Shotgunning with no SP is easier too, the spread is wider and more forgiving with less SP invested

90% of the reason I haven't skilled into shotguns. I saw that and was like "This is supposed to be a bonus?"

Your scout fit is all wrong.

plus, who uses a G/1?

Fine, I give in. This game was too frustrating to play the way I want to anymore so I skilled into scouts.

And what do you know, I had fun. A LOT of fun.
I mean, ugh, how to explain this.

We all want Dust to be balanced, but we all want it to be fun. Pre-1.8 it took serious dedication and a lot of endurance to play a scout...and now I sort of know how you feel. To be killed by combat rifles or HMGs while you're sprinting away, to sacrifice HP modules for stealth, but then to be scanned anyways.

And finally, scouts are fun, and you don't want that to go away...I get it.
Playing as a scout today I never once got annoyed when I died. I would get two-shotted in the back from a scout just like in my logi suit, but it didn't matter. Why? Because I knew he had a better suit, or was faster, or was able to see me despite the fact that I was also playing a scout. It seemed like the only time I ever died was from another scout.
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Here's some screenshots I got from today. I only played 4 matches, but these were my best two, both of them I was playing solo:
28/7 http://imgur.com/C3vsOGG (I recorded this match, will upload soon)
31/1 http://imgur.com/wPhq9fA

Also, here's the fitting (To fit the ACR I just removed the SMG and used a nanohive instead of injector):
http://imgur.com/zdI33Ax

Scout G/1
2 complex extenders
1 basic plate, 1 enhanced range, 1 enhanced kin cat
Standard Shotgun (Dren), Standard SMG (Syndicate)
Standard Cloak, MLT Injector

Isk cost was 23k for shotgun fit, 42k for ACR fit
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I have level 3 scout, and no skills in either shotguns or SMGs (hence why I'm using blueprints). I do however have Combat rifles to prof 4, so the ACR is deadly in my hands. I also have dampening to 5, precision to 3, and range to 3.

Yeah I like running my other suits, but why even bother right now? Seriously, why use my 150k specialized logi suit or 120k heavy when I can just run a 23k scout with std/adv gear and get better scores. You die just the same in a logi suit, a heavy suit, or a scout, so I just don't see any reason why I should use anything else right now.

I mean, if I want to run those suits I have to stay in a squad, and use teamwork, and use my eyes...heck I'm even supposed to have another scout in my squad in order to detect the enemy scouts. But as a scout I can play solo and rely on myself, and just use my passive scans on my radar to tell me where the enemy is. It's so much easier as a scout, trust me.

So come on you guys, let's all skill into scouts and have fun killing each other instead of QQing about them. Scout 514!
Just do it, come on, let's all be scrubs :D

Do I need to brick tank it more?
How about a Caldari scout with over 400 shields?

So come on you guys, let's all skill into scouts and have fun killing each other instead of QQing about them. Scout 514!
Just do it, come on, let's all be scrubs :D

Your scout fit is all wrong.

plus, who uses a G/1?

1/10. go home and try again.

hahaha.... cotsy.. give it up man.

I assume you think you and all other scouts deserve your crutch as well?

You typical tank denier mentality. You think you deserve easy mode.

In an objective view, cloaks are not required and are rewarding poor gameplay. In a week no one has given me 5 arguments or justifications for a cloak. The facts are it rewards poor gameplay, and scouts who are bad should stay bad. Scouts do not want to return to their struggle (for most) but thats what the class is, high risk (fragile suit, speed) and high reward. Not low risk, high reward with no drawbacks.

You would think players wouldn't be so selfish but they are just chasing any advantage they can get and defending anything they can to keep it that way.

**some stuff....*
Scout 514!
Just do it, come on, let's all be scrubs :D

I forgot this.



You don't speak for me, newbro scout. I'd give up the cloak, my light weapon and 2 module slots to get the FOTM chumps out of here.

I prefer the scout motto be: get skill, or get lost.

Not: Get cloak, get shotgun.... dominate. Rather these guys do their sissy running heavy suits and insta-hopping out of LAV's....

Hope you are not a scrub, I seriously do. I've liked your posts for a while....

''Not: Get cloak, get shotgun.... dominate. ''
This is SO UNTRUE anyways, might work vs scrubs,but unless you have skill, cloak + SG wont make you win vs good players....

But i run SMG;s on my scouts and i've only been killed twice by a bro Dagger from Opus.
THATS ALL.
No other SG + cloak bro has been able to drop me more than twice in a same game.
I KNOW there are good scouts that can accomplish this, but not FOTM chaser scrub-scouts...
.[/b]

This is not some type of attempt to say people shouldn't use cloaked shotgun playstyle.

However given the lack of good players on the field, and the ease with which one can stack HP, cloak, stealth and speed on a Gallente, and get a shot off so quickly while still invisible.... I do feel that for the most part this tactic dominates in a lot of matches. This combo (i.e. brick, cloak, shotgun, speed) *IS* EZ mode in my book at the moment.

Of course skilled opponents will counter, especially those that have been playing hard mode for months like scouts...

If we disagree, I'm cool with that.

This is not a tirade against shotgun cloaked scouts or some type of attempt to say people shouldn't use cloaked shotgun playstyle.

However given the lack of good players on the field, and the ease with which one can stack HP, cloak, stealth and speed on a Gallente, and get a shot off so quickly while still invisible.... I do feel that for the most part this tactic dominates in a lot of matches. This combo *IS* EZ mode in my book at the moment.

Of course skilled opponents will counter, especially those that have been playing hard mode for months like scouts...

If we disagree, I'm cool with that.

Im sorry if i sounded a little aggressive, English not being my main language difficults communication between me and other players because sometimes i say stuff incorrectly and sound rude, etc...

Overall,what i tried to say is, everyone can play as a scout. For me, it will always be Obvious who is a TRUE scout or a random SCRUB , like Shays admitted being himself. (which i doubt is true, but this thread of his makes me wonder)

You dont speak for me Mr.M.Monk.

I love killing scoutcrubs....
SPECIALLY when after a good 2-5 deaths they just appear with a Heavy suit. Hilarious....

It's just the medium frame UP compared to scouts heavies and commando. It takes from 3 to 6 shots of shotgun to kill a heavy: by the time they have all the time tu turn around and mill you with an HMG.
Same goes for cloaked caldari: anyone can kill you with ease, considering the militia standard weapon is an AR.

Imo, people just do everything wrong, then complain: they heard RR is OP, but still use it when the whole enemy team is shield tanking.

That said, cloak should be nerfed a bit, imo, in cloaking time. It's just a bit too much at ADV - PRO.

''It's just the medium frame UP compared to scouts heavies and commando.''
MEd frrames have been the LEADING suit since the creation of dust. You have 1 update where all frames are equal and you people cry about it....
Unbelievable Selfishness

Cloaking time being a little too long? I actually agree with you.
Numbers should be 20-40-60 from STD to proto.

So you know, Scouts are specialized role. So are heavies. Both sacrifice so much in order to excel at something. (Scouts HP in order to have higher speeds and better E-war equipment {At least true and pro scouts, tanked scouts are just ligh Assaults trying to take advantage of the cloak,but not true scoutsl} and heavies sacrifice speed and any kind of radar advantage to have massive HP and the ability to use Heavy weapons {even if this doesn't mean much ATM})

Logis are dedicated for equipment usage and lots of slots to adapt your suit to anything.
And med frame Assaults are the overall balanced Offensive choices, with the ability to do a little of everything without being the best at anything.

Now the Assault and LOGIS USED to be the best suits out there, but now they are being toppled by better balanced (For their purposes) suits, and the ''jack of all trades'' feeling is not enough anymore.
This is because med frames got used to being superior.

Seeing a 300HP scout 50+mts away and shooting at him with ANY light weapon was easy.
Killing a 500HP commando that couldnt turn and had crappy bonuses was easy
Killing a 1000- HP heavy with a crappy HMG that hit nothing and had low damage was easy.
BUT not anymore.

If people can do with STD BPO and go 20-1 in a random game, im pretty sure dedicated med frame users could still do great,if they dedicated more time to practicing instead of QQing here in the forums....

BTW for anyone who's actually wondering how I really feel...

Until we get some sort of change to cloaked scouts, I will no longer be running logistics.

Why?
Well pretty much because the balancing factors of cloaks are not working in the game as of right now, and I'm not going to lose millions of isk against broken mechanics that SHOULD be working. What are these? Let me make a list:

1. Sound when decloaking.
There is supposed to be a sound when you decloak that should be audible to anyone in the area. This is to give players the time to react against a scout if they decloak too close to someone. I have never heard this sound except for when I myself am decloaking.

2. Not being able to fire when cloaked.
Technically you can't do this, but there is currently no delay from the time you decloak to the time you switch to your weapon. If you switch to your weapon while cloaked you should have to wait for the cloak animation to finish before you can start firing.

3. Fitting requirements that make you sacrifice HP intensive modules for the cloak.
I'm not sure why CCP did this but they increased the reduction of cloaks from 10 to 15% per level for scouts at the last minute (probably so that newer players could still use them). Right now you can fit a cloak and stack all sorts of modules on without having to sacrifice much at all. This makes it so that scouts can have a ton of HP and a cloak at the same time, instead of sacrificing HP survival for the ability to be sneaky.
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These 3 balancing factors, along with the actually working properties (can't do anything while cloaked, cloak animation, flash of light when cloaking, 25% dampening while cloaked, etc) PROVE that the cloaks were designed as a defensive equipment with the ability to still be offensive as long as you're sneaky about it.

Which means that we can assume cloaks were supposed to be meant to counter a lot of the disadvantages scouts had in 1.7. Scouts died often by just trying to run across the street, or when trying to run away. They were picked off by snipers easily and were too easy to hit my HMS when trying to flank into position. They were even scanned by players across the map who made it easy for their squad members to track scouts down.

But now scouts can be the ultimate frontline fighter with large pools of HP, the ability to see everyone and anyone (besides other scouts) AND make sure that no one can find them.

So many people have told me that I need to use my eyes, and that I need to squad up with other scouts now...
But then why don't scouts have to use their eyes? And why do I need a scout in my squad just to counter other scouts?

That's like people saying I need to carry AV with me all the time in case a tank shows up, and that I should run with a tanker to counter other tanks. This is what cloaked scouts feel like to me and yet no one else seems to feel this way.

Except that with tanks I can hide in a building from them, and choose not to engage them if I don't want to. But scouts can and will always find me unless I run e-war modules. Even then I'm screwed because at that point sure I can see them, but I can never engage them because then they have more health and speed than I do.
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Honestly, if I detect a cloaked scout and see him running up on me, it shouldn't take 10 seconds of direct fire for me to kill him as he strafes back and forth. I use my eyes, modules and keep my backside checked, yet all it does it let me know how I'm going to die instead of preventing anything.

I played with you today, you were good you make the same argument as everyone does. You had fun playing, man scouts are so much easier to dominate with, you love cloaks... I understand, i like my crutch too but don't you feel that while you have pumped no SP into scouts or used no real tactics but run and gun the rewards were much too high?

Can't you see that the skill, strategy, decision making, being patient and selective with targets is gone, and replaced by a run and gun easy mode? Cloaks are a crutch used to cover mistakes, terrible mistakes, that scouts use to be punished for, such as: lack of awareness when hacking/climbing, charging at foes in a fragile suit, running across large open spaces, camping, hiding in nano hives.. It also doesn't help the game has frame rate issues, falling red dust which scares ya, lag, terrible lighting in some cases, and of course situations where seeing him is hard enough due to backgrounds hue.

You ran a cheap suit and dominated, i saw you, you're a good player so i am not bashing you.. But are you sure that you should have been rewarded as you were. Considering you have no SP, not running elite suits, nor using elite tactics (i saw, i was there).

The QQ is not about scouts, they got a boost in 1.8 without cloaks.. The problem is the crutch, the cloak. It's too much defensively and offensively, scouts do not need it and it just rewards poor play