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LT Shanx
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
46
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
They really don't.
I play a Galscout and having 6 module slots seems a bit too much. With 5 Slots, I'll still be able to equip 2 complex precision enhancers, 1 complex range amplifier, 1 complex profile dampener, and a complex KinCat. Any extra modules are really not necessary.
The same applies to the extra equipment slot. If I want to use a cloak, then I should be able to equip only that. However, if I feel I can do my duty as a Scout and be just as effective without a cloak, then perhaps REs would be more beneficial to me. Being able to cloak and use other equipment seems a bit greedy, especially when the game already has a class dedicated to equipment use.
From what I have seen, the addition of these slots has encouraged many players to opt for brick tanked builds as it is now easier to obtain 700+ eHP on a Scout suit. They indeed have become the more effective Assaults, now with the added bonuses of higher speed, more CPU/PG, lower profiles, smaller hit boxes, better suit passives, two equipment slots that allow them to cloak and self-rep through hives, etc.
Alone, brick tanked Scouts are easy enough targets for any eWar built Scout to handle. However, 6 of them with cloaks and proper comms have the ability to zerg rush an entire team and keep their opposition at bay.
Remove their extra module slot and their HP will drop by 100 or so. Remove their second equipment slot so that Logis become more relevant in matches. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
105
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
You're a Scout?
Bang?
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Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
381
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Teamwork is overpowered, so please nerf scouts. |
DozersMouse XIII
Ultramarine Corp
385
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
1.8 scout?
Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes
Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake
Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
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Asha Starwind
783
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
That's just the Gal scout, and maybe by extension the Amarr scout. The Cal really does need all it's slots. Can't say anything about the Min scout.
Mad Bomber - 50% less profile
Return dumbfire to Swarms
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DISGRUNTLEDev
354
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't use the slots for HP. Why are you telling me what I have to fit in an MMO? I don't tell Commandos that they don't need equipment slots because they're just supposed to kill people. I don't understand the people on here who tell me the health of my suit or what it has equipped. I thought the whole point of this game was choice? Why do the forums keep trying to forse scouts, or an suit, to be any one thing?
Also. Any squad with good teamwork and comms will crush randoms. It doesn't matter what they are wearing. |
DozersMouse XIII
Ultramarine Corp
386
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
if this is the case
why should any other suit in the game be able to tank?
scouts fought tooth and nail to get where we are in 1.8 (yes there are some problems)
IMO scouts and heavy's are where they need to be with a few minor fixes
assaults and logistics are in need of major fixes
p.s. I run two damps on my suit
Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes
Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake
Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2237
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree with the equipment thing.
Also, if it goes away, some CPU and PG should go as well. |
KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
5005
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
LT Shanx wrote:They really don't.
I play a Galscout and having 6 module slots seems a bit too much. With 5 Slots, I'll still be able to equip 2 complex precision enhancers, 1 complex range amplifier, 1 complex profile dampener, and a complex KinCat. Any extra modules are really not necessary.
The same applies to the extra equipment slot. If I want to use a cloak, then I should be able to equip only that. However, if I feel I can do my duty as a Scout and be just as effective without a cloak, then perhaps REs would be more beneficial to me. Being able to cloak and use other equipment seems a bit greedy, especially when the game already has a class dedicated to equipment use.
From what I have seen, the addition of these slots has encouraged many players to opt for brick tanked builds as it is now easier to obtain 700+ eHP on a Scout suit. They indeed have become the more effective Assaults, now with the added bonuses of higher speed, more CPU/PG, lower profiles, smaller hit boxes, better suit passives, two equipment slots that allow them to cloak and self-rep through hives, etc.
Alone, brick tanked Scouts are easy enough targets for any eWar built Scout to handle. However, 6 of them with cloaks and proper comms have the ability to zerg rush an entire team and keep their opposition at bay.
Remove their extra module slot and their HP will drop by 100 or so. Remove their second equipment slot so that Logis become more relevant in matches.
LOL.
Well they are not going to REMOVE a slot just because you fell you dont need it.
I do. I need cloak and Needle.or Nanohives, or remote explosives...OR uplinks....
In fact, i run PROTO scout most of the time now because i NEED the extra slots for E-war modules.
Yeah maybe one can play with 3 low slots, if you are a cloaked SHOT GUNNER. But thas it.
I need the slots so i can equip my Damage mod, precision enhancer, my profile dampener, my kinetic Cat, my range amplifier and MAYBe, some HP....
You dont like it, just leave those slots unused, but dont come trying to nerf something we scouts have been waiting for ages.
Byes ,troll...
Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
535
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm not a scout but I have skills in scout related attributes , anyway the only thing that I can agree with out of what was written was the taking away of the equipment slot .
Reason being , the talk is all about the imbalance of scouts and their role on the battlefield .
Fair enough but I see most of the comments coming from players who were not really scouts ( from their comments and the reaction from the scout community ) so it's nice to be observant and all but .. we have to be sensitive to the fact that this is someone's role , the data that was gathered was done so after major changes were made and the fact that the information that has been gathered , was not done so after a time that one couldn't adopt some since of bias from a rush in judgment in nature .
It has not been gathered after a period of time where a drop off in any of the highlighted area's that many point out .
There are bugs that need to be addressed and suits that need balancing and I wonder if some of the bonuses are actually functional after it was brought to the attention of the DEV's . There is a whole lot of activity that is going on at this time and a lot of issues that need to be addressed compounded on what was already present .
Let's begin to come up with reasonable solutions because we all know that it won't even come into effect until later ( look at the bugs and issue's from 1.8 and how they are being addressed alone .) anyway so we have a lot of time on our hands .
The DEV's are busy and trying to clean up the mess and even spending more time talking , so things are getting attention but it's going to be a slow process .
Reason being for my agreement is , this will define the differences in scouts and how their play type . Either you cloak or you don't . Adjust the CPU / PG to reflect the difference or do what some have asked and that's , reduce the bonus for the cloak so that would give the scouts greater choice's . Now you can't stack all that armor and shield with prototype weapons , with speed and stealth also a cloak at the same time .
That could be the possible issue being that , now they have a lot of overwhelming challenges to present to their enemies all at one moment and with the strength of a " TRUE " assault .
Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
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Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
RISE of LEGION
853
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP ****** up when they made new scouts, they act more like commandos than the actual Commando class 
Nemo me impune lacessit
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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
614
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you were a real scout and played scout before 1.8 an spent a yr begging for a buff this post wouldn't exist!
Plus your only thinking of gallente, min without six slots is brutal plus that sixth slot is usually for a pg mod cuz the fittings blow, amar would lose so much because it has no real scout bonuses, and the cal would be brutal if it lost a slot, basically it would be 2/1 at basic 2/2 at adv and 3/2 at proto!
You didn't think this through did you?
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2481
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
I see nothing wrong with the module layouts or even 2 equipment slots, the cloak is meant to be compulsory for scouts to make up for the short-comings of incredibly low EHP amd limited combat potential.
Iwould rather CCP take away the Scouts ability to brick tank to such high levels, the ability to quick-swap to a weapon and shoot under the effects of cloak, the ability to have both that and better dampening, better speed, better passives, better range and still fit weapons just as powerful as assaults.
Scouts need to be nerfed in such a way that you can't have it all, that you have to choose between flimsy scout with a cloak who see all, or fast brawler who's only advamtage over mediums is a little extra speed.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Dunk Mujunk
RestlessSpirits
760
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Medium suits are dead and might as well be removed from the game. Thanks to 1.8 a large portion of the community now thinks a scout suit should at the very least be on par with an assault suit.
It is a scout suit. A SCOUT suit.
SCOUT.
Go ahead and search your memory banks for anything you relate to the term scout. Scout. SCOUT.
Oh, hey there Dust 514 player. I have a question. What do you think a scout should be able to do? Oh whats that? It should be able to stack medium suit hp amounts? It should be able to carry a light and side arm weapon? It needs the smallest hitbox and the higest speed? It also needs to have e-war dominance un modded and the slots and cpu/pg to e-war and tank? And a second equipment slot so you don't need to worry about having a logi as much?
Yeah thats balanced. The scout can't carry a heavy weapon, and it can't shoot railgun blasts out of its assh*le so its balanced. Says all the people running scout.
Just give heavies 1 more equipment slot, give scouts 1 more equipment slot, re classify the commando as a meduim suit, and remove the assault and logi suit from the game. At this point you might as well.
Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood.
Futurama
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
188
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
Asha Starwind wrote:That's just the Gal scout, and maybe by extension the Amarr scout. The Cal really does need all it's slots. Can't say anything about the Min scout.
This is because almost all EWAR mods and all speed mods fit in low slots (damps, amps, codebreakers, KCs, CRs) while only one EWAR module (precision enhancers) fits in high slots. However, I do think the Gal scout needs all its slots to run like the radar ghost it's meant to be.
DISGRUNTLEDev wrote:I don't use the slots for HP. Why are you telling me what I have to fit in an MMO? I don't tell Commandos that they don't need equipment slots because they're just supposed to kill people. I don't understand the people on here who tell me the health of my suit or what it has equipped. I thought the whole point of this game was choice? Why do the forums keep trying to force scouts, or any suit, to be any one thing?
Also. Any squad with good teamwork and comms will crush randoms. It doesn't matter what they are wearing.
I completely agree with you about choice and teamwork, but it's worth acknowledging that each suit type was designed with a primary play style in mind (read the in-game item descriptions). The issue isn't that anyone can fit HP mods to scout suits and tank them effectively; the issue is that doing so on a scout is at least as viable (and in many cases, more) as doing the same with an assault.
Most of my thoughts on how to improve assaults vs. scouts can be found here. That post doesn't include another assault fix I'd like to see, which is to change the basic-to-proto module slots from 4-5-7 to 5-6-7.
The fact is, if the suits weren't meant to fulfill different roles, we wouldn't have different suits. I certainly don't think changing slot layout on scout suits is a solution--swapping their regen/delays with the assaults' and giving assaults an extra slot at basic and advanced levels would probably mostly do the trick (or at least be a good start).
My other dropsuit is a Python.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
535
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
CRNWLLC wrote:
The fact is, if the suits weren't meant to fulfill different roles, we wouldn't have different suits. I certainly don't think changing slot layout on scout suits is a solution--swapping their regen/delays with the assaults' and giving assaults an extra slot at basic and advanced levels would probably mostly do the trick (or at least be a good start).
This , what Monkey Mac and Dunk Mujunk ( that name .. classic . ) said is a great place to start and has truth to words spoken .
More posts like those would work over the loose this or nerf that type's of material that are going around in posts .
Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
895
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dunk Mujunk wrote:Medium suits are dead and might as well be removed from the game. Thanks to 1.8 a large portion of the community now thinks a scout suit should at the very least be on par with an assault suit.
It is a scout suit. A SCOUT suit.
SCOUT.
Go ahead and search your memory banks for anything you relate to the term scout. Scout. SCOUT.
Oh, hey there Dust 514 player. I have a question. What do you think a scout should be able to do? Oh whats that? It should be able to stack medium suit hp amounts? It should be able to carry a light and side arm weapon? It needs the smallest hitbox and the higest speed? It also needs to have e-war dominance un modded and the slots and cpu/pg to e-war and tank? And a second equipment slot so you don't need to worry about having a logi as much?
Yeah thats balanced. The scout can't carry a heavy weapon, and it can't shoot railgun blasts out of its assh*le so its balanced. Says all the people running scout.
Just give heavies 1 more equipment slot, give scouts 1 more equipment slot, re classify the commando as a meduim suit, and remove the assault and logi suit from the game. At this point you might as well.
Medium suits are going to get attention, they didn't have a chance to redo them for 1.8. So they are left behind at the moment.
1.8 because nothing says fun like getting shotgunned in the back.
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
7895
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
And just when us dedicated scouts have finally gotten the suit to where it needs to be, people like this guy come out of the wood works and want to take it away from us.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Dunk Mujunk
RestlessSpirits
761
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
The scout suit pre 1.8 was beastly in the right hands (not mine, I was on the receiving end lol). The only thing I feel 1.8 did for the suit itself is make it more accessable to the masses, and extend the envelope of jobs a scout is best at.
Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood.
Futurama
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Black SlaverX
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
140
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:And just when us dedicated scouts have finally gotten the suit to where it needs to be, people like this guy come out of the wood works and want to take it away from us.
So you needed the suit to be ridiculously OP?
Ok tanker.
Watch your back because I might be there.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
7896
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Black SlaverX wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:And just when us dedicated scouts have finally gotten the suit to where it needs to be, people like this guy come out of the wood works and want to take it away from us. So you needed the suit to be ridiculously OP? Ok tanker.
You must be new here. Let me enlighten you on how a true scout fits his suit. DITCH. THE. TANK.
Seriously, the only tank I ever put on my scout suit (or any for that matter) is one shield extender. The rest is a mixed back of Kin Cats, Cardiacs, Profile Dampeners, and Range Amplifiers. No armor mods. and the rest are just mostly damage mods on the highs. I have adapted to fight without the tank anyways and the tank only slows you down and makes you vulnerable to scans and stun locking. So don't throw me into that sorry excuse for a scout camp that you call tankers.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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DISGRUNTLEDev
361
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
You think scouts are as OP as anything else we've seen? How long have you been here?
For the record, take the cloak. I didn't want it in the first place for the exact reasons everyone is QQing about. Scouts are every where, scouts don't suck for once, more than ~200 people are playing them. Because the cloak was perceived as being OP, everyone skilled into, it's now in the killfeed more, thus scouts are OP. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
632
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:I see nothing wrong with the module layouts or even 2 equipment slots, the cloak is meant to be compulsory for scouts to make up for the short-comings of incredibly low EHP amd limited combat potential.
Iwould rather CCP take away the Scouts ability to brick tank to such high levels, the ability to quick-swap to a weapon and shoot under the effects of cloak, the ability to have both that and better dampening, better speed, better passives, better range and still fit weapons just as powerful as assaults.
Scouts need to be nerfed in such a way that you can't have it all, that you have to choose between flimsy scout with a cloak who see all, or fast brawler who's only advamtage over mediums is a little extra speed.
That sounds a lot like saying that Assaults should be able to speed tank, brick tank, and have better weapons than scouts. However, I agree that medium frames should, if they choose, be able to brick tank to a greater degree than scouts but the sacrifice should be similar to scouts i.e. that medium frames can not have it all either i.e. that neither Assualts nor Logi's can fit almost all proto either e.g. high HP but weaker weapons on an Assault or lower HP but better weapons.
I do agree that scouts should not be shooting while still under the cloak. Once you have swapped to your weapon you should become instantly visible but there should be no delay in being able to fire your weapon. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
2986
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Posted - 2014.04.11 22:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Anybody who wasn't a scout pre 1.7 probably agrees with you.
Why?
Because they most likely run 3-4 plates and 1-2 dmg mods.
Everyone else?
Ran or runs 1-2 kincats, cardio mod, damp, 1-2 precision mod, extenders(hate thoses things) and a range amp/hacking mod.
That's how we run our scouts, please stop trying to get our suits nerfed and go back to Logi with plates and dmg mods.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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LT Shanx
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
52
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Posted - 2014.04.11 23:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
DISGRUNTLEDev wrote:I don't use the slots for HP. Why are you telling me what I have to fit in an MMO? I don't tell Commandos that they don't need equipment slots because they're just supposed to kill people. I don't understand the people on here who tell me the health of my suit or what it has equipped. I thought the whole point of this game was choice? Why do the forums keep trying to force scouts, or any suit, to be any one thing?
Also. Any squad with good teamwork and comms will crush randoms. It doesn't matter what they are wearing.
What did I tell you to fit? I never suggested any fits or asked that fits be changed. You're free to choose all you want.
However, if you didn't understand the OP, let me reiterate.
LT Shanx says: Scouts really don't need an extra equipment or module slot. They can be fine eWar Scouts without them, and brick-tanked Scouts will still be effective even if they were to lose 100 eHP. Oh, and Logis would have more of a role if Scouts didn't have the extra equipment, but they'd still be effective with cloaks or another equipment of choice.
Everyone says: Shut up you scrub 1.8 Scout. I want my scout to do everything because I fought long and hard for these changes! |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
1651
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Posted - 2014.04.11 23:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
A lot of scouts (me included) feet that the 2nd EQ slot was necessary if cloaking was the be an equipment based module.
This allows us the ability to use the classes defining feature (cloak) and still maintain a viable role on the battlefield, such as rapidly deploying uplinks behind enemy lines, sabotaging an enemy objective (REs) or resupplying in the field as many of us don't run with squads.
I don't recall scouts asking for additional module slots (additional CPU/PG, yes) so this at least caught me by surprise when CCP was rolling out 1.8 stats.
Bottom line from my perspective, I can live without an extra module slot. I can live without the cloak.
But I can't live with having a cloak and only 1 EQ slot. Doing that would only make the "slayer scouts" way more prevalent, IMO and greatly impact my playstyle; which I've honed as a SCOUT for the past 15 months.
Oh, and CCP really needs to fix the swap to a weapon and fire while cloaked feature.
Double posting like a Kaiser.
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Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
479
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Posted - 2014.04.12 00:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:
I need the slots so i can equip my Damage mod, precision enhancer, my profile dampener, my kinetic Cat, my range amplifier and MAYBe, some HP....
Sounds like a fitting smorgasbord, doesn't sound like you're having to make many fitting choices like the rest of us mortals. |
DISGRUNTLEDev
365
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Posted - 2014.04.12 00:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
LT Shanx wrote:
What did I tell you to fit? I never suggested any fits or asked that fits be changed. You're free to choose all you want.
However, if you didn't understand the OP, let me reiterate.
LT Shanx says: Scouts really don't need an extra equipment or module slot. They can be fine eWar Scouts without them, and brick-tanked Scouts will still be effective even if they were to lose 100 eHP. Oh, and Logis would have more of a role if Scouts didn't have the extra equipment, but they'd still be effective with cloaks or another equipment of choice.
Everyone says: Shut up you scrub 1.8 Scout. I want my scout to do everything because I fought long and hard for these changes!
I believe the part where you said I don't need an extra equipment slot? Or was it module slot? I use every slot on my suits every time. If I want to bring Uplinks and REs on my run to the city at the beginning of the game, why are you telling me I don't need it?
Maybe you should just STFU about what all suits and players should generally have or what they need. Do you run my exact play style? Do you play a scout suit like Shotty, or Marauder, or AO+CJ? King Checkmate? Lightning, noob, Biscuit, or Frost Kitty?
You don't? You have your own play style unique to you? Get Fvcked, sit down, shut the he!! up. |
DozersMouse XIII
Ultramarine Corp
395
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Posted - 2014.04.12 00:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
LT Shanx wrote:DISGRUNTLEDev wrote:I don't use the slots for HP. Why are you telling me what I have to fit in an MMO? I don't tell Commandos that they don't need equipment slots because they're just supposed to kill people. I don't understand the people on here who tell me the health of my suit or what it has equipped. I thought the whole point of this game was choice? Why do the forums keep trying to force scouts, or any suit, to be any one thing?
Also. Any squad with good teamwork and comms will crush randoms. It doesn't matter what they are wearing. What did I tell you to fit? I never suggested any fits or asked that fits be changed. You're free to choose all you want. However, if you didn't understand the OP, let me reiterate. LT Shanx says: Scouts really don't need an extra equipment or module slot. They can be fine eWar Scouts without them, and brick-tanked Scouts will still be effective even if they were to lose 100 eHP. Oh, and Logis would have more of a role if Scouts didn't have the extra equipment, but they'd still be effective with cloaks or another equipment of choice. Everyone says: Shut up you scrub 1.8 Scout. I want my scout to do everything because I fought long and hard for these changes!
what happens to the standard scout if these changes were applied?
what happens to low level scouts if these changes are applied?
Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes
Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake
Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
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Tectonic Fusion
1455
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Posted - 2014.04.12 00:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:I see nothing wrong with the module layouts or even 2 equipment slots, the cloak is meant to be compulsory for scouts to make up for the short-comings of incredibly low EHP amd limited combat potential.
Iwould rather CCP take away the Scouts ability to brick tank to such high levels, the ability to quick-swap to a weapon and shoot under the effects of cloak, the ability to have both that and better dampening, better speed, better passives, better range and still fit weapons just as powerful as assaults.
Scouts need to be nerfed in such a way that you can't have it all, that you have to choose between flimsy scout with a cloak who see all, or fast brawler who's only advamtage over mediums is a little extra speed.
Dude...brick tanking scout > EWAR scout. You can flank the brick tanked scout and he will die relly fast even with the brick tank due to him being in a scout suit...
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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