DUST Search - Snipers in 1.8...

George Moros wrote:

...seem seriously inadequate in performance. With the new TTK balancing CCP didn't even mention snipers, which suggests that they either think snipers are fine, or didn't look at them at all.
Well, they aren't fine. Far from it.
After playing several matches with a sniper, it becomes pretty clear that the only thing they are good for is taking out militia-fit players.
I used adv. Caldari Commando (dropsuit skill at 3), with 2 complex damage mods, and either Charge or Kaalakiota Tactical sniper rifle (proficiency skill 4).
My performance was approximately cut in half compared to pre-1.8.
There are several factors contributing to this. Apart from the obvious damage mod and proficiency skill nerfs, resistance buffs to heavies, there's also the fact that battlefield is now riddled with either heavies or scouts.
The former are, quite literally, unkillable by a sniper, and the latter are running around cloaked (and even uncloaked, half of them are now brick-tanked slayer-scouts with 700-800 EHP
This needs to be fixed, or snipers will become not only one of the most hated and annoying roles in DUST, but also totally useless.

Although there are multitude of possible ways to fix this, here's one that seems fine to me:

Normal sniper rifles
- buff damage by 10-15%.

Tactical sniper rifles
- damage stays the same
- 5 round clip
- scope magnification equal to that of normal snipers
- in short, make them more like a "marksman rifle"

Charge sniper rifle
- buff damage by 10-15%
- introduce them at advanced level, not only proto variant
- 3 round clip
- scope magnification of tactical rifles
- increased effectiveness against vehicles (still not at 100%, of course)
- in short, make them more like today's anti-material rifles

Opinions are welcome... Unless of course they contain comments like "who cares about snipers", "remove the redline" or "snipers are fine if you use Thale's". Please, refrain from that ****. Thank you.

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George Moros Balkan Express Squad 325	Posted - 2014.03.26 18:51:00 - [1] - Quote ...seem seriously inadequate in performance. With the new TTK balancing CCP didn't even mention snipers, which suggests that they either think snipers are fine, or didn't look at them at all. Well, they aren't fine. Far from it. After playing several matches with a sniper, it becomes pretty clear that the only thing they are good for is taking out militia-fit players. I used adv. Caldari Commando (dropsuit skill at 3), with 2 complex damage mods, and either Charge or Kaalakiota Tactical sniper rifle (proficiency skill 4). My performance was approximately cut in half compared to pre-1.8. There are several factors contributing to this. Apart from the obvious damage mod and proficiency skill nerfs, resistance buffs to heavies, there's also the fact that battlefield is now riddled with either heavies or scouts. The former are, quite literally, unkillable by a sniper, and the latter are running around cloaked (and even uncloaked, half of them are now brick-tanked slayer-scouts with 700-800 EHP This needs to be fixed, or snipers will become not only one of the most hated and annoying roles in DUST, but also totally useless. Although there are multitude of possible ways to fix this, here's one that seems fine to me: Normal sniper rifles - buff damage by 10-15%. Tactical sniper rifles - damage stays the same - 5 round clip - scope magnification equal to that of normal snipers - in short, make them more like a "marksman rifle" Charge sniper rifle - buff damage by 10-15% - introduce them at advanced level, not only proto variant - 3 round clip - scope magnification of tactical rifles - increased effectiveness against vehicles (still not at 100%, of course) - in short, make them more like today's anti-material rifles Opinions are welcome... Unless of course they contain comments like "who cares about snipers", "remove the redline" or "snipers are fine if you use Thale's". Please, refrain from that ****. Thank you. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Will Driver Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:44:00 - [2] - Quote Umm ... no. Sniper risk/reward equation has been out of balance, IMHO. If rewards comes way down, that seems like a good thing to me. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1350	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:52:00 - [3] - Quote There is no doubt that snipers are the group that doesn't really fit any niche in dust right now. Not only does it have the most out of kilter risk/reward ratio in the game but it also totally fails to provide an inherent incetive to support your team rather than just lone wolf your KDR into the stratosphere. I honestly think that CCP should remove the sniper rifle until they make the changes needed to force snipers into team play with the rest of us. Fun > Realism
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 689	Posted - 2014.03.26 19:52:00 - [4] - Quote Will Driver wrote: Umm ... no. Sniper risk/reward equation has been out of balance, IMHO. If rewards comes way down, that seems like a good thing to me. Basically the same thing would be if it took 2-3 entire clips just to kill someone in regular gun range, assuming all shots hit. Snipers are a low reward high risk weapon if your target is competent, and a NO reward weapon when you can't kill anything. If you thought snipers were low risk, it just proves that you've never gone counter sniping before. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Aramis Madrigal SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 183	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:00:00 - [5] - Quote Increase damage 15-20%, but start damage fall off penalties at ~200m. You now have enough alpha to actually kill things, but less incentive to camp far away from the battle. -Aramis
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 1017	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:04:00 - [6] - Quote I'm for your suggestions, on one condition. Light suits would have to make the best snipers. Have more scope sway on medium suits. Even more on heavy suits. Only light suits can remove scope sway entirely, even with level 5 in sniper rifles. In this, snipers become able to be OHK when countersniped, which allows them to have their potential OHK at a cost. Also, change proficiency to a 3% increase in headshot damage per level. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1655	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:12:00 - [7] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: There is no doubt that snipers are the group that doesn't really fit any niche in dust right now. Not only does it have the most out of kilter risk/reward ratio in the game but it also totally fails to provide an inherent incetive to support your team rather than just lone wolf your KDR into the stratosphere. I honestly think that CCP should remove the sniper rifle until they make the changes needed to force snipers into team play with the rest of us. Yeah, let's get rid of the fun in the name of chasing that almighty win. Force? How about develop. Develop the scout sniper role with new mechanics that, with a light suit made for the role of scout sniper would naturally benefit the team. The combination of the suit, weapon, skills and mods would assist with getting OHKs. Therefore, people would want to use the suit rather than just use any suit. Make that same combo the only thing that allows the sniper rifle to be usable through reducing sway etc. Then add : The ability to passive scan and/or active scan for the whole team. If you scope targets with your sniper scope they light up for so many seconds. Squad leader can mark problem targets or areas much like the defend order and sniping targets in that area gets extra points. Open more areas up to LoS so snipers are encouraged to move closer. Right now you have to move within enemy range. Part of the point of sniping is to stay out of enemy range. This game has too much running around and 360-¦ threat level for sniping to even be considered appropriate for the task. Too many snipers won't be a problem if you make it skill intensive to make it work. Cloak while firing for a few seconds before decloak at the expense of increased charge up time on the cloak. Make the sniper rifle hard to fit unless you use the sniper suit that has a reduced fitting cost. Offer more intel ewar mods and equipment that give points. "Stay stealthy scouts." GÇô Ron Burgundy
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 690	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:20:00 - [8] - Quote Aramis Madrigal wrote: Increase damage 15-20%, but start damage fall off penalties at ~200m. You now have enough alpha to actually kill things, but less incentive to camp far away from the battle. -Aramis You'd need the boost to be about 50% for such a pathetic range. But on a more realistic sense damage has to scale according to the target... Possibly the shots should do a bit more damage if the target is wearing plating or is a heavy. Now, what I mean by this is that a medium should be 2-3 shots, and a heavy about 4-5, if they were body shots. Heashots should be about 1 for medium and 2-3 for a heavy. Scouts now have cloaking so getting one shot regardless seems fair in comparison. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Waiyu Ren Seeker of The Path 89	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:37:00 - [9] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: There is no doubt that snipers are the group that doesn't really fit any niche in dust right now. Not only does it have the most out of kilter risk/reward ratio in the game but it also totally fails to provide an inherent incetive to support your team rather than just lone wolf your KDR into the stratosphere. I honestly think that CCP should remove the sniper rifle until they make the changes needed to force snipers into team play with the rest of us. Yesterday I camped a point not far from the enemy MCC while targeting the objective (Dom). It had the best defensive position, even if my chance of being discovered was higher. I managed about 6 kill assists and 5 outright kills solely on targets that were defending that objective, and then later assaulting that objective after i helped my team take it, Whether my team mates were even aware of me or not. I really couldn't have helped my team any better than that on the front line, and when i finally was discovered and counter-sniped, it was a proto that took me down... which was kind of flattering given that i was only using a basic. The role is what you make of it. I don't have the twitch-skill necessary to be an asset on the front line, and i can't make my brain swap to left-stick dependance after a decade of right-stick aiming, which means Aim Assist is always "turned off" for me. That leaves "Skill-shot" and Support weapons at a mid to long engagement range. This might be "Low risk KDR padding" for some people, but for me it's feeling that i can actually be an asset rather than a liability. You can't force anyone to play the way you think they should. Yeah some silly little boys might just be doing it to feel cool, but not everyone is a silly little boy. Shouting doesn't make your opinion seem more valid, it just makes you seem more annoying.
Waiyu Ren Seeker of The Path 90	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:41:00 - [10] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: What you said. The Caldari Scout looks made for the Sniper/Spotter role. All those highs, and just enough lows for a bit of self-sufficiency. Shouting doesn't make your opinion seem more valid, it just makes you seem more annoying.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 7777	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:44:00 - [11] - Quote Just fix the hit detection, then we'll start talking. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. DUST514514
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1471	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:49:00 - [12] - Quote If hit detection and headshots where consistent... BAM! Skilled Snipers are 100% viable.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2739	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:50:00 - [13] - Quote Ive been saying this for a while but snipers need a significant head shot bonus to be brought in line I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 120	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:52:00 - [14] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: There is no doubt that snipers are the group that doesn't really fit any niche in dust right now. Not only does it have the most out of kilter risk/reward ratio in the game but it also totally fails to provide an inherent incetive to support your team rather than just lone wolf your KDR into the stratosphere. I honestly think that CCP should remove the sniper rifle until they make the changes needed to force snipers into team play with the rest of us. If a sniper had a mic he can call out enemies tough enemies while killing the weaker ones, too bad i never had a mic tho :/ i would've been a big help on many occasions.
Lucrezia LeGrand 382	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:55:00 - [15] - Quote Are snipers still a thing with the dam modifiers nerfed to 3,4 and 5%? I always thought you had to run at least 2 complex to impact the battlefield in 1.7. Thale groupie (not the gun, but the man).
dreth longbow Bank of DUST 514 39	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:11:00 - [16] - Quote Lets get more in line with reality. Sway hinders hits, recoil hinders time to acquire target 1 hit max for basic say around 250 damage 1 hit for adv say around 500 damage 1 hit for proto say around 1k damage, 2x zoom 1 hit officer 1.2k damage, 2.5 zoom vehicular damage and wp for kills (last I played it did not apply) range 800m, officer 1k meters make tac larger clip, more recoil, 25% less distance(less reacquire of target) high sway with suit reduction to sway What does this do? lets people try the sniper fit, but makes them not deadly forces those who really want to snip to invest sp to be deadly like all fits gets the sniper out of harms way and forces the other team to counter sniper to remove as it should be (forces team to be well rounded or pay price) Note: snipers are meant to shoot from the red line, their job is to be out of harms way Now I know people don't like snipers, neither do I when I am playing infantry, but they have a role like scouts or heavys they should not be stuck with an assault mentality. Assault should always complain about snipers that is when you know they are doing their job. FYI when I get killed by a sniper, I counter-snipe to solve the problem.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2127	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:14:00 - [17] - Quote George Moros wrote: ...seem seriously inadequate in performance. With the new TTK balancing CCP didn't even mention snipers, which suggests that they either think snipers are fine, or didn't look at them at all. Well, they aren't fine. Far from it. After playing several matches with a sniper, it becomes pretty clear that the only thing they are good for is taking out militia-fit players. I used adv. Caldari Commando (dropsuit skill at 3), with 2 complex damage mods, and either Charge or Kaalakiota Tactical sniper rifle (proficiency skill 4). My performance was approximately cut in half compared to pre-1.8. There are several factors contributing to this. Apart from the obvious damage mod and proficiency skill nerfs, resistance buffs to heavies, there's also the fact that battlefield is now riddled with either heavies or scouts. The former are, quite literally, unkillable by a sniper, and the latter are running around cloaked (and even uncloaked, half of them are now brick-tanked slayer-scouts with 700-800 EHP This needs to be fixed, or snipers will become not only one of the most hated and annoying roles in DUST, but also totally useless. Although there are multitude of possible ways to fix this, here's one that seems fine to me: Normal sniper rifles - buff damage by 10-15%. Tactical sniper rifles - damage stays the same - 5 round clip - scope magnification equal to that of normal snipers - in short, make them more like a "marksman rifle" Charge sniper rifle - buff damage by 10-15% - introduce them at advanced level, not only proto variant - 3 round clip - scope magnification of tactical rifles - increased effectiveness against vehicles (still not at 100%, of course) - in short, make them more like today's anti-material rifles Opinions are welcome... Unless of course they contain comments like "who cares about snipers", "remove the redline" or "snipers are fine if you use Thale's". Please, refrain from that ****. Thank you. Personally, I think for normal sniper rifles, damage per hit should be buffed significantly such that one hit kills were common. The reduce the rate of fire to something like one shot every 30 seconds.
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 295	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:14:00 - [18] - Quote Use a Thale's. Problem solved. You now have enough to kill most scouts in a single body shot, as well as the majority of other suits in one headshot. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
fragmentedhackslash Arrogance. 217	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:16:00 - [19] - Quote Git Gud. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1981967#post1981967 Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:20:00 - [20] - Quote seriously qqing about sniping getting harder and crying for a sniper buff...i dont think i have ever seen anything so scrubby get gud A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular Long Live the Empress Burn the Heretics

Powerh8er DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 406	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:29:00 - [21] - Quote I really hate snipers. And the fact is that every weapon in this game have cartoonish range except sniper rifles. Decrease the range of sniper rifles, decrease redline snipers. And I wouldnt mind so much by getting killed by an sniper if it were from100 - 200 meter away. Te Valhall!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 448	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:35:00 - [22] - Quote You want sniper rifles to have vehicular damage ??? Are you serious ??? Being able to shoot the driver of an LAV or turret gunner of a drop ship is not enough , now you want them to cause tank damage . Silly , just silly . You want the scope of the tactical to be like a normal , don't you know that tactical's are magnified more than normal sniper rifle's ??? A slight buff in damage is needed like five to eight percent . Or maybe just five and with damage mods , that can be brought up to ten percent and with the prof add fifteen to that once maxed out . There doesn't need to be much of an increase . Actually the scope can use some fine tuning . Not like a Thale but somewhat in between a tactical and a thale . Tactical scope's can become the regular with the magnification increasing to that under the thale's as one goes to prototype , with the thale being the exception just like it is now . Changing the scope would make sniping more efficient and actually could be a skill set in the sniper's skill tree . A certain amount of skill points and each level increases magnification . Don't know why that's not an option . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 448	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:39:00 - [23] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: I really hate snipers. And the fact is that every weapon in this game have cartoonish range except sniper rifles. Decrease the range of sniper rifles, decrease redline snipers. And I wouldnt mind so much by getting killed by an sniper if it were from100 - 200 meter away. Yeah and let's nerf your roles that you play by fifty percent and see how you like that . Would make you useless , just like the comment that you just made and people like you are typical of what is wrong with this game and the community . I seen you play before and you are good and your comments normally have merit , please don't change that about yourself . I just know that you were just ball busting right ??? If so I apologize for misunderstanding you . If not then .... ^^^^ Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 461	Posted - 2014.03.26 22:05:00 - [24] - Quote George Moros wrote: bla bla bla 2 words: Head shots. And before you try to explain to me how squatting in safety far away from any fighting, hit-scan, and no bullet drop requires skills. Just stop because it doesn't. I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 693	Posted - 2014.03.27 00:15:00 - [25] - Quote medomai grey wrote: George Moros wrote: bla bla bla 2 words: Head shots. And before you try to explain to me how squatting in safety far away from any fighting, hit-scan, and no bullet drop requires skills. Just stop because it doesn't. I'm assuming you've never used a sniper rifle in your life. Assault and Combat rifles are soo much easier to kill with, that if snipers require no skill, then those bullet spam guns and their ilk must require negative skill. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 109	Posted - 2014.03.27 00:25:00 - [26] - Quote Snipers are fine in a commando suit, it's either choice if they went scout, but they should have went commando. If you want to argue how to help snipers, I would suggest those they damage light up on their team's mini map and if killed they sniper gains +25 for assist and +10 for recon. And those who say its impossible to kill a heavy suit, its suppose to be extremely difficult to do so. Stick to lighter targets.
Yeeeuuuupppp 193	Posted - 2014.03.27 00:52:00 - [27] - Quote I've retired my sniper rifle, until I get tired of getting spawn killed everywhere. I like watching cloaked scouts run, letting them feel invisible ... Until i headshot them.... Sniping is honestly boring now, I've resorted to my "slayer scout" from now until they nerf us to qqing faggots CCP Saberwing: " War elephants for 1.9" I really want the templar set Feel the wrath of my troll
Thokk Nightshade Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 9	Posted - 2014.03.27 04:42:00 - [28] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: I really hate snipers. And the fact is that every weapon in this game have cartoonish range except sniper rifles. Decrease the range of sniper rifles, decrease redline snipers. And I wouldnt mind so much by getting killed by an sniper if it were from100 - 200 meter away. So what is the point of being a Sniper if you have to be in range of assault weapons to use them? I have to get into my stance (making me immobile), pull my rifle up, line up the shot, and shoot, while you are putting 10-15-20 rounds in me at the same distance. I get a total of 3-5 shots before reloading and you have a 50 round or more magazine on rapid fire. What you are saying is taking away the entire point of a sniper... Reach out and touch someone . The entire purpose of a Sniper (real world) is long range suppression and assistance. Right now It is a 2.5 to 1 ratio (250 vs. 600). That isn't unrealistic by any means, If anything, it is underwhelming. Just like in real life, Snipers SHOULD have more distance to their shots. A 338 Lapua or a 416 Rigby (or a Barrett .50 Cal while we're talking about it) have much longer accurate ranges than an M-16 or AK-47. The three previously mentioned can all reach out to about a mile (the Barrett .50 in 2012 had a confirmed kill at 1.75 miles. Granted, that's a world record, but a 1 mile shot is not unheard of anymore in the sniping world, just extremely difficult.) However, the documented and accepted max effective range is 1.1 miles. An M16A2 has a max effective range for AREA, not person specific, targets of about 1/2 a mile; an M4 is only 1/3 of a mile. I know as of 2008 the Army didn't even do shooting (for regular forces, I'm not sure on SF, etc.) of 330 yards which is less than 2/10 of a mile. An AK-47 only has about a 225 yard max effective distance which is about 1/10 of a mile. So really, if an assault rifle has a max effective range of 250, we should be seeing 1000 minimum distance which is only 4 times farther, not the 6 times farther of the standard world.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2243	Posted - 2014.03.27 04:55:00 - [29] - Quote surprisingly i think they did one thing right this patch for snipers. the caldari commando is hands down the best choice for snipers now, without it your damage with the rifle is just so low.... so we all know the bad things about 1.8 for snipers and yes this patch ******* sucks for snipers, but a few changes helped snipers like myself that enjoy fighting outside of the redline. the caldari commando is an amazing suit for fighting outside of the red line, while supporting your team on the ground, it's very effective at transitioning between a sniper role and an assault role, when you get ambushed you have a light weapon to fend them off on terms and remove them from range with the sniper. the lower ttk and the nerfing of the rail rifle allows for better mid-long range combat which the ground sniper prefers. it's far from the good olden days of ground sniping, but it does give snipers a small niche for those that can handle it.
Samantha Hunyz G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 87	Posted - 2014.03.27 05:18:00 - [30] - Quote Cal Commando checking in. Im shooting close to double the ammo to score about 10 kills than previous builds. Scouts already got the cloak role and ewar. I dont think that limiting a new sniper role to any suit is the way to go. Everything already has its specialty now, and giving another to just the scout suit seems over the top. Doesnt matter, because Ill be reskilling into the Cal scout soon anyways, but still throwing in my 2 isk on that topic. Fixing hit detection and improving rendering are the most important things needed to snipe. Next would be better zoom and crosshairs already. It is painful to line up a red dot on a red icon equipment. After these fixes Im sure a damage buff will still be needed, as the proto SR vs proto suit was already painful pre 1.8. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.



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