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Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1230	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:04:00 - [1] - Quote You nerfed our swarms. You are nerfing them again when they are already borderline useless by changing their proficiency skill. Then you are double nerfing them by also nerfing damage mods. AV grenades, PLCs and forge guns are taking hits as well. Is your plan for vehicles to never die and AV players are to just farm vehicle damage points all match unless hit by JLAV's? Or is there something deeper that I'm not seeing? MAG ~ Raven
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 1970	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:07:00 - [2] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: You nerfed our swarms. You are nerfing them again when they are already borderline useless by changing their proficiency skill. Then you are double nerfing them by also nerfing damage mods. AV grenades, PLCs and forge guns are taking hits as well. Is your plan for vehicles to never die and AV players are to just farm vehicle damage points all match unless hit by JLAV's? Or is there something deeper that I'm not seeing? No you are seeing it right. Allahu jeepbar Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 327	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:19:00 - [3] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: What is your plan here CCP? I don't see it. You nerfed our swarms. You are nerfing them again when they are already borderline useless by changing their proficiency skill. Then you are double nerfing them by also nerfing damage mods. AV grenades, PLCs and forge guns are taking hits as well. Not to mention you are nerfing our SMG, the only sidearm many AVers have specced into. Is your plan for vehicles to never die and AV players are to just farm vehicle damage points all match while dodging infantry unless the vehicle is hit by JLAV's? Or is there something deeper that I'm not seeing? Ok ill say this about you av guys...You are all damn annoying on the field. regardless of if you kill my vehicles, if i have to back off im not doing a damn thing in the match, which is boring. Do think infantry charge my 500k piece of hardware constantly? Very rarely they do. I also run missiles...pretty hard to actually hit infantry with them and i get a few chances before a rather long reload. Anyway point is this. A wp bonus for doing damage is a hell of a buff to you guys, cause you will actually stay fielded... Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Sidearms are terribly underestimated.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 1537	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:27:00 - [4] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: What is your plan here CCP? I don't see it. You nerfed our swarms. You are nerfing them again when they are already borderline useless by changing their proficiency skill. Then you are double nerfing them by also nerfing damage mods. AV grenades, PLCs and forge guns are taking hits as well. Not to mention you are nerfing our SMG, the only sidearm many AVers have specced into. Is your plan for vehicles to never die and AV players are to just farm vehicle damage points all match while dodging infantry unless the vehicle is hit by JLAV's? Or is there something deeper that I'm not seeing? Ok ill say this about you av guys...You are all damn annoying on the field. regardless of if you kill my vehicles, if i have to back off im not doing a damn thing in the match, which is boring. Do think infantry charge my 500k piece of hardware constantly? Very rarely they do. I also run missiles...pretty hard to actually hit infantry with them and i get a few chances before a rather long reload. Anyway point is this. A wp bonus for doing damage is a hell of a buff to you guys, cause you will actually stay fielded... LOL. "Now you guys get to see pretty numbers appear on your screen for attempting to kill me! What a buff, amirite!? Oh, don't worry, I'll still be decimating your team every match in my now all-but-unkillable tank!." Let me play you the song of my people!
The Terminator T-1000 Skynet Incorporated 209	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:29:00 - [5] - Quote Im going into tanks. I can get over 1000 wp per match without dying. Not bad
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5852	Posted - 2014.03.18 18:33:00 - [6] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: Ok ill say this about you av guys...You are all damn annoying on the field. regardless of if you kill my vehicles, You should get yourself checked. You might have a bad case of the scrubs. Ivy Zalinto wrote: if i have to back off im not doing a damn thing in the match, which is boring. Do think infantry charge my 500k piece of hardware constantly? Very rarely they do. If your running a 500k HAV in a PUB, you should probably refer to my above statement. Do you think going on point defense with a Swarm because a tanker is too much of a *** to come fight is fun? Do you think they charge my 5000HP Proximity Trap constantly? Ivy Zalinto wrote: I also run missiles...pretty hard to actually hit infantry with them and i get a few chances before a rather long reload. Perhaps you should run a Blaster? Ivy Zalinto wrote:** Anyway point is this. A wp bonus for doing damage is a hell of a buff to you guys, cause you will actually stay fielded... Yay! Despite the fact that our weapons will do almost nothing to kill the tank (God bless anyone on AV if it's a Gunnlogi) we'll get WP for doing.... Nothing. But how convenient. A tanker claiming this as a buff because they will effectively never die or risk their vehicles again (implying they did before). AV still has to risk their stuff while Pilots only have to watch their back for a Railgun or XT-1. Thanks for the buff CCP. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1231	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:17:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ivy Zalinto wrote: Ok ill say this about you av guys...You are all damn annoying on the field. regardless of if you kill my vehicles, You should get yourself checked. You might have a bad case of the scrubs. Ivy Zalinto wrote: if i have to back off im not doing a damn thing in the match, which is boring. Do think infantry charge my 500k piece of hardware constantly? Very rarely they do. If your running a 500k HAV in a PUB, you should probably refer to my above statement. Do you think going on point defense with a Swarm because a tanker is too much of a *** to come fight is fun? Do you think they charge my 5000HP Proximity Trap constantly? Ivy Zalinto wrote: I also run missiles...pretty hard to actually hit infantry with them and i get a few chances before a rather long reload. Perhaps you should run a Blaster? Ivy Zalinto wrote:** Anyway point is this. A wp bonus for doing damage is a hell of a buff to you guys, cause you will actually stay fielded... Yay! Despite the fact that our weapons will do almost nothing to kill the tank (God bless anyone on AV if it's a Gunnlogi) we'll get WP for doing.... Nothing. But how convenient. A tanker claiming this as a buff because they will effectively never die or risk their vehicles again (implying they did before). AV still has to risk their stuff while Pilots only have to watch their back for a Railgun or XT-1. Thanks for the buff CCP. ^This. Waiting for a bluetag response. MAG ~ Raven
trollface dot jpg The Bacon Corporation 159	Posted - 2014.03.19 08:00:00 - [8] - Quote ..... this makes me sooooo sad.... RIP MAG, you will be missed. MAG Vet ~ Raven
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 476	Posted - 2014.03.19 08:06:00 - [9] - Quote In for dev explanation Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Waiyu Ren Seeker of The Path 56	Posted - 2014.03.19 08:20:00 - [10] - Quote I actually tried AV during the weekend. I only used Mlt Swarms so i wasn't expecting much, but seeing that Dropship take missiles until i had 0/0 without so much as losing 1/5 of it's shield... Man, that was an eye opener. Before, i used to think that HAV/DS were annoying, but not brokenly so. My apologies AV guys. Shouting doesn't make your opinion seem more valid, it just makes you seem more annoying.

Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 885	Posted - 2014.03.19 08:31:00 - [11] - Quote Imbalanced it is. Until such time as the balance returns, I shall do my best to hunt down the scrubs abusing my precious vehicles. Best PVE idea I've seen.
Ayures II Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 562	Posted - 2014.03.19 09:23:00 - [12] - Quote Waiyu Ren wrote: I actually tried AV during the weekend. I only used Mlt Swarms so i wasn't expecting much, but seeing that Dropship take missiles until i had 0/0 without so much as losing 1/5 of it's shield... Man, that was an eye opener. Before, i used to think that HAV/DS were annoying, but not brokenly so. My apologies AV guys. You used a fit that costs maybe 10k and you're upset that you couldn't solo something that likely costs at least 10 times that? Am I the only one seeing this?
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1256	Posted - 2014.03.19 09:28:00 - [13] - Quote Ayures II wrote: Waiyu Ren wrote: I actually tried AV during the weekend. I only used Mlt Swarms so i wasn't expecting much, but seeing that Dropship take missiles until i had 0/0 without so much as losing 1/5 of it's shield... Man, that was an eye opener. Before, i used to think that HAV/DS were annoying, but not brokenly so. My apologies AV guys. You used a fit that costs maybe 10k and you're upset that you couldn't solo something that likely costs at least 10 times that? Am I the only one seeing this? No, but you are the only one saying militia swarms shouldn't kill militia dropships. MAG ~ Raven
Ayures II Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 562	Posted - 2014.03.19 09:35:00 - [14] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Ayures II wrote: Waiyu Ren wrote: I actually tried AV during the weekend. I only used Mlt Swarms so i wasn't expecting much, but seeing that Dropship take missiles until i had 0/0 without so much as losing 1/5 of it's shield... Man, that was an eye opener. Before, i used to think that HAV/DS were annoying, but not brokenly so. My apologies AV guys. You used a fit that costs maybe 10k and you're upset that you couldn't solo something that likely costs at least 10 times that? Am I the only one seeing this? No, but you are the only one saying militia swarms shouldn't kill militia dropships. I'm fine with that as long as militia dropships cost as much as militia dropsuits. Hey, let's make tanks cost the same, too!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1257	Posted - 2014.03.19 11:21:00 - [15] - Quote Ayures II wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Ayures II wrote: Waiyu Ren wrote: I actually tried AV during the weekend. I only used Mlt Swarms so i wasn't expecting much, but seeing that Dropship take missiles until i had 0/0 without so much as losing 1/5 of it's shield... Man, that was an eye opener. Before, i used to think that HAV/DS were annoying, but not brokenly so. My apologies AV guys. You used a fit that costs maybe 10k and you're upset that you couldn't solo something that likely costs at least 10 times that? Am I the only one seeing this? No, but you are the only one saying militia swarms shouldn't kill militia dropships. I'm fine with that as long as militia dropships cost as much as militia dropsuits. Hey, let's make tanks cost the same, too! The costs differ because their potentials differ, but cost is not a measure of effectiveness except withing the tiers of the same item. A militia swarm should kill a militia dropship/tank/LAV within a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise there is no point in there being a militia swarm launcher. We had this discussion back when tanks were over 1mil a piece, cost is not a judge of strength but of potential. For instance, a dropship can be fitted with a mobile CRU and continuously drop in fresh clones as people die off. It can hover above an engagement and support it's team with it's turrets. It can fly to hard-to-reach heights and drop people with uplinks and forge guns on roofs. It's 99% immune to 100% of non-AV weaponry and with a booster can fly from one side of the longest map to the other in about 10 seconds.. And that's just the basic potential for the Militia dropship. And for that potential, you pay more for it than you do a dropsuit that can kill you while you attempt to do these things. Or at least that's the idea. As it is, even with proto swarms with proficiency 5 it takes 2-4 shots to kill most unspecced militia dropships. A militia swarm (the one that should be on even grounds with the militia dropship) doesn't stand a chance. MAG ~ Raven
Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 630	Posted - 2014.03.19 11:22:00 - [16] - Quote Hopefully they fix AV so I can resume my role as the best tank spankin', infantry gankin' heavy this side of the Molden Heath. Unleash the Fogwoggler
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 777	Posted - 2014.03.19 11:33:00 - [17] - Quote Ayures II wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Ayures II wrote: Waiyu Ren wrote: I actually tried AV during the weekend. I only used Mlt Swarms so i wasn't expecting much, but seeing that Dropship take missiles until i had 0/0 without so much as losing 1/5 of it's shield... Man, that was an eye opener. Before, i used to think that HAV/DS were annoying, but not brokenly so. My apologies AV guys. You used a fit that costs maybe 10k and you're upset that you couldn't solo something that likely costs at least 10 times that? Am I the only one seeing this? No, but you are the only one saying militia swarms shouldn't kill militia dropships. I'm fine with that as long as militia dropships cost as much as militia dropsuits. Hey, let's make tanks cost the same, too! ISK is not a balancing factor otherwise Protosuits should be invulnerable to starter or militia gear, just imagine how boring this would be oh I forget that's the only way Pilots seem to enjoy dust. Regarding Dropships they should be placed at a similar pricetag like militia HAV's maybe sightly more expensive, the current price difference is imho not justified.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1259	Posted - 2014.03.19 12:04:00 - [18] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Ayures II wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Ayures II wrote: Waiyu Ren wrote: I actually tried AV during the weekend. I only used Mlt Swarms so i wasn't expecting much, but seeing that Dropship take missiles until i had 0/0 without so much as losing 1/5 of it's shield... Man, that was an eye opener. Before, i used to think that HAV/DS were annoying, but not brokenly so. My apologies AV guys. You used a fit that costs maybe 10k and you're upset that you couldn't solo something that likely costs at least 10 times that? Am I the only one seeing this? No, but you are the only one saying militia swarms shouldn't kill militia dropships. I'm fine with that as long as militia dropships cost as much as militia dropsuits. Hey, let's make tanks cost the same, too! ISK is not a balancing factor otherwise Protosuits should be invulnerable to starter or militia gear, just imagine how boring this would be oh I forget that's the only way Pilots seem to enjoy dust. Regarding Dropships they should be placed at a similar pricetag like militia HAV's maybe sightly more expensive, the current price difference is imho not justified. ^ This MAG ~ Raven
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1175	Posted - 2014.03.19 12:42:00 - [19] - Quote Apparently it's working as intended !!!
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 330	Posted - 2014.03.19 15:24:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: You should get yourself checked. You might have a bad case of the scrubs. Attim, Im suprised at you. I know you know better than this. Im making a positive post and you just call me a scrub. I mean it, this is actually a suprise. Why not a constructive debate rather than a insult. Atiim wrote: If your running a 500k HAV in a PUB, you should probably refer to my above statement. I cannot play planatery conquest due to my small group not having a place in space yet. Maybe eventually but not at the moment.The same can be said about people using 200k proto suits in a pub game. It happens all the damn time hm? Atiim wrote: Do you think going on point defense with a Swarm because a tanker is too much of a *** to come fight is fun? Do you think they charge my 5000HP Proximity Trap constantly? Isnt that av's job? To keep the tanks away from the rest of the groups? Also, proximity traps are generally so badly placed that their laughable and free points. Atiim wrote: Perhaps you should run a Blaster? Use a very very unbalanced weapon that has no real use against other tanks? Thanks but no thanks. Id rather hunt other tanks with the missiles. Id rather not ruin infantry constantly. Atiim wrote:** Yay! Despite the fact that our weapons will do almost nothing to kill the tank (God bless anyone on AV if it's a Gunnlogi) we'll get WP for doing.... Nothing. But how convenient. A tanker claiming this as a buff because they will effectively never die or risk their vehicles again (implying they did before). AV still has to risk their stuff while Pilots only have to watch their back for a Railgun or XT-1. Thanks for the buff CCP. Would you rather get nothing for your effort? At least now you will get rewarded for attacking vehicles. Av seems to kill cars and ships very efficiently, and a team of people has wrecked my tanks a few times. Generally a forge shot to drop my shields and get me into the crispy tasty armor. I actually do run a gunnlogi. Anyway, see you on the field mate. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Sidearms are terribly underestimated.

calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2179	Posted - 2014.03.19 15:32:00 - [21] - Quote really....tanks still think av is fine...sigh...all right then -.-
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1265	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:17:00 - [22] - Quote calisk galern wrote: really....tanks still think av is fine...sigh...all right then -.- At least CharChar is on our side.... MAG ~ Raven
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 323	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:25:00 - [23] - Quote Waiyu Ren wrote: I actually tried AV during the weekend. I only used Mlt Swarms so i wasn't expecting much, but seeing that Dropship take missiles until i had 0/0 without so much as losing 1/5 of it's shield... Man, that was an eye opener. Before, i used to think that HAV/DS were annoying, but not brokenly so. My apologies AV guys. You can watch them regenerating faster than you can shoot them with MLT swarms. Theoretically with the damage points in 1.8 you can farm points by just shooting one tank the entire match, you'll never even get him into armor. Because, that's why.
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 984	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:25:00 - [24] - Quote The point of infantry av, when working solo, is to damage the vehicle enough to force it to retreat so infantry can continue on their way. When you have teamwork you take down vehicles quickly. This can be a combination of swarms forges plasma cannons or other vehicles. Put some av in a lav with a rail gun and you have a good vehicle hunter team.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12333	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:28:00 - [25] - Quote I think they have more weapons lined up for the fanfest build, including anti shield AV. Or at least, that's what I hope they have planned Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5898	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:30:00 - [26] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: The point of infantry av, when working solo, is to damage the vehicle enough to force it to retreat so infantry can continue on their way. When you have teamwork you take down vehicles quickly. This can be a combination of swarms forges plasma cannons or other vehicles. Put some av in a lav with a rail gun and you have a good vehicle hunter team. So basically the point of infantry AV is to break CCP's risk/reward on a 1:1 ratio? Link a CCP quote or go home please. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 288	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:30:00 - [27] - Quote To be blunt, anyone with real Forge Gun skill isn't going to have much of a problem, even against Caldari vehicles. Make that two Forge Gunners and they'll be able to take on almost any tank together. Four Forge Gunners will annihilate the enemy's vehicles altogether. I've spent most of my waking life playing video games. Don't think your SP being higher than my 17M makes you better >:)
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1268	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:40:00 - [28] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: The point of infantry av, when working solo, is to damage the vehicle enough to force it to retreat so infantry can continue on their way. When you have teamwork you take down vehicles quickly. This can be a combination of swarms forges plasma cannons or other vehicles. Put some av in a lav with a rail gun and you have a good vehicle hunter team. 3 AV players in a LAV chasing tanks amounts to nothing mor than 190wp for the first railtank that sees you. MAG ~ Raven
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5898	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:42:00 - [29] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: 3 AV players in a LAV chasing tanks amounts to nothing mor than 190wp for the first railtank that sees you. I can confirm that this is true. Though you guys almost got me when my tank was stuck. Too bad that Railgun Installation killed me anyways AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
echo47 Minmatar Republic 238	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:43:00 - [30] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: The point of infantry av, when working solo, is to damage the vehicle enough to force it to retreat so infantry can continue on their way. When you have teamwork you take down vehicles quickly. This can be a combination of swarms forges plasma cannons or other vehicles. Put some av in a lav with a rail gun and you have a good vehicle hunter team. Small rails are a beast when skilled. Truth is it doesn't even really take a lot of coordination, it helps, but you really just need more than one person using av weapons. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.

Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 677	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:45:00 - [31] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: LOL. "Now you guys get to see pretty numbers appear on your screen for attempting to kill me! What a buff, amirite!? Oh, don't worry, I'll still be decimating your team every match in my now all-but-unkillable tank!." "Waves of opportunity." >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
echo47 Minmatar Republic 238	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:45:00 - [32] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: The point of infantry av, when working solo, is to damage the vehicle enough to force it to retreat so infantry can continue on their way. When you have teamwork you take down vehicles quickly. This can be a combination of swarms forges plasma cannons or other vehicles. Put some av in a lav with a rail gun and you have a good vehicle hunter team. 3 AV players in a LAV chasing tanks amounts to nothing mor than 190wp for the first railtank that sees you. That is why you use three vehicles instead of one. A rail tank can only shoot one target at a time. Too bad everyone cried about LLAV's we all miss them now. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1268	Posted - 2014.03.19 20:53:00 - [33] - Quote I tried running AV this morning with 4 other people in my squad and first match we got was against 4 tankers. Just 4, but they did nothing but tank all match. We killed off the first couple of waves of tanks fairly quickly because they weren't expecting any resistance. After that things went down hill fast. I ended up killing 4 tanks, 5 LAV's and 1 dropship myself (with my squad supporting me) with proto swarms and Lai Dai's and went 9/8. Problem is that my AV fit costs 94,005isk (looking at it right now). I earned 178,000ish (don't recall the last 3 digits) ISK and lost 752,040isk in a pub match in order to fight militia tanks. I'm moving to Planetside 2 as soon as it hits ps4 and I'm staying there until this bullshit is fixed, end of story. MAG ~ Raven
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1269	Posted - 2014.03.19 21:00:00 - [34] - Quote echo47 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: The point of infantry av, when working solo, is to damage the vehicle enough to force it to retreat so infantry can continue on their way. When you have teamwork you take down vehicles quickly. This can be a combination of swarms forges plasma cannons or other vehicles. Put some av in a lav with a rail gun and you have a good vehicle hunter team. 3 AV players in a LAV chasing tanks amounts to nothing mor than 190wp for the first railtank that sees you. That is why you use three vehicles instead of one. A rail tank can only shoot one target at a time. Too bad everyone cried about LLAV's we all miss them now. So if one get's through, the tank still gets 180wp, then the one AV guy who gets there can try to solo the tank and either die to infantry in the attempt or net the tank an additional 90wp, bringing his total to 270wp. Also giving the tank 3 RDV's to shoot at, worth 150 a piece. Great idea, but I think I'll pass. MAG ~ Raven
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 323	Posted - 2014.03.19 21:05:00 - [35] - Quote bamboo x wrote: To be blunt, anyone with real Forge Gun skill isn't going to have much of a problem, even against Caldari vehicles. Make that two Forge Gunners and they'll be able to take on almost any tank together. Four Forge Gunners will annihilate the enemy's vehicles altogether. Yet I see game after game after game dominated by tanks, why is that? I mean I personally may just suck at forge gunning but what is it about AV that makes nearly everyone who plays it incompetent and stupid and everyone who tanks so much more intelligent and skilled? Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 323	Posted - 2014.03.19 21:10:00 - [36] - Quote I mean I've killed plenty of tanks but I die 4 or 5 times as much as if I just play against infantry. Because, that's why.
echo47 Minmatar Republic 238	Posted - 2014.03.19 21:13:00 - [37] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: echo47 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: The point of infantry av, when working solo, is to damage the vehicle enough to force it to retreat so infantry can continue on their way. When you have teamwork you take down vehicles quickly. This can be a combination of swarms forges plasma cannons or other vehicles. Put some av in a lav with a rail gun and you have a good vehicle hunter team. 3 AV players in a LAV chasing tanks amounts to nothing mor than 190wp for the first railtank that sees you. That is why you use three vehicles instead of one. A rail tank can only shoot one target at a time. Too bad everyone cried about LLAV's we all miss them now. So if one get's through, the tank still gets 180wp, then the one AV guy who gets there can try to solo the tank and either die to infantry in the attempt or net the tank an additional 90wp, bringing his total to 270wp. Also giving the tank 3 RDV's to shoot at, worth 150 a piece. Great idea, but I think I'll pass. The point is to apply pressure to tankers. Not just let them steamroll you. I see you chose the worse case scenario, no confidence? Going forward you will also get war points for damage. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. They way I see it you can fight back or come the forums and whine. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 603	Posted - 2014.03.19 21:39:00 - [38] - Quote echo47 wrote: The point is to apply pressure to tankers. Not just let them steamroll you. I see you chose the worse case scenario, no confidence? Going forward you will also get war points for damage. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. They way I see it you can fight back or come the forums and whine. OH! now I get it. They are shifting the objective of matches from trying to defend the objective to who can farm the most war points off vehicles. That's what wins matches! Throwing ******* rocks at tanks. How could I have been so scrubby to think that the point was to hold those blue letters.... The point is not to apply pressure to vehicles, the point of AV is to be the ANTI vehicle. Not a vehicle repellant. The entire problem is that a STD tank is capable of "steamrolling" a team! Even YOU said it in your post. These tank "pilots" sit here and try to defend their crutch with things like, "well at least now you get points before you die" This is the entire problem, you have idiots that have no idea what balance is. They see balance as "anything that let's me not die". And what good is the WP generated from pew pewing tanks all day? To drop an orbital on a tank?! LMAO if you are in a tank and die to an orbital, you SUCK. Maybe the WP nets me a marginally higher pay out at the end of the match? What maybe 40k more isk? Great I can replace the 3 x complex dmg mods, what incentive! Pro-fit Prophet "Gimme yo lunch money"
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1270	Posted - 2014.03.19 23:44:00 - [39] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: echo47 wrote: The point is to apply pressure to tankers. Not just let them steamroll you. I see you chose the worse case scenario, no confidence? Going forward you will also get war points for damage. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. They way I see it you can fight back or come the forums and whine. OH! now I get it. They are shifting the objective of matches from trying to defend the objective to who can farm the most war points off vehicles. That's what wins matches! Throwing ******* rocks at tanks. How could I have been so scrubby to think that the point was to hold those blue letters.... The point is not to apply pressure to vehicles, the point of AV is to be the ANTI vehicle. Not a vehicle repellant. The entire problem is that a STD tank is capable of "steamrolling" a team! Even YOU said it in your post. These tank "pilots" sit here and try to defend their crutch with things like, "well at least now you get points before you die" This is the entire problem, you have idiots that have no idea what balance is. They see balance as "anything that lets me not die". And what good is the WP generated from pew pewing tanks all day? To drop an orbital on a tank?! LMAO if you are in a tank and die to an orbital, you SUCK. Maybe the WP nets me a marginally higher pay out at the end of the match? What maybe 40k more isk? Great I can replace the 3 x complex dmg mods, what incentive! Well said. MAG ~ Raven
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5910	Posted - 2014.03.20 00:49:00 - [40] - Quote Ayures II wrote: You used a fit that costs maybe 10k and you're upset that you couldn't solo something that likely costs at least 10 times that? Am I the only one seeing this? That statement is a fallacy. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1905	Posted - 2014.03.20 00:51:00 - [41] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: calisk galern wrote: really....tanks still think av is fine...sigh...all right then -.- At least CharChar is on our side.... He knows nothing of balance (or rather, he will say anything but buffing vehicles is good, so any stupid idea is a good idea in his eyes). 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1905	Posted - 2014.03.20 00:53:00 - [42] - Quote I'll leave this here 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3588	Posted - 2014.03.20 00:53:00 - [43] - Quote I would like a response to these good, OP questions... Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5910	Posted - 2014.03.20 00:54:00 - [44] - Quote echo47 wrote: The point is to apply pressure to tankers. Not just let them steamroll you. I see you chose the worse case scenario, no confidence? Going forward you will also get war points for damage. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. They way I see it you can fight back or come the forums and whine. This is New Eden. The worst case scenario is pretty much the only guaranteed one. You can't 'apply pressure' when you can't even break their regen, and I'll bet 50m ISK that you couldn't kill me with a Warbarge Strike. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8435	Posted - 2014.03.20 01:36:00 - [45] - Quote Atiim wrote: echo47 wrote: The point is to apply pressure to tankers. Not just let them steamroll you. I see you chose the worse case scenario, no confidence? Going forward you will also get war points for damage. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. They way I see it you can fight back or come the forums and whine. This is New Eden. The worst case scenario is pretty much the only guaranteed one. You can't 'apply pressure' when you can't even break their regen, and I'll bet 50m ISK that you couldn't kill me with a Warbarge Strike. Warbarge general or Tactical Laser S? " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Bojo The Fantastic Bojo's Grand Bazaar 49	Posted - 2014.03.20 01:39:00 - [46] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: echo47 wrote: The point is to apply pressure to tankers. Not just let them steamroll you. I see you chose the worse case scenario, no confidence? Going forward you will also get war points for damage. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. They way I see it you can fight back or come the forums and whine. This is New Eden. The worst case scenario is pretty much the only guaranteed one. You can't 'apply pressure' when you can't even break their regen, and I'll bet 50m ISK that you couldn't kill me with a Warbarge Strike. Warbarge general or Tactical Laser S? I am here to handle your gambling needs Gambling // Entrepreneur // Trade // LAV Racing // Bojo's Personal Accountant
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5912	Posted - 2014.03.20 01:46:00 - [47] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Warbarge general or Tactical Laser S? I'd be insta-ganked if it was Tactical Laser S. But you can't earn OBs that are dropped by Capsuleers, so that wouldn't serve to prove echo47's point at all. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Waiyu Ren Seeker of The Path 61	Posted - 2014.03.20 04:13:00 - [48] - Quote Ayures II wrote: Waiyu Ren wrote: I actually tried AV during the weekend. I only used Mlt Swarms so i wasn't expecting much, but seeing that Dropship take missiles until i had 0/0 without so much as losing 1/5 of it's shield... Man, that was an eye opener. Before, i used to think that HAV/DS were annoying, but not brokenly so. My apologies AV guys. You used a fit that costs maybe 10k and you're upset that you couldn't solo something that likely costs at least 10 times that? Am I the only one seeing this? You are making an awful lot of assumptions with your statement. To clarify: Assumption 1) That i was upset. Shocked yes, but upset? Self quote: "I wasn't expecting much". I don't AV, i avoid. It's way friggin easier. Assumption 2) That i was trying to solo kill a vehicle. Nope, just trying to actually damage it. It was a gorgon, ie; less shield, more armour. I didn't even get through its shield to scratch it's paintwork. I don't expect a cheapass gun to down an armoured vehicle. I do expect to make them acknowledge my existence... Not just ignore me and continue to hover in place. Assumption 3) That this is the way it should be. I don't really think so; Isk balance is not the same as SP balance. And now for the meandering text wall i was trying to avoid: Vehicles are faster, do more damage, have more HP, yet conversely cost more, require speccing into a skill tree that is in no way useful while NOT in a vehicle, and all have completely different control systems (one being ridiculously difficult for reasons no one understands and has never to my knowledge been explained). AV on the other hand is slower, squishy, requires multiple shots and often reloads even at proto level, plus in a lot of cases, the coordinated effort of several players, while conversely being cheaper. That's it. It's cheaper... Comparable SP levels for specialisation given that a pure Vehicleer need never don any suit beyond a starter fit should they so choose. But, if the AVer does specialise, they do not have any of the benefits a Vehicleer has to keep them alive. They are so, so vulnerable. Now, i'm going to do a 180 here and say that i think vehicles SHOULD be hard to kill. They are armoured to STOP asshats like me blowing them up as an afterthought on my way to cap a point. They SHOULD pack a serious punch, one, to scare the crap out of me and make me think twice about going that way, and two, to deal with the other armoury punchers out there. But i also think that weapons specifically designed to take down vehicles should actually be able to at a comparable level, or at the very least ** their ** up a little if not at a comparable level, not give them a pretty little fireworks show in honour of their awesomeness.... I don't mean one shot, three is the "sounds good" number i just pulled out of my backside, with swarms being light AV to tackle LAV and light DS, forge as heavy AV to tackle HAV and medium DS... It's a game not reality, one-shot AV would be just as lame as "don't even bother" AV. How that can be achieved while reconciling the disparate views of those for/against/wishywashy, i don't know. But whatever happens in the future, after i've built my Super-Scrub "Heavy with a Sniper Rifle in the Redline" Alt, you can bet your ass i'll be speccing it into a Rail Tank. Shouting doesn't make your opinion seem more valid, it just makes you seem more annoying.
Rusty Shallows 1170	Posted - 2014.03.20 04:56:00 - [49] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: The point of infantry av, when working solo, is to damage the vehicle enough to force it to retreat so infantry can continue on their way. When you have teamwork you take down vehicles quickly. This can be a combination of swarms forges plasma cannons or other vehicles. Put some av in a lav with a rail gun and you have a good vehicle hunter team. The good tankers in non-militia HAVs identify your position and use a Blaster or Rail to settle the matter. That was true even pre-1.7 with the right armor-tanked blaster fit. When the SP HAV goes proactive the best I can do is expose myself as little as possible and tickle with the FG. If these war points aren't at least as much as an Assist it will be a total waste of resources. Here, have some candy and a Like. :-) Forums > Game
Omareth Nasadra The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 335	Posted - 2014.03.20 05:51:00 - [50] - Quote in before spkrforthetanks post and says he died to a swarm and that we need to get good Minmatar, In rust we trust!!! Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes

da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 539	Posted - 2014.03.20 05:55:00 - [51] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: You nerfed our swarms. You are nerfing them again when they are already borderline useless by changing their proficiency skill. Then you are double nerfing them by also nerfing damage mods. AV grenades, PLCs and forge guns are taking hits as well. Is your plan for vehicles to never die and AV players are to just farm vehicle damage points all match unless hit by JLAV's? Or is there something deeper that I'm not seeing? No you are seeing it right. Allahu jeepbar lolz dude , I gotta try it out one day if AV doesn't get buffed or have some kind of cool affect on vehicles. After Uprisings release the forums were a bad place, I'll never forget how CCP screwed up so badly.
echo47 Minmatar Republic 239	Posted - 2014.03.20 06:55:00 - [52] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: echo47 wrote: The point is to apply pressure to tankers. Not just let them steamroll you. I see you chose the worse case scenario, no confidence? Going forward you will also get war points for damage. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. They way I see it you can fight back or come the forums and whine. OH! now I get it. They are shifting the objective of matches from trying to defend the objective to who can farm the most war points off vehicles. That's what wins matches! Throwing ******* rocks at tanks. How could I have been so scrubby to think that the point was to hold those blue letters.... The point is not to apply pressure to vehicles, the point of AV is to be the ANTI vehicle. Not a vehicle repellant. The entire problem is that a STD tank is capable of "steamrolling" a team! Even YOU said it in your post. These tank "pilots" sit here and try to defend their crutch with things like, "well at least now you get points before you die" This is the entire problem, you have idiots that have no idea what balance is. They see balance as "anything that lets me not die". And what good is the WP generated from pew pewing tanks all day? To drop an orbital on a tank?! LMAO if you are in a tank and die to an orbital, you SUCK. Maybe the WP nets me a marginally higher pay out at the end of the match? What maybe 40k more isk? Great I can replace the 3 x complex dmg mods, what incentive! The point is too apply pressure. Tanks can change the game to hold those points it takes pressure on tanks. You don't have to destroy tanks in order win a skirmish or dom match. If you can't pop it at least make the tanker think twice. I stand by what I said the only time tanks steam roll is when they are not challenged. The tank changes and massive number of people who have skilled into them shows, tanking takes very little skill. So if a couple of tanks come in and own your team or squad what does that say. Guess what forge guns work. AV grenades work. RE's work. Swarms are another story. The same way it takes more the one merc to hold an objective it sometimes takes more than one merc to kill a tank. And there is nothing wrong with that. They can keep their crutch as far as I am concerned. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
echo47 Minmatar Republic 239	Posted - 2014.03.20 06:57:00 - [53] - Quote Atiim wrote: echo47 wrote: The point is to apply pressure to tankers. Not just let them steamroll you. I see you chose the worse case scenario, no confidence? Going forward you will also get war points for damage. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. They way I see it you can fight back or come the forums and whine. This is New Eden. The worst case scenario is pretty much the only guaranteed one. You can't 'apply pressure' when you can't even break their regen, and I'll bet 50m ISK that you couldn't kill me with a Warbarge Strike. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2054	Posted - 2014.03.20 08:22:00 - [54] - Quote I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I hope that CCP's intention is to introduce an AV suit that buffs AV weapons and/or grenade count. I am trying to stay optimistic, they said that medium frames were being tweaked and I am hoping they will be adding an AV suit to the medium lineup. If that is the case then AV may become better soon and if they add webs that slow down vehicles then AV would be a lot more powerful and allow us to set traps and block areas off or at least make them think twice before entering. I am also hoping that they get smart and add a heavy laser weapon that kills shields on vehicles. The PLC works but need a weapon that works much like the LR to fight shield hardened vehicles, damage goes up over time and really strips shields. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
straya fox Sad Panda Solutions 262	Posted - 2014.03.20 09:16:00 - [55] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I hope that CCP's intention is to introduce an AV suit that buffs AV weapons and/or grenade count. I am trying to stay optimistic, they said that medium frames were being tweaked and I am hoping they will be adding an AV suit to the medium lineup. If that is the case then AV may become better soon and if they add webs that slow down vehicles then AV would be a lot more powerful and allow us to set traps and block areas off or at least make them think twice before entering. I am also hoping that they get smart and add a heavy laser weapon that kills shields on vehicles. The PLC works but need a weapon that works much like the LR to fight shield hardened vehicles, damage goes up over time and really strips shields. AV suit- 90% resistance to small arms fire cause balance.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1307	Posted - 2014.03.20 09:48:00 - [56] - Quote straya fox wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I hope that CCP's intention is to introduce an AV suit that buffs AV weapons and/or grenade count. I am trying to stay optimistic, they said that medium frames were being tweaked and I am hoping they will be adding an AV suit to the medium lineup. If that is the case then AV may become better soon and if they add webs that slow down vehicles then AV would be a lot more powerful and allow us to set traps and block areas off or at least make them think twice before entering. I am also hoping that they get smart and add a heavy laser weapon that kills shields on vehicles. The PLC works but need a weapon that works much like the LR to fight shield hardened vehicles, damage goes up over time and really strips shields. AV suit- 90% resistance to small arms fire cause balance. This would unbalance it. I've suggested an AV suit in the past, but it was ignored for so long that I quit bumping the post. Basically you make light AV weapons not be a light, heavy or sidearm weapon but instead make it a ....."AV weapon". (AV weapons can still be fitted in a light weapon slot, but light weapons cannot go in an AV weapon slot. Meaning the AV suit can equip nothing but light AV, but other suits with light weapon slots can still run AV) You give the suit 2 AV weapon slots, one grenade slot, 2 equipment slots, no sidearm. Module slot layouts based on race. You give it scout-like speed so it is capable of avoiding infantry and keeping up some-what with vehicles. You give it commando~heavy tiered EHP so that it has the health to fight off vehicles and survive engagements with infantry (again, it can only fit light AV weapons). Finally, you give it a direct % damage buff for light AV weapons and a direct % damage resistance to turret damage based on race. MAG ~ Raven
straya fox Sad Panda Solutions 262	Posted - 2014.03.20 09:53:00 - [57] - Quote Baal,yeah i know it would be unbalanced, but at this stage in the tank stomping i really would not care at all.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2055	Posted - 2014.03.20 10:20:00 - [58] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Basically you make light AV weapons not be a light, heavy or sidearm weapon but instead make it a ....."AV weapon". (AV weapons can still be fitted in a light weapon slot, but light weapons cannot go in an AV weapon slot) You give the suit 2 AV weapon slots, one grenade slot, 2 equipment slots, no sidearm. Module slot layouts based on race. You give it scout-like speed so it is capable of avoiding infantry and keeping up some-what with vehicles. You give it commando~heavy tiered EHP so that it has the health to fight off vehicles and survive engagements with infantry (again, it can only fit light AV weapons). Finally, you give it a direct % damage buff for light AV weapons and a direct % damage resistance to turret damage based on race. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I like it, I don't agree with no infantry based weapons on the suit but at the same time it would give the suit some flavor and make them very unique and specialized. I say add the damn suits and let us work it out over time. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 327	Posted - 2014.03.20 16:50:00 - [59] - Quote echo47 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: echo47 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: The point of infantry av, when working solo, is to damage the vehicle enough to force it to retreat so infantry can continue on their way. When you have teamwork you take down vehicles quickly. This can be a combination of swarms forges plasma cannons or other vehicles. Put some av in a lav with a rail gun and you have a good vehicle hunter team. 3 AV players in a LAV chasing tanks amounts to nothing mor than 190wp for the first railtank that sees you. That is why you use three vehicles instead of one. A rail tank can only shoot one target at a time. Too bad everyone cried about LLAV's we all miss them now. So if one get's through, the tank still gets 180wp, then the one AV guy who gets there can try to solo the tank and either die to infantry in the attempt or net the tank an additional 90wp, bringing his total to 270wp. Also giving the tank 3 RDV's to shoot at, worth 150 a piece. Great idea, but I think I'll pass. The point is to apply pressure to tankers. Not just let them steamroll you. I see you chose the worse case scenario, no confidence? Going forward you will also get war points for damage. Getting your squad closer to an orbital, and inflicting damage to ensure the orbital is successful. They way I see it you can fight back or come the forums and whine. I choose, both. Because, that's why.


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