reinforcement windows mechanics among with Auto Sale and Clone Packs? Why shouldn't CCP extend reinforcement windows from 1 to 3 hours? This way you are forced to choose the reinforcement window wisely and you cannot own too much land if you don't actually have a big amount of mercs ready to defend your districts.
-#Firmocosìperchènonhopersonalità
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3294
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Pirate of Penzance wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district. Already did the same with district locking- why not with clones selling. What about changing the reinforcement windows mechanics among with Auto Sale and Clone Packs? Why shouldn't CCP extend reinforcement windows from 1 to 3 hours? This way you are forced to choose the reinforcement window wisely and you cannot own too much land if you don't actually have a big amount of mercs ready to defend your districts.
Well, I finally landed the meeting with CCP to discuss easy PC 1.0 fixes and I'm going to bring up as much of this stuff as i can. I just have to caution that we may not be able to get any changes due the resource and time constraints right now.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1969
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Pirate of Penzance wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district. Already did the same with district locking- why not with clones selling. What about changing the reinforcement windows mechanics among with Auto Sale and Clone Packs? Why shouldn't CCP extend reinforcement windows from 1 to 3 hours? This way you are forced to choose the reinforcement window wisely and you cannot own too much land if you don't actually have a big amount of mercs ready to defend your districts. Well, I finally landed the meeting with CCP to discuss easy PC 1.0 fixes and I'm going to bring up as much of this stuff as i can. I just have to caution that we may not be able to get any changes due the resource and time constraints right now.
That's good news Kain. Good luck. Don't see any downside to xxwhitedevilxx's expansion of the reinforcement window as a temporary fix, especially when coupled to the proposed changes to the Genpack size.
If you can, find out how robust/flexible the current implementation of PC is: what do we have access to in a hot fix? what is easily changeable server side?
I support SP rollover.
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Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San
Dirt Nap Squad.
445
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:+1
many pc players have been asking for a clone pack increase since pc came out. 120 clones just made no sense.
your hyperlink signature isnt working o/
Me IRL :)
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3294
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote: If you can, find out how robust/flexible the current implementation of PC is: what do we have access to in a hot fix? what is easily changeable server side?
I plan on it.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
League of Infamy
731
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 04:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET.
Solution to timer spam:
1. Re-randomize all district timers.
2. Timers cannot be changed at a whim.
3. You can swap the timers of two districts you own.
That's it.
1 and 2 breaks gaming the timezone, but spreads the districts that each server can fight over to be relatively fair.
3 allows a corp to adjust a geographic region such that they all have similar time zones, at the expense of shuffling the other timer onto another district they've taken. And, this is reversible should that enclave be retaken by other corps.
o/
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Spartacus Dust
NECROM0NGERS
Caps and Mercs
365
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 05:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
agreed!
Twitter @Matthew_Dust
Executor of Caps and Mercs Alliance.
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The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion
League of Infamy
1108
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 05:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Wholeheartedly endorse this endeavour!
Once you go Black, you just never go back!
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Fire2MyBlunt
The Phoenix Federation
Caps and Mercs
184
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Posted - 2014.04.14 06:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
+1 I agree.
Proud member and Director of The Phoenix Federation
I don't go by chubby.. They call me the Hulk around here.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
12325
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 08:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though.
Possible, yes - but you are at a very significant disadvantage. Feasible to wage a war with? No. The idea is to wage war with your district clones, not drop clone packs like they're the bass at a Skrillex concert. Clone packs are meant to be a bad choice, only used to get a foothold into PC territory.
Which means it simply becomes impossible to wage war against an opponent holding more land as they get to permanently lock up your districts with attacks meaning you get none off while they just keep beating you down until they take the district again.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
EUrobro
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2854
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Posted - 2014.04.14 08:16:00 -
[58] - Quote
This is a serious no brainer and no one can argue against these changes being a good idea, whatever your opinion of Kane or DNS.
I would also go further and say that if both of the above are done, clone packs could easily be made much much cheaper because locking would be of no benefit to anyone. Yes, you could still make lots of isk by going in and killing off your own self-attacking clone pack but you'd still at least have to go into the battle, meaning that having dozens of districts would become a major pain to make any isk from.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3301
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 11:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:This is a serious no brainer and no one can argue against these changes being a good idea, whatever your opinion of Kane or DNS.
I would also go further and say that if both of the above are done, clone packs could easily be made much much cheaper because locking would be of no benefit to anyone. Yes, you could still make lots of isk by going in and killing off your own self-attacking clone pack but you'd still at least have to go into the battle, meaning that having dozens of districts would become a major pain to make any isk from.
They would have to implement the change where only clones killed in battle count towards the ISK total. Another question is what if the genolution sale value were reduced to 0 or 1 ISK and then the biomass price doubled? Would people fight for land that currently don't hold it?
The problem with going that route is that clone packs would still have to be set at their current per clone cost (300k) so that a self attack would not be profitable. It would also mean that the only way to get money out of PC would be through victory in battle, which may not be a bad thing.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
2228
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Posted - 2014.04.14 12:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
And you think CCP would listen this time because...? |
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Brush Master
HavoK Core
RISE of LEGION
1149
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Posted - 2014.04.14 13:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
+1
514th Wing // Team Fairy DUST // Havok Core
[email protected] // DustLottery.com
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3303
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Posted - 2014.04.14 14:20:00 -
[62] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:And you think CCP would listen this time because...?
They listened when I took player feedback to them regarding not being able to change timers after winning a district and implementing a re-up mechanic even if it was after pushing the issue pretty hard by me and Caz. They also listened when we suggested that they wait on removing War Barge strikes from PC so players would have time to build eve relationships given the OB change.
They also listened when we hounded them about locking for profit needing to burn in a fire. I've gotten push back when I've tried to shut of passive ISK before, but I think showing them the results of passive ISK with almost 99% of Molden Heath under the control of one entity finally is helping to get the message through. Sometimes you have to show and demonstrate that the system is broken.
When it comes to Planetary Conquest CCP has been ready to listen in most cases it just sometimes ends up with PC changes on the back burner due to the resources available at the time to address them.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2857
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Posted - 2014.04.14 17:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
I think we need to forget about trying to give players incentives to hold land in PC - it's too late for that. After removing auto-sale the only reason to hold land would be the ability to launch attacks without having to spend anything at all on clones but at this point none of that really matters.
It's too late to try to make PC1.0 any kind of strategic game - just let it be a free-for-all and everyone can have fun blasting the crap out of each other for the last few months of its life instead of worrying about hoarding isk and holding onto meaningless land. Battles will be plentiful purely because people want to have good fights and the big dogs will no longer be so bothered about holding their land, so the small fries will get a chance, the B, C and D teams will get to play so competitive and organised matches.
Give PC to everyone and then burn it to the ground to raise the pheonix of PC2.0 from the flames.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Fire2MyBlunt
The Phoenix Federation
Caps and Mercs
184
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:44:00 -
[64] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:I think we need to forget about trying to give players incentives to hold land in PC - it's too late for that. After removing auto-sale the only reason to hold land would be the ability to launch attacks without having to spend anything at all on clones but at this point none of that really matters.
It's too late to try to make PC1.0 any kind of strategic game - just let it be a free-for-all and everyone can have fun blasting the crap out of each other for the last few months of its life instead of worrying about hoarding isk and holding onto meaningless land. Battles will be plentiful purely because people want to have good fights and the big dogs will no longer be so bothered about holding their land, so the small fries will get a chance, the B, C and D teams will get to play so competitive and organised matches.
Give PC to everyone and then burn it to the ground to raise the pheonix of PC2.0 from the flames.
Did someone say Phoenix. :p.
I support this idea with being a corp fighting kains army. It would make it more fun :)
Proud member and Director of The Phoenix Federation
I don't go by chubby.. They call me the Hulk around here.
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Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1666
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Posted - 2014.04.14 19:18:00 -
[65] - Quote
Decrease the cost of clone packs and eliminate clone sales entirely. Lots of fights, defenders still make ISK because they can fight without clone packs. Fighting is encouraged.
Supporter of tiericide, EVE interaction, and a proper NPE SoonGäó514
"No blue tags make Tallen go crazy.
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Duke Noobiam
Nyain Chan
55
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Posted - 2014.04.14 23:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
As I mentioned (in more detail) in the other thread on this topic, the price of clone packs should be set by supply and demand.
This would make district locking drive down the price of clone packs and encourage battles/clone termination to drive up the price of clone packs.
How do you kill that which has no life?
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3340
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 14:38:00 -
[67] - Quote
The meeting with CCP went very well.
I think CCP understands that there are complex issues regarding Planetary Conquest with some potentially straight forward changes. The most important of these issues being passive ISK and clone pack size.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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