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[vid] railgun OP or is the blaster and missile too specalized

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nakaya indigene 0uter.Heaven 224	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:27:00 - [1] - Quote here I'm having trouble deciding whether the rail is too powerful or its something else. did missiles 2v1 and failed horribly. what do you guys think about rail guns. The Jove espier --- my youtube --> NakaNakaNaka
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1730	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:31:00 - [2] - Quote nakaya indigene wrote: here I'm having trouble deciding whether the rail is too powerful or its something else. did missiles 2v1 and failed horribly. what do you guys think about rail guns. Rails are OP as hell. They were fine before with the spool up and recharge with the overheat. I was able to shoot down dropships just fine without being too quick about it and though a nerf would drive the rail tank back into the redline they are doing that anyway so helping the rail be more CQ is just ruining any role for misssiles. I can see rails being what they are now if you trained the skills up. On a mil tank it is no good. The range nerf was a step in the right direction but it is not the only thing. Bigger maps would go a long way in evening out some of the imbalances in the game. Even on the newer maps we are still being thrown into a tight round and round fish bowl flow for combat. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8028	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:35:00 - [3] - Quote Their spool time needs to increase, and they should have to go through it after each shot. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 4949	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:42:00 - [4] - Quote I think needing to charge after every shot would help. However that might make ADS too powerful. But then again, the counter to an ADS maybe should be infantry AV. Idk GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8029	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:47:00 - [5] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: I think needing to charge after every shot would help. However that might make ADS too powerful. But then again, the counter to an ADS maybe should be infantry AV. Idk Forge obliterates ADS, double forge and they don't have reaction time. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 4950	Posted - 2014.04.03 04:55:00 - [6] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: I think needing to charge after every shot would help. However that might make ADS too powerful. But then again, the counter to an ADS maybe should be infantry AV. Idk Forge obliterates ADS, double forge and they don't have reaction time. I'm trying to look at it from a PC perspective. ADS is already a powerful force in PC. And forges on high ground always get OBd off first thing. So there'd be a long time between when forges try to get back in the city on high ground and ADS is owning everything in the city. I'm not sure how good swarms are currently vs an ADS. I'm guessing they're still pretty bad. So I'm a little hesitant to making ADS more powerful. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
nakaya indigene 0uter.Heaven 224	Posted - 2014.04.03 05:01:00 - [7] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: I think needing to charge after every shot would help. However that might make ADS too powerful. But then again, the counter to an ADS maybe should be infantry AV. Idk right.. its a complicated answer. I'm not sure ccp is gonna have an easy time with this. The Jove espier --- my youtube --> NakaNakaNaka
LittleCuteBunny 388	Posted - 2014.04.03 05:09:00 - [8] - Quote I like to think about the TANK v.s. TANK scenario in this way... Missiles are about hit and run (great at flanking) Blasters are about stay and deliver (great at ground control) Rails are about observe and hit (great at vehicle control) If anything I would like to see the splash of Large Missile Turrets increase, since it is meant to be a medium ground between Blasters and Rails. Recruiter Link Retired.
nakaya indigene 0uter.Heaven 224	Posted - 2014.04.03 05:46:00 - [9] - Quote LittleCuteBunny wrote: I like to think about the TANK v.s. TANK scenario in this way... Missiles are about hit and run (great at flanking) Blasters are about stay and deliver (great at ground control) Rails are about observe and hit (great at vehicle control) If anything I would like to see the splash of Large Missile Turrets increase, since it is meant to be a medium ground between Blasters and Rails. yeah. crap I diddnt mention the spash for missiles.. argh.. it drives me crazy The Jove espier --- my youtube --> NakaNakaNaka
IceShifter Childhaspawn Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 479	Posted - 2014.04.03 06:29:00 - [10] - Quote When I read posts like this I think Im playing a different version of dust that you threadnaughts do. ADS wins in any straight up fight versus any infantry or tank. They are too fast to hit reliably with a forge, and they rep/resist/run through swarms when and if they get into range. Tanks are almost always deployed in an anti infantry mode. Again they rep/resist/run through damage by swarms, though forge guns can alpha them into the nether, the odds of getting 2 or more forge gunners to sneak up of a tanker are slim, the tanker can just drive away if a single shot goes awry. I really want to try the game I hear discussed, I dont believe its DUST514. CCP Logibro is awesome.

GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 1177	Posted - 2014.04.03 07:15:00 - [11] - Quote Nice vid btw . There OP but there almost balanced yet the only way to still take one out is by flanking fast or jihad jeep . 31 Mil SP VET , TANK / DS PILOT CLICK HERE FOR ACTIVE DUST 514 YOUTUBE VIDEOS
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8034	Posted - 2014.04.03 12:58:00 - [12] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Cat Merc wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: I think needing to charge after every shot would help. However that might make ADS too powerful. But then again, the counter to an ADS maybe should be infantry AV. Idk Forge obliterates ADS, double forge and they don't have reaction time. I'm trying to look at it from a PC perspective. ADS is already a powerful force in PC. And forges on high ground always get OBd off first thing. So there'd be a long time between when forges try to get back in the city on high ground and ADS is owning everything in the city. I'm not sure how good swarms are currently vs an ADS. I'm guessing they're still pretty bad. So I'm a little hesitant to making ADS more powerful. Forge has a pretty high range. Even without a rooftop you can clear out ADS's. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1473	Posted - 2014.04.03 13:35:00 - [13] - Quote Railguns are definitely OP. They need to be reverted back to the 1.6 compressed railgun variant. Their current damage and RoF is too high and the heat cost is nonexistent because everything dies before overheat. Blasters also became too powerful with the hardener nerf. I think blasters should only be AI and lose out on AV. Before the hardener nerf I could easily regen my shields through a lot of the blaster DPS, which meant I could easily send out two or three missile volleys. I even barely won against a blaster Gunnlogi with my missile Gunnlogi. But now blasters just shred through my shields and I'm scrambling to get a second volley out before I lose my shield. I think large blaster turret damage needs a 33% reduction. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1473	Posted - 2014.04.03 13:40:00 - [14] - Quote LittleCuteBunny wrote: I like to think about the TANK v.s. TANK scenario in this way... Missiles are about hit and run (great at flanking) Blasters are about stay and deliver (great at ground control) Rails are about observe and hit (great at vehicle control) If anything I would like to see the splash of Large Missile Turrets increase, since it is meant to be a medium ground between Blasters and Rails. Missiles as I see them now are not meant to be the medium ground. This is how I see the current turrets: Blasters: CQC AI Missiles: CQC AV Railguns: Ranged AV Now though, blasters are capable of CQC AV as well (see my above post), and railguns have always been OP at CQC. This just means that missiles are once again outclassed. I think any combination of two of the three following buffs would put missiles in line if blasters and railguns don't get nerfed: straight up damage buff on splash and direct damage, straight up clip size increase, and/or splash radius increase. Again, these buffs should only happen if the blaster and railgun don't get nerfed "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 978	Posted - 2014.04.03 14:09:00 - [15] - Quote Railguns, in my opinion, are not overpowered. At least not enough for me to notice. Damage mods, especially with the nerf to hardeners, are currently too powerful. It is the same thing as the TTK issue with Dropsuits; defense was nerfed while damage that was originally balanced around that defense wasn't changed. This is similar to the build you were using when you attacked the two tanks with your railgun. Glass Cannons are too powerful at the moment, not railguns themselves. Damage Mod + Blaster is just as scary and is actually easier for Armor Tanks to do because of the lower CPU of a blaster compared to a railgun. Jeez, in the video you even laugh that you one shot ADS if you go damage mods... In short: when you nerf the prey but not the predator, the predator is going to have a field day. Missiles are going to be hard to balance. They will kill just about any Madrugar on the field in a couple of seconds but are complete bunk against Gunnlogi. The problem with Rock-Paper-Scissors is that when Paper runs into Rock it is "unfair to Rock" and when Paper runs into Scissors it is "unfair to Paper." The first tank had basically no chance against you while you had no chance against any kind of shield tank. At the moment, I think they are fine. You either kill them instantly or be left in a terrible situation. It is a stupid as hell balance... but it is balance. Saying that Blasters are a counter to Missiles is a very weird way of putting it, yet you seem to stay on that conclusion despite even acknowledging "if you come at this fit in an armor blaster you are going to get owned." That is more your counter, Shields, is coming for a chat more than the blaster themselves. Blaster or railgun doesn't matter providing it is a Shield tank because missiles cannot alpha damage it to death. Your suggestion to buff missiles would just mean you instantly kill any tank. That is the definition of "I am Rock. Nerf Paper. Scissors are fine, l2p." I think if you were to nerf the 30% damage to 15% (so a militia railgun turns into an advanced railgun rather than a prototype railgun) it would be better. Two 30% modifiers, according to this, is 63.9% damage. Two 15% damage mods would be 29.99%. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1983	Posted - 2014.04.03 14:27:00 - [16] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Their spool time needs to increase, and they should have to go through it after each shot. You don't tank, so who the hell are you to tell us how tanking should work? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1983	Posted - 2014.04.03 14:31:00 - [17] - Quote nakaya indigene wrote: here I'm having trouble deciding whether the rail is too powerful or its something else. did missiles 2v1 and failed horribly. what do you guys think about rail guns. You kept doing the same thing over and over and over and over again. It's like trying to get into space by using a really big slingshot. Or like trying to break through a wall with an axe instead of using the unlocked door. You figure out they're working together, yet go against the tougher opponent who you have no advantages over. Why should anybody listen to you when you have demonstrated such stupidity? Rails are OP, yet you make such incredibly dumb decisions when it comes to tank fights? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1983	Posted - 2014.04.03 14:36:00 - [18] - Quote I just finished watching it. lol @ activating everything when you have the total advantage over someone by being behind them. If someone was watching that fight and waited for your shield to stop shimmering, while you were away from your redline, you were dead. I hope they don't use you in PC. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Thumb Green THE STAR BORN 882	Posted - 2014.04.03 14:56:00 - [19] - Quote +1 for ruffling Spkr's feathers. As to the topic at hand, I believe it's damage mods + shields that make the the rail gun OP but only at range or if you get the drop on someone from behind (though the latter can be true for the other turrets). In CQC a blaster tank can run circles around a rail tank and kill it, even if it's a shield tank (I've done it); I'd imagine missiles could do the same(though it'd take longer against a shield tank) but I didn't skill into them so I don't know. Support Orbital Spawns
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1474	Posted - 2014.04.03 14:59:00 - [20] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: +1 for ruffling Spkr's feathers. As to the topic at hand, I believe it's damage mods + shields that make the the rail gun OP but only at range or if you get the drop on someone from behind (though the latter can be true for the other turrets). In CQC a blaster tank can run circles around a rail tank and kill it, even if it's a shield tank (I've done it); I'd imagine missiles could do the same(though it'd take longer against a shield tank) but I didn't skill into them so I don't know. What you said about circling the rail tank is correct in theory, but not in practice. The rail tank must be stupid to just sit there and let you drive circles around them. They only need to drive away in a straight line and you can't do nothing about it. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1983	Posted - 2014.04.03 15:00:00 - [21] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: +1 for ruffling Spkr's feathers. As to the topic at hand, I believe it's damage mods + shields that make the the rail gun OP but only at range or if you get the drop on someone from behind (though the latter can be true for the other turrets). In CQC a blaster tank can run circles around a rail tank and kill it, even if it's a shield tank (I've done it); I'd imagine missiles could do the same(though it'd take longer against a shield tank) but I didn't skill into them so I don't know. Ruffled feathers at such incredible stupidity? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 734	Posted - 2014.04.03 15:11:00 - [22] - Quote Why not reduce railgun clip or whatever you call it, to something like 5 shots? Having 9 shots like in the video gives railguns a lot of firepower and lets them have a long enough stream of shots, even counting the overheating mechanic. Compared with the missiles, whose only effective way to use means you'll be reloading just a second after you started shooting makes for a slightly unequal battle. em ta kool t'nod
Thumb Green THE STAR BORN 882	Posted - 2014.04.03 15:18:00 - [23] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Thumb Green wrote: +1 for ruffling Spkr's feathers. As to the topic at hand, I believe it's damage mods + shields that make the the rail gun OP but only at range or if you get the drop on someone from behind (though the latter can be true for the other turrets). In CQC a blaster tank can run circles around a rail tank and kill it, even if it's a shield tank (I've done it); I'd imagine missiles could do the same(though it'd take longer against a shield tank) but I didn't skill into them so I don't know. What you said about circling the rail tank is correct in theory, but not in practice. The rail tank must be stupid to just sit there and let you drive circles around them. They only need to drive away in a straight line and you can't do nothing about it. I want to say most tankers are stupid but I'll refrain and only say a lot of tankers are stupid. But yes against a smart tanker that recognizes what is about to happen instead of cockily activating the hardener while trying to turn the turret at you, it won't work so swell. But chances are you'll still be at the advantage because you'll be to the rear of him and he'd likely would have activated his hardener while you can wait to activate yours until the turret finally is facing you. Spkr4theDead wrote: Ruffled feathers at such incredible stupidity? And yet it was still smarter than anything you've ever said and that's what really gets you. Also in response to what you said to Cat Merc; he has just as much right to say how tanks should work as you do Mr. Starter fit swarms slaughter me. Support Orbital Spawns
Dengar Skirata the third day Galactic Skyfleet Empire 96	Posted - 2014.04.03 15:52:00 - [24] - Quote If blasters are not getting nerfed, then rail guns shouldn't be either. I still believe that blaster tanks and combat rifles are the most OP things in the game at the moment. Just my opinion though. I like the idea of tank battles with both blasters and rails playing a role, but as it stands now, blasters are able to easily DESTROY infantry. If rails can prevent this destruction from happening, I'm all for it. // Author of the Dust Spec Ops Tactics Handbook // Templis Dragonaur // Caldari Loyalist // MAG Veteran (RAVEN)
CPL Bloodstone Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 272	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:01:00 - [25] - Quote Why not put a visual flash that lasts for .2 seconds. temporarily blinds you. It would balance the gun without changing the turret at all. If you find yourself in a fair fight, "Your tactics SUCK!"
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 4986	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:40:00 - [26] - Quote nakaya indigene wrote: here I'm having trouble deciding whether the rail is too powerful or its something else. did missiles 2v1 and failed horribly. what do you guys think about rail guns. The only reason Railguns are overpowered is because they get massive alpha damage and great rate of fire. You can't have both in one weapon. Look at how bad the pre-1.8 Rail Rifle was. A Railgun should do massive damage at long range, but it can't also do that while being able to re-fire 1.5 seconds after the first shot. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
nakaya indigene 0uter.Heaven 226	Posted - 2014.04.03 19:55:00 - [27] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: nakaya indigene wrote: here I'm having trouble deciding whether the rail is too powerful or its something else. did missiles 2v1 and failed horribly. what do you guys think about rail guns. You kept doing the same thing over and over and over and over again. It's like trying to get into space by using a really big slingshot. Or like trying to break through a wall with an axe instead of using the unlocked door. You figure out they're working together, yet go against the tougher opponent who you have no advantages over. Why should anybody listen to you when you have demonstrated such stupidity? Rails are OP, yet you make such incredibly dumb decisions when it comes to tank fights? yep. I rely on my team mates alot in a fight when it comes to intel. diddnt have any in the video so I did real bad. Im a **** tanker without support. The Jove espier --- my youtube --> NakaNakaNaka
nakaya indigene 0uter.Heaven 226	Posted - 2014.04.03 20:29:00 - [28] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Their spool time needs to increase, and they should have to go through it after each shot. You don't tank, so who the hell are you to tell us how tanking should work? its cool man. this is just an opinion thread for anyone to chime. besides we are getting to the point to where we all have enough SP to start getting more than just 1 type of load out. a+öa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa++Gùë-öGùëa++a+öa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë NakaNakaNaka


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