DUST Search - Dust was balanced...

Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:

Bethhy wrote:

Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:

Atiim wrote:

Right...

A Shotgun user with a Cloak can only effectively kill you if they sneak up on you (in which case he could have killed you without the cloak) , and if you let him kill you from the front your simply a scrub.

The only problems I can see with the cloak is the glitch that allows you can fire before the cloak deactivates.

Grab a Mass Driver.

That's like saying that they just added lasers to my Pac-Man game so I should grab a hammer and hit the ghosts.

No, I want my game of Pac-Man to be me eating pellets and grabbing power pellets to deal with the ghosts.

DUST was one thing. Now it is being turned into something else that does not jibe with how it has been getting developed. CCP just headed into left field. How many customers in their already shrinking player base are they going to hold on to?

The cloak is great if this game were a hide and seek style arena game. The cloak is great if it only adds a bit of an advantage on top of straight combat tactics. I remember someone who didn't want tanks to get in the way of his infantry game. Same thing. Too much of one thing changes the game (as in genre).

This is how CCP develops games.. Don't believe me? Check the history of EVE online.

Every once and a while they tip the Ant farm upside down and shake the crap out of it and let the ant's rebuild.

You may feel it goes against the CoD style yearly release of the same crap just in a different package.. But Everyone that likes Innovation over profit understands this process, as it has been going on in Video games Since the 80's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q <--- Explains why game innovation only appeals to so many players.

Oh no. Believe me. I understand how CCP develops games. I am an EVE player. However, on the other handGÇª well, THIS

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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8376	Posted - 2014.04.14 15:16:00 - [31] - Quote Skullmiser Vulcansu wrote: I've been robbed of my scrambler pistol in this update. Not really... Yeah, it fires slower, but land a headshot and it doesn't matter. It's like an Ion Pistol that only fires charged shots without the overheat and pre charge. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Shadowswipe Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 228	Posted - 2014.04.14 15:18:00 - [32] - Quote This is war. The next great weapon/armor is always dominating. Gun vs Bow is great example. Technology makes leaps, we just need to adapt and keep up.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 836	Posted - 2014.04.14 15:23:00 - [33] - Quote Well, there are an awful lot of scouts out there now. Seems like many more than before. It seems like a fairly easy class to play now. Just sayin'. Munch Minmatar Patriot (Level 7) Dedicated Sniper
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1760	Posted - 2014.04.14 15:25:00 - [34] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Atiim wrote: Right... A Shotgun user with a Cloak can only effectively kill you if they sneak up on you (in which case he could have killed you without the cloak) , and if you let him kill you from the front your simply a scrub. The only problems I can see with the cloak is the glitch that allows you can fire before the cloak deactivates. Grab a Mass Driver. That's like saying that they just added lasers to my Pac-Man game so I should grab a hammer and hit the ghosts. No, I want my game of Pac-Man to be me eating pellets and grabbing power pellets to deal with the ghosts. DUST was one thing. Now it is being turned into something else that does not jibe with how it has been getting developed. CCP just headed into left field. How many customers in their already shrinking player base are they going to hold on to? The cloak is great if this game were a hide and seek style arena game. The cloak is great if it only adds a bit of an advantage on top of straight combat tactics. I remember someone who didn't want tanks to get in the way of his infantry game. Same thing. Too much of one thing changes the game (as in genre). This is how CCP develops games.. Don't believe me? Check the history of EVE online. Every once and a while they tip the Ant farm upside down and shake the crap out of it and let the ant's rebuild. You may feel it goes against the CoD style yearly release of the same crap just in a different package.. But Everyone that likes Innovation over profit understands this process, as it has been going on in Video games Since the 80's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q <--- Explains why game innovation only appeals to so many players.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 766	Posted - 2014.04.14 15:58:00 - [35] - Quote It the scanning mechanics. I don't directly have a problem with the cloak, but the 25% to scan profile muddies the waters. Here is the issue. Before 1.8 everyone was crying and moaning and picking sand grains out of their collective vginas about 4 simple words- You have been scanned. More for the fact that the words kept popping up on the screen than they had actually been scanned. Now all these fucking fotm chasing morons all say "oh, if you are having trouble picking up scouts than equip the proper mods. Its called e-war!" Well guess what, that was an option for scouts (and everyone else) before 1.8, but no, nobody wanted to do it. A quick side note, scouts just before 1.8 were unstoppable in the right hands. The smart ones actually used ewar and were invisible to scans (sight invisibility is meh, scan invisibility is king). They were getting it done and weren't asking for and didn't need a buff. Anyway, heres what I see is the problem- Pre 1.8- Base stats and unmodded suits favored the scanners, both passive and active, and ewar applied more so to getting under scans, as I feel it should. Post 1.8- Base stats and unmodded suits favor avoiding scans both passive and active, and ewar now applies more so to trying to get scans low enough to pick up people. In a world where mechanics start off by favoring the scanner, medium suits focus on hp since they will be seen and will have to fight (ignoring the slayer logi for the moment), and light suits will equip ewar since they won't want to be seen (this is how it should be. Its a f*cking scout suit. Scout. SCOUT), and straight hp won't help them against mediums. In the world we have now, where mechanics start by favoring those getting under scans, you are forcing medium suits to give up multiple slots just to pull even with an un modded scout suit. Mediums have to equip scan enhancers and such just to function on a basic level, while light suits need to equip nothing to be even with medium suits. Here is my issue. Everyone (fake 1.8 scouts) say "use ewar noob". Well guess what, medium suits aren't generally suppose to be ewar suits. I'm not saying a medium should never have to use ewar mods, not at all. I'm saying from an un modded base, the scoit should have to equip a mod or 2 to get a leg up, as opposed to mediums having to equip mods to pull close to even. Theres all this talk about how to make the assault suits viable again with new bonuses. Well when an assault suit has to deck itself out in ewar mods, it is giving up everthing that makes it an assault suit to achieve basic functionality. I'm not saying scouts shouldn't get under scans. I agree that the end game should result in a scout being able to get under any scans, but they need to give up almost everything to do so. Its a scout. SCOUT. More scout related equipment would help I think, but something needs to change. When 70-80% of people in a match are runnig scout suits, and those scout suits are the best choice for the assault style of gameplay, something is majorly broken. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 334	Posted - 2014.04.14 16:08:00 - [36] - Quote RINON114 wrote: But now it's not, clearly the cloaked scout + shotgun is dominating the field and Dust is a horrific game to play for those that aren't specced right. Thanks for the first week of 1.8 though, it was truly special. dust was never suppose to be balanced. if it was then the dropsuit and gun you have now would be viable in every patch that comes out hence you not needing to spend AUR on boosters and new OP dropsuits and guns. while its not fun for us players for the game to be out of balance it is a good business model for CCP to get people to feel the need to spend money to be competitive. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 912	Posted - 2014.04.14 16:19:00 - [37] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Wow, I didn't realise what a negative reaction this would get. All I seem to ever see is proto gallente/caldari scout with proto/advanced shotguns. I love this idea that you are supposed to see a scout coming, I get that. However, seeing four or five at the same time is not only a ludicrous suggestion, but putting them down is impossible. Scout + Cloak = Great! Scout + Shotgun = Great! Shotgun + Cloak = Great! Scout + Cloak + Shotgun = Overpowered. It is the combination of all three items and the fact that more players than ever are running scout that makes the playstyle ridiculously OP. The scout's speed just adds to how easy it is to get in close and not suffer the poor playstyle that the cloak is offering. It's just like when the TAR was amazing, everybody picked up on it and that's pretty much all you ever saw because it's downright better than everything else. I play on european servers so if you're thinking GÇ£nah that never happensGÇ¥ then sorry but it does over here. Maybe the cloak should operate with a long fire delay so it's used more for espionage and sabotage than as an assault suit. In all honesty I don't see just SG's in the Killfeed, the average killfeed stillgets dominated by rifles. But as others already have said now you see at least other weapons in the killfeed not as many as rifles but way more than before 1.8. And the same is true for suits. Are there more scouts? Sure. Is scout the oly suit I see? Nope. I still see way more heavies and even assaults...
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 591	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:22:00 - [38] - Quote Just to clarify for those that can't read: This thread is about how balanced Dust felt in the first week of 1.8. Since then it has devolved into nothing but invisible scouts and shotguns. My main point is this: Scout + Cloak + Shotgun = OP as **. Telling me to chase the FoTM is ***** dumb whoever that was. I am a heavy, and my niche is such that I am slow and not very good at detecting stuff which is why the scout is such a good counter to the heavy. Don't be all telling me that I should keep my eyes open and to GÇ£get goodGÇ¥ because with the combo above, I literally can't do anything to more than one scout at a time. And just to be clear, I keep my head on a swivel and watch my flanks but like the last sentence says, I can't watch my back and flanks six times at once. Before cloaks, scouts had to be smart and pick their moments. Now they do not. Cloaks need to be an espionage based tool, not an assault one.
TunRa Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 548	Posted - 2014.04.14 23:06:00 - [39] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Just to clarify for those that can't read: This thread is about how balanced Dust felt in the first week of 1.8. Since then it has devolved into nothing but invisible scouts and shotguns. My main point is this: Scout + Cloak + Shotgun = OP as **. Telling me to chase the FoTM is ***** dumb whoever that was. I am a heavy, and my niche is such that I am slow and not very good at detecting stuff which is why the scout is such a good counter to the heavy. Don't be all telling me that I should keep my eyes open and to GÇ£get goodGÇ¥ because with the combo above, I literally can't do anything to more than one scout at a time. And just to be clear, I keep my head on a swivel and watch my flanks but like the last sentence says, I can't watch my back and flanks six times at once. Before cloaks, scouts had to be smart and pick their moments. Now they do not. Cloaks need to be an espionage based tool, not an assault one. Really? As a heavy myself I barley die by scouts, because I'm smart and stick with a squad and or blue dot packs. Guess what buddy cloaked scouts are people who will always choose the lone target when confronted with a large group. Thanks CCP Foxfour Likes received: 514
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 265	Posted - 2014.04.14 23:08:00 - [40] - Quote RINON114 wrote: But now it's not, clearly the cloaked scout + shotgun is dominating the field and Dust is a horrific game to play for those that aren't specced right. Thanks for the first week of 1.8 though, it was truly special. We are bathing in your tears, cry on QQer.

Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1867	Posted - 2014.04.15 01:47:00 - [41] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Atiim wrote: Right... A Shotgun user with a Cloak can only effectively kill you if they sneak up on you (in which case he could have killed you without the cloak) , and if you let him kill you from the front your simply a scrub. The only problems I can see with the cloak is the glitch that allows you can fire before the cloak deactivates. Grab a Mass Driver. That's like saying that they just added lasers to my Pac-Man game so I should grab a hammer and hit the ghosts. No, I want my game of Pac-Man to be me eating pellets and grabbing power pellets to deal with the ghosts. DUST was one thing. Now it is being turned into something else that does not jibe with how it has been getting developed. CCP just headed into left field. How many customers in their already shrinking player base are they going to hold on to? The cloak is great if this game were a hide and seek style arena game. The cloak is great if it only adds a bit of an advantage on top of straight combat tactics. I remember someone who didn't want tanks to get in the way of his infantry game. Same thing. Too much of one thing changes the game (as in genre). This is how CCP develops games.. Don't believe me? Check the history of EVE online. Every once and a while they tip the Ant farm upside down and shake the crap out of it and let the ant's rebuild. You may feel it goes against the CoD style yearly release of the same crap just in a different package.. But Everyone that likes Innovation over profit understands this process, as it has been going on in Video games Since the 80's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q <--- Explains why game innovation only appeals to so many players. Oh no. Believe me. I understand how CCP develops games. I am an EVE player. However, on the other handGÇª well, THIS Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 5079	Posted - 2014.04.15 01:50:00 - [42] - Quote RINON114 wrote: But now it's not, clearly the cloaked scout + shotgun is dominating the field and Dust is a horrific game to play for those that aren't specced right. Thanks for the first week of 1.8 though, it was truly special. I actually die 85% of the times to heavies. Rarely get killed by Shotgunners unless they are like, REAL good. So you post is based on opinion , not fact. Nice try , but no. 1.8 is as balanced as dust has been for MONTHS. Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 838	Posted - 2014.04.15 02:50:00 - [43] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: I'm not saying scouts shouldn't get under scans. I agree that the end game should result in a scout being able to get under any scans, but they need to give up almost everything to do so. Its a scout. SCOUT. More scout related equipment would help I think, but something needs to change. When 70-80% of people in a match are runnig scout suits, and those scout suits are the best choice for the assault style of gameplay, something is majorly broken. Word. Munch Minmatar Patriot (Level 7) Dedicated Sniper
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1786	Posted - 2014.04.15 13:11:00 - [44] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Bethhy wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Atiim wrote: Right... A Shotgun user with a Cloak can only effectively kill you if they sneak up on you (in which case he could have killed you without the cloak) , and if you let him kill you from the front your simply a scrub. The only problems I can see with the cloak is the glitch that allows you can fire before the cloak deactivates. Grab a Mass Driver. That's like saying that they just added lasers to my Pac-Man game so I should grab a hammer and hit the ghosts. No, I want my game of Pac-Man to be me eating pellets and grabbing power pellets to deal with the ghosts. DUST was one thing. Now it is being turned into something else that does not jibe with how it has been getting developed. CCP just headed into left field. How many customers in their already shrinking player base are they going to hold on to? The cloak is great if this game were a hide and seek style arena game. The cloak is great if it only adds a bit of an advantage on top of straight combat tactics. I remember someone who didn't want tanks to get in the way of his infantry game. Same thing. Too much of one thing changes the game (as in genre). This is how CCP develops games.. Don't believe me? Check the history of EVE online. Every once and a while they tip the Ant farm upside down and shake the crap out of it and let the ant's rebuild. You may feel it goes against the CoD style yearly release of the same crap just in a different package.. But Everyone that likes Innovation over profit understands this process, as it has been going on in Video games Since the 80's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q <--- Explains why game innovation only appeals to so many players. Oh no. Believe me. I understand how CCP develops games. I am an EVE player. However, on the other handGÇª well, THIS Wow....
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1453	Posted - 2014.04.15 13:17:00 - [45] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Well, there are an awful lot of scouts out there now. Seems like many more than before. It seems like a fairly easy class to play now. Just sayin'. Munch Say that to scouts who get mowed down on a regular basis for the following reasons: - Brick tanking a scout - Not using proper tactics - Trying to run a ****** scout suit with terrible setups. We hunt scouts all day and make them rage quit
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1453	Posted - 2014.04.15 13:19:00 - [46] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Wow, I didn't realise what a negative reaction this would get. All I seem to ever see is proto gallente/caldari scout with proto/advanced shotguns. I love this idea that you are supposed to see a scout coming, I get that. However, seeing four or five at the same time is not only a ludicrous suggestion, but putting them down is impossible. Scout + Cloak = Great! Scout + Shotgun = Great! Shotgun + Cloak = Great! Scout + Cloak + Shotgun = Overpowered. It is the combination of all three items and the fact that more players than ever are running scout that makes the playstyle ridiculously OP. The scout's speed just adds to how easy it is to get in close and not suffer the poor playstyle that the cloak is offering. It's just like when the TAR was amazing, everybody picked up on it and that's pretty much all you ever saw because it's downright better than everything else. I play on european servers so if you're thinking GÇ£nah that never happensGÇ¥ then sorry but it does over here. Maybe the cloak should operate with a long fire delay so it's used more for espionage and sabotage than as an assault suit. Man i'm so close to calling you a Scrub... So much of whining from your posts. Set up your suits properly and don't get flanked... Stop calling things OP before you use them If you think Cloak is OP, Scout is OP, SG is OP then spec into them and see how well you do...
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 874	Posted - 2014.04.15 14:39:00 - [47] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Wow, I didn't realise what a negative reaction this would get. All I seem to ever see is proto gallente/caldari scout with proto/advanced shotguns. I love this idea that you are supposed to see a scout coming, I get that. However, seeing four or five at the same time is not only a ludicrous suggestion, but putting them down is impossible. Scout + Cloak = Great! Scout + Shotgun = Great! Shotgun + Cloak = Great! Scout + Cloak + Shotgun = Overpowered. It is the combination of all three items and the fact that more players than ever are running scout that makes the playstyle ridiculously OP. The scout's speed just adds to how easy it is to get in close and not suffer the poor playstyle that the cloak is offering. It's just like when the TAR was amazing, everybody picked up on it and that's pretty much all you ever saw because it's downright better than everything else. I play on european servers so if you're thinking GÇ£nah that never happensGÇ¥ then sorry but it does over here. Maybe the cloak should operate with a long fire delay so it's used more for espionage and sabotage than as an assault suit. Scout+cloak+any weapon= Way too much power. Why? Because the cloak needs tweaks, most notably a delay from decloaking and firing. You can't tell me you are less effective with a CR or a PlC as a cloaked scout. You'll mow down everyone with a CR from absolutely huge range. With the PlC you'll one shot everyone but heavies. These young scouts need to broaden their horizons.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 274	Posted - 2014.04.15 15:33:00 - [48] - Quote People are actually calling the cloak overpowered? The only good thing about the cloak is the profile reduction. I don't use the thing because I don't have millions of skill points due to constantly missing SP events. But I played the entire last week. Most cloakers are seen and killed by me, often caught off-guard because those dumbasses think themselves invisible. The few times a cloaker kills me, it's either because I saw them from the corner of my eye and then engaged my pre-1.8 "It's nothing" instinct or because the horribly low FoV made them invisible to me. The latter happens with ANY class. Without profile reduction, there would be no ***** point in this crappy pre-nerfed thing. And it's only really useful against Logis and other scouts, because all the other classes already suck at detecting them. In fact, a Commando might profit the most from that 25% profile reduction. Which detection thresholds does it pass when it engages a cloak? IMO, the biggest issue is that we are very** reliant on passive scanning, because the FoV in this game is so hilariously low. A higher FoV would nerf scouts in a way that doesn't make them underpowered again. It would also buff the visual aspect of the cloak, due to more visual information being crammed into the same screen. It would also require me to sit closer to the TV.


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