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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2079
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Think about this one...
1. LOOK AT THIS PICTURE The purple is where an ADS can be where a tank can't shoot it. It's actually more than the picture shows, because the ADS can also be above and behind the tank.
2. ADS pilots complain that they can't engage a tank that's in the red line. Which is isn't true, as missiles travel 200m. Now before you complain that its almost impossible to hit anything at 200m, how about you just HTFU and git gud, okay?
3. Ambush doesn't have a redline.
4. When a tank is sitting in the redline, an ADS can't hover over the tank long enough to kill it. But when a tank is out of the redline, a tank can't get reach an ADS because the ADS has free space. An ADS can float 1m above a tank and the tank can't do anything about it.
So, ADSes complaining they can't engage tanks in the redline have it turned completely in their favor when the tank is out of the redline. Thus balance. And before any ADS pilots come in here and complain about something they are delusional about, remember a few things: a) you didn't read and think about the very post you're at the end of. b) You don't tank, so don't assume that ADSes can be shot down as easy as we make it look c) Go back and look at that picture, and tell me how it's fair that you have that much safe zone (and more) and think that's balanced when the only AV in the game that's practical for an ADS is Railgun. d) you're just as, if not more, OP than tanks. ADS spam is much worse than tank spam. Thank god we don't have Militia ADSes.
I ain't got time for dat sh!t
At least I'm not King ThunderBolt
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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2079
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Also, FGs are not a counter to ADSes, as they are 100% situational and still take 2 or more to bring down an ADS before it can just fly away.
And ADS pilots have the option to bail on their dead ship when their HP reaches 0, or even make it to their destination via crash landing. How lucky is that?
I ain't got time for dat sh!t
At least I'm not King ThunderBolt
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thomas mak
77
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
tank is a tank, it builded to distroy troops, not shot a fight like this 'in real like a helicopter can distroy a tank with one single missile but tank have never shot down a helicopter'
Give me back my working ADS
Give me back ml skill-needed tank battles
Give me back those things you showed us before
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Zirzo Valcyn
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
383
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
as a pilot i will agree. i think dropship vs tank its in a good spot right now.
u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
forum warrior .189
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Zirzo Valcyn
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
383
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
thomas mak wrote:tank is a tank, it builded to distroy troops, not shot a fight like this 'in real like a helicopter can distroy a tank with one single missile but tank have never shot down a helicopter' where do you get your source saying that a tank has never shot down a chopper
u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
forum warrior .189
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Alena Ventrallis
PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn
1100
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
The problem wasn't range, it was elevation. If they had kept the range and lowered elevation, then things would have been more balanced.
Also, try seeing anything higher than 100m in an ADS, let alone hitting it.
Best PVE idea I've seen.
Fixed link.
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
723
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
8213 wrote:Think about this one... 1. LOOK AT THIS PICTURE The purple is where an ADS can be where a tank can't shoot it. It's actually more than the picture shows, because the ADS can also be above and behind the tank. 2. ADS pilots complain that they can't engage a tank that's in the red line. Which is isn't true, as missiles travel 200m. Now before you complain that its almost impossible to hit anything at 200m, how about you just HTFU and git gud, okay? 3. Ambush doesn't have a redline. 4. When a tank is sitting in the redline, an ADS can't hover over the tank long enough to kill it. But when a tank is out of the redline, a tank can't get reach an ADS because the ADS has free space. An ADS can float 1m above a tank and the tank can't do anything about it. So, ADSes complaining they can't engage tanks in the redline have it turned completely in their favor when the tank is out of the redline. Thus balance. And before any ADS pilots come in here and complain about something they are delusional about, remember a few things: a) you didn't read and think about the very post you're at the end of. b) You don't tank, so don't assume that ADSes can be shot down as easy as we make it look c) Go back and look at that picture, and tell me how it's fair that you have that much safe zone (and more) and think that's balanced when the only AV in the game that's practical for an ADS is Railgun. d) you're just as, if not more, OP than tanks. ADS spam is much worse than tank spam. Thank god we don't have Militia ADSes.
ADS players are the worst players in dust 514 they cry over everything that can hurt them . where there's a counter for ADS you see them no stop cry on and on over it ! if the game was there way it would be world of drop ships or go home .
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2351
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Add Swarm Launcher Turrets. Range 300m Elevation: 90-¦
Sorted
As for the OP stop whining you don't have your crutch anymore. With the Hardener Nerfs a Forge Gun is enough to deal with 80% of Assault Dropship Pilots. Get over it.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2082
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem wasn't range, it was elevation. If they had kept the range and lowered elevation, then things would have been more balanced.
Also, try seeing anything higher than 100m in an ADS, let alone hitting it.
Try seeing anything and hitting anything at 100m with a rail gun, especially if its moving. You're missiles have splash, if we miss you in the air, the shot keeps going and you take 0 damage. See section (b) at the end of my post.
I ain't got time for dat sh!t
At least I'm not King ThunderBolt
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad.
651
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zirzo Valcyn wrote:thomas mak wrote:tank is a tank, it builded to distroy troops, not shot a fight like this 'in real like a helicopter can distroy a tank with one single missile but tank have never shot down a helicopter' where do you get your source saying that a tank has never shot down a chopper
The George bush encyclopedia of idiocy and delusion.
Ads are op folks it's the conclusion we always cone back to and will always come back to until all av can solo vehicles as the gaming gods intended.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2351
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Posted - 2014.04.02 10:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
8213 wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The problem wasn't range, it was elevation. If they had kept the range and lowered elevation, then things would have been more balanced.
Also, try seeing anything higher than 100m in an ADS, let alone hitting it. Try seeing anything and hitting anything at 100m with a rail gun, especially if its moving. You're missiles have splash, if we miss you in the air, the shot keeps going and you take 0 damage. See section (b) at the end of my post.
It really is that easy though, I did it all the time.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
964
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mr. Tanker here:
I think it is fair. Their damage, even with 3 missiles is high but not enough to instantly kill a tank that had a good defense. They can push me away but not really kill me if I don't get caught in a bad situation. Some maps are particularly nasty because I can't get roof over but it isn't the worst things ever.
Had a match yesterday with a good ADS pilot shooting at me. He only managed to get me because a blaster tank showed up at a bad time. My only gripe is that the turret rotation speed seems to be bugged; I am getting next to no benefit out of the skill. If I could have tracked him he would have been dead because, like what happened to me, he was overconfident in his ability to not die and was hovering over the point stationary.
So I have little complaints I guess, aside from ADS and decent turrets being too prohibitively expensive.
"People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
1832
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
The math in your picture is wrong for a 300 unit hypotenuse, This does not validate or invalidate any of your points but is something you may wish to address as it has distorted your diagram throwing the scale off. The result is your area of engagement cross section is not scaled properly
Everything Dropship youtube channel
my Community Spotlight
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Beld Errmon
1514
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
8213 wrote:Think about this one... 1. LOOK AT THIS PICTURE The purple is where an ADS can be where a tank can't shoot it. It's actually more than the picture shows, because the ADS can also be above and behind the tank. 2. ADS pilots complain that they can't engage a tank that's in the red line. Which is isn't true, as missiles travel 200m. Now before you complain that its almost impossible to hit anything at 200m, how about you just HTFU and git gud, okay? 3. Ambush doesn't have a redline. 4. When a tank is sitting in the redline, an ADS can't hover over the tank long enough to kill it. But when a tank is out of the redline, a tank can't get reach an ADS because the ADS has free space. An ADS can float 1m above a tank and the tank can't do anything about it. So, ADSes complaining they can't engage tanks in the redline have it turned completely in their favor when the tank is out of the redline. Thus balance. And before any ADS pilots come in here and complain about something they are delusional about, remember a few things: a) you didn't read and think about the very post you're at the end of. b) You don't tank, so don't assume that ADSes can be shot down as easy as we make it look c) Go back and look at that picture, and tell me how it's fair that you have that much safe zone (and more) and think that's balanced when the only AV in the game that's practical for an ADS is Railgun. d) you're just as, if not more, OP than tanks. ADS spam is much worse than tank spam. Thank god we don't have Militia ADSes.
While i'd prefer not to play the person, you are a scrub with a bee up your butt about one of the most fragile most expensive and most difficult vehicles to run in the game, and i've seen the way you play when there is an ADS around, you and your squad mates pull out railtanks and camp from the back off the map until its dead, now you're upset you can only be a short ranged redline railscrub.
The level of ignorance you display is absolutely astounding, you actually think its a viable tactic for an ADS to engage a tank in its redline, while its possible to damage a tank in the redline, it can back up to its own redline within the redline and be completely untouchable, so your point is ridiculous.
Yes an ADS can harass and kill a tank outside of the redline, but a good tanker with half a brain can counter this or mitigate the problem, I drive tanks as well as pilot ADS and believe me i've suckered in and killed a lot of ADS just by doing the old topgun manuver (drive forward for a while then suddenly reverse with the injector on) so back to your dribble, as i said i drive tanks and its **** easy to destroy ADS, some unfortunate warraven flew past my alts militia soma and found out the hardway what a blaster can do to one at 60m.
Perhaps instead of making stupid claims about ADS pilots not being able to tank you should get your downy arse into an ADS and walk a few miles in our shoes, you'll soon see its not easy to stay alive while being useful and not wasting a spot on your team.
PS **** off furry you're a one trick rail pony has been.
Rise and rise again until lambs become lions.
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
725
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Beld Errmon
Reported'
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Beld Errmon
1515
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
hah! dirty grass, or as we say in my culture, dog.
Rise and rise again until lambs become lions.
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
725
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
i think the best way to fix this mess is to let rail guns hit up to 450 or 500 and remove the stacking skill of fire rate and ammo on ADS.
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
725
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:hah! dirty grass, or as we say in my culture, dog. keep this up and I dont think you or your alts will be on the forums anymore do to a IP ban
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Beld Errmon
1515
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
what mess? seriously rail tanks pwn ADS, you just can't do it from the redline (on most maps) anymore.
And I seriously doubt that furry, I've said nothing that is worthy of a ban, not compared to your comments on a certain subject in the locker room, got a new word for ya bub, hypocrite I'll be surprised if you don't need to look that one up.
Rise and rise again until lambs become lions.
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Mauren NOON
The Exemplars Top Men.
304
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:8213 wrote:Think about this one... 1. LOOK AT THIS PICTURE The purple is where an ADS can be where a tank can't shoot it. It's actually more than the picture shows, because the ADS can also be above and behind the tank. 2. ADS pilots complain that they can't engage a tank that's in the red line. Which is isn't true, as missiles travel 200m. Now before you complain that its almost impossible to hit anything at 200m, how about you just HTFU and git gud, okay? 3. Ambush doesn't have a redline. 4. When a tank is sitting in the redline, an ADS can't hover over the tank long enough to kill it. But when a tank is out of the redline, a tank can't get reach an ADS because the ADS has free space. An ADS can float 1m above a tank and the tank can't do anything about it. So, ADSes complaining they can't engage tanks in the redline have it turned completely in their favor when the tank is out of the redline. Thus balance. And before any ADS pilots come in here and complain about something they are delusional about, remember a few things: a) you didn't read and think about the very post you're at the end of. b) You don't tank, so don't assume that ADSes can be shot down as easy as we make it look c) Go back and look at that picture, and tell me how it's fair that you have that much safe zone (and more) and think that's balanced when the only AV in the game that's practical for an ADS is Railgun. d) you're just as, if not more, OP than tanks. ADS spam is much worse than tank spam. Thank god we don't have Militia ADSes. ADS players are the worst players in dust 514 they cry over everything that can hurt them . where there's a counter for ADS you see them no stop cry on and on over it ! if the game was there way it would be world of drop ships or go home . I love how you say Pilots just whine about everything when cry baby tankers crying about how OP AV was, made AV as crappy as it is right now all because tankers complain how 1 person should not be able to take out a tank. Makes sense.....
Scr and commando enthusiast.
A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life...
"The only thing to fear is fear itself"
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2353
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Posted - 2014.04.02 11:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:i think the best way to fix this mess is to let rail guns hit up to 450 or 500 and remove the stacking skill of fire rate and ammo on ADS.
So completly screw over ADS pilots, got it. I guess we should also lower the flight ceiling to 20m
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
725
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:what mess? seriously rail tanks pwn ADS, you just can't do it from the redline (on most maps) anymore.
And I seriously doubt that furry, I've said nothing that is worthy of a ban, not compared to your comments on a certain subject in the locker room, got a new word for ya bub, hypocrite I'll be surprised if you don't need to look that one up.
yes and with out rail guns ADS pwns everything !
fair in my book that the ADS has a counter to it other then a FG that can be killed by small arms fire or one hit by a ADS on top of all that using FG on a ADS is like trying to play duck hunt with a charge up hand gun and the TV is moving as well and thats not factoring in the speed of the ASD the TA of the round and the fact when using the FG you have to run a Heavy suit with cost more and the only good FG,s to use on a ADS is costs alot and the fact the ADS can be anywhere at any time as it can fly ! your looking at most ADS with some skill can rack up 20-0 in a ambush on avg. that and ADS lv for fire rate stacks on to it gunners making it more OP and i can go on and on over all the things that make ADS OP now that rail gun range has been nerfed to a range in with a ADS can over take it with speed or just flying up.
YOU guys i say must be the most lucky roll in game seeing how you can be In the battle zone and kill at will and be safe ! and only have to watch out for FG,s and only if they can see or hit you and that only if they have a FG that can kill you !
see im not against you guys im for you i mean Wow all the stuff AV has to go tho to get to just land a hit on you only have 1 AV out there that can kill you and its so EZ to kill them befor they can even see you.
i just hope CCP don't clip your wings anytime soon im loving this ONE SIDED GAME ROLL YOU FLYING HERE !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
725
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:i think the best way to fix this mess is to let rail guns hit up to 450 or 500 and remove the stacking skill of fire rate and ammo on ADS.
So completly screw over ADS pilots, got it. I guess we should also lower the flight ceiling to 20m
ya CCP did it be for the last time drop ships where OP why not
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4796
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
I noticed your diagram provides no indication of how small a portion of that "huge safe zone" is actually within the range of the weapons it carries.
Yes, there's a massive space where the ADS can be safe, but there's ALSO an almost-as-massive space where the HAV is just as safe from the ADS. |
BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
725
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:I noticed your diagram provides no indication of how small a portion of that "huge safe zone" is actually within the range of the weapons it carries.
Yes, there's a massive space where the ADS can be safe, but there's ALSO an almost-as-massive space where the HAV is just as safe from the ADS.
your forgetting a ADS can fly in to them and still kill more so with gunners that can get up to 100% fire rate !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
725
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mauren NOON wrote:BAD FURRY wrote:8213 wrote:Think about this one... 1. LOOK AT THIS PICTURE The purple is where an ADS can be where a tank can't shoot it. It's actually more than the picture shows, because the ADS can also be above and behind the tank. 2. ADS pilots complain that they can't engage a tank that's in the red line. Which is isn't true, as missiles travel 200m. Now before you complain that its almost impossible to hit anything at 200m, how about you just HTFU and git gud, okay? 3. Ambush doesn't have a redline. 4. When a tank is sitting in the redline, an ADS can't hover over the tank long enough to kill it. But when a tank is out of the redline, a tank can't get reach an ADS because the ADS has free space. An ADS can float 1m above a tank and the tank can't do anything about it. So, ADSes complaining they can't engage tanks in the redline have it turned completely in their favor when the tank is out of the redline. Thus balance. And before any ADS pilots come in here and complain about something they are delusional about, remember a few things: a) you didn't read and think about the very post you're at the end of. b) You don't tank, so don't assume that ADSes can be shot down as easy as we make it look c) Go back and look at that picture, and tell me how it's fair that you have that much safe zone (and more) and think that's balanced when the only AV in the game that's practical for an ADS is Railgun. d) you're just as, if not more, OP than tanks. ADS spam is much worse than tank spam. Thank god we don't have Militia ADSes. ADS players are the worst players in dust 514 they cry over everything that can hurt them . where there's a counter for ADS you see them no stop cry on and on over it ! if the game was there way it would be world of drop ships or go home . I love how you say Pilots just whine about everything when cry baby tankers crying about how OP AV was, made AV as crappy as it is right now all because tankers complain how 1 person should not be able to take out a tank. Makes sense.....
Tanks dont Fly ! that's why its ez to kill them when you see them unlike a FLYING DROP SHIP that can just fly up or over stuff to get away a tank drives on the ground .
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1724
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:8213 wrote:The purple is where an ADS can be where a tank can't shoot it The math in your picture is wrong for a 300 unit hypotenuse, This does not validate or invalidate any of your points but is something you may wish to address as it has distorted your diagram throwing the scale off. The result is your area of engagement cross section is not scaled correctly. This means that the purple area as you display is wrong by a quite significant percentage and the above quote is erroneous. You engagement cross section is about 36% too Small. This is a significant error. I'm not disputing or agreeing with the points in your OP, just the diagram as it is presented.
Hey, hey, hey. Let's not bring anybody's hypotenuses into this.
Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4798
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
BAD FURRY wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:I noticed your diagram provides no indication of how small a portion of that "huge safe zone" is actually within the range of the weapons it carries.
Yes, there's a massive space where the ADS can be safe, but there's ALSO an almost-as-massive space where the HAV is just as safe from the ADS. your forgetting a ADS can fly in to them and still kill more so with gunners that can get up to 100% fire rate ! No I'm not.
But you seem to be forgetting that even mediocre HAV fits have better eHP than almost every ADS out there, which balances out the DPS advantage.
I'm not saying that either HAV or ADS has an advantage over the other. Any advantage EITHER vehicle has is situational and at least in part down to the relative skill levels of the vehicle pilots. The point I was making is that pointing out how "safe" an enemy is from you when they're not in a position to be capable of attacking you is kind of a meaningless safety, and what SHOULD be compared is the space in which the enemy is both safe AND able to attack you. It doesn't matter than a clone with a Combat Rifle is safe from a Shotgunner at 400m distance, because he can't do anything at that range either. It matters that he's safe at 30m where he can do damage. It doesn't matter that an ADS is safe outside of the range of their own weapon, that part of the "safe zone" should be ignored, or at least labeled as a MUTUAL safe zone. |
Beld Errmon
1520
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 12:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
lol gunners on an ADS, your ignorance of the subject is showing BAD furry.
Rise and rise again until lambs become lions.
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buzzzzzzz killllllllll
TRA1LBLAZERS
399
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Posted - 2014.04.02 12:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
8213 wrote:Also, FGs are not a counter to ADSes, as they are 100% situational and still take 2 or more to bring down an ADS before it can just fly away.
And ADS pilots have the option to bail on their dead ship when their HP reaches 0, or even make it to their destination via crash landing. How lucky is that?
calling bs on this, now that hardeners are nerfed if an ads sticks around it gets wrecked by a fg. i have prof 2 fg's, and i killed 3 ads's in one game yesterday, losing only 1 advanced fitting which cost less than 30k. however, they do need to fix the bailing, because it allows the pilot to never die (my 1 death was the pilot bailing with a proto logi and killing me while i had half health left from his missiles)
Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!
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