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Alldin Kan
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1046
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well, to a decent player, yeah free kill... The Heavy suit as is, has a considerably low HP that even its current speed can't compensate for it and the HP isn't distributed properly. The only good thing about the suit is the stamina regen of 40...
Why not buff overall speed?
Why not give more melee damage (Sentinel?
Why not give hidden reload bonus (Sentinel)?
The suit needs to feel useful and unique, for that it needs:
Shield HP - 460 HP (Commando - 320 HP)
Armor HP - 400 HP (Commando - 265 HP)
Movement Speed - 4.20 m/s (Commando - 4.40 m/s)
Sprinting Speed - 5.88 m/s (Commando - 6.16 m/s)
Heavy Weapon Reload speed - 10% bonus
Racial bonus for Laser resist raised to 4% (still partial protection compared to Caldari/Gallente Maximum protection)
Melee damage - 180 HP per hit
Keep in mind that a good Caldari heavy will reach 800 Shields and that Gallente/Amarr Heavy are commonly seen with over 900 Armor.
Now for Gallente/Amarr, on medium suits the only noticeable differences are on CPU/PG and speed. On HP distribution and its total they're usually similar when well fitted. The innate Armor regen on the medium Gallente suit (and other sizes) is so minuscule that I hardly find it useful. On Heavies, the Gallente has too much HP dedicated to Shields and Armor HP total is usually similar on well-fitted Gallente/Amarr Heavies. For there to be a unique setup, I would like to see the following changes applied:
Amarr Medium stats:
Shields - 100 HP
Armor - 260 HP
High Slot - 2
Low Slot - 4
Amarr Heavy HP stats - 240 Shields / 720 Armor (racial bonus for projectile resist now raised to 4%)
Gallente Stats:
Light suit - innate Armor regen of 6 HP/s
Medium suit - innate Armor regen of 5 HP/s
Sentinel suit - innate Armor regen of 4 HP/s
Sentinel HP - 315 Shields / 600 Armor (Just admit that you never get your shields back to full on PC)
In this manner, The Gallente would be more oriented towards Armor rep while Amarr would be oriented towards tank... uh maybe (sort of rushed it). I think Caldari medium might also need some treatment...
Uprising 1.8 - Invisible War
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buzzzzzzz killllllllll
TRA1LBLAZERS
426
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
try running a min heavy with biotics/dampeners and a burst hmg... wrecks all other heavies
Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
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MythTanker
The Phoenix Federation
19
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Speak for yourself I do pretty good with this suit. Its a flank/hit n run suit. Takes a high amount of skill i know, but it is worth it. Players who underestimate my suit are "free kill"
Heavies are OP? Say that to the buisness end of my HMG you peasent.
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Alldin Kan
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1047
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
MythTanker wrote:Speak for yourself I do pretty good with this suit. Its a flank/hit n run suit. Takes a high amount of skill i know, but it is worth it. Players who underestimate my suit are "free kill"
All my other heavies are far better than the suit and I have only seen 2 PRO Min Sentinel on 1.8 
Uprising 1.8 - Invisible War
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Alldin Kan
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1047
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote:try running a min heavy with biotics/dampeners and a burst hmg... wrecks all other heavies
Never run dampeners like that...
Uprising 1.8 - Invisible War
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Seamie Schmoove
Ancient Exiles.
Dirt Nap Squad.
145
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote:try running a min heavy with biotics/dampeners and a burst hmg... wrecks all other heavies
New to the heavy game but I've come up against quite a few Mini Heavies the last few days
that are straight up beasting. I don't consider them the easy take on people seem to believe
they are.
Playing the game badly since Replication
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Vong Gai
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
5
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Posted - 2014.04.11 14:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
As a dedicated heavy, I have the ability to run Proto in all classes, contrary to most others I use the Minmatar over the Gallente and Amarr. I love the speed of the suit and the balance of H/L slots. I used to run the Basic Amarr prototype over the Sentinnel for this same reason. I think the Gallente is too dependent on a good Logi and the Amarr along with its dependence is just too slow. Sorry for disrespecting the Caldari but one Flux grenade and you are a respawn. As far as the "Free Kill" comment, If you run into an experienced heavy running Minmatar don't be surprised if you're joining the Caldari heavy at the CRU.
"If you ain't with us, you're against us !"
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Jebus McKing
332
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd really like to know if the movement speed of 4.20m/s of the basic Min Heavy (Sentinel is 4.05) is a typo or if it is intended that way.
Meanwhile I'm really having fun with a basic Min Heavy and 2 kin cats. I call this fitting "HMG Delivery Service".
@JebusMcKing // TIERICIDE, just do it, CCP.
ò_Ô
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
2742
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lol minmatarr heavy suits. They have ass pouches and look like a dumpster warrior.
Head of public relations from The Rainbow Effect.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
463
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote:try running a min heavy with biotics/dampeners and a burst hmg... wrecks all other heavies
Dampener on a heavy? Why?
Because, that's why.
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Kam Elto
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
244
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote:try running a min heavy with biotics/dampeners and a burst hmg... wrecks all other heavies Dampener on a heavy? Why? wouldn't you need like three complex to be effective?
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Broonfondle Majikthies
Dogs of War Gaming
Zero-Day
1129
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
I run Pro Min sentinel.
Resistances are surprisingly awesome vs scramblers. I didn't think they would be considering how much alpha + damage model works vs shields.
Went in to Fw and twice met a proto Amarr assault with pro scrambler rifle and he struggled to get 2/3ds of my shields down, and I don't run extenders.
Playing Min sentinel is about being a heavy hitting flanker / hugging cover. Either maximise your mobility to flank the enemy or max on health regen to pop you back into the fight faster. Its not a bulldozer like the other 2 major heavies and requires more tactical awareness. I love it.
"...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
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Disturbingly Bored
Forum Warfare
2194
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote:try running a min heavy with biotics/dampeners and a burst hmg... wrecks all other heavies
Unless of course that other heavy is using a burst HMG. And he should. Minmatar Sentinel just doesn't survive against against the HMG heavyweights of Amarr and Gallente.
Minmatar Sentinel is a damn good Tank hunter, though. It took some creativity, but I slapped 2x Complex Damage Mods and an Ishukone AFG on the M-I Sentinel. I love the fit, and quite effective for 56k ISK.
I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - draconian forum overlord CCP Logibro]
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
3861
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Too many people think "oh it's a sentinel, I better stack HP"
No.
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
838
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Posted - 2014.04.11 15:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
MythTanker wrote:Speak for yourself I do pretty good with this suit. Its a flank/hit n run suit. Takes a high amount of skill i know, but it is worth it. Players who underestimate my suit are "free kill" Thank you for pointing this out: suits take skill to use. Drop suits aren't just "one suit with different layouts." They all have their own play styles. You have to choose your engagements.
- Caldari suits are great at small sustained engagements. You have enough buffer in your shields to survive a small engagement. Then, your shields regenerate quickly so you can take then next engagement.
- Minmatar are great at "hit and run" tactics. The speed you get, balanced slot layout, and stamina mean that you're quite mobile, but your hitpoints dictate that you have to take small fights (best at range).
- Gallente are great at moderate speeds (even with plates), and the regen means that eventually you'll get to full without a Logistic companion. Their base moderate speed means that you're not quite as slow as Amarr when fully plated, and the armor buffer means that you're good at brawling.
- Amarr are best at brick tanking. They have tremendous base armor and low slots to fill with even more. Yes, they're the slowest, but they are compensated with the highest stamina and sprint time. So, while your other heavy friends are running out of steam midway out in the open, you're still chugging along to that next piece of cover.
All these suits have different feels and themes. You can't just play Caldari as you would Minmatar as you would Gallente as you would Amarr. Suits are specialized for various scenarios and different engagements. For example, I always run my Minmatar heavy suit with an Assault HMG. Why? The greater increased optimal range means that I can stay farther away from that other heavy or infantry and have a better chance at killing them before they get close to me, because that's how their play style is.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
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Disturbingly Bored
Forum Warfare
2194
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Posted - 2014.04.11 16:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:All these suits have different feels and themes. You can't just play Caldari as you would Minmatar as you would Gallente as you would Amarr. Suits are specialized for various scenarios and different engagements. For example, I always run my Minmatar heavy suit with an Assault HMG. Why? The greater increased optimal range means that I can stay farther away from that other heavy or infantry and have a better chance at killing them before they get close to me, because that's how their play style is.
+1 for thinking. Also, I haven't tried an Assault HMG on Minmatar yet, I'll have to give it a shot. 
(Been using the Steel Gorilla Suit strictly as an FG/SMG platform...)
Last I did the math, AHMG had a slightly better damage profile than the Gallente AR at 40m, which should be pretty interesting.
I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - draconian forum overlord CCP Logibro]
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noob cavman
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
1219
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Posted - 2014.04.11 16:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gal heavy is ridiculously easy to fit as well
so much cpu and pg!
I want to be a caveman!
Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK
Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick.
dem spandex yo
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
842
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Posted - 2014.04.11 16:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:All these suits have different feels and themes. You can't just play Caldari as you would Minmatar as you would Gallente as you would Amarr. Suits are specialized for various scenarios and different engagements. For example, I always run my Minmatar heavy suit with an Assault HMG. Why? The greater increased optimal range means that I can stay farther away from that other heavy or infantry and have a better chance at killing them before they get close to me, because that's how their play style is. +1 for thinking. Also, I haven't tried an Assault HMG on Minmatar yet, I'll have to give it a shot. (Been using the Steel Gorilla Suit strictly as an FG/SMG platform...) Last I did the math, AHMG had a slightly better damage profile than the Gallente AR at 40m, which should be pretty interesting. I've dueled a Gallente heavy with an MH-82 HMG WITH logi holding his hand with my basic Minmatar Sentinel with the Assault HMG and won simply because nearly all of my shots were connecting with him and much less of his were hitting me. (My suit had a complex shield extender and a basic reactive plate.)
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
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WUT ANG
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
173
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
noob cavman wrote:Gal heavy is ridiculously easy to fit as well so much cpu and pg!
I'm sure this Will change when the other heavy weapons show up cmon ccp put them out already.
Minmatar all the way.
Weapon sp refund please
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Jenza's Pants
The Hetairoi
155
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:Well, to a decent player, yeah free kill... The Heavy suit as is, has a considerably low HP that even its current speed can't compensate for it and the HP isn't distributed properly. The only good thing about the suit is the stamina regen of 40...
Why not buff overall speed?
Why not give more melee damage (Sentinel?
Why not give hidden reload bonus (Sentinel)?
The suit needs to feel useful and unique, for that it needs:
Shield HP - 460 HP (Commando - 320 HP)
Armor HP - 400 HP (Commando - 265 HP)
Movement Speed - 4.20 m/s (Commando - 4.40 m/s)
Sprinting Speed - 5.88 m/s (Commando - 6.16 m/s)
Heavy Weapon Reload speed - 10% bonus
Racial bonus for Laser resist raised to 4% (still partial protection compared to Caldari/Gallente Maximum protection)
Melee damage - 180 HP per hit
Keep in mind that a good Caldari heavy will reach 800 Shields and that Gallente/Amarr Heavy are commonly seen with over 900 Armor.
Now for Gallente/Amarr, on medium suits the only noticeable differences are on CPU/PG and speed. On HP distribution and its total they're usually similar when well fitted. The innate Armor regen on the medium Gallente suit (and other sizes) is so minuscule that I hardly find it useful. On Heavies, the Gallente has too much HP dedicated to Shields and Armor HP total is usually similar on well-fitted Gallente/Amarr Heavies. For there to be a unique setup, I would like to see the following changes applied:
Amarr Medium stats:
Shields - 100 HP
Armor - 260 HP
High Slot - 2
Low Slot - 4
Amarr Heavy HP stats - 240 Shields / 720 Armor (racial bonus for projectile resist now raised to 4%)
Gallente Stats:
Light suit - innate Armor regen of 6 HP/s
Medium suit - innate Armor regen of 5 HP/s
Sentinel suit - innate Armor regen of 4 HP/s
Sentinel HP - 315 Shields / 600 Armor (Just admit that you never get your shields back to full on PC)
In this manner, The Gallente would be more oriented towards Armor rep while Amarr would be oriented towards tank... uh maybe (sort of rushed it). I think Caldari medium might also need some treatment...
kincats
/thread.
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Vong Gai
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
10
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Posted - 2014.04.11 19:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Min Heavy is a great asset in FW. We have tank Gallente/Logi's holding points, and with my speed I can support each when trouble comes. That is what the mobility gives you. You're foolish though or not a very good heavy, if you think it can't go toe to toe with the others. I regularly send them to the CRU.
"If you ain't with us, you're against us !"
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The Eristic
Sad Panda Solutions
392
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Posted - 2014.04.11 19:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Amarr are best at brick tanking.
Except, in practice, they aren't. Almost every Gallente suit can out-brick its Amarr counterpart AND have built-in reps.
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medomai grey
WarRavens
League of Infamy
582
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Posted - 2014.04.11 19:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
A lot of people like to treat heavy suits like bullet sponges. These people tend to die quickly then complain that the heavy doesn't have enough HP and survivability. These people don't know how to use heavy suits to their maximum potential.
Minmatar heavy is a mobile heavy with a decent amount of health(lowest for heavies though). Equip an HMG and use the suit for gorilla warfare tactics.
Medium frame EHP is not medium
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
2775
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yea f no to gallente getting a passive rep boost when you barely even touch the Amarr suits.
Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
843
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:Amarr are best at brick tanking. Except, in practice, they aren't. Almost every Gallente suit can out-brick its Amarr counterpart AND have built-in reps. Well, no. Amarr and Gallente share slot layouts (not really counting medium suits, since they haven't gotten their slots rebalanced in 1.8). Amarr have more base armor and same low slots. How can you then say that Gallente can have more potential armor? The numbers don't support that. Each would have 4 lows filled with plates and the Amarr would have more base armor to start with.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
467
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vong Gai wrote:The Min Heavy is a great asset in FW. We have tank Gallente/Logi's holding points, and with my speed I can support each when trouble comes. That is what the mobility gives you. You're foolish though or not a very good heavy, if you think it can't go toe to toe with the others. I regularly send them to the CRU.
Yeah, that Alldin guy sucks, you should show him how to play.
Because, that's why.
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Alldin Kan
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1058
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Posted - 2014.04.11 20:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Maybe I was slightly excessive on new speed values but the reason for that was that on my Caldari Sentinel I can fit a complex kinetic (would be 5% slower than Min Heavy with 1 kin, no real difference) and have almost twice the amount of shields and better regen (1 dmg mod, 2 extenders for 801 HP, 1 PRO S Recharge for 42 rep). I don't even need my armor with this fit as I would rarely go low on HP and the low stamina + recharge hardly matters on CQC maps.
Uprising 1.8 - Invisible War
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Alldin Kan
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1059
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:Amarr are best at brick tanking. Except, in practice, they aren't. Almost every Gallente suit can out-brick its Amarr counterpart AND have built-in reps.
Gallente is better when you have a logi to fully utilize bonuses (low shield regen would be irrelevant), otherwise the Amarr would be better since you can put a PRO shield energizer (+dmg mod) to fully recover shields in tough fights. Maybe it would be ok to leave current stats as is but I'm just not ok with a suit that has to rely on another to be sustainable while there's others than can be lethal (Ex. Caldari Heavy and Scout, Amarr Assault with Triage hive of 70 HP/s), though Gallente heavy has it easier than the rest (LOL Gallente Commando).
Uprising 1.8 - Invisible War
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Boot Booter
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
447
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Posted - 2014.04.11 21:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
I love everything minmatar. The low HP means you have to play differently than the other suits. Hit and run, hit and run. I destroy other heavies with burst hmg and superior strafe and speed. Out in the open I'm toast though.
The same goes for all minmatar suits. They don't suck, you just don't know how to use them. There's more to dust than stand, point gun, and rely on dps and HP.
Oh and for the record... ITS GUERILLA WARFARE!
(although... The thought of gorillas engaging in war does intrigue me.) |
Alldin Kan
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1059
|
Posted - 2014.04.11 21:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
MythTanker wrote:Speak for yourself I do pretty good with this suit. Its a flank/hit n run suit. Takes a high amount of skill i know, but it is worth it. Players who underestimate my suit are "free kill"
I have yet to see a good Min Heavy, especially on PC... try the Sentinel CK.0 with a kin on low as it's the better fit.
Uprising 1.8 - Invisible War
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