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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
859
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Posted - 2014.03.31 08:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Though this seems to be a symptom of tiers TBH, but I feel like tiercide is far away, so at least reduce prices for now CCP should remove all basic-proto suits and add proto suits at level 1 of their related skills. Skilling up only increases the effectiveness of the suit. This fixes NPE This fixes HP disparities This makes balancing a bucketloadofmonkeys easier And makes the game tons funner
I think we should get of the current tier system altogether. Tiers are either to weak for the ISK or way to powerful. Balancing the current tiers is a hell of a task. And I don't see the need for tiers... |
IG8T8
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
16
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Posted - 2014.03.31 08:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:I run solo and still don't see what's the problem. I make ISK at the same rate as before. I don't have such problems, but you can't deny the battlefield isn't more dangerous than ever. **** happens without you having a fighting chance. Before the only time you don't have a fighting chance is when there's a mass of troops trying to kill you, but those are easy to detect because, well, they're a mass of troops.
run bpo (templar/militia) and still have +kdr, ~11k suit if i bought it with isk
actually getting killed by heavies scouts and even commandos is pretty cool, rather than being permascanned and getting blindsided by logislayers or pinned down by tanks. |
IG8T8
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
16
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Posted - 2014.03.31 08:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
dp |
Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
116
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Posted - 2014.03.31 08:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
In DNS alliance where control of PC and PFC is on their battleplans...but cares about the new players and the ISK they lose.
Give me a break dude. Stop hiding your opinions behind "I care about the new players" false front.
Saying what's on people's minds
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Spartykins
NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs
55
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Posted - 2014.03.31 09:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
People end up dying a lot because of protostompers, right? People protostomp because they want to pad their KDR, right?
So, before we start swinging the nerf/buff bat around, wouldn't an easier solution be to introduce an "ISK Efficiency" stat or something in the place of KDR?
(Insert witty phrase here)
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bamboo x
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
552
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Posted - 2014.03.31 09:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
if we're going to dredge this up
why not say it's bullshit they got rid of BPOs
B.D. Wong AKA Dr. Wu returns to Jurassic Park sequel
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2100
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Posted - 2014.03.31 10:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
I call bs. Well, if you play well.
I doubt mediums can do well, but lights and heavies can.
Actually, now that I think about it, I do well with my starter medic, so I don't know if I should believe you or not.
Get, um, what's the word? Grub? Green? Oh, yeah! Get good. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2337
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Posted - 2014.03.31 10:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cinnamon267 wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Though this seems to be a symptom of tiers TBH, but I feel like tiercide is far away, so at least reduce prices for now CCP should remove all basic-proto suits and add proto suits at level 1 of their related skills. Skilling up only increases the effectiveness of the suit. This fixes NPE This fixes HP disparities This makes balancing a bucketloadofmonkeys easier And makes the game tons funner I really like this idea, actually. You have a "basic" suit that upgrades as you dump more SP into it. Level 3 gets you more CPU/PG and more slots to work with. But, an issue arises. What does that suit cost? Is it super cheap, or super expensive all the time? Some people have proto gear but choose to run standard/ADV because it's cheaper. What happens then
Affordable, your modules would make/break the suit and also make or break bank.
For the Federation!
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
7923
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Posted - 2014.03.31 11:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Krixus Flux wrote:In DNS alliance where control of PC and PFC is on their battleplans...but cares about the new players and the ISK they lose.
Give me a break dude. Stop hiding your opinions behind "I care about the new players" false front. I wasn't part of the decision to join DNS alliance.
I'm with my corp, doesn't mean I support our alliance choice.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
7923
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Posted - 2014.03.31 11:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:I call bs. Well, if you play well.
I doubt mediums can do well, but lights and heavies can.
Actually, now that I think about it, I do well with my starter medic, so I don't know if I should believe you or not.
Get, um, what's the word? Grub? Green? Oh, yeah! Get good. You might want to check that I explicitly said I am more than capable of making ISK. And no, that doesn't include PC.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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Outer Raven
WarRavens League of Infamy
206
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Posted - 2014.03.31 18:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
What we need is for the Player Market to open the **** up. When players can supplement their battle earnings with the ability to sell salvaged items isk will flow more freely and FW will become extremely relevant.
I feel that if we continue to change prices now once the PM opens up CCP may do a price adjustment on all items to make the new market relevant an in line with EVE. And if the Dust community gets too use to lower prices a higher adjustment could bite a lot of people in the a##.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
382
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Posted - 2014.03.31 18:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Quit splitting the pool of "ISK Destroyed" among the whole team. Add more rewards for WP earned. Players with <100 WP only get paid for time in the match.
Doesn't that just punish new players more? I gave up my advanced suits because I couldn't afford them. I'd rather have 5 basic suits.
Because, that's why.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
382
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Posted - 2014.03.31 18:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:Cyzad4 wrote:Rynoceros wrote:Quit splitting the pool of "ISK Destroyed" among the whole team. Add more rewards for WP earned. Players with <100 WP only get paid for time in the match. So making NPE worse is your answer? Players with <100 WP are most likely, and should be, only using MLT and Starter Fits. They need to learn efficiency and pay-for-performance at an early stage. NPE is going to suck until they get PvE. Period.
Yeah, we all know the best way to teach someone a new skill is to beat them with a stick repeatedly.
Because, that's why.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
382
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
Spartykins wrote:People end up dying a lot because of protostompers, right? People protostomp because they want to pad their KDR, right?
So, before we start swinging the nerf/buff bat around, wouldn't an easier solution be to introduce an "ISK Efficiency" stat or something in the place of KDR?
It would be pretty cool to have that stat no matter what, but if they could make it the most important stat we would have vets running the cheapest suits they could do well in and new players running the best they could afford. This would alleviate some of the stomping. Right now we have the opposite, best players running best gear versus noobs running cheap stuff they can afford to lose.
Because, that's why.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
384
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Outer Raven wrote:What we need is for the Player Market to open the **** up. When players can supplement their battle earnings with the ability to sell salvaged items isk will flow more freely and FW will become extremely relevant.
I feel that if we continue to change prices now once the PM opens up CCP may do a price adjustment on all items to make the new market relevant an in line with EVE. And if the Dust community gets too use to lower prices a higher adjustment could bite a lot of people in the a##.
How would introducing a player market help those with little isk? The 1 per centers will control the market and just get richer while squeezing new players harder.
Because, that's why.
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steelRatt
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
12
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:In the old DUST, you could take even an STD suit, and expect to get at most 2 deaths if you're good.
That's no longer the case, unless you're a thale sniper in the redline, there are MANY ways to die where you pretty much have no way to react. Cloaked shotgunners, HMG's up your but from an LAV driver or someone who just spawned, super tanks that can insta kill you before you can blink, and more and more.
You're expected to die, but your wallet cannot take it. 4 deaths in a good ADV suit means you're not making any money. 4 deaths, that can happen super fast.
I can hear you now: "But I'm super rich, ISK is lol to me"
True, and that's true to me too, I run with a squad so ISK losses are rare, but think of a new player? Do you think they can take losing 50k ISK a suit when matches give you 200k per?
That's another reason people brick tank, they don't want to lose their expensive suits without having a say in it, without having the possibility of fighting back.
Ultimatly this doesn't matter to me, I have a lot of ISK and make it easily, but I care about the new players, and running ADV suits to be somewhat competitive against proto suits is not viable for them. They're forced to switch to MLT suits and have fun being stomped over. Ok si I'd love to call you a scrub right now for all them times you killed me but I can't lol. You're right new players just can't make the kinda isk needed to buy skill books and suits to compete with the proto gangs and i feel for them I never run a proto suit tho Erm I do use the boundless hmg and i die lots We need player markets We could use more salvage We could use more payout We could use a gear locked type map with a max gear permitted We could use a pve game mode to grind isk
Defeat dose not exist to them that are willing.
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Pvt Numnutz
R 0 N 1 N
1059
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Though this seems to be a symptom of tiers TBH, but I feel like tiercide is far away, so at least reduce prices for now CCP should remove all basic-proto suits and add proto suits at level 1 of their related skills. Skilling up only increases the effectiveness of the suit. This fixes NPE This fixes HP disparities This makes balancing a bucketloadofmonkeys easier And makes the game tons funner This would ruin the game |
Emperor1349
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
59
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
I always wanted more isk reward and/or lower suit prices instead of longer ttk, screw this dancing around unloading on each other crap.
If you have a poor gun game no proto suit can help you.
If you have a good gun game no proto suit is needed.
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
116
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Posted - 2014.03.31 19:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:In the old DUST, you could take even an STD suit, and expect to get at most 2 deaths if you're good.
That's no longer the case, unless you're a thale sniper in the redline, there are MANY ways to die where you pretty much have no way to react. Cloaked shotgunners, HMG's up your but from an LAV driver or someone who just spawned, super tanks that can insta kill you before you can blink, and more and more.
You're expected to die, but your wallet cannot take it. 4 deaths in a good ADV suit means you're not making any money. 4 deaths, that can happen super fast.
I can hear you now: "But I'm super rich, ISK is lol to me"
True, and that's true to me too, I run with a squad so ISK losses are rare, but think of a new player? Do you think they can take losing 50k ISK a suit when matches give you 200k per?
That's another reason people brick tank, they don't want to lose their expensive suits without having a say in it, without having the possibility of fighting back.
Ultimatly this doesn't matter to me, I have a lot of ISK and make it easily, but I care about the new players, and running ADV suits to be somewhat competitive against proto suits is not viable for them. They're forced to switch to MLT suits and have fun being stomped over.
There is no conceivable reason for anyone to start playing this game. It would be pointless to try to adjust prices without overhauling the NPE and possibly adding PVE to give new players something to do.
As it stands, if you are new to this game, go play something else, there's no reason for the grind it's past it's prime and you are light years behind the sp curve.
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alten hilt
DUST University Ivy League
126
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Posted - 2014.03.31 20:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
I support tiericide...to an extent. I personally believe that something similar to EVE's model would work well in DUST, especially if it could transform away from a lobby shooter and into an open world shooter. All suits have one level, character skill and module choice impact power level. This would still give high SP characters a slight advantage, but not the massive imbalance we see today.
T1: General frames; light, medium, heavy(no heavy weapons) . Good all around suits with no particular specialization. Comparable slot allocation to T2 dropsuits. Cheap because these are basic frames with no added functionality requiring special manufacturing or R&D.
T2: Specialized roles generally classified around light, medium, and heavy frames. These dropsuits are more expensive due to added manufacturing costs and R&D. --Scout = Cloak --Pilot = Jet packs --Assault = Utility weapon slot (for AV weapon or 2nd grenade) --Logi = equipment slots --Sentinal = Heavy Weapon slot (force heavy weapon use) --Commando = 2 light weapon slots
Vehicles would follow something similar with basic frames, and specialized variants
Some ideas for T2 vehicle roles: Command Center - provides a selectable bonus buff within an area Mobile respawn/Fitting Area Bombardment - like mortars and artillery Mobile Shield emitter - provides a area of effect shield Mobile sensor platform - capable of very refined and precise scans within an area Mobile EWAR platform - capable of disrupting enemy scan precision within an area Covert insertion platform- able to cloak and transport troops.
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