DUST Search - [PETITION] CCP: please release 1.9 in mid-to-late April: only balanc...

Garth Mandra wrote:

Aqil Aegivan wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

AV/Vehicle balance is still a major problem.

I believe that AV balance will stay a problem until we see changes to game mechanics which cannot be made quickly or by updating values. Otherwise CCP probably would have made some changes already.

Part of the point of the current balance was to explore a new dynamic for vehicles and to iterate on that with larger, more costly development when they had the numbers they need. I agree that in the meantime vehicle balance has become an embarrassing joke but the pit CCP have dug for themselves isn't one they can just pave over with a hotfix. They need to develop new mechanics to make this stuff work and the associated outlay requires solid justification (now more than ever). It sucks that this beta testing BS comes at the expense of the player base of a 1+ year old game but that's what people get for not going and playing something with competent designers.

Basically there aren't any easy/quick fixes at this point, not even at the expense of temporarily halting the introduction of new features.

I'm not sure that's true.

I think there are a lot of improvements to be made by just tweaking numbers.

Vehicle hardeners are too good, railguns are too good, tanks are a bit too fast.
AV nade and swarm damage is too low (I don't know about forges), swarm range is too low. Might want to increase AV nade carry amount and swarm clip size.

I'd also like to see blasters changed to be AV rather than AI. That's more controversial and complicated though.

If we can get infantry AV back to the point where it's a threat to vehicles then that would improves things a lot.

Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! TURTLE POWER!!!

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1123	Posted - 2014.03.19 02:39:00 - [1] - Quote Please release 1.9 quickly. Focus only on balancing numbers based on player feedback and data from 1.8. The changes in 1.8 are mostly excellent, but I suspect with so many sweeping changes we will need more refinement. I know you have a lot of big ideas planned, but don't delay what could be small balancing tweaks for months waiting on new content. AV/Vehicle balance is still a major problem, it would be very frustrating to wait many months with constant tank spam, and unbalanced weapons/suits for big new things. +1 if you agree. Best PvE idea ever!
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 185	Posted - 2014.03.19 02:44:00 - [2] - Quote +2 Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 376	Posted - 2014.03.19 02:47:00 - [3] - Quote dont forget bug fixes. every patch brings new ones. i want proxie chat so i can run around in the gall heavy saying GET IN MAH BELLY. nah just kidding trade window please=)
Defy Gravity Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 289	Posted - 2014.03.19 02:48:00 - [4] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Please release 1.9 quickly. Focus only on balancing numbers based on player feedback and data from 1.8. The changes in 1.8 are mostly excellent, but I suspect with so many sweeping changes we will need more refinement. I know you have a lot of big ideas planned, but don't delay what could be small balancing tweaks for months waiting on new content. AV/Vehicle balance is still a major problem, it would be very frustrating to wait many months with constant tank spam, and unbalanced weapons/suits for big new things. +1 if you agree. +100 Why are you reading my bio? Stalker......
DEA Scott Richardson Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2014.03.19 02:56:00 - [5] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Please release 1.9 quickly. Focus only on balancing numbers based on player feedback and data from 1.8. The changes in 1.8 are mostly excellent, but I suspect with so many sweeping changes we will need more refinement. I know you have a lot of big ideas planned, but don't delay what could be small balancing tweaks for months waiting on new content. AV/Vehicle balance is still a major problem, it would be very frustrating to wait many months with constant tank spam, and unbalanced weapons/suits for big new things. +1 if you agree. +1
VonSpliff TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 95	Posted - 2014.03.19 03:09:00 - [6] - Quote +1 This might get bad and I can't do another 4 months of bad. "It never got weird enough for me." Dr. T
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 506	Posted - 2014.03.19 03:57:00 - [7] - Quote wont happen, look for new build (not uprising 1.9, but full new name build) coming on May 14th (my guess).... Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion League of Infamy 290	Posted - 2014.03.19 05:57:00 - [8] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: AV/Vehicle balance is still a major problem. I believe that AV balance will stay a problem until we see changes to game mechanics which cannot be made quickly or by updating values. Otherwise CCP probably would have made some changes already. Part of the point of the current balance was to explore a new dynamic for vehicles and to iterate on that with larger, more costly development when they had the numbers they need. I agree that in the meantime vehicle balance has become an embarrassing joke but the pit CCP have dug for themselves isn't one they can just pave over with a hotfix. They need to develop new mechanics to make this stuff work and the associated outlay requires solid justification (now more than ever). It sucks that this beta testing BS comes at the expense of the player base of a 1+ year old game but that's what people get for not going and playing something with competent designers. Basically there aren't any easy/quick fixes at this point, not even at the expense of temporarily halting the introduction of new features.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion League of Infamy 354	Posted - 2014.03.19 06:02:00 - [9] - Quote Aqil Aegivan wrote: Vell0cet wrote: AV/Vehicle balance is still a major problem. I believe that AV balance will stay a problem until we see changes to game mechanics which cannot be made quickly or by updating values. Otherwise CCP probably would have made some changes already. Part of the point of the current balance was to explore a new dynamic for vehicles and to iterate on that with larger, more costly development when they had the numbers they need. I agree that in the meantime vehicle balance has become an embarrassing joke but the pit CCP have dug for themselves isn't one they can just pave over with a hotfix. They need to develop new mechanics to make this stuff work and the associated outlay requires solid justification (now more than ever). It sucks that this beta testing BS comes at the expense of the player base of a 1+ year old game but that's what people get for not going and playing something with competent designers. Basically there aren't any easy/quick fixes at this point, not even at the expense of temporarily halting the introduction of new features. I'm not sure that's true. I think there are a lot of improvements to be made by just tweaking numbers. Vehicle hardeners are too good, railguns are too good, tanks are a bit too fast. AV nade and swarm damage is too low (I don't know about forges), swarm range is too low. Might want to increase AV nade carry amount and swarm clip size. I'd also like to see blasters changed to be AV rather than AI. That's more controversial and complicated though. If we can get infantry AV back to the point where it's a threat to vehicles then that would improves things a lot.
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion League of Infamy 290	Posted - 2014.03.19 06:11:00 - [10] - Quote Fair enough, I'm not saying things can't be improved at all by making value changes. I'm just saying that an update with no new content is a big sacrifice just to get a partial band aid fix that doesn't really complement the long term strategy already intended to address these issues.

Tailss Prower 501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit 196	Posted - 2014.03.19 06:25:00 - [11] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: dont forget bug fixes. every patch brings new ones. this patch didn't have any bug fixes which I find to be quite sad really
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1072	Posted - 2014.03.19 06:30:00 - [12] - Quote Unlikely to be a 1.9 Only six weeks away from Fanfest and the assumed release of the new build 'insert name here' 1.0. Besides if there were a 1.9, past experience and convos with the Dev's and CPM tells me that it is work is almost complete on it and not likely to be changed. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University CPM1 candidate
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2014.03.19 06:38:00 - [13] - Quote Aqil Aegivan wrote: Fair enough, I'm not saying things can't be improved at all by making value changes. I'm just saying that an update with no new content is a big sacrifice just to get a partial band aid fix that doesn't really complement the long term strategy already intended to address these issues. I think vehicle capacitors and e-war are part of the long-term solution to vehicle balance. That could take a while to implement (It really should have been implemented in 1.7 imo, when they spent months on the vehicle changes). What I don't want is to be stuck waiting for 3 months, waiting on a "God patch" that ends up getting pushed back a couple of times, and the next thing you know it's late July or early August and we're still complaining about how the Magsec is totally OP out of balance (just an example, it might actually be fine), or the buffs to scouts still aren't enough to counter heavies and they're unchecked and out of control, or Mass drivers were buffed too much and it's MD spam left and right. I don't know what the problems will be with 1.8, we're going to have to see how things shake out, but I don't think any game designer can make as many sweeping changes as CCP did with 1.8 and get everything right. This long stretch of broken RR and tank spam in 1.7 has been incredibly frustrating. I took a break for a while just to get away from it. We really need a quick patch after 1.8 to at least balance things better if we're in for a major future patch ahead. I don't expect 1.9 to make things perfect, but if they can file down the sharp edges of the most egregious balancing issues, then it would make waiting for a while much easier. Best PvE idea ever!
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion League of Infamy 290	Posted - 2014.03.19 06:41:00 - [14] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: ... the next thing you know it's late July or early August and we're still complaining about how the Magsec is totally OP out of balance (just an example, it might actually be fine), or the buffs to scouts still aren't enough to counter heavies and they're unchecked and out of control, or Mass drivers were buffed too much and it's MD spam left and right. Sorry, I was just talking about vehicle balance. I have no problem with a larger relative focus on balance after dropping a lot of new content.
Robin Walkerr Maphia Clan Corporation 5	Posted - 2014.03.19 06:48:00 - [15] - Quote +1 expecially for the AV thing
Fiddlestaxp TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 599	Posted - 2014.03.19 06:55:00 - [16] - Quote I don't like the petition format of this post... But there is going to need to be some AV balance changes soon to counteract the ~25% damage reduction that AV weapons should see against shield tanks. This isn't a game breaking thing, because most AV weapons were already broken, but it certainly goes against the flow of positive changes of 1.8
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1152	Posted - 2014.03.19 22:13:00 - [17] - Quote Fiddlestaxp wrote: I don't like the petition format of this post... But there is going to need to be some AV balance changes soon to counteract the ~25% damage reduction that AV weapons should see against shield tanks. This isn't a game breaking thing, because most AV weapons were already broken, but it certainly goes against the flow of positive changes of 1.8 The petition isn't meant to be a "demand" on CCP, but more to express a unified concern that if there are longer gaps in development, the most egregious balancing issues need to be addressed while they work on big things. The long period of 1.7 with broken railgun and tank spam has been painful. Repeating this for another long period would be a big mistake. Get a quick patch out that refines balance so we can have fun with the game while CCP works on big projects. Best PvE idea ever!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8412	Posted - 2014.03.19 22:15:00 - [18] - Quote Agree but when HAV are balanced you will still see a lot of them since a lot of people like using vehicles. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10037	Posted - 2014.03.19 22:16:00 - [19] - Quote A balance patch will likely be very much needed. +1 Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
jenza aranda BetaMax. 3012	Posted - 2014.03.19 22:16:00 - [20] - Quote 1.9? what 1.9? Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki

Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1154	Posted - 2014.03.19 22:18:00 - [21] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: 1.9? what 1.9? It's the balance pass that CCP ought to release between 1.8 and whatever big things they're working on for Fanfest. Talk to CCP, make it happen! Best PvE idea ever!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8413	Posted - 2014.03.19 22:18:00 - [22] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: 1.9? what 1.9? A very telling statement..... interesting. +1 " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1837	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:20:00 - [23] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: jenza aranda wrote: 1.9? what 1.9? It's the balance pass that CCP ought to release between 1.8 and whatever big things they're working on for Fanfest. Talk to CCP, make it happen! Exactly. Who cares what it's called, Jenza? It's ultimately the awful gameplay and destructive NPE that we all care about, after all. P.S. Signed. I support SP rollover.
thesupertman Better Hide R Die 184	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:24:00 - [24] - Quote 1.9= adds balance and fixes bugs 2.0= lots of new toys that are added to a balanced game with less bugs. This game need more vehicles!
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2640	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:38:00 - [25] - Quote Well need a way of revoking posting rights sometimes. Lets make catchy thread titles and populist demands without any thought to how development or the real word works WWHHHHOOO BLARGYALDAA!!! "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 781	Posted - 2014.03.20 14:15:00 - [26] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Please release 1.9 quickly. Focus only on balancing numbers based on player feedback and data from 1.8. The changes in 1.8 are mostly excellent, but I suspect with so many sweeping changes we will need more refinement. I know you have a lot of big ideas planned, but don't delay what could be small balancing tweaks for months waiting on new content. AV/Vehicle balance is still a major problem, it would be very frustrating to wait many months with constant tank spam, and unbalanced weapons/suits for big new things. +1 if you agree. +1 but I doubt this will happen CCP needs something shiny for fanfest...
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 1139	Posted - 2014.03.20 14:16:00 - [27] - Quote If the internet has taught me anything, it's that online petitions work 100% of the time ...but +1 for you anyway. I would like to see a patch devoted to balancing what we have now/bug fixes. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 1933	Posted - 2014.03.20 14:22:00 - [28] - Quote +1 >Bastard I : "Cce me ne... futt! XD"
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1079	Posted - 2014.03.20 14:37:00 - [29] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: 1.9? what 1.9? As close to confirmation of 1.9 not happening as your likely to get. Roll on Fanfest and 2.0. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University CPM1 candidate
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3205	Posted - 2014.03.20 14:54:00 - [30] - Quote That would require swift movement on CCP's part. Ain't happenin'. (Remember when they said they'd be going to more hotfixes? I think we saw 4 before that idea hit the wall.) I GÖú Kittens.

Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1179	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:06:00 - [31] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Well need a way of revoking posting rights sometimes. Lets make catchy thread titles and populist demands without any thought to how development or the real word works WWHHHHOOO BLARGYALDAA!!! First this isn't a demand, it's meant to be a unified expression of opinion from those that agree. The way 1.7's long stretch with broken balance issues was handled was painful and damaging to the game. Development takes time. I myself code, so I understand that better than most. The request is to simply balance the sharpest corners based on feedback/data after major changes in a small/focused patch prior to a bigger content patch that could have significant delays (which may be for good reason). I know there are big things planned for Fanfest, but realistically it could just be an announcement and not a release. If they do have big things planned, the date could slip (possibly multiple times--like 1.8's date did). I don't begrudge that, things happen. The problem is if things are broken while the ship date keeps getting pushed back, we're left with a broken game and trying to adapt to the problems for months. This is very damaging to the community. The request is reasonable, tweaking numbers in a database, and possibly revising a few gameplay mechanics in the code, should that become necessary (for example, if cloaks turn out to be game-breaking OP, perhaps making damage force a decloak with a recloak delay penalty, or if they suck horribly, possibly reducing their blue-ghost opacity by 10%, or whatever makes sense). Best PvE idea ever!
Villanor Aquarius WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 150	Posted - 2014.03.20 17:03:00 - [32] - Quote I would like to see tweaks to AV and weakening of militia tanks but more than anything else I want to see: menu optimizations improvements to vehicles appearing on minimap restock from fitting selection menu for vehicles not firing when pulling the trigger too fast after weapon switch fixed rail turret bug fixes Reload bug firing lag bug drift of aimer for no apparent reason
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1837	Posted - 2014.03.20 23:37:00 - [33] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Well need a way of revoking posting rights sometimes. Lets make catchy thread titles and populist demands without any thought to how development or the real word works WWHHHHOOO BLARGYALDAA!!! First this isn't a demand, it's a request meant to be a unified expression of opinion from those that agree. The way 1.7's long stretch with broken balance issues was handled was painful and damaging to the game. Development takes time. I myself code, so I understand that better than most. The request is to simply balance the sharpest corners based on feedback/data after major changes in a small/focused patch prior to a bigger content patch that could have significant delays (which may be for good reason). I know there are big things planned for Fanfest, but realistically it could just be an announcement and not a release. If they do have big things planned, the date could slip (possibly multiple times--like 1.8's date did). I don't begrudge that, things happen. The problem is if things are broken while the ship date keeps getting pushed back, we're left with a broken game and trying to adapt to the problems for months. This is very damaging to the community. The request is reasonable, tweaking numbers in a database, and possibly revising a few gameplay mechanics in the code, should that become necessary. For example, if cloaks turn out to be game-breaking OP, perhaps making damage from enemy fire decloak you with a recloak delay penalty, or if they suck horribly, possibly reducing their blue-ghost opacity by 10%, or whatever makes sense. The truth of what you're saying here is so self-evident that it's sad you have to lay it out like this. +1. Very well said. I support SP rollover.
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1431	Posted - 2014.03.20 23:39:00 - [34] - Quote I want racial vehicles and pilot suits and buffed AV(and possibly AV suits). "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 36	Posted - 2014.03.20 23:43:00 - [35] - Quote +1 AR variants 1.8 - RIP
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1203	Posted - 2014.03.20 23:49:00 - [36] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: I want racial vehicles and pilot suits and buffed AV(and possibly AV suits). I want all that too. The question is, if it takes 3-5 more months to get them, would you rather have 1.9 only deal with balancing AV and other balance issues, or wait for it to all come at once? Best PvE idea ever!
Henrietta Unknown Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 55	Posted - 2014.03.20 23:50:00 - [37] - Quote +1 Dunno how much longer we can hold out.
JIMvc2 UNREAL WARRIORS 47	Posted - 2014.03.23 23:52:00 - [38] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Please release 1.9 quickly. Focus only on balancing numbers based on player feedback and data from 1.8. The changes in 1.8 are mostly excellent, but I suspect with so many sweeping changes we will need more refinement. I know you have a lot of big ideas planned, but don't delay what could be small balancing tweaks for months waiting on new content. AV/Vehicle balance is still a major problem, it would be very frustrating to wait many months with constant tank spam, and unbalanced weapons/suits for big new things. +1 if you agree. I agree. I really want the Logistics LAV, and dropship back :( Ive never owned one so please ccp bring them back. If you run proto gear, prepare to suffer the consequences. You've been warned.
Ollurd Gallente Proficiency V 19	Posted - 2014.03.24 00:16:00 - [39] - Quote I agree that 1.9 should be focused on balance but a couple of other small things should be sorted out too. Since we have full racial parity when it comes to suits and rifles, every race should should have their suit matched with their rifle and sidearm. That, plus a little work on more in depth tutorials for new players, and improve the academy. Increasing the academy WP limit shouldn't be too much of a feat, should it? And last but not least, RENAME THE ASSAULT RIFLE TO THE PLASMA RIFLE!!! Just call me OG.
emm kay Federal State Marines Canis Eliminatus Operatives 62	Posted - 2014.03.24 00:26:00 - [40] - Quote support++; -- You called, sir?

Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 158	Posted - 2014.03.24 00:34:00 - [41] - Quote Maybe 1.8.5 with bug and balance fix. Then 1.9 with PvE and Matchmaking, and finally 2.0 with EVE integration, NPE and Racial Parity along with respec. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 ETC- My Initials!!
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 535	Posted - 2014.03.24 01:21:00 - [42] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: Aqil Aegivan wrote: Vell0cet wrote: AV/Vehicle balance is still a major problem. I believe that AV balance will stay a problem until we see changes to game mechanics which cannot be made quickly or by updating values. Otherwise CCP probably would have made some changes already. Part of the point of the current balance was to explore a new dynamic for vehicles and to iterate on that with larger, more costly development when they had the numbers they need. I agree that in the meantime vehicle balance has become an embarrassing joke but the pit CCP have dug for themselves isn't one they can just pave over with a hotfix. They need to develop new mechanics to make this stuff work and the associated outlay requires solid justification (now more than ever). It sucks that this beta testing BS comes at the expense of the player base of a 1+ year old game but that's what people get for not going and playing something with competent designers. Basically there aren't any easy/quick fixes at this point, not even at the expense of temporarily halting the introduction of new features. I'm not sure that's true. I think there are a lot of improvements to be made by just tweaking numbers. Vehicle hardeners are too good, railguns are too good, tanks are a bit too fast. AV nade and swarm damage is too low (I don't know about forges), swarm range is too low. Might want to increase AV nade carry amount and swarm clip size. I'd also like to see blasters changed to be AV rather than AI. That's more controversial and complicated though. If we can get infantry AV back to the point where it's a threat to vehicles then that would improves things a lot. Infantry av was a threat in 1.6, it's no coincidence that 9 is an upside down 6. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Soldiersaint Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 754	Posted - 2014.03.24 02:04:00 - [43] - Quote This game is beyond boring. put fun stuff in first then do the boring trash...i mean balance. we have nothing yet because of you balance obsessed people. we would have had pve already but no you freaking people just want balance. you will never have it.


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]