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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1516
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 20:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Current suit stats at Proto:
Assault 300 CPU / 60 PG 210 Shield / 110 Armor 1 Weapon / 1 Sidearm / 4 H / 3 L / 1 Eq 5s Shield rechard delay / 8s Depleted 30/s Shield Recharge 5 m/s Run speed 175 Stamina / 20 Recharge
Logistics 350 CPU / 78 PG 180 Shield / 90 Armor 1 Weapon / 0 Sidearm / 5 H / 4 L / 3 Eq 4s Shield Recharge delay / 5s Depleted 25/s Shield Recharge 4.7 m/s Run speed 15% Hacking speed bonus 150 Stamina / 15 Recharge
So just from this you can see Logis sacrifice:
50 EHP, 1 Sidearm, 5/s shield recharge, 0.3 m/s run speed, and a negligible amount of stamina
and gain:
1 H + 1 L slot, 50 CPU / 18 PG, 2 extra Eq. slots, 1s / 3s better shield delays, and a 15% hacking bonus.
Let's factor in some Shield Extenders to see EHP and shield regen differences:
Assault with 4x Complex Shield Extender will have: 210 + (4x (66 * 1.1)) = 500 Shield A 7% shield depleted per extender is applied making depleted time: 8s * (1.07^4) = 10.5s Shield Depleted Delay
Logi can fit 5x Complex Shield Extender meaning: 180 + (4x (66 * 1.1)) = 543 Shield Again, 7% shield depleted per extender makes depleted time: 5s * (1.07^5) = 7.00 Shield Depleted Delay
So not only will the Logi be able to fit more shield but have a better depleted delay than an Assault before fitting modules (7s with mods Logi vs 8s without mods Assault). Seeing this immediately made me forego any chance of going back into CalAssault following 1.8.
My likely fit will be 4x Shield Extenders with 1x Complex Shield Energizer. That means about 470 Shield, 6.5s Depleted Delay, and 41.5/s shield recharge. Not only that, I'll have an extra low slot, 2 extra equipment, and very likely more stamina because I usually run with Cardiac Regulators.
Oh, I forgot to mention the Assault gets a 25% reload bonus to Rail damage types! Clearly that makes up for the underwhelming Assault stats!
So CCP, please tell me why I should stay with my current CalAssault instead of switching to the clearly better 1.8 Slayer Logi?
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1875
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 20:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
TL;DR: Logis shouldn't have more high/low slots than Assaults.
Of course there's other things like they shouldn't have lower shield recharge delays, but I think the slots are the biggest thing.
But good post nonetheless.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
11189
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Posted - 2014.03.16 20:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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AP Grasshopper
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
206
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Posted - 2014.03.16 20:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
your so silly, I guess 10% ROF means nothing to you. Even after damage mods are nerfed. |
Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1520
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Posted - 2014.03.16 20:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:TL;DR: Logis shouldn't have more high/low slots than Assaults.
Of course there's other things like they shouldn't have lower shield recharge delays, but I think the slots are the biggest thing.
But good post nonetheless. I'd be fine with the slots if the innate suit bonuses of the Assault actually made up for it.
As it stands, a little bit of EHP, a sidearm, and a tiny bit more speed/stamina doesn't make up for the other huge bonuses Logis get.
Hell, Logis even get a hacking bonus. That means with System Hacking V I'll have a 43.75% increase to hacking speed versus only 25% on an Assault.
I'll have: more HP, better regen, less downtime from shield delays, more versatility from equipment slots, better hacking, AND a useful suit bonus to boot.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Heimdallr69
Heaven's Lost Property
1874
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Posted - 2014.03.16 20:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
I won't be going back into cal assault either... What a joke lol. I might go Gal assault and cal logi
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Rusty Shallows
1129
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Posted - 2014.03.16 21:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale, are you trying to get CCP to jack the CPU/PG for Shield Extenders?
Here, have some candy and a Like. :-)
Forums > Game
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1522
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Posted - 2014.03.16 21:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
AP Grasshopper wrote:your so silly, I guess 10% ROF means nothing to you. Even after damage mods are nerfed. 10% ROF?
That bonus was nerfed quite a while ago. Assault suits now get a paltry 25% fitting bonus to light weapons/sidearms .
With the extra CPU/PG that Logis get and the innate 25% fitting to equipment that bonus hardly means anything.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1522
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Posted - 2014.03.16 21:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:Funkmaster Whale, are you trying to get CCP to jack the CPU/PG for Shield Extenders? No I'm trying to get them to fix the stats and bonuses on the Assault suit to actually make them worthy.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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Heimdallr69
Heaven's Lost Property
1874
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:Funkmaster Whale, are you trying to get CCP to jack the CPU/PG for Shield Extenders? No I'm trying to get them to fix the stats and bonuses on the Assault suit to actually make them worthy. Trade the assault high and low with logis for a start.. A hack bonus seems more of an assault stat than a logi.. The shield recharge **** should be fixed as well.
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1231
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing...
But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes.
I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb.
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado, Cannabis Sativa Connoisseur
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Heimdallr69
Heaven's Lost Property
1874
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing...
But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes.
I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb. I never use a sidearm with my assault so it makes no difference to me. Gotta find that cover!
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stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1232
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:stlcarlos989 wrote:I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing...
But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes.
I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb. I never use a sidearm with my assault so it makes no difference to me. Gotta find that cover! True in this build TTK is so short that reload almost never comes up, in 1.8 however less damage and proficiency changes will be a big hit to slayer logis which is why my use of the cal logi will end.
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado, Cannabis Sativa Connoisseur
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Meee One
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
534
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Posted - 2014.03.16 21:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:Funkmaster Whale, are you trying to get CCP to jack the CPU/PG for Shield Extenders? No I'm trying to get them to fix the stats and bonuses on the Assault suit to actually make them worthy. Trade the assault high and low with logis for a start.. A hack bonus seems more of an assault stat than a logi.. The shield recharge **** should be fixed as well. Wow,next you'll say "and give assaults 3 extra equipment slots logis don't need them either". You are a fool with slot envy. Logistics is everything BUT killing,and HACKING is part of everything. You are a moron or just can't read. The dev blog says those slots are there for future eq based modules.
I game over like a boss.
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1523
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing...
But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes.
I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb. Fair enough. I die during reload all the time as well.
But the bonus CalAssault gets will give a 25% bonus to reload speed ONLY to rail weapons, meaning: Rail Rifle, MagSec SMG, Sniper Rifle, and Bolt Pistol. For the Rail Rifle, that's a 0.75s faster reload.
Lacking a sidearm does sort of suck, but as it stands most of the time it's incredibly difficult to even fit a sidearm. That'll change in 1.8 of course but to me a sidearm doesn't make up for all the bonuses the Logi suits get. 3 Eq means I'm way more versatile to my team than a sidearm.
I'll just continue to play like an Assault just with better bonuses. CCP's attempt to balance Slayer Logis has only made them better. Bravo.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2090
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Instead of nerfing the logistics buff the Assault, unless you want TWO under performing suits, then by all means need the crap out of it.
For the Federation!
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Heimdallr69
Heaven's Lost Property
1874
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:Funkmaster Whale, are you trying to get CCP to jack the CPU/PG for Shield Extenders? No I'm trying to get them to fix the stats and bonuses on the Assault suit to actually make them worthy. Trade the assault high and low with logis for a start.. A hack bonus seems more of an assault stat than a logi.. The shield recharge **** should be fixed as well. Wow,next you'll say "and give assaults 3 extra equipment slots logis don't need them either". You are a fool with slot envy. Logistics is everything BUT killing,and HACKING is part of everything. You are a moron or just can't read. The dev blog says those slots are there for future eq based modules. You really shouldn't **** me off, so lay off. You don't like what I say then tell me how you would improve it instead of insulting me.
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Heimdallr69
Heaven's Lost Property
1874
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:stlcarlos989 wrote:I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing...
But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes.
I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb. I never use a sidearm with my assault so it makes no difference to me. Gotta find that cover! True in this build TTK is so short that reload almost never comes up, in 1.8 however less damage and proficiency changes will be a big hit to slayer logis which is why my use of the cal logi will end. Hmmm you might be right on this, nice call. That honestly never crossed my mind.
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Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
1523
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Instead of nerfing the logistics buff the Assault, unless you want TWO under performing suits, then by all means need the crap out of it.
I never called for a nerf to Logistics. I'm just pointing out what the current iteration in stats means. At this point it's way too late to change anything.
I'm simply pointing out how much CCP has ****** up (no surprise honestly) in trying to balance the Slayer Logi issue that's been prevalent since Uprising 1.0.
The only difference now is that I'm no longer going with Assault in hopes that they'll eventually balance it. We all know how that turned out.
Let me play you the song of my people!
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stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1232
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:stlcarlos989 wrote:I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing...
But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes.
I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb. Fair enough. I die during reload all the time as well. But the bonus CalAssault gets will give a 25% bonus to reload speed ONLY to rail weapons, meaning: Rail Rifle, MagSec SMG, Sniper Rifle, and Bolt Pistol. For the Rail Rifle, that's a 0.75s faster reload. Lacking a sidearm does sort of suck, but as it stands most of the time it's incredibly difficult to even fit a sidearm. That'll change in 1.8 of course but to me a sidearm doesn't make up for all the bonuses the Logi suits get. 3 Eq means I'm way more versatile to my team than a sidearm. I'll just continue to play like an Assault just with better bonuses. CCP's attempt to balance Slayer Logis has only made them better. Bravo. Actually their balances with logi has made me want to skill out of the cal logi (my only suit) with reduced damage and proficiency skill only effecting one damage type my CR or AR will only be good against one type of enemy and that's assuming they don't dual tank.
I agree that the reload bonus is a joke and is the reason I'm choosing cal scout over cal assault.
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado, Cannabis Sativa Connoisseur
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2090
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Instead of nerfing the logistics buff the Assault, unless you want TWO under performing suits, then by all means need the crap out of it.
I never called for a nerf to Logistics. I'm just pointing out what the current iteration in stats means. At this point it's way too late to change anything. I'm simply pointing out how much CCP has ****** up (no surprise honestly) in trying to balance the Slayer Logi issue that's been prevalent since Uprising 1.0. The only difference now is that I'm no longer going with Assault in hopes that they'll eventually balance it. We all know how that turned out.
Just a general thought. The Logistics need their tank, but if that's the only problem then just give the Assaults the same slots also.
For the Federation!
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k joydrop
Nos Nothi
7
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Posted - 2014.03.16 21:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
AP Grasshopper wrote:your so silly, I guess 10% ROF means nothing to you. Even after damage mods are nerfed.
Of course they mean nothing to him, that bonus was scrapped weeks ago.
Asha was here.
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Meee One
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
535
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Posted - 2014.03.16 21:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Meee One wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:Funkmaster Whale, are you trying to get CCP to jack the CPU/PG for Shield Extenders? No I'm trying to get them to fix the stats and bonuses on the Assault suit to actually make them worthy. Trade the assault high and low with logis for a start.. A hack bonus seems more of an assault stat than a logi.. The shield recharge **** should be fixed as well. Wow,next you'll say "and give assaults 3 extra equipment slots logis don't need them either". You are a fool with slot envy. Logistics is everything BUT killing,and HACKING is part of everything. You are a moron or just can't read. The dev blog says those slots are there for future eq based modules. You really shouldn't **** me off, so lay off. You don't like what I say then tell me how you would improve it instead of insulting me. I call em as i see em. And you my good sir are a turd.
And as for a bonus to make assaults more appealing i've already made this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1922546#post1922546
I game over like a boss.
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Heimdallr69
Heaven's Lost Property
1874
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Posted - 2014.03.16 21:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Meee One wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote: No I'm trying to get them to fix the stats and bonuses on the Assault suit to actually make them worthy.
Trade the assault high and low with logis for a start.. A hack bonus seems more of an assault stat than a logi.. The shield recharge **** should be fixed as well. Wow,next you'll say "and give assaults 3 extra equipment slots logis don't need them either". You are a fool with slot envy. Logistics is everything BUT killing,and HACKING is part of everything. You are a moron or just can't read. The dev blog says those slots are there for future eq based modules. You really shouldn't **** me off, so lay off. You don't like what I say then tell me how you would improve it instead of insulting me. I call em as i see em. And you my good sir are a turd. And as for a bonus to make assaults more appealing i've already made this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1922546#post1922546 A turd? Cuz I'm putting out ideas in a thread that asked for ideas? QFT
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
731
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 21:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
The bonus that Assaults get, 5% reducction to CPU on Light/Side, is ridiculous. It is pretty much worthless if you are using a Basic Weapon, negligible if you have it in an Advanced, and if you are using a Prototype weapon you probably are in an Advanced/Prototype suit meaning you probably have room to spare.
Caldari with Prototype Rail Rifle and Magsec: 61/12 + 84/17 is 145/29. 25% reduction saved you 36.25/7.25. So the Logistics still has "more free CPU/PG" even with the reduction. If the Assault doesn't have a Sidearm, they only save 21/3.5; not exactly going to set the world on fire in anyway.
If the Logistics has a Drop Uplink, an Injector, and a Repair Tool all at a basic level with level 5 X Logistics, they save 17/3.25. Advanced would be 28/4.75 and Prototype 41.75/7.5. The Logistics bonus makes sense because 3 equipment slots actually burn a huge amount of CPU/PG. A Light Weapon and a possible Sidearm don't use as much.
I don't understand how the notion of "Logistics should have more High and Medium slots" passed the design stage. |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
733
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 22:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote: Just a general thought. The Logistics need their tank, but if that's the only problem then just give the Assaults the same slots also.
Why do the Logistics need their tank? They are not meant to be taking fire; more in the back with equipment while laying down support fire. I think all that can be said is "Logistics need the tank; that's why they have more slots." I think the 'fact' came before the reasoning though. "Logistics have more slots, so they must need the tank." Assaults don't need the tank because they don't have the slots by that logic.
There has to be some kind of trade off aside from a Sidearm, which many Assaults don't have because of fitting restrictions, when it comes to being a Logistics. Think of it like this: "You can go Suit A that has a Sidearm and 50 more EHP or you can go Suit B, that has more CPU/PG, faster depleted shield recharge, and two more equipment slots." That is the same exact problem now. Logistics are able to do tanking/fighting just as well as Assaults but also have equipment.
Every other game has some kind of detriment for the utility of being a Support; the same needs to be true with DUST.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2090
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Posted - 2014.03.16 22:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote: Just a general thought. The Logistics need their tank, but if that's the only problem then just give the Assaults the same slots also.
Why do the Logistics need their tank? They are not meant to be taking fire; more in the back with equipment while laying down support fire. I think all that can be said is "Logistics need the tank; that's why they have more slots." I think the 'fact' came before the reasoning though. "Logistics have more slots, so they must need the tank." Assaults don't need the tank because they don't have the slots by that logic. There has to be some kind of trade off aside from a Sidearm, which many Assaults don't have because of fitting restrictions, when it comes to being a Logistics. Think of it like this: "You can go Suit A that has a Sidearm and 50 more EHP or you can go Suit B, that has more CPU/PG, faster depleted shield recharge, and two more equipment slots." That is the same exact problem now. Logistics are able to do tanking/fighting just as well as Assaults but also have equipment. Every other game has some kind of detriment for the utility of being a Support; the same needs to be true with DUST.
How can a Logistics provide support if he can go out in the front lines? Let's use the nanite injector.
If a Logistics is squishy how do you expect to be revived? The only possible way for me to revive you is if you die behind cover in which case I wouldn't need to revive you since bullets shouldn't be hitting you to begin with.
The only suit that can use a repair tool from behind the llines is a Minmatar suit but how do you expect repairs if I can't get to you?
What about support fire, can't provide support fire if I am a pin cushion.
Also I said that a Assault should be buffed not the Logistics merged so what is your problem with the ideology? If you had the same slots as a Logistics you get more tank than them but at least they are not utterly useless in anything but dropping equipping away from battle.
Most games that I know a support has detrimental effects but at the same time people give a **** about that player since their death means failure. In Dust you can easily make due without a Logistics therefore those same mechanics would make the suit useless.
For the Federation!
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1391
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Posted - 2014.03.16 22:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Honestly, I still think there's a use for both suits.
Caldari Assault will have a better base but won't be able to fit modules like the logistics. The logistics will be gimped in versatility while the assault will shine there.
In a world where TTK is a tad bit higher and a sidearm definitely makes or break battles(see: Sentinels), the logistics will allow for specialized slayers who lack the non-support versatility of the assault and commando, but will have better stats than the assault.
There's also the reloading bonus for the Caldari...The Rail RIfle in particular is a weapon designed for "keep away" so imagine what happens when your enemy gets all in your face while you reload and can't switch weapons?
On a spreadsheet, it seems like Logistics > Assaults but I'm not sold on it and I actually believe assaults will be the more competent slayer in 1.8.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1878
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Posted - 2014.03.16 22:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
@Blackstar
So losing 1-2 high/low slots will mean Logis lose all their tank?
Logis are not supposed to be on the front line, so no need for extreme HP.
Logis can easily still provide supporting fire as they won't really be under fire since they're protected from their team.
Logis reviving people don't need extreme amount of HP, reviving people in bad places is bad no matter how much HP the Logi has.
Logis being able to get high HP, but not enough as Assaults is fine, but currently they can get extreme amounts of HP and even more than Assaults. That's backwards as Logis don't need that kind of HP as they're supposed to be protected by their team.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2090
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 22:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
[quote=Bendtner92]@Blackstar
So losing 1-2 high/low slots will mean Logis lose all their tank?
Yes basically, instead of removing the slots give 1-2 slots to the Assaults... it's basically the same just a reverse nerf.
Logis are not supposed to be on the front line, so no need for extreme amounts of HP.
That's correct but there is an amount of HP necessary to be able to actually play the game sort of speak. Trust me that if you make Logistics squishy you will essentially make them unplayable.
Logis can easily still provide supporting fire as they won't really be under fire since they're protected from their team.
like I said in Dust nobody protects the Logistics since you can easily play without Logistic support.
Logis reviving people don't need extreme amounts of HP, reviving people in bad places is bad no matter how much HP the Logi has.
Any place where a friendly died is a bad place...
Logis being able to get high HP, but not enough as Assaults is fine, but currently they can get extreme amounts of HP and even more than Assaults. That's backwards as Logis don't need that kind of HP as they're supposed to be protected by their team.
So then buffing the Assaults without nerfing the Logistics is basically does this since the Assaults have higher base HP... I don't understand why I am even arguing I am basically asking for the exact same thing your asking but your ideology is to nerf the Logi mine is to fix the Assault... and again nobody protects logis you want logis to be protect remove equipment slots from everybody and double the cost of Assault suits? Yeah a real quick in the crotch isn't it? That's how extreme it would have to go for this necessity to protect the Logi would have to go.
For the Federation!
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1880
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Posted - 2014.03.16 22:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:instead of removing the slots give 1-2 slots to the Assaults... it's basically the same just a reverse nerf. Assaults don't need more slots, they already have plenty. Giving them more slots will only make them closer to fast moving heavies.
Assaults would be pretty balanced if they just got that CPU/PG buff that light and heavy classes got, some stat changes, maybe better bonuses and for Logis to lose 1-2 slots (plus some other stat changes on Logis of course).
More slots for Assaults will only make them OP.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Vin Mora
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
277
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Posted - 2014.03.16 22:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Honestly, I still think there's a use for both suits.
Caldari Assault will have a better base but won't be able to fit modules like the logistics. The logistics will be gimped in versatility while the assault will shine there.
In a world where TTK is a tad bit higher and a sidearm definitely makes or break battles(see: Sentinels), the logistics will allow for specialized slayers who lack the non-support versatility of the assault and commando, but will have better stats than the assault.
There's also the reloading bonus for the Caldari...The Rail RIfle in particular is a weapon designed for "keep away" so imagine what happens when your enemy gets all in your face while you reload and can't switch weapons?
On a spreadsheet, it seems like Logistics > Assaults but I'm not sold on it and I actually believe assaults will be the more competent slayer in 1.8. I think I am one of the few people who likes the Caldari Assault bonus. Back when TTK was much higher, it was extremely hard for me (a die-hard Gallente Logi) to kill anything. While this can be considered good for those that wish for the death of the of Slayer-Logi, it also means that I can't 'clear the area' to revive someone.
Not having a sidearm on my suit has gotten me killed countless times. Being an Assault that carries two long range weapons (Rail Rifle and MagSec SMG), which can cover all ranges, and can quickly be reloaded, is going to be far better then people are giving credit for.
It is (besides the Minmatar Assault suit) one of the suits that I think that I will be speccing into. I have 'tested' out the reload speed bonus by using the current (1.7) Amarr Commando, and it feels nice. I was able to kill several groups of people by reloading quickly in-between engagments. I was able to also suppress people betteras well when I was outside of my optimal range.
Things on paper, aren't always 1-for-1 in practice. In an intense firefight, being able to put more rounds in air, gives you the better chance at survival, is a good thing. that is what this bonus is there to help with.
Besides, we all know that reloading as often as possible is one of the most important rules of FPSs.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2090
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Posted - 2014.03.16 22:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Heavy can clock in at 1400-1800 HP a Logistics clocks in 1000 HP in extreme cases on average 800 HP at max, I don't think it will be a problem...
For the Federation!
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
733
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Posted - 2014.03.16 22:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote: Also I said that a Assault should be buffed not the Logistics merged so what is your problem with the ideology? If you had the same slots as a Logistics you get more tank than them but at least they are not utterly useless in anything but dropping equipping away from battle.
I wasn't stating that they would be merged. I was stating that if you had one Suit that had 90 more EHP and a Sidearm, which you may not use because of fitting restrictions (I don't/can't), or another Suit that had more CPU/PG, faster depleted recharge, and 2 more equipment slots, which would you go for? Sure, the Logistic player does lose a small amount of EHP but gets far more out of it than they lose. Logistics are still better than Assaults at pretty much everything. They shoot the same gun, have similar defense, can throw out lots of equipment for their team, and can hack stuff faster. The Assault does the same shooting, maybe being able to shoot for longer periods of time between each reload/overheat, but does nothing else. That's from a balance perspective.
From an ideological perspective, having the same exact layout for Assault-Logistics is boring and lazy. Every other game that I have played as a FPS that has a Support/Assault has greater variation than that. The Medic in TF2 has one of the lowest HP and has a near useless gun. BF2 (the last one I played) has the medic without a grenade launcher and a bullet-resistant vest compared to the Assault. In DUST, if there they did have the same layout, it would mean zero variation between them other than "No Sidearm = 2 Equipment slots."
At the moment, Assaults are not utterly useless. They still fight, shoot, die, and hack objectives. It is just that Logistics do it better while having two more equipment slots. If the slot layouts were to be reversed, meaning that a Prototype Caldari Logistics was 4 High-3 Low, they would be as "utterly useless" as Assaults are now. They would die faster than Assaults but still be able to kill at the same speed and provide their team with equipment. It would also be a cool thing with the hack bonus. Logistics die easier than Assaults but hack objectives much faster, so more teamwork is needed to get the most out of the benefit rather than the Slayer Logi.
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superjoe360x
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
217
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Posted - 2014.03.16 23:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:stlcarlos989 wrote:I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing...
But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes.
I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb. I never use a sidearm with my assault so it makes no difference to me. Gotta find that cover! True in this build TTK is so short that reload almost never comes up, in 1.8 however less damage and proficiency changes will be a big hit to slayer logis which is why my use of the cal logi will end. Yeah the reason I specced into Amarr logi was the sidearm for being a slayer logi. Its still effective on one on one or against a heavy so I don't have to make that reload. With ttk so short though I don't use it nearly as much as I use to. I also used it for when Im camping ya know what I do sometime. Back when Massdrivers were good id have a gun to actually shoot ppl with if they came up after me. A Freedom and a Six KIn SMG is a deadly combo or was. Anyhow im hoping that 1.8 will make my sidearm more vital again with ttk going back up. 1.7 kinda stole that edge that I had with my sidearm.
Commander, Director of DL and Leader of The SS Elite Squad
*Putting Dust players out of their misery since Jan 2013
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
972
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Posted - 2014.03.16 23:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Running both assaults and logi I can tell you logi can run proto/adv tank and weapon w/ advanced equip0 or proto/adv tank, proto equip, and adv. weaponry. My problem with my assault suits is you can't get proto tank and proto weaponry at the proto level suit. If you could it does do better than the logi as a "slayer" its faster has a sidearm and the HP if both are maximum tanked out wind up being very close to the same. So I'm thinking we should see how the indirect buff to CPU/PG goes and then if its still not enough only a little buff in PG/CPU would do it IMO. Asking for another slot when you can't even effectively fit what we have doesn't do any good.
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3833
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Posted - 2014.03.16 23:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:
So CCP, please tell me why I should stay with my current CalAssault instead of switching to the clearly better 1.8 Slayer Logi?
You should do neither, really. They said they weren't able to alter the fitting and slots of medium frames before 1.8. So, that means the slots and fitting and medium frames will change. You won't get another suit respec when they do it (I bet). So, don't skill into either and wait for them to actually make those changes.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
733
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Posted - 2014.03.16 23:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Running both assaults and logi I can tell you logi can run proto/adv tank and weapon w/ advanced equip0 or proto/adv tank, proto equip, and adv. weaponry. My problem with my assault suits is you can't get proto tank and proto weaponry at the proto level suit. If you could it does do better than the logi as a "slayer" its faster has a sidearm and the HP if both are maximum tanked out wind up being very close to the same. So I'm thinking we should see how the indirect buff to CPU/PG goes and then if its still not enough only a little buff in PG/CPU would do it IMO. Asking for another slot when you can't even effectively fit what we have doesn't do any good.
The CPU/PG bonus is fairly minor. With a Prototype Rail and Prototype Magsec, it saved you 36.25/7.25; enough for an Enhanced Shield Extender. If the slots were switched, there would obviously have to be some kind of increase to the Assault's CPU/PG. What will actually happen is up in the air. I just don't want there to be a clear option when it comes to Logistics vs. Assault. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1880
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Posted - 2014.03.16 23:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:The CPU/PG bonus is fairly minor. With a Prototype Rail and Prototype Magsec, it saved you 36.25/7.25; enough for an Enhanced Shield Extender. It's also worth noting that there are Weapon Operation and Fitting Optimization skills to reduce CPU/PG of weapons, so if you have SP in those skills the suit bonus actually reduces CPU/PG less.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens League of Infamy
733
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Posted - 2014.03.16 23:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:The CPU/PG bonus is fairly minor. With a Prototype Rail and Prototype Magsec, it saved you 36.25/7.25; enough for an Enhanced Shield Extender. It's also worth noting that there are Weapon Operation and Fitting Optimization skills to reduce CPU/PG of weapons, so if you have SP in those skills the suit bonus actually reduces CPU/PG less.
Right. Was just doing quick and dirty. Even without the multiplicative not giving you the extra amount, it is still lackluster. |
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LEHON Xeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
327
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Posted - 2014.03.16 23:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing...
But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes.
I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb.
I agree entirely. That is the majority of the reason I end up dying as well. Kill a couple people and have to reload when someone else comes around the corner or spawns back in and you're dead.
It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
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SAIRAX SIS
Nyain San Renegade Alliance
42
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Posted - 2014.03.17 02:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
All Assaults need 'Regenerating and CPU/PG' buff |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
5170
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Posted - 2014.03.17 02:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
AP Grasshopper wrote:your so silly, I guess 10% ROF means nothing to you. Even after damage mods are nerfed. Hahahahahahahah!
You look so stupid right now
1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole -Title Awarded by True Adamance
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M McManus
432
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Posted - 2014.03.17 02:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
It's crazy that we're still talking about making the assault an actual assault and getting rid of slayer logi.... It only took CCP what 3 months to still **** this up.. |
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