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Saxbrin Shain Ivory Vanguard 197	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:43:00 - [1] - Quote I get it: CCP screwed up. The Amarr Scout didn't cost as much SP as it should have GÇö but that's no my fault, so I don't understand why I am being penalized. I dumped a few ranks into it to try because I had SP to spare. Sure, I could have noticed that the multiplier was wrong if I was scrutinizing, but I'm a customer not a Quality Assurance employee. Not. My. Job. But now I can't take the SP I spent the last few days saving up to try the new sidearms like I had planned. Instead, I need to spend the next few days making up SP debt from your error. CCP, your mistake and your choice to punish players as a "fix" is mind boggling. So many seemingly obvious errors GÇö text descriptions, skill requirements, slot layouts, skill bonuses not applying GÇö slipped through 1.8 that playing this off as my fault is not just a slap but a closed-fist punch to the face. I know it's impossible to catch every bug, and that players certainly find them faster than any QA team could, but honestlyGÇª almost every new dropsuit needs fixes? Do us all a favor, swallow your pride, and admit that the game is still in Beta.
Avallo Kantor Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 347	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:48:00 - [2] - Quote How is this a punishment exactly? You are getting something no other player gets, an advanced payment on skills. You get to be Proto before you should have reached it, and you will still be proto after this hotfix. So if you skilled into Amarr Scouts because you wanted to be an Amarr Scout, then you are in an amazing position few people ever get to be. You get to be ahead of what you should be at. That is... unless you only skilled into Amarr Scouts because it was cheap, and you thought you were "gaming" the system. If that's the case, then yeah turns out trying to game the system means you often get screwed over. They also announced this would happen on the Forums, and have also said if you really feel that torn up over it, file a ticket, and if you at least pretend to be a civil human, they might undo it for you.
Nomed Deeps 298	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:49:00 - [3] - Quote In the future, I would suggest everyone wait at least a week after a release before spending any SP as several changes have already been made to suits and more may still be to come. I cannot be bought, but I can be leased.
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 662	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:50:00 - [4] - Quote You are NOT being penalized. You are actually being helped. You were just able to spend SP that you haven't earned yet. You have access to skills right now that you shouldn't have. em ta kool t'nod
Philipp Achtel Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 155	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:50:00 - [5] - Quote CCP deserves a lot of criticism, but you're arguing in bad faith here. You knew the SP multiplier was wrong, but chose to use your points there anyway instead of wait for the multiplier to be fixed. Now you're here demanding a reversal. Its especially frustrating to me because posts like yours are used as a straw man when CCP screws up and people point it out. You are the kind of player poisoning the well.
Saxbrin Shain Ivory Vanguard 197	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:50:00 - [6] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: snipped bullshit Reading comprehension is not your strong point. I dumped spare SP into something I wanted to try, not something I wanted to specialize in. I would have rather had those SP refunded because I'm not a scout. Yeah. That's penalizing me for CCP's mistake.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 382	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:52:00 - [7] - Quote I urge the community to just stop playing this game. I mean hate me all you want but lets look at it objectively: We warn / advise CCP about balance issues, glitches and bugs...... they get left nearly forever. We buy boosters and other things for real money and still were slapped with patches like 1.7 and 1.8. Especially 1.8. I like the new stuff but the amount of bugs and issues ADDED to the game is astronomical. At this point I feel the only way they might take note is if people just stop playing.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1514	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:52:00 - [8] - Quote EMEMEMEMEMEMEM But didnt stop to think you just got a SP loan for advanced skills... No interest.. Take your gift and thank CCP on your way out. Almost every Mercenary in DUST would take a SP loan to get a skill they don't have SP for. Just wow.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster 775	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:52:00 - [9] - Quote Send them a support ticket? TOUGH TITTY, SAID THE KITTY. - Blaine the Mono
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 382	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:54:00 - [10] - Quote Philipp Achtel wrote: CCP deserves a lot of criticism, but you're arguing in bad faith here. You knew the SP multiplier was wrong, but chose to use your points there anyway instead of wait for the multiplier to be fixed. Now you're here demanding a reversal. Its especially frustrating to me because posts like yours are used as a straw man when CCP screws up and people point it out. You are the kind of player poisoning the well. By the way, how was anyone to know the skill multiplier was wrong? Even forum go-ers would have only discovered this after the fact. Or others that are super observant to details in the game. The fact is the average Joe would have been none the wiser. The next day they log on and for some unknown reason they are in minus SP. That's not fair, that's certainly not right and its just downright bad customer service.

Saxbrin Shain Ivory Vanguard 197	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:57:00 - [11] - Quote Philipp Achtel wrote: CCP deserves a lot of criticism, but you're arguing in bad faith here. You knew the SP multiplier was wrong, but chose to use your points there anyway instead of wait for the multiplier to be fixed. Now you're here demanding a reversal. Its especially frustrating to me because posts like yours are used as a straw man when CCP screws up and people point it out. You are the kind of player poisoning the well. Do you just not read, either? I DUMPED SPARE SP INTO SOMETHING I WANTED TO TRY. NOW I'M BEING PENALIZED BECAUSE CCP ** UP.
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 664	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:59:00 - [12] - Quote Bethhy wrote: EMEMEMEMEMEMEM But didnt stop to think you just got a SP loan for advanced skills... No interest.. Take your gift and thank CCP on your way out. Almost every Mercenary in DUST would take a SP loan to get a skill they don't have SP for. Just wow. Yeah, the logic on these people is ridiculous. Ok, let's imagine an hypotethical scenario. CCP fudges up big time and every single skill costs 0. I notice this and buy them all. I now have access to every single skill in the game. Now let's imagine instead of taking my skills back, CCP decides to just correct the price of the skills while leaving me with a 255 million SP negative balance. Why would i have any reason to complain? Wouldn't i in fact be way more than thankful that CCP allowed me to profit from the bug? It's hilarious and insane that these people feel they have any reason whatsoever to complain. em ta kool t'nod
Saxbrin Shain Ivory Vanguard 197	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:00:00 - [13] - Quote Yagihige wrote: Bethhy wrote: EMEMEMEMEMEMEM But didnt stop to think you just got a SP loan for advanced skills... No interest.. Take your gift and thank CCP on your way out. Almost every Mercenary in DUST would take a SP loan to get a skill they don't have SP for. Just wow. Yeah, the logic on these people is ridiculous. Ok, let's imagine an hypotethical scenario. CCP fudges up big time and every single skill costs 0. I notice this a buy them all. I now have access to every single skill in the game. Now let's imagine instead of taking my skills back, decides to just correct the price of the skills while leaving me with a 255 million SP negative balance. Why would i have any reason to complain? Wouldn't i in fact be way more than thankful that CCP allowed me to profit from the bug? It's hilarious and insane that these people feel they have any reason whatsoever to complain. Or they cold refund that one skill like they've done before. That would have been nice, because I didn't ask for a damn loan. Sorry I'm not a spreadsheet aspie and don't compare multipliers because I expect CCP to not screw up something basic that has been fine since Beta.
Altina McAlterson Pure Innocence. EoN. 946	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:01:00 - [14] - Quote Are you kidding me? Unless this is a lame attempt at trolling you're an idiot. You're an idiot for thinking you could magically skill into that one particular suit for half the SP of all the other suits in the entire game or you're an idiot for not paying closer attention before you spent the SP and you're also an idiot for embarrassing yourself with this idiotic thread. I can't stress enough how idiotic this is. I try and be as constructive as possible when posting but holy hell this is mind-bogglingly idiotic. Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 709	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:02:00 - [15] - Quote Bethhy wrote: EMEMEMEMEMEMEM The background noise at Marshall Mather's house. All Amarr Dropsuits to lvl 5. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14. A manu dei et tet rimon.
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 664	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:03:00 - [16] - Quote Saxbrin Shain wrote: Or they cold refund that one skill like they've done before. That would have been nice, because I didn't ask for a damn loan. Oh i get it now. You thought that's what CCP would do. You knew it was a mistake and you thought you were being smart to profit from it. And now that CCP gave you that skill you're mad that your little scheme is set in print. em ta kool t'nod
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 811	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:05:00 - [17] - Quote Try writing a ticket. Something along the lines of: "Hello. I recently skilled into Amarr Scout. I saw that I could skill into it to X level and still have enough SP left over to get things I was interested in. Obviously, I was quite surprised to see that I was negative SP this morning. I was not paying attention to the actual cost of Amarr Scout, only how much SP I had left over. I understand the need to have the skill actually cost the same as other variants of the skill but I am upset that I am negative SP. It will be a couple weeks until I can be back to where I was. I am wondering if it would be possible to reset my skill in the Amarr Light skills so that I might not be negative. I understand if this is not a possibility. Thanks for your time." Logibro, in a different thread, mentioned: CCP Logibro wrote: If it's really an issue for people, they can file a support ticket and ask the GMs nicely if they'll consider it. It is clearly, clearly not an endorsement of what will happen merely that you can try. Hope that helps. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Saxbrin Shain Ivory Vanguard 197	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:06:00 - [18] - Quote Yagihige wrote: Saxbrin Shain wrote: Or they cold refund that one skill like they've done before. That would have been nice, because I didn't ask for a damn loan. Oh i get it now. You thought that's what CCP would do. You knew it was a mistake and you thought you were being smart to profit from it. And now that CCP gave you that skill you're mad that your little scheme is set in print. Now you're just trolling. I thought i was spending spare SP. I didn't look at the multiplier because I shouldn't have to, and even if I had I wouldn't have assumed it was wrong because I wasn't privy to that information.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1783	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:08:00 - [19] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Try writing a ticket. Something along the lines of: "Hello. I recently skilled into Amarr Scout. I saw that I could skill into it to X level and still have enough SP left over to get things I was interested in. Obviously, I was quite surprised to see that I was negative SP this morning. I was not paying attention to the actual cost of Amarr Scout, only how much SP I had left over. I understand the need to have the skill actually cost the same as other variants of the skill but I am upset that I am negative SP. It will be a couple weeks until I can be back to where I was. I am wondering if it would be possible to reset my skill in the Amarr Light skills so that I might not be negative. I understand if this is not a possibility. Thanks for your time." Logibro, in a different thread, mentioned: CCP Logibro wrote: If it's really an issue for people, they can file a support ticket and ask the GMs nicely if they'll consider it. It is clearly, clearly not an endorsement of what will happen merely that you can try. Hope that helps. Do this. Honestly, I would not be shocked if the GMs did it on a request basis in this scenario. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Spike Slania CREATURES OF THE NIGHT 11	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:09:00 - [20] - Quote Saxbrin Shain wrote: I get it: CCP screwed up. The Amarr Scout didn't cost as much SP as it should have GÇö but that's no my fault, so I don't understand why I am being penalized. I dumped a few ranks into it to try because I had SP to spare. Sure, I could have noticed that the multiplier was wrong if I was scrutinizing, but I'm a customer not a Quality Assurance employee. Not. My. Job. But now I can't take the SP I spent the last few days saving up to try the new sidearms like I had planned. Instead, I need to spend the next few days making up SP debt from your error. CCP, your mistake and your choice to punish players as a "fix" is mind boggling. So many seemingly obvious errors GÇö text descriptions, skill requirements, slot layouts, skill bonuses not applying GÇö slipped through 1.8 that playing this off as my fault is not just a slap but a closed-fist punch to the face. I know it's impossible to catch every bug, and that players certainly find them faster than any QA team could, but honestlyGÇª almost every new dropsuit needs fixes? Do us all a favor, swallow your pride, and admit that the game is still in Beta. Lol, you have the same argument my roommate has, but the major difference is the only reason he went Amarr Scout was because he saw that it was only x4 multiplier while the rest where x8. I warned him in advanced not to get an amarr scout and he got it because it was cheaper, now he's complaining wanting his sp back for CCP's mistake and the Amarr Scout sucks, but what can I say when you noticed it before hand that it was wrong and went with it anyway. I'm not too far from you, I can't wait to see you, again and again

Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 664	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:10:00 - [21] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Try writing a ticket. If someone really writes a ticket with that intent, they're dumber than i thought. If i were CCP i'd be like "Oh, you want us to revert the skills you bought and make it so you can't rebuy the same value of skills you have right now? Well, that's an odd and dumb request, but here you go." em ta kool t'nod
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 2074	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:10:00 - [22] - Quote Saxbrin Shain wrote: I get it: CCP screwed up. The Amarr Scout didn't cost as much SP as it should have GÇö but that's no my fault, so I don't understand why I am being penalized. I dumped a few ranks into it to try because I had SP to spare. Sure, I could have noticed that the multiplier was wrong if I was scrutinizing, but I'm a customer not a Quality Assurance employee. Not. My. Job. But now I can't take the SP I spent the last few days saving up to try the new sidearms like I had planned. Instead, I need to spend the next few days making up SP debt from your error. CCP, your mistake and your choice to punish players as a "fix" is mind boggling. So many seemingly obvious errors GÇö text descriptions, skill requirements, slot layouts, skill bonuses not applying GÇö slipped through 1.8 that playing this off as my fault is not just a slap but a closed-fist punch to the face. I know it's impossible to catch every bug, and that players certainly find them faster than any QA team could, but honestlyGÇª almost every new dropsuit needs fixes? Do us all a favor, swallow your pride, and admit that the game is still in Beta. dry your eyes. Noone else is allowed to be proto without actually having the skillpoints. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Philipp Achtel Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 155	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:12:00 - [23] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Philipp Achtel wrote: CCP deserves a lot of criticism, but you're arguing in bad faith here. You knew the SP multiplier was wrong, but chose to use your points there anyway instead of wait for the multiplier to be fixed. Now you're here demanding a reversal. Its especially frustrating to me because posts like yours are used as a straw man when CCP screws up and people point it out. You are the kind of player poisoning the well. By the way, how was anyone to know the skill multiplier was wrong? Even forum go-ers would have only discovered this after the fact. Or others that are super observant to details in the game. The fact is the average Joe would have been none the wiser. The next day they log on and for some unknown reason they are in minus SP. That's not fair, that's certainly not right and its just downright bad customer service. Saxbrin knew it was a mistake, otherwise why would he have skilled into it just to try? He knew it was a mistake and expected a refund, and now he's not getting it. (Though to tell the truth, he could get one with a support ticket) This is why I'm saying he is arguing in bad faith. CCP deserves a lot of criticism for this patch, and nonsense like this distracts from and discredits legitimate issues.
Philipp Achtel Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 155	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:14:00 - [24] - Quote Saxbrin Shain wrote: Yagihige wrote: Saxbrin Shain wrote: Or they cold refund that one skill like they've done before. That would have been nice, because I didn't ask for a damn loan. Oh i get it now. You thought that's what CCP would do. You knew it was a mistake and you thought you were being smart to profit from it. And now that CCP gave you that skill you're mad that your little scheme is set in print. Now you're just trolling. I thought i was spending spare SP. I didn't look at the multiplier because I shouldn't have to, and even if I had I wouldn't have assumed it was wrong because I wasn't privy to that information. You are lying. You knew there was a mistake, and tried to profit from it. Now you've been burned, which is no more than what you deserve. All this is moot though, as the mods have hinted that a ticket will get your points back.
Altina McAlterson Pure Innocence. EoN. 946	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:16:00 - [25] - Quote Saxbrin Shain wrote: I didn't look at the multiplier because I shouldn't have to pay attention to what I'm doing and am incapable of functioning unless everything is clearly spelled out in flashing neon letters, and even if I had I wouldn't have assumed it was wrong because I wasn't privy to that information because I am unable to look at every single other dropsuit skill in the entire game.. And that is why you don't get to use sidearms today. Running a blaster tank in ambush is like bringing Anthrax to a pillow fight.
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 664	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:18:00 - [26] - Quote Saxbrin Shain wrote: Yagihige wrote: Saxbrin Shain wrote: Or they cold refund that one skill like they've done before. That would have been nice, because I didn't ask for a damn loan. Oh i get it now. You thought that's what CCP would do. You knew it was a mistake and you thought you were being smart to profit from it. And now that CCP gave you that skill you're mad that your little scheme is set in print. Now you're just trolling. I thought i was spending spare SP. I didn't look at the multiplier because I shouldn't have to, and even if I had I wouldn't have assumed it was wrong because I wasn't privy to that information. Look, let's imagine the following. Let's go back in time and imagine that instead of the Amarr Scout skills you bought, you had opted for another scout suit, with the correct SP prices. You don't have to be a genius to understand that you wouldn't have enough SP to buy up to the same level you bought. If there was another player that was a complete duplicate of you up until 1.8 launched but that instead of opting for the skills you did, had opted for another with correct SP prices, that duplicate of you would right now have access to less skills than you. You, on the other hand, have the benefit of having access to skills for which your duplicate can't have access to yet. em ta kool t'nod
Saxbrin Shain Ivory Vanguard 199	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:28:00 - [27] - Quote Yagihige wrote: Saxbrin Shain wrote: Yagihige wrote: Saxbrin Shain wrote: Or they cold refund that one skill like they've done before. That would have been nice, because I didn't ask for a damn loan. Oh i get it now. You thought that's what CCP would do. You knew it was a mistake and you thought you were being smart to profit from it. And now that CCP gave you that skill you're mad that your little scheme is set in print. Now you're just trolling. I thought i was spending spare SP. I didn't look at the multiplier because I shouldn't have to, and even if I had I wouldn't have assumed it was wrong because I wasn't privy to that information. Look, let's imagine the following. Let's go back in time and imagine that instead of the Amarr Scout skills you bought, you had opted for another scout suit, with the correct SP prices. You don't have to be a genius to understand that you wouldn't have enough SP to buy up to the same level you bought. If there was another player that was a complete duplicate of you up until 1.8 launched but that instead of opting for the skills you did, had opted for another with correct SP prices, that duplicate of you would right now have access to less skills than you. You, on the other hand, have the benefit of having access to skills for which your duplicate can't have access to yet. You seem to be doing an awful lot of speculating, so let me break down the sequence of events for you: 1.8 launched, I installed the patch. I looked at the skill tree and unlocked the suits I could use the day before. With nothing left to improve, and some SP to spare, I decided to try the Amarr scout GÇö not looking at any other Scout suit. I play Amarr, and I expect the skill tree to not be broken. That's not unreasonable. After unlocking the prerequesites, I dumped my remaining SP into Amarr Scout because that's what was left, not because it was cheaper than the other Scouts. It was enough for 2 ranks. That's not a lot of SP. CCP realized they made a mistake and chose to penalize players for it. I was affected. It was cheaper than other scouts and had to be fixed. I get that, and it's not a problem. I made a decision based on the information the game presented to me, and I have now been penalized. The problem is how CCP handled it.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7681	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:30:00 - [28] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Try writing a ticket. Something along the lines of: "Hello. I recently skilled into Amarr Scout. I saw that I could skill into it to X level and still have enough SP left over to get things I was interested in. Obviously, I was quite surprised to see that I was negative SP this morning. I was not paying attention to the actual cost of Amarr Scout, only how much SP I had left over. I understand the need to have the skill actually cost the same as other variants of the skill but I am upset that I am negative SP. It will be a couple weeks until I can be back to where I was. I am wondering if it would be possible to reset my skill in the Amarr Light skills so that I might not be negative. I understand if this is not a possibility. Thanks for your time." Logibro, in a different thread, mentioned: CCP Logibro wrote: If it's really an issue for people, they can file a support ticket and ask the GMs nicely if they'll consider it. It is clearly, clearly not an endorsement of what will happen merely that you can try. Hope that helps. This. OP, as long as you ask nicely, you have a pretty good likelihood of CCP helping you out. I asked nicely about the colors of the kindred scouts on my old petitions and I got a nice response from one of the GMs. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 651	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:36:00 - [29] - Quote Saxbrin Shain wrote: -snip- qq -snip- You are just being charged the correct amount, it's not a penalty. Were expecting to be indirectly rewarded for skilling into that tree (e.g. another repsec or "free" sp) Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 664	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:38:00 - [30] - Quote Saxbrin Shain wrote: [b]This post is about how CCP has handled a long list of mistakes that never should have happened in the first place. Ok, let's imagine this mistake hadn't happened. What would be the result? You wouldn't have enough SP to buy the skills you did. But you do have those skills for which you wouldn't have enough SP for. Hence, the only thing that resulted from this was a profit for you. Your negative SP is SP you were given for free. I think everyone else would like to have the same benefit you have. The only logical reason for you to complain is if you thought you were gaming the system. em ta kool t'nod



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