However tanks will still shrug off damage with ease, so the main effect may just make it even more difficult for ADS pilots.

So, I, like many others freaked out about the AV nerf in 1.8. Prof and damage mod changes hurt AV a lot, more so than most other guns. Everyone stacks damage and any respectable forger has at least prof 3.

But the two things that help swing balance back to AV are the WP for damage addition and also the new side arms.

New side arms with 40+ range is an AV buff. And a pretty massive one. It will allow you to run forge/swarm (though if you want swarm, run commando...) and still be able to deal with threats at medium range. ScP is an amazing weapon, but its limited range and clip size is a pretty big issue if relying on it as your primary. The magsec and bolt will be much more reliable for Avers.

The WP will make it so more folks want to run AV to get WP and will stick with it instead of giving up the first or second time a tank escapes.

These two things mean...more AVers. And since AV v V is pretty much a numbers game (DPS race) another couple AVers on the field can absoltely change things.

Ambush is probably still screwed (unless folks got smart and started spawning as a squad of forgers/magsecs to insta pop enemy tanks at the start) but dom and skirm might very well be pushed into balance by these indirect AV buffs.

Yes, I know AV was pretty heavily nerfed by the prof and damage mod nerfs. But overall, the sidearm and WP probably leaves AV in a better place than 1.7 maybe even a much better place.

I don't disagree with the general points, but on the sidearm matter specifically - well if the mag-sec turns out to be good enough to really compensate for a lack of primary, what are the chances it will stay that good in 1.9?

Basically it's a shame a 'buff' to AV is reliant on the OP nature of something else...

So, I, like many others freaked out about the AV nerf in 1.8. Prof and damage mod changes hurt AV a lot, more so than most other guns. Everyone stacks damage and any respectable forger has at least prof 3.

But the two things that help swing balance back to AV are the WP for damage addition and also the new side arms.

New side arms with 40+ range is an AV buff. And a pretty massive one. It will allow you to run forge/swarm (though if you want swarm, run commando...) and still be able to deal with threats at medium range. ScP is an amazing weapon, but its limited range and clip size is a pretty big issue if relying on it as your primary. The magsec and bolt will be much more reliable for Avers.

The WP will make it so more folks want to run AV to get WP and will stick with it instead of giving up the first or second time a tank escapes.

These two things mean...more AVers. And since AV v V is pretty much a numbers game (DPS race) another couple AVers on the field can absoltely change things.

Ambush is probably still screwed (unless folks got smart and started spawning as a squad of forgers/magsecs to insta pop enemy tanks at the start) but dom and skirm might very well be pushed into balance by these indirect AV buffs.

Yes, I know AV was pretty heavily nerfed by the prof and damage mod nerfs. But overall, the sidearm and WP probably leaves AV in a better place than 1.7 maybe even a much better place.

WP points counts as buff? So that means if they'd increase to 100WP when you'd get a kill with sniper rifles that they'd been buffed? If they reduced to 25WP kills with CR/RR/AR/SCR, they'd be nerfed? I don't see the correlation between having a few more AV players and AV weapons being buffed.

Vehicles cannot just shrug off a coordinated AV effort.

1 AV vs 1 V favors the vehicle sure but 3-4 AV vs 1 V favors the AV.

Does this include the Ion pistol

Doesn't take a coordinated tank to kill infantry therefore...

Honest question, do you spend a lot of time in an AV role?

Cause I think anyone who does so can appreciate how even one more person firing at that tank wouldve made a difference. AV for the most part is all or nothing. Either you have enough AV on the field to destroy the quality of tanks the enemy is fielding (and the skill of the pilot factors here) or you dont.

Ive had matches where ive mowed down 10+ militia tanks because I had a random blue running forge with me, or swarm.

Me and my buddy can dedicate ourselves to AV and drive around in our jeep hopping out and popping most tanks.

Then you get the really good tankers running 2x or 3x hardeners and they require like 4+ AV to deal with. 2 can just keep them at bay sometimes.

But yes, a few more players in the AV role makes the job of AV a ton easier and acts as a buff. Plus your ignoring the side arm buff. Being able to protect yourself against infantry while suited to deal with tanks is clearly a buff.

See my post about the numbers game with AV.

Yes, 1v1 tanks have the advantage.

but 3on3?

5on5?

As AV numbers grow, their ability to alpha pop giant tanks from far away becomes easier and easier. Meanwhile, adding more and more tanks doesnt really help the tank cause as much. Yes, it still does, as 2 good tankers cycling in and out to keep hardeners up is a pretty difficult thing to overcome.

But really, a squad probably doesnt help itself much past 2 tanks, maybe 3. Then you are better off getting infantry or sniper support to keep AV off you.

The key to doing well solo against a tank is being well rounded. Yes swarms are terrible against shields and so are AV nades. Don't take swarms and AV on the same suit.
A medium suit with a plc and AV nades is terrifying to shield tanks.
A medium suit with flux grenades and a swarm can mess up armor.

A commando with PLC, Swarms, and AV nades with a nanohive?
Try a Minmatar commando with Plasma Cannon and Swarms along with AV nades and a hive and you can do serious damage to armor tanks.
Try a Gallente commando with the same setup and you can do great against shield tanks.

And as has been stated before 1v1 tanks win. 4v4 the 4 AV will win consistently.

Everyone stacks damage

the caldari commando could make a great AV suit. swarm and a rail rifle, equipment slot, 3 damage mods. seeign as nades are droppign to just having 2 you wopuldnt really miss them. hell if you wanted to be true beast AV fit 2 swarms on it. i have em on my current commando and its pretty awesome annoying the hell out of DS pilots with constant barrage of swarms

perhaps the gal/cal commando bonus should apply damage to the swarms too? it'd give AV the bit of buff they need