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Corporal Axton Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.04.10 15:05:00 - [1] - Quote I'm full time logi part time tanker. I've noticed on the field somebody will be running a "slayer logi". I personally have an issue with this. I haven't noticed CCP saying about what will happen to logis. I think that Logistics suits shouldn't be able to deal no more than 50% of the damage the weapon the player holds. Logistics need to rely on teammates and reward teammates by reps, nano hives, injectors, etc.. With this significant damage decrease, there needs to be a way that us logis can still live. 50% resistance to all weapons shot at us, we won't be killing efficiently and will be able to support our team without being one shotted by a shotgun or dropped by a scrambler pistol as if I wasn't there to begin with. I'd prefer logis to read this and reply. Assualts don't understand the difficult job as a logi really is.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 263	Posted - 2014.04.10 16:47:00 - [2] - Quote I'm trying to wrap my head around this idea. It is appealing, but I just can't agree that a weapon should deal less damage than what is advetised. I was never a fan of the side arm only, but I think damage resistance trade off for it could work better. Also, 50% does seem high, but I would like to be able to live through more than a single SCR charge shot on my expensive suits. Since 1.8, I have not fitted aa super tanked out suit. I rather run diverse fits, but it is to damn expensive to be OHK. The other issue I have, this means I could never run without a squad. Before I get flammed that this is a team game (yet everyone turns a blind eye to scout cod style fanboys), with the current small player base there is not always enough players on to squad up with. Don't get me wrong, even when I solo, I go and support blues and follow them around in my logi suit. This however leads me to believe ambush would be off limits to solo play. Sage /thread
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 129	Posted - 2014.04.10 18:35:00 - [3] - Quote I under stand your concept, unfortunately it is a nerf, if the fitting gives the slayer an advantage then they are going to use it.With 1.8 many slayers have branched out to different suits and the number of slayers (support) has decreased.It is difficult already for a support logi to stay alive under many circumstances(alone,in groups first one dropped, favorite for cloaked scouts) and a 50% reduction will make us even more of a target, there are a lot more obvious issues with other fittings that can be discussed . CCP has already gutted our fitting please let those of us who still run support try to adapt to this latest whack before starting another logi witch hunt.I'm getting to old to run from the villagers with pitch forks and torches.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 530	Posted - 2014.04.10 18:46:00 - [4] - Quote Please don't make a thread about possible changes for tanks . Playing a role and then asking for that role to be changed for the worst is ( no offense to you OP ) just plain stupid . It's not a problem with all the scouts running around and the changes turned me off from reinvesting into the role after 1.8 . They are one of the prime targets of this game and to make them just a walking storage depot with no way to counter attack is just not wise . I have seen multiple logi posts asking for their roles to be lessened today and just find this as being another case of the community being distracted and focusing on the unimportant while slighting what is important . Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 837	Posted - 2014.04.10 18:54:00 - [5] - Quote Logis are in a poor state due to the generally poor state of medium suits currently combined with the fact that medium suits did not get their slots rebalanced with the other suits in 1.8. This has caused many things to go out of whack. As far as the "slayer logi" problem, a relatively easy fix would be to nerf the base damages of all light weapons by, say, ~20-25%. So, Scouts, Sentinels, Logis, etc. would be doing 25% less damage. Now, for Assault suits, give them a +25% role bonus to weapon damage so they do comparatively higher damage (about what it is currently). Commando suits would receive the same +25% (plus their +10% bonus on their suits currently). This solves the problem of "light assault scouts" and "slayer Sentinel suits" with light weapons. Heavy suits would have no damage reduction with heavy weapons, and Scouts' role as, well, a scout (intel agent, hacker, eyes-on-the-ground) is urged. Further, Logi would be more focused on support, because running a Logi suit as a slayer would produce less dps than a proper Assault suit. >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
Corporal Axton Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.04.11 17:38:00 - [6] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Please don't make a thread about possible changes for tanks . Playing a role and then asking for that role to be changed for the worst is ( no offense to you OP ) just plain stupid . It's not a problem with all the scouts running around and the changes turned me off from reinvesting into the role after 1.8 . They are one of the prime targets of this game and to make them just a walking storage depot with no way to counter attack is just not wise . I have seen multiple logi posts asking for their roles to be lessened today and just find this as being another case of the community being distracted and focusing on the unimportant while slighting what is important . It's not the Tank thats OP, AV is broken. Most people complaining about the tanks currently are people who killed madrugars and gunnnlogis with three AV grenades. However I do agree that made AV worse while buffing the actual survivablility of a tank. It used to where if you saw a tank it's like seeing a solar elcipse. A rare phenomenon it was
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2048	Posted - 2014.04.11 17:41:00 - [7] - Quote I haven't witnessed a single "slayer logi" in 1.8. I run support logi, but if my weapon became as useful as a nerf gun I'd stop playing logi period. Might as well just take away the weapon slot entirely. Every other suit class is already better at slaying than 1.8 logis. There's no reason to take away our slim chance at self defense.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 722	Posted - 2014.04.11 18:35:00 - [8] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I haven't witnessed a single "slayer logi" in 1.8. I run support logi, but if my weapon became as useful as a nerf gun I'd stop playing logi period. Might as well just take away the weapon slot entirely. Every other suit class is already better at slaying than 1.8 logis. There's no reason to take away our slim chance at self defense. Same here. I'm not saying there aren't a few bad slayer logis lingering but I definitely don't see even more need to nerf a class even further than it already has to remove those slayers. My suits are expensive and I run support because I'm personally a bad shot but I'm getting tired of this argument against logis as if we were never meant to be soldiers at all. In other news, I have personally not run anything but militia and basic gear since 1.8 hit. My suits cost way to much to be lost to a militia shotgun. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2051	Posted - 2014.04.11 18:49:00 - [9] - Quote Heh that's another problem. High tier nanohive and repair tool costs are way out of line with other types of equipment, easily adding 20k isk more to the cost of an advanced suit than if you just used uplinks, scanners and needles.
Ku Shala The Generals General Tso's Alliance 925	Posted - 2014.04.11 18:59:00 - [10] - Quote the cost of a logi is its downfall as well as being slow and not having a sidearm. if you nerf the damage a logi can put out (a) you will get troll logis (B) you will get scout logis. if you are not fited with a proto logi suit you have no right to complain about anything a logi does, my proto logi fit cost me 240k isk or more where my proto assault suit cost around 170k with 2 proto weapons. I have 17 millions sp invested in dropsuit upgrades all my equipment has been nerfed without the price going down, my suit bonus has been changed more than once, an adv suit cost 60+k ,if I don't kill the rasberry shooting your corpse I am hated for fufilling my role, I am the first target in a fire fight, without armour plates i move slightly faster than a heavy, to hold good equipment I have to fit a cpu upgrade with all my core skills maxed.... and you think Logis need to be nerfed? Choke on rusted needle spam in an open field surrounded by rasberries *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä* Closed Beta ¦¦V¦¦e¦¦t ¦¦ H8R Caldari Loyalist

SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 488	Posted - 2014.04.11 20:32:00 - [11] - Quote No way, OP. Get this garbage idea out of your head now. It absolutely amazes me that some people are still calling for logi nerfs when finding a logi on the field in 1.8 is akin to spotting a sasquatch. Dude, turn in your logi credentials and stick to tanking full time. With suggestions like that, you are no logi bro of mine.
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2749	Posted - 2014.04.11 22:07:00 - [12] - Quote No slayer logi in 1.8. What you saw was a logi with gungame. Victor Laszlo: ... If we stop breathing, we'll die. If we stop fighting our enemies, the world will die.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 526	Posted - 2014.04.12 02:30:00 - [13] - Quote Corporal Axton wrote: I'm full time logi part time tanker. I've noticed on the field somebody will be running a "slayer logi". I personally have an issue with this. I haven't noticed CCP saying about what will happen to logis. I think that Logistics suits shouldn't be able to deal no more than 50% of the damage the weapon the player holds. Logistics need to rely on teammates and reward teammates by reps, nano hives, injectors, etc.. With this significant damage decrease, there needs to be a way that us logis can still live. 50% resistance to all weapons shot at us, we won't be killing efficiently and will be able to support our team without being one shotted by a shotgun or dropped by a scrambler pistol as if I wasn't there to begin with. I'd prefer logis to read this and reply. Assualts don't understand the difficult job as a logi really is. Strongly disagree. Sounds like you want to completely take Logi's out of the fight. The really good logi's out there do their support job, while being able to hold their own in the odd gunfight, netting a few kills in the process. A lot of the self proclaimed 'true logi's' out there I find just want to be useful despite their terrible gun game. But the truth is, any idiot can hold a rep tool on a heavy all game. But you still have to be able to jump in the fight once in a while. And nothing wrong with having slayer logi's either. There should be variety in how you want to run your suit. I would agree that the majority of "slayers" should not be Logi's. Besides, 1.8 pretty much put logi's where they need to be. Who cares what some sniper has to say
Thokk Nightshade Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 51	Posted - 2014.04.12 04:33:00 - [14] - Quote lee corwood wrote: Kristoff Atruin wrote: I haven't witnessed a single "slayer logi" in 1.8. I run support logi, but if my weapon became as useful as a nerf gun I'd stop playing logi period. Might as well just take away the weapon slot entirely. Every other suit class is already better at slaying than 1.8 logis. There's no reason to take away our slim chance at self defense. Same here. I'm not saying there aren't a few bad slayer logis lingering but I definitely don't see even more need to nerf a class even further than it already has to remove those slayers. My suits are expensive and I run support because I'm personally a bad shot but I'm getting tired of this argument against logis as if we were never meant to be soldiers at all. In other news, I have personally not run anything but militia and basic gear since 1.8 hit. My suits cost way to much to be lost to a militia shotgun. This. All of this. Especially the last part. I will admit I run an adv. suit just so I can have the 3 equip slots, but everything else on the suit is basic/militia
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation 532	Posted - 2014.04.12 07:03:00 - [15] - Quote Corporal Axton wrote: I'm full time logi part time tanker. I've noticed on the field somebody will be running a "slayer logi". I personally have an issue with this. I haven't noticed CCP saying about what will happen to logis. I think that Logistics suits shouldn't be able to deal no more than 50% of the damage the weapon the player holds. Logistics need to rely on teammates and reward teammates by reps, nano hives, injectors, etc.. With this significant damage decrease, there needs to be a way that us logis can still live. 50% resistance to all weapons shot at us, we won't be killing efficiently and will be able to support our team without being one shotted by a shotgun or dropped by a scrambler pistol as if I wasn't there to begin with. I'd prefer logis to read this and reply. Assualts don't understand the difficult job as a logi really is. NO. The added resistance is useless if i can't kill the enemy before reviving people on my team. Want to have more logis "logiing"? Start tracking stuff like n-¦ of revies, hp repaired and player resupplied toghether with Kills and deaths.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1946	Posted - 2014.04.12 07:57:00 - [16] - Quote I couldn't agree less. Logistics are Combat Support not Medics. Their role is supplying ammo, repairing assets and infantry, providing troop movement (uplinks) as well as actual combat support, this includes direct and indirect fire. In my corp, unless you spend every second of a match with a repair tool glued to the ass of a Heavy who is taking damage, 100% of the time, I expect Logistics to be providing whatever fire support they can. There are countless examples of where you are better off shooting than repairing/dropping hives/dropping uplinks/ect. To completely gimp a Logistics' suits ability to provide fire support is to strip them of one of their very crucial roles. That gun they're holding isn't for looks, it's for shooting. Instead incentive the use of an Assault suit more so that people are encouraged to use them over Logistics if they want to play the direct combat role. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 905	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:15:00 - [17] - Quote You know what I have an personal issue with? With people that claim to be fulltime logi and say they are also a parttime tanker in the same sentence. The logi role is the only role (maybe AV role too?) that needs teamwork to be really effective...good look finding that when you just want a quick match where everyone in a heavy, scout or tank goes of SOLO.
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN Dirt Nap Squad. 169	Posted - 2014.04.12 12:01:00 - [18] - Quote I feel like you're being you're being ~~stupid~~ unreasonable. Now that we both have our feelings out of the way, let me show you why. I'm finding it hard to believe that you really run logi "full time," I also run logi full time. I can tell you this, if I didn't have my primary weapon to back me up at 100% damage I would be dying ten times a game. But hey what does that matter? My suit only cost 230k ISK for a single suit.Not all logis are on heavies all the time, sometimes it's not beneficial to the team to only be keeping one guy alive, when you can be going around repping everyone you see that is hurt, and when you are going from player to player there is a high chance you will be seen, and shot at, and then if your damage is at 50% you're completely screwed. Edit: When I say I run full time logi this does include slayer logi when I'm running solo or I'm in a squad with only scouts. I'm a logi now! :D
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2306	Posted - 2014.04.12 12:04:00 - [19] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: A lot of the self proclaimed 'true logi's' out there I find just want to be useful despite their terrible gun game. But the truth is, any idiot can hold a rep tool on a heavy all game. But you still have to be able to jump in the fight once in a while. Hey, I resemble that remark! Holding a tool on a heavy all game isn't as easy as it seams. I am a logi almost full time and it took a while to get good at it. Knowing where your heavy is, where he is going and keeping a lock is difficult and it is not just running behind someone all game. I work very hard at being a good logi so don't act like shooting is that much harder, it is a simple interface, just point and click. Knowing when to drop a hive or needle someone is a skill that takes time to master and a unskilled logi waste their equipment and die often to pick-up traps. Especially now with how equipment works it is even more vital your logi knows his job and to have good situational awareness. I die mostly because my slayers are more focused on their run and gun game and getting a kill then to anything else, they often don't listen to coms or act on warnings I give them because they are more focused on making that one kill than their surroundings. Heavies run off from a logi suit because they feel invincible with 100 HP/s on them and it causes them and me to die because they weren't thinking about the fragile connection we have. Running around corners too fast, through doorways at sharp angles and jumping off ledges before I can can get close enough to follow causes them and me to die when a slower approach and better angle of attacks would have kept us both alive. Good logis are not idiots, we may not have the best gun game but it you keep in touch with a good logi you will go far. As far as a nerf to logi weapon slots, hell no. I may be a bad shot but when I do fire it does help. I am bad shot because I don't practice shooting like I do with equipment and having the DPS cut in half would cause a lot of people a lot more deaths, I may not be slayer but I do rack up assists because I am assisting my slayer and not just standing there with my tool in hand waiting on free points. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
DaNizzle4shizle Pradox One Proficiency V. 769	Posted - 2014.04.12 13:03:00 - [20] - Quote Corporal Axton wrote: I'm full time logi part time tanker. I've noticed on the field somebody will be running a "slayer logi". I personally have an issue with this. I haven't noticed CCP saying about what will happen to logis. I think that Logistics suits shouldn't be able to deal no more than 50% of the damage the weapon the player holds. Logistics need to rely on teammates and reward teammates by reps, nano hives, injectors, etc.. With this significant damage decrease, there needs to be a way that us logis can still live. 50% resistance to all weapons shot at us, we won't be killing efficiently and will be able to support our team without being one shotted by a shotgun or dropped by a scrambler pistol as if I wasn't there to begin with. I'd prefer logis to read this and reply. Assualts don't understand the difficult job as a logi really is. I am a full time logi. I serve my purpose while repping my heavys with meh six kin. But there comes a time where you do get bored of always repping and dying. I took matters into my own hand and started killing crap. I have fun when I save a heavy I am repping by shoving my CR in the guys face when he is on the flank. Look at my kdr bro. No normal logi has that. almost 2.00 kdr. I am happy with myself. I hope you learn from this that I write. You could use if for your own benefit. Stay frosty bro. Proficiency 5 on my combat rifle, rail rifle, and my assault rifle. Dedicated heavy repper with a bit of slayer inside.

TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 3034	Posted - 2014.04.12 13:33:00 - [21] - Quote What?. So basically, any logi that isn't Amarr is a free kill while the Amarr logi might nearly kill someone?. Iv been a logi for almost a year and a half now and you sir have won the award for the most ridiculous post ever and I don't believe you are a logi unless dying is your idea of supporting a team. Tldr: gtfo. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. The tritanium I sell is more relevant than dust has ever been.
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 113	Posted - 2014.04.12 14:00:00 - [22] - Quote As stated in my signature I am mostly a solo player and like to run Gal logi as a general "position establish and hold" role, without necessarily running in a squad. I just get to a easily defendable position with objective access, get uplinks and rep-hives down and then try to hold out there as long as possible. Turns out I end up high on the board and contribute to the team-success pretty nicely. I go KDR positive most of the time too and am as independent as I like to be (solo player again). So as it stands, I am rewarded for this particular play style. Is this how a logi "should" be played? Maybe for a Gal logi it is. I like this playstyle and dont want to see it go away. I play more up front sometimes, but only with cheap fits with repper and needle that get blapped fast. I think this is where OPs frustration kicks in. So maybe there should be a little forcefield appearing, boosting your shields whenever you rep or needle someone? That would be a more specific adjustment instead of a overall resistance across the board... The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
emtbraincase The Phoenix Federation 119	Posted - 2014.04.12 16:34:00 - [23] - Quote Didn't read the whole thread, just had an idea reading the initial post and a few others.... What about any weapon on a Logi suit gets NO upgrades applied. Meaning you can have any passives, dmg mods, etc on and a logi suit will still do a flat dmg per weapon at the initially stated speed and proficiency of the weapon in the market. At the same time, their suits would have the mentioned resistances to compensate for this pretty significant reduction in killing. This would, hopefully, give people who want to use a logi suit to slay absolutely no reason to do it, and logi will get a bit of the assist the old armor rep suit bonus gave us in the form of a 10-25% reduction to dmg rec'd. In a nutshell, ANY weapon on ANY logi suit would be fired at the same dmg as someone with 0SP put into a character just using a Starter Medic fit (meaning a magsec SMG only does max 35 HP @ std, 36.75 adv, and 38.5 @ proto and never goes up). No extra ammo, no extra dmg, no extra cooldown or weapon sway reduction.....just a straight dmg number per round and there is nothing that can be done about it. Quickest way to remove slayerlogi (no benefit to dmg no matter what you do) and logi can still get a slightly better chance at surviving/hiding from that initial attack while a rep tool is out. Edit: we already know they can have passives suspended (it's happening right now almost every time you spawn in), why not use that to make logi suits useful to Logi's again.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1851	Posted - 2014.04.12 21:53:00 - [24] - Quote terrible idea, and you're not the first to suggest it.... not even in the top 10.... logis already don't have side arms except amarr (and they need to go) and if you fit a logi suit with good equipment you cant put the best shield and armor mods in or use the proto version of a weapon without trade offs. what they need to do is make assaults more attractive to spec into, not nerf the logi dmg to 50%.... 50% that's just ridiculous, maybe 10% could be argued but I still wouldn't agree because to be quite honest we logis are the only class that can turn the tide of a battle and get very little assistance doing it from the majority of blueberry scrubs out there who have the situational awareness of 2 year olds..... no the logi doesn't need any kind of nerf.... on a good team they function as intended. on a poor team they get a passive nerf due to poor player execution... this game makes me sad....
Jillic Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 41	Posted - 2014.04.13 06:08:00 - [25] - Quote Sometimes we have to clear an area to needle our bro's. I'm not gonna be able to stick my pen into my buddy if that redberry is trying to nail me to the wall beside him. So I need a reliable weapon to burn him down. Caldari Girls Do It Better.
emtbraincase The Phoenix Federation 119	Posted - 2014.04.13 13:55:00 - [26] - Quote And I wasn't necessarily for weapon nerfing on logi, but if it would give me some built-in resistance/rep I was game to try. Also, they could allow passive bonuses to my idea but restrict any dmg mods on a logi suit. (that way the player has ONLY the bonuses that would work on even a Free starter fit) Again, not wanting to get my suit hit but if the bump is greater, in my eyes, then I am all for it. A built-in resistance/rep is more important than ANY weapon to me with my logi, so they could limit me to only a sidearm that does half dmg and my role would barely change (if at all). I'm just trying to convince someone who wants that to think that maybe you can get what you want without harming logi too much.


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