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Charlotte O'Dell Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 2182	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:38:00 - [1] - Quote Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4011	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:40:00 - [2] - Quote #rarityisbestpony >.> <.< I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
SGT NOVA STAR Ahrendee Mercenaries 223	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:41:00 - [3] - Quote working as intended VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 842	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:42:00 - [4] - Quote I agree. Signed, A scrub tanker
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1595	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:50:00 - [5] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. Come on char you know that at least returning we for vehicle dammage will reduce the amount of quality QQ that is posted on here. It is CCP's way of enforcing their belief that Iit should take a well specked tank to take down a well specked tank and light AV are only there to assist in the destruction of hav's but there to destroy light vehicles whereas heavy AV like the forge gun can still pound tanks if it's one good forge gunner or 2 component forge gunners any tank is mush. Op sick for the win.... Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. Why bother running you'll only die tired.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8358	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:51:00 - [6] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. More people shooting and HAV will do wonders to alleviate the mind set of HAV invulnerability. 2 or 3 people firing on the same target is the antithesis to all lower tiered tankers. I can agree we need some fix to it, but a 15% AV buff is not how we should achieve that. Sure it brings a semblance of balance to HAV but how would that affect LAV and Dropshipper.....and in future MAV? As I see it any fixes need to be made on the end of HAV. I would increase the fitting requirements of hardeners slightly between 5-10%, decrease the active resistances on Shields to 50%, and Armour to 35%, and retain current cycle times. There are possibly some other fixes that can be made that are small and on HAV to bring them more inline with AV values. Frankly speaking I don't believe AV/HAV balance can be achieved through small term fixes like damage buffs, and only when racial parity is achieved can CCP and should CCP set static AV values upon which to balance HAV. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1233	Posted - 2014.03.18 20:07:00 - [7] - Quote Those of us who have been here long enough know that unless an item is considered OP by half of the people in Dust and UP by the other half for at least a month, the item is not balanced. No one has complained the RR is UP, therefore it is OP. No one has complained the SMG is OP or UP, but that's because it's last balancing act was a LONG time ago and those posts are long gone already. The AR occasionally get's a thread here and there, but they are all UP threads, showing that is is in need of slight upward tweaking. Before 1.7 the threads were a hazy mix of both sides on V vs AV. There were some AV elements that were crazy good, and some that were pathetically bad. The problem was that instead of rebalancing what was already in-game, CCP changed the whole system up and started over. Now that we are here..... no real tankers are complaining about tanks being UP right now. Forum Palm Reading lvl 8 MAG ~ Raven
Charlotte O'Dell Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 2191	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:46:00 - [8] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Those of us who have been here long enough know that unless an item is considered OP by half of the people in Dust and UP by the other half for at least a month, the item is not balanced. No one has complained the RR is UP, therefore it is OP. No one has complained the SMG is OP or UP, but that's because it's last balancing act was a LONG time ago and those posts are long gone already. The AR occasionally get's a thread here and there, but they are all UP threads, showing that is is in need of slight upward tweaking. Before 1.7 the threads were a hazy mix of both sides on V vs AV. There were some AV elements that were crazy good, and some that were pathetically bad. The problem was that instead of rebalancing what was already in-game, CCP changed the whole system up and started over. Now that we are here..... no real tankers are complaining about tanks being UP right now. Forum Palm Reading lvl 8 Which is why they're OP. So OP!!!! How can tanks be balanced without MAVs. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 505	Posted - 2014.03.18 21:58:00 - [9] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. being an av'er I totally agree w/ you O'Dell. Only thing I'd change, as I think we need adv/proto vehicles as well, and with that probably a 25-30% damage increase across the board to av. On side note, i personally think b/t you, me, dark cloud, judge, alldin and maybe one or two others, e could balance av-v in a months time. Maybe ccp should hire us Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 723	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:06:00 - [10] - Quote i think that new wp for damage done to vehicle is going to give logis some competition.. and also bring in alot more orbitals..

Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 149	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:24:00 - [11] - Quote Once we get all the AV weapons and Racial Vehicles, they should efficiency damage bonus like, 15% damage increase to HAV, 10% to MAV, and 0% to LAV( Damage to LAV would stay the same as now.) Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 ETC- My Initials!!
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1400	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:56:00 - [12] - Quote Wp for vehicle damage means we can now farm warpoints by shooting the tank spam with militia swarms from up high this WILL be the return of people running AV everywhere for tons of free WPs, what AV is unknown as we dont know wich one will give the most WP for the effort.
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 149	Posted - 2014.03.18 22:58:00 - [13] - Quote There could even be racial bonuses to these such as, Minmatar AV 2% bonus to HAV. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 ETC- My Initials!!
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1401	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:03:00 - [14] - Quote th eplayers have proven that they are willing to bring out 4 swarms 3 tanks and 2 forges to deal with a single dropship becuase its fun to kill it. thats overkill for killing off tanks, and now that they will get WP for damage they may actually bring out at least half of the AV used against dropships and point it towards tanks, and thats more then enough .
The Terminator T-1000 Skynet Incorporated 214	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:06:00 - [15] - Quote For sure it will not change the way i play. Id rather stay away from tanks and not die than collect a few wp
Henrietta Unknown Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 51	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:12:00 - [16] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: #rarityisbestpony >.> <.< Second that. I'd say what some are saying: AV should have different damage outputs depending on the vehicle. Percentages will suck because it renders ADV and PROTO vehicles useless.
Charlotte O'Dell Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 2196	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:13:00 - [17] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. being an av'er I totally agree w/ you O'Dell. Only thing I'd change, as I think we need adv/proto vehicles as well, and with that probably a 25-30% damage increase across the board to av. On side note, i personally think b/t you, me, dark cloud, judge, alldin and maybe one or two others, e could balance av-v in a months time. Maybe ccp should hire us I agree. Hardened tanks are just fine the way they are. The problem is that shield tanks can permaharden and even tanks without hardeners cannot be killed. This means tankers who do not pay attention to the battlefield or properly manage their mods are not punished for being bad. It needs to go back to the way it was where tanks sucked for 90% of those who tried them but the top 10% were legendary. It had nothing to do with sp but 100% percent to do with being cautious. Tanks should not be mobile fortress. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2209	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:13:00 - [18] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. What the hell Charlotte? You want to buff AV so that the ratio of Tank:AV is more balanced? I'm Sorry, but can someone please direct me back to my universe, I think I made a wrong turn at the black hole V4641. Whatever next Spkr4thedead is going to declare he's changing to a career as logistics dropship pilot because he wants to help other people? Anywho Charlotte I think 15% will be a bit much all in 1 go. Raise it by 5% and up the profciency bonus to +5% per level. Then see how that works. Plasma Cannons and Swarm Launchers would become incredibly prelevant against their relevant tank. Also while no Infantry AV, increase direct damage (to vehicles only) for light turrets to encourage the use of other "legitimate" means of disposing of tanks, without tanks. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8374	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:16:00 - [19] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Berserker007 wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. being an av'er I totally agree w/ you O'Dell. Only thing I'd change, as I think we need adv/proto vehicles as well, and with that probably a 25-30% damage increase across the board to av. On side note, i personally think b/t you, me, dark cloud, judge, alldin and maybe one or two others, e could balance av-v in a months time. Maybe ccp should hire us I agree. Hardened tanks are just fine the way they are. The problem is that shield tanks can permaharden and even tanks without hardeners cannot be killed. This means tankers who do not pay attention to the battlefield or properly manage their mods are not punished for being bad. It needs to go back to the way it was where tanks sucked for 90% of those who tried them but the top 10% were legendary. It had nothing to do with sp but 100% percent to do with being cautious. Tanks should not be mobile fortress. Why are you balancing AV around tanks? Vehicles should be balanced around AV. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Charlotte O'Dell Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 2196	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:17:00 - [20] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. What the hell Charlotte? You want to buff AV so that the ratio of Tank:AV is more balanced? I'm Sorry, but can someone please direct me back to my universe, I think I made a wrong turn at the black hole V4641. Whatever next Spkr4thedead is going to declare he's changing to a career as logistics dropship pilot because he wants to help other people? Anywho Charlotte I think 15% will be a bit much all in 1 go. Raise it by 5% and up the profciency bonus to +5% per level. Then see how that works. Plasma Cannons and Swarm Launchers would become incredibly prelevant against their relevant tank. Also while no Infantry AV, increase direct damage (to vehicles only) for light turrets to encourage the use of other "legitimate" means of disposing of tanks, without tanks. Totally disagree. When a gunlogi has 2, let alone 3 hardeners running, a wiki breach doesn't even get noticed. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!

Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 656	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:26:00 - [21] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: There could even be racial bonuses to these such as, Minmatar AV 2% bonus to HAV. That would be cool. You could just have 2% more HAV. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Royce Kronos Sanguis Defense Syndicate 143	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:35:00 - [22] - Quote I agree that there need to be some AV balance, but it cannot come in a straight buff to AV. There need to be some expansion in the process. There was a really good post about AV and debuff's to vehicles that is pretty nice. The problem with a straight 15% buff to damage is that now Dropships and LAV's will be one shotted. They should really make AV specific to vehicles, ie Forge Gun vs. Tanks, Swarms Vs. Dropships / LAV's. Swarms could have a bonus per level to missile velocity so as to run down Dropships and LAV's, but a very slight damage increase as to make them weaker against Tanks. Forge's should get a slight increase in damage to Tanks, but Dropships should have a bonus resistance to Railgun damage. That's just off the top of my head, but idea's in that way will make it so that you have to use different types of AV against different types of vehicles, but the wrong AV is not necessarily useless. Anyway, that's just my .02 ISK. The future belongs to the few of us still willing to get our hands dirty. SDSyn
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 150	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:40:00 - [23] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Forever ETC wrote: There could even be racial bonuses to these such as, Minmatar AV 2% bonus to HAV. That would be cool. You could just have 2% more HAV. Yes, my proposal is to buff AV against tanks but not against LAV. This would allow racial AV bonuses such as the one I used. Minmatar AV weapons have 2% more damage against HAV, so they would have 17%. EX: Minmatar AV weapon base damage 1000 Against HAV: 1000 to 1150 due to AV bonus, plus 2% due to Min. AV bonus so 1170 damage.(not sure if stacking would be applied) Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 ETC- My Initials!!
DootDoot Da Short Buss 285	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:40:00 - [24] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. Could and might. I doubt it though. Chromosome time EVERYONE had AV grenades on their fit... There where maybe a handful that weren't running AV grenades full time on their fits.. WHy ? because it was effective and got you points and kills... This is the incentive alot of the AV'ers where talking about... Where there is a reason to run AV grenades.. or an AV option full time on your suit... If the reward scale makes sense... No more will tankers drive into highly infantry populated area's and not have 6-12 AV grenades raining down on them... With commandos possibly having more pressence on the battlefield there might be a couple more PLC's and Swarms sitting in the groups aswell.. The main idea and reasoning behind this is not to nerf tanks. But give incentives to players to always have an answer on them for vehicles.
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 150	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:46:00 - [25] - Quote Royce Kronos wrote: I agree that there need to be some AV balance, but it cannot come in a straight buff to AV. There need to be some expansion in the process. There was a really good post about AV and debuff's to vehicles that is pretty nice. The problem with a straight 15% buff to damage is that now Dropships and LAV's will be one shotted. They should really make AV specific to vehicles, ie Forge Gun vs. Tanks, Swarms Vs. Dropships / LAV's. Swarms could have a bonus per level to missile velocity so as to run down Dropships and LAV's, but a very slight damage increase as to make them weaker against Tanks. Forge's should get a slight increase in damage to Tanks, but Dropships should have a bonus resistance to Railgun damage. That's just off the top of my head, but idea's in that way will make it so that you have to use different types of AV against different types of vehicles, but the wrong AV is not necessarily useless. Anyway, that's just my .02 ISK. Read my proposal, it buffs AV but does not one shot dropships and jeeps. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 ETC- My Initials!!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8377	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:53:00 - [26] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Forever ETC wrote: There could even be racial bonuses to these such as, Minmatar AV 2% bonus to HAV. That would be cool. You could just have 2% more HAV. Yes, my proposal is to buff AV against tanks but not against LAV. This would allow racial AV bonuses such as the one I used. Minmatar AV weapons have 2% more damage against HAV, so they would have 17%. EX: Minmatar AV weapon base damage 1000 Against HAV: 1000 to 1150 due to AV bonus, plus 2% due to Min. AV bonus so 1170 damage.(not sure if stacking would be applied) Thats a terrible idea. How do you rationally legitimise weapons designed to penetrate tank armour of shields not doing equivalent damage to lighter vehicles? This is something I will always oppose. E.G- A rail gun is designed to penetrate tank armour, and it does, why then does it not penetrate LAV or dropship armour? " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Beld Errmon Nyain Chan 1441	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:53:00 - [27] - Quote pointless thread, the damage WP change isn't being introduced to balance tank VS AV, it has been added to reward players that manage to dmg vehicles but not kill them, as a tanker and pilot i've seen dogged players spend an entire match trying to kill me and or protect their team mates from me, at the end of the match they are at the bottom of the score board with multiple deaths and no WPs despite doing a great job, this change couldn't have come sooner.
Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 147	Posted - 2014.03.18 23:56:00 - [28] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. 15% buff to everything would just create a new imbalance... Balance the hardeners, the armour rep and the large turrets instead. Also if nothing else, the extra SP for a tank running away will make me happy : )
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 150	Posted - 2014.03.19 00:05:00 - [29] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Forever ETC wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Forever ETC wrote: There could even be racial bonuses to these such as, Minmatar AV 2% bonus to HAV. That would be cool. You could just have 2% more HAV. Yes, my proposal is to buff AV against tanks but not against LAV. This would allow racial AV bonuses such as the one I used. Minmatar AV weapons have 2% more damage against HAV, so they would have 17%. EX: Minmatar AV weapon base damage 1000 Against HAV: 1000 to 1150 due to AV bonus, plus 2% due to Min. AV bonus so 1170 damage.(not sure if stacking would be applied) Thats a terrible idea. How do you rationally legitimise weapons designed to penetrate tank armour of shields not doing equivalent damage to lighter vehicles? This is something I will always oppose. E.G- A rail gun is designed to penetrate tank armour, and it does, why then does it not penetrate LAV or dropship armour? My proposal was that AV would get 15% damage bonus to HAV, 10% to MAV, and 0% to LAV. Please provide constructive feedback, how would you balance this. I am trying to get people to read my proposal, since no one agrees with the direct 15% AV buff. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 ETC- My Initials!!
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 167	Posted - 2014.03.19 00:10:00 - [30] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. More people shooting and HAV will do wonders to alleviate the mind set of HAV invulnerability. 2 or 3 people firing on the same target is the antithesis to all lower tiered tankers. I can agree we need some fix to it, but a 15% AV buff is not how we should achieve that. Sure it brings a semblance of balance to HAV but how would that affect LAV and Dropshipper.....and in future MAV? As I see it any fixes need to be made on the end of HAV. I would increase the fitting requirements of hardeners slightly between 5-10%, decrease the active resistances on Shields to 50%, and Armour to 35%, and retain current cycle times. There are possibly some other fixes that can be made that are small and on HAV to bring them more inline with AV values. Frankly speaking I don't believe AV/HAV balance can be achieved through small term fixes like damage buffs, and only when racial parity is achieved can CCP and should CCP set static AV values upon which to balance HAV. do you know what antithesis means? i think the word you are looking for is nemesis. antithesis is a polar opposite, nemesis is an archenemy Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5863	Posted - 2014.03.19 00:16:00 - [31] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Come on char you know that at least returning we for vehicle dammage will reduce the amount of quality QQ that is posted on here. It is CCP's way of enforcing their belief that Iit should take a well specked tank to take down a well specked tank and light AV are only there to assist in the destruction of hav's but there to destroy light vehicles whereas heavy AV like the forge gun can still pound tanks if it's one good forge gunner or 2 component forge gunners any tank is mush. Op sick for the win.... What belief? Link a CCP Developer saying that or your argument falls apart. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Dimmu Borgir II The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 255	Posted - 2014.03.19 00:21:00 - [32] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. How many WP's for how much damage are we talking about??! I often take out tanks with my AV scout but also often nearly take them out when they put on their hardeners and shoot off into the sunset... it will be nice if I get rewarded for that near kill, it'll also be nice that i'll get rewarded when someone else steals my tank kill by throwing a pebble at it before i can switch to my breach MD to finish him off after taking him down to 200 armor. Blue is good, red is bad, orange you glad you're not red?
Dimmu Borgir II The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 255	Posted - 2014.03.19 00:36:00 - [33] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: pointless thread, the damage WP change isn't being introduced to balance tank VS AV, it has been added to reward players that manage to dmg vehicles but not kill them, as a tanker and pilot i've seen dogged players spend an entire match trying to kill me and or protect their team mates from me, at the end of the match they are at the bottom of the score board with multiple deaths and no WPs despite doing a great job, this change couldn't have come sooner. From a tank-chaser, this ^ is perfect... +1 Blue is good, red is bad, orange you glad you're not red?
Xer0 Zexeroth Ultramarine Corp 26	Posted - 2014.03.19 00:42:00 - [34] - Quote I'm a random noob, and I support this message. Seasoned Dropship Pilot waiting for Jets and Hoverbikes...
Royce Kronos Sanguis Defense Syndicate 143	Posted - 2014.03.19 01:20:00 - [35] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Forever ETC wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Forever ETC wrote: There could even be racial bonuses to these such as, Minmatar AV 2% bonus to HAV. That would be cool. You could just have 2% more HAV. Yes, my proposal is to buff AV against tanks but not against LAV. This would allow racial AV bonuses such as the one I used. Minmatar AV weapons have 2% more damage against HAV, so they would have 17%. EX: Minmatar AV weapon base damage 1000 Against HAV: 1000 to 1150 due to AV bonus, plus 2% due to Min. AV bonus so 1170 damage.(not sure if stacking would be applied) Thats a terrible idea. How do you rationally legitimise weapons designed to penetrate tank armour of shields not doing equivalent damage to lighter vehicles? This is something I will always oppose. E.G- A rail gun is designed to penetrate tank armour, and it does, why then does it not penetrate LAV or dropship armour? One way to do it would be to increase the size of the Forge Gun bolt. In essence the gun does the same amount of damage however, it need a big target to actually apply all the damage. Since LAV's and Dropships have less mass than HAV's, you could say that any Rail Gun hit on something less than a Heavy Vehicle is always doing a glancing blow. Eve has a similar mechanic, in that larger ship's turrets have a slower tracking speed, thus they can't apply as much damage to smaller moving targets. That one way to justify it. The future belongs to the few of us still willing to get our hands dirty. SDSyn
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion League of Infamy 353	Posted - 2014.03.19 01:20:00 - [36] - Quote I'm with Adamance on this. Reduce the effectiveness of hardeners. They're way too good. Reduce their % and AV gets a step closer to where it needs to be, people stop stacking hardeners quite so much and the other modules start to compete better for usefulness. Do this and then wait and see how it works with infantry AV. Then take the appropriate next steps - maybe infantry AV damage, range, clip size etc.
Michael-J-Fox Richards Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 81	Posted - 2014.03.19 01:35:00 - [37] - Quote it wont, it wont change a damn thing except for a few noobs at the bottom of the leaderboard at the end of the match having a few extra dozen WP than what they normally would have had. because they tried to use militia swarms against a tank or two you get how much WP for destroying a tank? its been a while since i played what is it like 100? how much WP are we really gonna get, 10 maybe 20 WP for a volley of swarms irregardless of what level they are or a forge gun hit (and thats generous in my pessemistic mind), get real what a joke i see all these people hyped up like it means something, like its gonna make people so juicy jazzed up to pull out AV when you can just stick someone with a needle, use a rep tool or get a regular ol kill etc, it aint gonna mean **** adding WP to damaging vehicles is only gonna make the tankers have more WP at the end of the match from getting one railgun shot off at a tank. boom they got vehicle damage, enemy tank backs off, recharges, pops back out, boom they get another set of WP damage, then eventually they kill the tank, now that means they got the WP from killing the tank and a few extra from the little battle that took place before it everybody wanna complain about the assault bonus' that one scout bonus or whatever, adding the WP for damaging tanks aint nothing to complain about but thats because its just so fuckin worthless theres no reason to, they shouldnt have even spent the time, effort or energy to put it back in the game, even if all they had to do was click a few buttons to do it it is by far the lamest most worthless effort at anything in the history of all times http://i40.tinypic.com/33w8wtd.jpg http://i60.tinypic.com/29w7g29.jpg Assault Dropship Pilot
Rusty Shallows 1157	Posted - 2014.03.19 01:58:00 - [38] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: snip Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. Something about it just doesn't seem real. Anyone who has played this game for more than one build knows what to expect from CCP and for once this isn't it. Any-hoo someday we are going get a go "Prone" feature. On that day I'm going to: Find O'Dell Go prone in front of his HAV Take a picture do the Kill-Splash Screen Frame and hang it on my wall I truly love the people on these forums. A very interesting bunch. Here, have some candy and a Like. :-) Forums > Game
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2210	Posted - 2014.03.19 07:21:00 - [39] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Hey friends, I'm a tanker and tanks are OP. I honestly believe that more people shooting at tanks will do nothing to even half competing scrub tankers. I have bested highly coordinated teams of AV in complex attacks due to 2 hardeners and a nitro booster. Sure, there are a few amazing forgers out there who rip my 466k fits apart with no problem, but I could do that with tanks prior 1.6- didn't mean it was balanced. Tanks shouldn't be something only the richest and most skilled players can profit from and neither should AV. If we could buff all AV dmg 15% in 1.9, that'd be a good start to fixing the imbalance. Otherwise, I like the patch notes...except for how bad the assault suits will be. What the hell Charlotte? You want to buff AV so that the ratio of Tank:AV is more balanced? I'm Sorry, but can someone please direct me back to my universe, I think I made a wrong turn at the black hole V4641. Whatever next Spkr4thedead is going to declare he's changing to a career as logistics dropship pilot because he wants to help other people? Anywho Charlotte I think 15% will be a bit much all in 1 go. Raise it by 5% and up the profciency bonus to +5% per level. Then see how that works. Plasma Cannons and Swarm Launchers would become incredibly prelevant against their relevant tank. Also while no Infantry AV, increase direct damage (to vehicles only) for light turrets to encourage the use of other "legitimate" means of disposing of tanks, without tanks. Totally disagree. When a gunlogi has 2, let alone 3 hardeners running, a wiki breach doesn't even get noticed. Your allowed to disagree but do you not feel that really it should take a shield based weapon to destroy a Shield baseed tank. By upping the proficiency of AV weapons we can make AV more powerful with a reduced chance of overpowering them. If the enemy trurns up in Gunnlogi I should expect to have to pull out a Plasma or Laser Based weapon. By increasing the bonus's a Plasma Cannon would hit for 135% to Shields but only 90% to Armour. While a laser would hit for a staggering 145% to shields but only 80% to Armour. Improves power of AV but at the same time adds another level of complexity. Also if your concerned about the loss of damage mods a 5% damage buff would be enough to start, then we can look at other options. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
SPESHULz The Southern Legion 43	Posted - 2014.03.19 07:37:00 - [40] - Quote if you reduce hardeners you need to reduce dam mods too by removing all the militia havs and turrets and raising tank hull cost there would be half the tanks running around giving av a chance to actually concentrate on one tank and kill it before another one comes and kills them. Blood flows. Death comes. War rages. Maths is OP. It is all those numbers that kills you. Forum Warrior lvl 0.02



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