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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
678
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
+1
but you're still an exploitative piece of ****! 
We can pickle that.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
502
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Everything Dies wrote:All this does nothing to change the fact that a few dozen players can completely dominate an entire game mode. As I understand it, PC became completely broken when corporations were able to rise to the top by taking on the role of mercenaries to the point where hiring them almost guaranteed a victory. Corporations lose a real sense of purpose if you're not even going to be fighting in a mode that's supposed to pit corporation v corporation and instead hire someone to do most of the heavy lifting.
In my opinion, there should be a penalty for fielding players outside of your own corporation in a battle (with a reduced penalty for fielding members of an alliance member.) What if your side was reduced by 5 clones for each ringer (2 or 3 for alliance members)? Could that be enough to prohibit corps from relying on the top 1% to win their battles for them?
I'm new to the PC business, so feel free to correct any wrong assumptions that I have made. Problem is the resources aren't there to affect any of these kinds of changes. The clone pack size increase at the very least is something that can improve the situation.
Since the resources aren't there, and minimalistic changes are all we can expect until 2.0 hits, perhaps coupled with your suggestion of clone pack increases, the reinforcement window can be elongated to 3 or perhaps 4 hours instead of its current 1.
It would allow for a more diverse attack time scheme as well as ensure a larger corporate garrison needed to defend since it wouldnt be set in stone to always hit at the same time in the window.
It would make the current mechanics of PC which allow handful of individuals to control vast expanses of land, unrealistic at best.
Logistically, it would be a nightmare for AE to hold the land they do currently if the attack window was wider.
and all it would take is change a single line of code. at most.
yay or nay?
There are more problems in the players than in the game.
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MythTanker
The Phoenix Federation
Caps and Mercs
81
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Clone packs are the problem here. It's not feasible to win much at all against a top corp with just a clone pack. Get your +1s going.
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though. People that can win on a clone pack are the exception not the norm. Sure Escrow and FA can do it but most have little to no change. It's a super simple fix.
+1 and you have gained my respect.(as a CPM) keep it up.
The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his -George S. Patton
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
1000
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:From the discussion here. There is still a lot of debate on how many things can and need to be addressed even in the PC 1.0 environment. Two things are clear though that need to be fixed asap to at least start to right the PC 1.0 ship while better hot fixes can be implemented:
- Increase clones packs to 150 at the current per clone cost.
- Turn off clone auto sale to Genolution.
If auto sale is to difficult then I'm pretty sure CCP can at least manage to change the clone pack numbers. Players like Matthew Dust and Traky are doing their best to continue participating in Planetary Conquest as it is, but CCP needs to give them effective tools to wage their wars. Increasing the clone pack size would literally take minutes to address and there is no reason that it can't be done even as soon as this week. I sincerely hope that CCP can see the importance of a simple change like this and find the time to implement it. Players have been asking for a clone pack size increase back to 150 clones for MONTHS. Yes we got an increase from 100 to 120, but all serious PC players would tell you that barely made a dent in the problem. I understand very well that everyone at CCP is very busy with their prep for FanFest, but the Dust 514 community doesn't just stop while that goes on. Thank you for your time.
Or
Greatly decrease price of clone packs
Done
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3286
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Or
Greatly decrease price of clone packs
Done
And then we are back to self-locking like it was before the clone pack refund was fixed.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
1000
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Or
Greatly decrease price of clone packs
Done
And then we are back to self-locking like it was before the clone pack refund was fixed.
Your part too
No free isk
6, 10, or 15 mil clone packs, 6 mil seems better.
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6698
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Your part too
No free isk
6, 10, or 15 mil clone packs, 6 mil seems better.
When you take into account the amount of ISK you get for bio-massing clones, that will amount to free ISK, and it would make the locking problem even worse.
Even if, the price of the clone packs doesn't matter. We could make them 0 ISK and they'd still be garbage becuase you wouldn't have enough clones to successfully attack a district.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
1000
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Atiim wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Your part too
No free isk
6, 10, or 15 mil clone packs, 6 mil seems better.
When you take into account the amount of ISK you get for bio-massing clones, that will amount to free ISK, and it would make the locking problem even worse. Even if, the price of the clone packs doesn't matter. We could make them 0 ISK and they'd still be garbage becuase you wouldn't have enough clones to successfully attack a district.
Its for small corps and attacking
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
Dirt Nap Squad.
2465
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Increasing attack window to 2-3 hours would really change holding land in PC for sure.
+1 to the 150 clone pack as well. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6699
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
Its for small corps and attacking
Kinda hard to make an attack when your almost guaranteed to get cloned.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3289
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
6701
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones.
So that's what people mean by auto sale.
#LivingLikeLarry
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
2254
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones.
That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET.
-#Firmocosìperchènonhopersonalità
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Pirate of Penzance
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
9
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there
And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district. |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
2254
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
Pirate of Penzance wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district.
Already did the same with district locking- why not with clones selling.
-#Firmocosìperchènonhopersonalità
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3291
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:[It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there
I'll be honest, it's a band-aid, but I'm all for helping PC 1.0 any way we can if it's low bandwidth, can help spur activity, and makes it a better system.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Cubs Secretary
TeamPlayers
99
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:General John Ripper wrote:+1
many pc players have been asking for a clone pack increase since pc came out. 120 clones just made no sense. It was 150 clones when PC first came out.. CCP reduced the clone count to 120 while reducing the clone pack cost. Probably something to do with the value of the clones. They did this because THEN the price of the clone pack cost being like 60 mil? was to much for an up and coming corporation to purchase on a regular basis. Sadly later with the later natural District locking mechanic changes the 120 clone pack was almost useless as it gave no real threat to any District holder aslong as they can kill 21 clones. It used to be like 60 mil per clone pack but you got 150 clones. This is just another example of CCP pissing all over their assets in the game to create a new option. The 150 clone pack should have never completely disappeared when making a cheaper 120 clone pack option it should of always stayed but had an Increased ISK sink cost to get the advantage of the extra 30 clones. Much like completely removing corporation battles because you are launching PC.... Just a waste of assets for what?
Actually it was 80mil for 150 clones
Please take a number your call will be answered shortly. Sorry for the inconvenience
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
2254
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Pirate of Penzance wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district.
Already did the same with district locking- why not with clones selling. What about changing the reinforcement windows mechanics among with Auto Sale and Clone Packs? Why shouldn't CCP extend reinforcement windows from 1 to 3 hours? This way you are forced to choose the reinforcement window wisely and you cannot own too much land if you don't actually have a big amount of mercs ready to defend your districts.
-#Firmocosìperchènonhopersonalità
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3294
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Pirate of Penzance wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district. Already did the same with district locking- why not with clones selling. What about changing the reinforcement windows mechanics among with Auto Sale and Clone Packs? Why shouldn't CCP extend reinforcement windows from 1 to 3 hours? This way you are forced to choose the reinforcement window wisely and you cannot own too much land if you don't actually have a big amount of mercs ready to defend your districts.
Well, I finally landed the meeting with CCP to discuss easy PC 1.0 fixes and I'm going to bring up as much of this stuff as i can. I just have to caution that we may not be able to get any changes due the resource and time constraints right now.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1969
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Pirate of Penzance wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I think one thing that people over look when I say eliminate auto sale is that means if a district is under attack or locked no wealth can be generated from it because you can't sell off the clones. That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET. It's a good thought imo, but the real problem doesn't lie there And they would have to go through a sell off clones one by one, district by district. Already did the same with district locking- why not with clones selling. What about changing the reinforcement windows mechanics among with Auto Sale and Clone Packs? Why shouldn't CCP extend reinforcement windows from 1 to 3 hours? This way you are forced to choose the reinforcement window wisely and you cannot own too much land if you don't actually have a big amount of mercs ready to defend your districts. Well, I finally landed the meeting with CCP to discuss easy PC 1.0 fixes and I'm going to bring up as much of this stuff as i can. I just have to caution that we may not be able to get any changes due the resource and time constraints right now.
That's good news Kain. Good luck. Don't see any downside to xxwhitedevilxx's expansion of the reinforcement window as a temporary fix, especially when coupled to the proposed changes to the Genpack size.
If you can, find out how robust/flexible the current implementation of PC is: what do we have access to in a hot fix? what is easily changeable server side?
I support SP rollover.
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Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San
Dirt Nap Squad.
445
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:+1
many pc players have been asking for a clone pack increase since pc came out. 120 clones just made no sense.
your hyperlink signature isnt working o/
Me IRL :)
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3294
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote: If you can, find out how robust/flexible the current implementation of PC is: what do we have access to in a hot fix? what is easily changeable server side?
I plan on it.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
League of Infamy
731
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Posted - 2014.04.14 04:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:That still doesn't solve anything. There will still be "some" corporations that nobody would attack because of their reinforcement window that would still make huge profits. I'm still wondering why don't you at DNS set all your reinforcement windows at 12.00 ET.
Solution to timer spam:
1. Re-randomize all district timers.
2. Timers cannot be changed at a whim.
3. You can swap the timers of two districts you own.
That's it.
1 and 2 breaks gaming the timezone, but spreads the districts that each server can fight over to be relatively fair.
3 allows a corp to adjust a geographic region such that they all have similar time zones, at the expense of shuffling the other timer onto another district they've taken. And, this is reversible should that enclave be retaken by other corps.
o/
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Spartacus Dust
NECROM0NGERS
Caps and Mercs
365
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Posted - 2014.04.14 05:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
agreed!
Twitter @Matthew_Dust
Executor of Caps and Mercs Alliance.
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The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion
League of Infamy
1108
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Posted - 2014.04.14 05:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Wholeheartedly endorse this endeavour!
Once you go Black, you just never go back!
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Fire2MyBlunt
The Phoenix Federation
Caps and Mercs
184
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Posted - 2014.04.14 06:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
+1 I agree.
Proud member and Director of The Phoenix Federation
I don't go by chubby.. They call me the Hulk around here.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
12325
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Posted - 2014.04.14 08:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:
It's quite possible to win a battle on a clone pack against a tier 2 corp though.
Possible, yes - but you are at a very significant disadvantage. Feasible to wage a war with? No. The idea is to wage war with your district clones, not drop clone packs like they're the bass at a Skrillex concert. Clone packs are meant to be a bad choice, only used to get a foothold into PC territory.
Which means it simply becomes impossible to wage war against an opponent holding more land as they get to permanently lock up your districts with attacks meaning you get none off while they just keep beating you down until they take the district again.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
EUrobro
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2854
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Posted - 2014.04.14 08:16:00 -
[58] - Quote
This is a serious no brainer and no one can argue against these changes being a good idea, whatever your opinion of Kane or DNS.
I would also go further and say that if both of the above are done, clone packs could easily be made much much cheaper because locking would be of no benefit to anyone. Yes, you could still make lots of isk by going in and killing off your own self-attacking clone pack but you'd still at least have to go into the battle, meaning that having dozens of districts would become a major pain to make any isk from.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3301
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Posted - 2014.04.14 11:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:This is a serious no brainer and no one can argue against these changes being a good idea, whatever your opinion of Kane or DNS.
I would also go further and say that if both of the above are done, clone packs could easily be made much much cheaper because locking would be of no benefit to anyone. Yes, you could still make lots of isk by going in and killing off your own self-attacking clone pack but you'd still at least have to go into the battle, meaning that having dozens of districts would become a major pain to make any isk from.
They would have to implement the change where only clones killed in battle count towards the ISK total. Another question is what if the genolution sale value were reduced to 0 or 1 ISK and then the biomass price doubled? Would people fight for land that currently don't hold it?
The problem with going that route is that clone packs would still have to be set at their current per clone cost (300k) so that a self attack would not be profitable. It would also mean that the only way to get money out of PC would be through victory in battle, which may not be a bad thing.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
2228
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Posted - 2014.04.14 12:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
And you think CCP would listen this time because...? |
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