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Solution for Brick-Scouts.

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Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2494	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:04:00 - [1] - Quote Huge stacking penalty for HP modules on scout suits. 1st module: 100% 2nd module: 50% 3rd module: 25% 4th module: 12.5% 5th module: 6.25% Thus would highly disincentivise using more than one extender and one armor plate per suit, without making it impossible to HP tank a scout suit. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
Jackof All-Trades The Black Renaissance 561	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:13:00 - [2] - Quote I'm kinda liking it, but could go badly wrong. Just scout suits, or all modules? "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2494	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:15:00 - [3] - Quote Jackof All-Trades wrote: I'm kinda liking it, but could go badly wrong. Just scout suits, or all modules? Just HP modules on scout suits. Only Plates and Extenders. Maybe not Ferroscales... Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 326	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:39:00 - [4] - Quote Zero speed penaltys stacking armour plates on a heavy frame keep them as they are for medium frames Double the penalty for light frames.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2495	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:42:00 - [5] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Zero speed penaltys stacking armour plates on a heavy frame keep them as they are for medium frames Double the penalty for light frames. That just addresses armour though. I am of the opinion that Caldari scouts should not have 450 shields... Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
tander09 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 84	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:44:00 - [6] - Quote Oh it's not like the amarr is built for brick tanking! /sarcasam Quit crying, you are basically giving a kick to the balls for the amarr, so go back to EVElopedia and research amarr some more. Recruiter link here: https://dust514.com/recruit/FepTs1/ Try and steal my BPOs. I dare ya. AMARRIAN4LYFE
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2495	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:46:00 - [7] - Quote tander09 wrote: Oh it's not like the amarr is built for brick tanking! /sarcasam Quit crying, you are basically giving a kick to the balls for the amarr, so go back to EVElopedia and research amarr some more. I am an Amarr Scout... I don't think I should be able to have 1100 HP... Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
Zetsumi Ravencroft Ultramarine Corp 17	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:46:00 - [8] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Zero speed penaltys stacking armour plates on a heavy frame keep them as they are for medium frames Double the penalty for light frames. Now this idea I like. Makes more sense anyway since heavy suits are better designed for distributing the weight of their weapons, armor, and shielding systems so the extra weight added on by armor plates wouldn't be felt nearly as much as it would on a medium or light class dropsuit. Also... fat suits... we're slow enough as is anyway, it's not gonna make much of a difference if we lose the speed penalty for putting on those plates we need. M.A.G - Former RAVEN
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3259	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:54:00 - [9] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Zero speed penaltys stacking armour plates on a heavy frame keep them as they are for medium frames Double the penalty for light frames. That just addresses armour though. I am of the opinion that Caldari scouts should not have 450 shields... If you want to change shields look to EVE Shields increase Signature Radius So shields increase the sig radius by x amount but that could be a nerf to the caldari scout since its main tank is shields
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2495	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:58:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Zero speed penaltys stacking armour plates on a heavy frame keep them as they are for medium frames Double the penalty for light frames. That just addresses armour though. I am of the opinion that Caldari scouts should not have 450 shields... If you want to change shields look to EVE Shields increase Signature Radius So shields increase the sig radius by x amount but that could be a nerf to the caldari scout since its main tank is shields That is a separate issue altogether. I would love for shields to increase profile signature, but this is about Brick tanked scouts... Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle

Kaylee Veloc Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 66	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:58:00 - [11] - Quote Possible solution for brick tanking in general, say you stack all shields nothing happens, say you stack all armour nothing happens but say you start adding both they have a penalty which detracts from each other so you arent gaining godly amounts of eHP. Example; All highs are sheild extenders, start adding armour in all the lows and your sheild gets lower to compensate for your suits inability to handle that amount of added weight / electronics whatever (because you know RP) and vice versa. But not at a 1-1 ratio so it's still viable to a point if you really want to besides the suits that are designed for it and it just wouldn't work I don't think because of the diiferent values so percentage based. On the spot idea so if it doesn't make to much sense I apologise.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 895	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:59:00 - [12] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Huge stacking penalty for HP modules on scout suits. 1st module: 100% 2nd module: 50% 3rd module: 25% 4th module: 12.5% 5th module: 6.25% Thus would highly disincentivise using more than one extender and one armor plate per suit, without making it impossible to HP tank a scout suit. yawn Shield extenders are bad enough... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3259	Posted - 2014.04.07 11:59:00 - [13] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Zero speed penaltys stacking armour plates on a heavy frame keep them as they are for medium frames Double the penalty for light frames. That just addresses armour though. I am of the opinion that Caldari scouts should not have 450 shields... If you want to change shields look to EVE Shields increase Signature Radius So shields increase the sig radius by x amount but that could be a nerf to the caldari scout since its main tank is shields That is a separate issue altogether. I would love for shields to increase profile signature, but this is about Brick tanked scouts... But if you bricked a suit with shields your sig would increase by x amount which means you get picked up more and thus the scout cant really be sneaky or it has to use all its low slots just to get back to what its sig radius should be
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2495	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:00:00 - [14] - Quote Kaylee Veloc wrote: Possible solution for brick tanking in general, say you stack all shields nothing happens, say you stack all armour nothing happens but say you start adding both they have a penalty which detracts from each other so you arent gaining godly amounts of eHP. Example; All highs are sheild extenders, start adding armour in all the lows and your sheild gets lower to compensate for your suits inability to handle that amount of added weight / electronics whatever (because you know RP) and vice versa. But not at a 1-1 ratio so it's still viable to a point if you really want to besides the suits that are designed for it and it just wouldn't work I don't think because of the diiferent values so percentage based. On the spot idea so if it doesn't make to much sense I apologise. I would like something like that... However, we will need more useful high slot modules before we can do that. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2137	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:03:00 - [15] - Quote LOL @ the scrubs complaining about scout HP.... Yes I normally run around With 703 HP on my proto Gallente scout suit, what of it? Yes it makes life a lot easyer fighting other scouts, especially the ninja kind, just ask fiddle. Its Nice to be able to take one swing or one shotty shot and still be able to win the scenario. That being said, all other suits at a comparable Level can get even more HP on their suits and still "make it work". Maxing out the HP on any suit is mostly a useless setup anyways, I dare you to find a single "season high quality player" wh actually does it. I tried it several times With a 1100 HP Callogi, utter rubbish, give me 790 HP and faster regen any day over MAX HP.... The issue is not the ability to MAX tank the suits, its the total package. You can get roughly 7-800 HP, fit a cloak, a proto scanner or hive, proto weaponry and nades at proto aswell.... You can basically fit whatever you want short of a proto sidearm and its too much IMO. Either change the cloak bonus or do something about the basic armor plates FFS.... Making a specific rule like this just seems extremely silly and negates one playstyle. And seriously, you guys come here and complain that the scouts have too much HP? Realy? Aren't you all embarrassed? You might aswell have "I'm a big scrub and I know it" written in Your signatures. Hang Your heads in shame, the lot of you. IF MAX HP is soo great then stick to Gallente fatties, max tank that suit and see how it goes.... FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2495	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:05:00 - [16] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Zero speed penaltys stacking armour plates on a heavy frame keep them as they are for medium frames Double the penalty for light frames. That just addresses armour though. I am of the opinion that Caldari scouts should not have 450 shields... If you want to change shields look to EVE Shields increase Signature Radius So shields increase the sig radius by x amount but that could be a nerf to the caldari scout since its main tank is shields That is a separate issue altogether. I would love for shields to increase profile signature, but this is about Brick tanked scouts... But if you bricked a suit with shields your sig would increase by x amount which means you get picked up more and thus the scout cant really be sneaky or it has to use all its low slots just to get back to what its sig radius should be That might work. But even then, there would be the problem of Shield tanked Caldari scouts being faster, tankier, and stealthier than an armor tanked Scout which would have to sacrifice some of their HP modules for a Kincat just to preserve their speed. Unless the signature penalty was huge 25/40/55%, or Kinkats were moved to high slots, this would just make Caldari/Minmatar Scouts superior to Amarr and Gallente ones. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
knight of 6 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1695	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:29:00 - [17] - Quote remember when nobody bitched about brick tanked scouts? a couple of notes: brick tanking with STD and reactive armor plates will make you no faster than a med frame, literally. the only thing you gain from brick tanking a scout is a stealthier med frame w/ more stamina(it should go without saying that the scout will still have less ehp than the med). ferroscale plates sorta suck, I'm probably one of the few idiots fool enough to use them. with your new stacking penalties 2 ferroscales would be worth 112.5 armor (compared to 150 normal) and cost 78 cpu and 28 pg. you are comparing armor and shield values at prototype tiers, I'm not sure that's fair given that scouts very seldom die once a match (necessary for running proto to turn a profit). since 1.8 I've only dropped proto a couple of times, 99% matches I'm running ADV gear. most proto scouts aren't brick tanked, mine are 160/162, 160/325, 220/162. (my adv frames also typically run 160/162) "I speak for the trees!" Ko6 scout,
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 327	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:40:00 - [18] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Zero speed penaltys stacking armour plates on a heavy frame keep them as they are for medium frames Double the penalty for light frames. That just addresses armour though. I am of the opinion that Caldari scouts should not have 450 shields... But then you get a double hit to both shields and armour... Scouts (even gal scouts) should be discouraged from stacking armour (it should be possible) but should be penalised. I have no issues with current Gal/Cal scouts potential hp, but they are marginalising the medium suits (I'd personally prefer to see medium suits buffed and maybe on top of that even commandos and sentinels buffed a bit more - than see scouts nerfed again) I've never really been one for brick tanking though in any suit.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 453	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:51:00 - [19] - Quote I don't see any issue with it. The more you brick tank a scout the slower they become and the less versatile the suit. Most of them would be better off in an Assault suit IMO. The cloak only provides so much cover to a slow scout, easier to kill because their shimmer is so obvious while they slowly try to make their way to cover. I run a Scout ck.0, 4 complex shield extenders no armor. Roughly 500 EHP (~400 shields, ~80 armor), definitely not brick tanked. Basic medium frames can acquire more EHP than that. You want to fix brick tanking, but the method you want to fix it with will hurt players who are using the modules as intended. Good idea, bad work around.
Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. 95	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:51:00 - [20] - Quote Use mass. Lights get low mass, Heavies get high mass. Within that, Amarr have the heaviest suits, and Minmatar have the lightest. Make speed proportional to total mass. Make armour plates heavy. /thread. "Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers." - Unknown

Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 980	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:54:00 - [21] - Quote The REAL solution is more modules, especially High modules. The choice between tank and gank is all there is. Now that EWAR stacking is a thing, you see a lot of scouts trying it out. But those guys have 300-400 HP. Hacking should be reworked for starters. Since when is 2+ people at one computer terminal equal to faster hacking? Instead of standing there like a moron doing nothing except holding square, it should be a minigame. The faster you complete the minigame, the faster you hack. Mods make it easier. Given enough skill in hacking (or a brand new skill branch?) you could also firewall your own team's terminals. First hack the firewall, then hack the terminal. Now you have a population of people, scouts and logistics especially, stacking hack mods instead of HP. This is just an off the wall example. The answer is more choice. Trick the scouts into using other mods besides HP mods. And even if you DO run into a 1000 EHP brick realize that he's (a) slow as molasses, (b) unable to see scouts, (c) probably shows up all over active scanners, (d) still has less EHP than a brick assault. Hail Bacon
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 714	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:54:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Zero speed penaltys stacking armour plates on a heavy frame keep them as they are for medium frames Double the penalty for light frames. That just addresses armour though. I am of the opinion that Caldari scouts should not have 450 shields... If you want to change shields look to EVE Shields increase Signature Radius So shields increase the sig radius by x amount but that could be a nerf to the caldari scout since its main tank is shields That's perfect actually!!! Don't nerf heavies, instead do This
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2126	Posted - 2014.04.07 12:57:00 - [23] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Huge stacking penalty for HP modules on scout suits. 1st module: 100% 2nd module: 50% 3rd module: 25% 4th module: 12.5% 5th module: 6.25% Thus would highly disincentivise using more than one extender and one armor plate per suit, without making it impossible to HP tank a scout suit. Your idea is not good. How about rolling back the movement speed penalty on regular armor plates to previous values (3,5,10%)? Regular armor plates are too good right now (too much bang for the buck, no drawbacks). Alt#1 Scout gk.0 - ScR, CR, RR, PLC, SMG Alt#2 Madrugar - Ion Cannon Alt#3 Commando gk.0 - Shotgun, AR
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 510	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:09:00 - [24] - Quote I really can't see the logic in saying , " Caldari and Minmatar will be better than Gal and Amarr " because it's just not true . Even with any changes , these scouts will be at the bottom as well as their suit mates of other classes . This game has always favored Gal and Amarr . At times the Caldari had their moments like Logi suits but those are the days of old now , never to rise again . Don't try to gimp a suit that relies on shields ( by far one of the weakest items of the game ) because you have problems with players brick tanking . Shield tanking is far less reliable , yes you can move faster but that's because your trying to not get hit ... if you did you would have nothing to fall back on as seeing as you don't have the strength of armor . Just don't try and kill an already easy to kill suit in the Caldari scout . And stop over exaggerating their role bonus as many know that unless your prototype , your not really seeing the benefits at standard and advanced . Just stop it because there are ways to get around being seen by them . Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2500	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:13:00 - [25] - Quote "This game has always favored Gal and Amarr . At times the Caldari had their moments like Logi suits but those are the days of old now , never to rise again" Did you even play this game for the first 1-+ years of its existence? Armor was absolute crap, and people proved that it was multiple times with math. Only recently has Armor become good. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1627	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:14:00 - [26] - Quote Nah. I don't care for this no matter if it's armor or shield. Scouts should be able to brick tank. The true issue is the cloak if you're pointing your fingers at anything. Just make it so that the scouts still have to sacrifice fitting for it(Don't they get a 75% reduction? Change it to 50%). Cloaking should be an option not a go-to for everyone. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1627	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:16:00 - [27] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: "This game has always favored Gal and Amarr . At times the Caldari had their moments like Logi suits but those are the days of old now , never to rise again" Did you even play this game for the first 1-+ years of its existence? Armor was absolute crap, and people proved that it was multiple times with math. Only recently has Armor become good. Let's also bring up the current Gal weapons. Oh and how the Caldari were the first assaults. The only race that has any right to complain is the Minmatar and that's because their fits have lagged for a while in comparison to the others. Don't know how 1.8 deals with them but still. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2501	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:20:00 - [28] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: "This game has always favored Gal and Amarr . At times the Caldari had their moments like Logi suits but those are the days of old now , never to rise again" Did you even play this game for the first 1-+ years of its existence? Armor was absolute crap, and people proved that it was multiple times with math. Only recently has Armor become good. Let's also bring up the current Gal weapons. Oh and how the Caldari were the first assaults. The only race that has any right to complain is the Minmatar and that's because their fits have lagged for a while in comparison to the others. Don't know how 1.8 deals with them but still. The Amarr still only have 3 weapons and no grenade. If that isn't already a reason to complain... The next sockets will be more Caldari stuff. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 889	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:29:00 - [29] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Huge stacking penalty for HP modules on scout suits. 1st module: 100% 2nd module: 50% 3rd module: 25% 4th module: 12.5% 5th module: 6.25% Thus would highly disincentivise using more than one extender and one armor plate per suit, without making it impossible to HP tank a scout suit. Your idea is not good. How about rolling back the movement speed penalty on regular armor plates to previous values (3,5,10%)? Regular armor plates are too good right now (too much bang for the buck, no drawbacks). Armor already HAS plenty of drawback the penalty is already pretty high compared to the really laughable shield penalty. A higher Movement penalty would lead to where we were before. Armor suits horribly UP and std plates would be useless. Brick tanking can be done by ANY suit, just as any suit can speed tank or stealth tank just fine. And believe a fast heavy is quite fun. The reason everyone is brick tanking is a general obsession with hp in this player base. Just make other modules more attractive and the problem should be solved. IMHO brick tanking is totally valid its a strategy for those who want some buffer at the cost of speed. If you prohibit this on scouts you need to prohibit speed or stealth tanking on any other suit as well. And what about brick tanked logis? they can achieve way more HP with more modules and even more CPU/PG. So where do we stop the freedom to build the suits we like for what ever reason? Before you ask my scout runs with under 500hp some of my fitting do not even have 300 hp and they still do work. So a limit to brick tanking won't affect me that much. Its just this game is meant to be a sandbox game where a scout should be able to maximize his HP if he wants to. Just as a heavy can maximize his sprint speed or his stealth... The only thing that needs to be done is the rework of our assault suits, currently they are lacking a bit CPU/PG to make use of their slots...and maybe ad another H/L slot to them...
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1281	Posted - 2014.04.07 13:34:00 - [30] - Quote How about a hard cap on scout suits allowing them to only equip one "traditional" armor plate, much in the same way we can only equip one cloak module. Reactive and Ferroscale plates would be exempt. So if they wanted to stack max EHP, they would be limited to one complex armor plate and three complex ferroscale plates (396 armor for 147 CPU & 54 PG). On a Gal Scout, that'd mean you'd have max 791 EHP, but doing so would leave only 178 CPU and 21 PG for weapons/grenades/equipment.



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